The Vagina Monologues

check this out: http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/71/81366.htm

roohi: will check out the reviews.

motivation for going..i had seen a recording of Eve Ensler`s reading on the Hollywood Channel...and i didn`t really like it. It sounded kind of unnecessary and silly but i kept on watching it because it was just one of those things and i dont like turning in early anyway.

So, when i heard it was being performed in Lahore by local actors, my curiosity got the better of me...i went in a slightly cynical mindset - as i mentioned in my piece. and then watching it performed by women living in lahore, women i see around me all the time, and then hearing local monologues thrown in for good measure - it changed the meaning of the show for me. kind of made it real. the experience of the theatre was much more powerful because the confrontation with those issues was upfront and direct...and i guess the monologues had also kind of evolved by then (and maybe i had too) to include stories that i could relate to. they spoke of pain, anger and discomfort that even i had felt at some point or another...therefore the article came to life.

who i went to the performance with - three other women (two sisters-in-law, and their friend), my nephew and my father. one sister-in-law enjoyed it, cracking a joke about ``i have to answer my vagina`s call`` in the middle of the show. the friend loved it and wished there would be more like this one. they both were glad that i wanted to take up the issue and publish the piece in a local paper. the other sister-in-law flipped giving lectures on sharam and haya and dont-u-dare-print-this-you-will-bring-our-family-shame and tried to convince my mother to brainwash me against this, who by the way, was very proud of me for thinking as i did.

my nephew is 17 and was excited about it before going..later, he felt it wasnt as scandalous as he`d hoped it would be (the sisters-in-law do not include his mother).

my father said that at first he wanted to rush out of the auditorium out of sheer embarrassment. but then, he loved it! he even went up to the actors and offered them phonetics lessons to help them improve the quality of the performance! they accepted. and he openly discussed the show with me on the way home and the day after..and the day after that....and the day after that....

im glad i thought of sharing it on chowk rather than putting it in a paper that would wrap fish in mozang the next day.

thank you.
all of you.
you are wonderful!

stuka: neutral on arguments or neutral between the two of you?
she did say it though ``dont waste your time...its like banging your head against a very thick wall`` if you want the actual text and reply number i`ll have to look it up...but is it worth it?

SOYSAUCE: (i`m using capitals here to differentiate , not to shout...)

in reply #185 saminashah said:
``The powerful perpetrate violence on the powerless. As simple or as complicated as that. In indian societies where goddesses are worshipped and are more powerful than gods, women are still beaten and abused. In lesbian relationships there`s spousal abuse and violence and in my town there`s a counseling service set up by the gay community to support the abused in gay & lesbian partnerships.``

to which you said ``soysauce: Ascribing victimhood to having one type of genitals is absurd.``

to which i replied
``soysauce: who denied that men can also be victims? as a man then, maybe you could multiply that victimization over and over infinite times and maybe you`ll find a little empathy for female pain...``

and then you said:``Khatam-shud,
Are you talking to someone else? I didn`t say anything about men as victims. Please don`t trot out standard arguments with me if you don`t have the patience to read. I think i have not insulted your intelligence. Please return the courtesy. Thank you.``

am i missing something?

i acknowledged your statement..that it is absurd to acribe victimhood to one type of genitals. im no doctor but i think there are basically just two kinds of genitalia- male and female. and since we have been talking about vaginas, i assumed you were refering to the penis. i therefore said that men can also be victims...and tried to take the discussion further. Maybe i should have directly refered to an earlier comment i made to avoid this misunderstanding. women cannot understand male physical pain and vice versa. i was simply trying to create empathy so that you could see saminasha`s point of view. my remark was not meant to be cheeky. nor was i trying to needlessly, blindly impress cookie- cutter arguments upon you. my intention was certainly not to insult your intelligence and i am sorry that you mistook me. and that you think i dont have the patience to read. and that you think me discourteous.

``No, but there is a MINIMUM of textual reading required of a subject before you hold forth on it...like ``feminism``... ``

Is that an Arse braying in the distance?

Oh no. That`s Saminasha pompously pontificating forth as usual.

Oh right. Carry on then.

Any Neutral Chowk interactors:

``Soyasauce: Don`t waste your time man. Tthere are less painful ways of banging your head against a brick wall. ``

Can any neutral Chowk interactors point out where I have copied another interactor`s post in formulating the above sentence?

Plats8: LOL!! That`s what I call genuine ground in reality research.

Stuka,

And as for ``original`` thinking, you might take that advice yourself-you lifted my advice to Khatam Shud word for word in your post to Soy...

Stuka,

No, but there is a MINIMUM of textual reading required of a subject before you hold forth on it...like ``feminism``...so perhaps you ought to can it...

Samina: I didn`t know there was a minimum requirement to read certain texts before interacting.

News flash: There isn`t.

So shut it.

Soyasauce: Don`t waste your time man. Tthere are less painful ways of banging your head against a brick wall.

Got this recently from a friend who was trying to hook up through an
Indian marriage portal. He responded to one of the ads which claimed
that the girl was looking for someone sensitive, who doesn`t take women for
granted (perfectly reasonable parameters, of course) and is not a typical
South Asian male (meaning all the usual things). He sent an e-mail with his
profile and interests and got this (names suppressed, obviously).

``hi .......

Thank you for responding. Yeah, I am doing this for
my friend. My commitment here is limited to initial
screening but those who seem promising I pass on to
her. I know this sounds horrible, as if men are just a mass
to choose from, but works for us:) and that`s what matters.

anyway, how old are you? height? weight ? what are you looking
for? what are your passions?

.....``

Any thoughts, anyone ? By the way, all the correspondents
here are Americans of SA descent.

Soysauce,

On this board various women interactors have posed at least a hundred questions- in trying to look at various aspects of the discourses of women on inequity. The most vocal men on this board have 1. not answered or acknowledged any of these questions, angles, interrelated issues etc. 2. Spent a great deal of time denying that inequity exists for women having these discourses. So when you talk about ``subcultures`` having discourses and yet deny them linkages or commonalities of themes- I have a hard time finding the consistancies in your argument.

You stated that powerlessness is not defined by gender. Now, my question is then, HOW is powerlessness conferred? The abusive lesbian relationship is one example. What kinds of abuse can take place in a relationship? Economic dependency? Physical violence? Spiritual Abuse? Please be clear when you are making an argument.

Stuka,

Which means of course, none. And yet you continue to yap.

Ahmed Madani: Going a bit off topic here..

``It is credit of most rulers of this country this damaging left wing political parties had suppressed throughly unlike india where communists and socialists are too powerful and are damaging indian people.) ``

Very true. Very true. Pakistan has done much better job of standing up to organized labor mafia. I am also in hotel business in America and unions are big problems in Nnew York, Boston etc. and they are mostly very militant. There is some lobbying going on for ``right to work`` states like Florida where an employer has the right to terminate employment at will just as as employee has the right to terminate his work as well.

khatam-shud #210

``plats8: ok! that was my bad...i guess it became a little difficult for a while to keep track of who said what....sorry to have attacked you on a weak, not a last, straw. being misunderstood doesnt feel so good, right? seriously...not being cheeky! ``

I suppose my ego is robust enough to handle being misunderstood on chowk -
was just wondering what the context was.

Time to sign off of this thread anyway; a bit too much self-indulgence on display.

Samina: The last thing I need to do is to answer to some self righteous twit who may have read a hazaar books but has not had an original thought in her life. Instead of interacting why don`t you simply post a reading list. It will suffice just as well.

Khatam-shud,
Are you talking to someone else? I didn`t say anything about men as victims. Please don`t trot out standard arguments with me if you don`t have the patience to read. I think i have not insulted your intelligence. Please return the courtesy. Thank you.

Saminashah,
How do you figure a certain type of genitals lead to powerlessness?
Why is there domestic violence within lesbian relationships?
For what it`s worth, in traditional hindu thinking a woman, during her period, has enormous power - of the wrong kind. Hence she is not to come in contact with most things for 3 days. Like i said, it`s a complicated matter and reducing it to women are powerless because men think vaginas are dirty is totally missing the point. I see a lot of allusions here to hip-hop which projects perhaps what the thinking is in a tiny segment of a tiny subculture. In the larger scheme of things it`s completely irrelvant.