The Vagina Monologues

Well, well, well. All of a sudden, Chowk is not only allowing bad words (I remember the days when I had to type in `bullsh!t` or the post would get rejected) but is highlighting the bad word in yellow. That seems to be a liberation of Chowk editors on a par with what VM is expected to bring women.

That being the case, despite the feminists (mind you, I sympathize with them) on Chowk, let me pose this question:

Q: What is the difference between a clever midget and a female jogger?

A: The clever midget is a cunning runt.

Now, was that as liberating as VM?

Khatam-shud #200,

Can I blame you for assuming I was making fun of feminist movements, when I
don`t remember doing any such thing in this thread ? I don`t know - you tell me.

What exactly did I say to make you go on the defensive ?

#189 by stuka on July 31, 2003 11:28am PT

yes that is the limit of our ``modernist`` womens liberation for south asian women ie Gabfest.

Stuka - ``Waisey, are you still in Boston?`` - Actually Metrowest of Boston in boring suburbia. Now I only get into Boston to do things like take the kids to the aquarium, or do the swan boats and stuff (don`t suppose you read ``Make way for the ducklings`` !!) - might take them to the India Day concert at the Hatch Shell next month ... that MIT Bhangra team is real good, and so are the Bombay Club samosas !!

BTW ... why exactly do you know anything about making airplanes paranthas ...? not that it`s ANY of my business ! but good for you anyway!

My sister & her husband are good friends of Amir and your cousin actually - she met him during the ``My Fair Lady`` production, and her hubby and Amir go way back ... never ever heard them describe him as ``cool`` though :-)!!!

stuka: is all this criticism then simply just knee-jerk resistance? why assume, in the first place, that any woman writing about female emancipation is necessarily a feminist? why cant it be about cringing at newspaper pieces that ridiculously disguise murders as accidental burnings and rape as but-she-was-asking-for-it?
yes, i went to cornell. not many ppl register cornell when one says ithaca...r u familiar with the town?

plats8: can you blame me?

Khatum-shud

The interacters who are based in US and expressing their views on VM in Pakistan are invariably speaking from a different perspective; and in my opinion out of context.

They are going into the finer elements of feminist movement and so on.

VM in Pakistan is meant to achieve the very basic something that is taken for granted in the Western World - a woman`s right to speak.

A VM in Kandhar would be even a greater earthshaking event - associating vegina with woman in the open.

So each event has to be assessed in its own environment - there are no standard assumptions on the VM utlity.

Thanks for writing on the subject and making a delibrate effort to satisfy each interacter.

#167 by faisaluno on July 30, 2003 6:48pm PT

Now brooks is an expert on role of women in Islam!!! LOL

Islams focus on moderating sexuality has to do not with not liking sex or suppresssing women on promoting the value of family.
I can testify that most men who would see semi-naked women on stage would not be thinking about family.
If the break down in family is the west is not adequate proof about its incapability of its social laws and mores to promote family as a unit of socitey then what can be said about your capability to make any independent asssesment.
Despite the abdundant availabilty of sex for both women as well as men voilence against women has not reduced only changed form you call it liberation I call it stupidity.

Khatam-shud #193

``more generally, why cant a woman talk about womens problems without the feminist label? i dont like that label because it invariable implies hatred for men - and i certainly dont hate them...``

and

``oh...and i have a little story i did on a spice seller...i was wondering if youd like to take a look and tell me about its ridiculous feminist undertones... ``

I said that VM could `perhaps` have some feminist undertones. I have not seen the play, and was going entirely by various reviews in the public domain, and the discussion here. It wasn`t meant to be the least bit disparaging. Also, I do not remember calling feminism ridiculous.

Perhaps you`re being needlessly defensive here.

Khtam-shud:

``why cant a woman talk about womens problems without the feminist label?``

oh they certainly can.

``i dont like that label because it invariable implies hatred for men - ``

Exactly. It implies the same to men as well. Therefore the knee jerk resistance to ``feminist`` agendas.

KS: Did you go to Cornell?

Stuka #191/192

Used to be in the area - College Park, actually, till about 2 years ago. Changed coasts after that. Miss that area quite a bit, although Prince George`s county did have it`s own charmlessness.

I think this is a fairly accurate assessment of Food Factory. Give them a call beforehand to see if they have made biriyani that day (it`s made on random, non-sequential days). I`d suggest staying away from the sabzis in general, though.

roohi: will look it up.

stuka: as far as the experience with the VM goes, they are about women learning to accept their bodies as beautiful, rather than as unclean. please refer to when i say
`` One Eve banished us from Heaven. Another is helping us discover the heaven within ourselves. One Eve is blamed in Western theology for initiating sin and instilling self-loathing in her daughters. Another is shaking us, awakening realizations of how misplaced this self-loathing is. One Eve banished us from Heaven. Another is helping us reclaim our lost Eden.``
to this extent it really doesnt matter what men think. i mentioned before that as a woman, ill probably never understand what it means to get kicked in the groin - and as a man you may never be able to relate to the issues that the VM`s touch - and i think you had no disagreements whatsoever about that. Im surprised then, that it took you a while to spell it out for yourself the way you did. but that you did ultimately understand is good.

However, we cant think about things like these in a vaccum - and the reason we cant do that is this: the VM`s matter because violence against women matters. their objective is to help women love themselves as a means to embracing their freedom and equality (sexual repression is limiting...maybe you`d like to debate that as well?). but the reason we need them is because men carry out violations all the time - and they are helped by women in the process.

and plats8: i dont think your thoughts on this are irrelevant...nor those of any man. because if this is to matter in the end, then you cant leave men out of the equation. but first, women need to understand that it is about them. then only may some sort of paradigm shift occur, which would affect the status quo between men and women.
and i dont understand why social change becomes an impossibility if the basic problem - female self-loathing - can begin to resolve itself through something like this. before you rush to conlusions again, i have specifically stated ``can `begin` to resolve themselves`` and not ``can magically disappear``

more generally, why cant a woman talk about womens problems without the feminist label? i dont like that label because it invariable implies hatred for men - and i certainly dont hate them...

saminasha: any references i can look up on the definition of aesthetic beauty in literature? I carried out a detailed study on perceptions of beauty in south asia focusing on why gorapan is the main criteria for beauty in southasian women, with literature as the means of dissemination of this idea...and id like to take a look at whatever else i can find on the subject.

and plats8 and stuka again: if you wanna talk food ...if youre ever in ithaca, ny, theres a little place there called the chariot which makes wonderful downright-melt-in-the-mouth corn nuggets. no oil and butter...promise.

oh...and i have a little story i did on a spice seller...i was wondering if youd like to take a look and tell me about its ridiculous feminist undertones...

plats8:

Will do. I live in NW DC so it should not be far. Are you in DC as well?

plats8:

Did a google search:

Food Factory (8145G Baltimore Avenue in the Campus Village shopping center, 345-8888), a new favorite, is the focus of this issue`s column. Don`t let the fast-foodish name fool you; this restaurant serves good, expensive food, but it certainly is not a factory. The food is heavily influenced by Pakistani culinary traditions, and there are also traces of Afghanistan, India, Iran, and Turkey. The customers provide authentication; most of them are from these countries. The restaurant is not elegant looking, but its simplicity is tasteful. The audio system plays the lovely popular music of Pakistan.

A brief survey of students revealed that all Pakistani respondents knew about the restaurant but no other student was familiar with it.

Wais Latif and wife Sabeeha are in charge, and they often oversee the food preparation seven days a week. Perhaps the most popular items are the kebob dishes, which are cooked on hickory charcoal and served spicy or mild by request. The chicken, ground beef, and lamb kebobs range in price from $4.75 to $5.95. Chicken Jalfarizi ($5.95) is served on Mondays, Thursdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. This is a delicious and lovely-looking combination of small pieces of chicken breast, green and red bell peppers, spring onions, and lemons. Haleem ($4.95) is offered on weekends; this is a mixture of beef, rice, lentils (dal), wheat, and a variety of spices. The thick sauce is a special pleasure. I`ve also thoroughly enjoyed three of the restaurant`s vegetable dishes: sabzi ($4.50), a mixture of spinach, potatoes, and spices; chic peas ($3.75) in a tantalizing sauce; and a vegetable combination ($4.95, no exotic name provided) of califlower, eggplant, potatoes, squash, red and green peppers, tomatoes, and sauces.

The Food Factory`s meat dishes are Halal. Most main dishes are served with with tandoori bread (nan), or basmati rice, home-made yogurt, and a simple tomato-lettuce-onion salad. Pakistani and Indian sweets are available for desert. There`s a small Pakistani-Indian grocery store at the back of the restaurant. Be sure to bring some cash; the restaurant does not accept credit cards or checks.

Stuka #189

Now that this is settled, let`s talk food. Since you mention having moved to the DC
area, make a trip to College Park sometime (shouldn`t take more than 25 minutes on
the beltway from Georgetown). There is a Pakistani restaurant called Food Factory
there (right across U.Md on Route 1) which used to make nearly sublime kebab and biriyani. Not an upscale place at all, but the food used to be very good (modulo the Nihari, which is mediocre).

plats8:

``It is in essence women discussing their sexuality with other women, with perhaps some feminist undertones. Men are, by and large, irrelevant here. ``

Yeah, I did get that almost by accidental deduction. Then the author confirmed it.