The Vagina Monologues

Khadija

Delighted to see a review of an excellent play here. Welcome to Chowk!

S

I had seen Vagina Monologues in the states... I never imagined they would come to Pakistan but they did... and Ayesha Alam, Nadia Jameel, Mira Hashmi (Faiz`s grand
daughter) and others were AWESOME...

It is time the brave women of Pakistan shunned the oppressive hold of their captors... the men of this country, and became more confident about themselves, and their sexuality. This is exactly what those four amazing women did on stage...

I think it was a great idea for this show to have happened when Pakistan is also celebrating the year of Fatima Jinnah, that indomitable woman, who took on a Dictator for the cause of democracy and according to recent revelations was brutally murdered for it...

Perhaps now we should dedicate this century to Pakistani Women, because I have a lot of faith that they would be our saviors as Pakistan rises to new heights and glories...

Pakistani aurtein Zindabad!


-Manto

For those of you who saw `Rock star and the mullahs` on PBS... Please sign this petition of support ...

http://www.petitiononline.com/sa4l786/

Thankyou

-Manto

I thought liberation of women in Pakistan had to do with building girl`s schools in villages. Getting poor young women out of the influence of panchayats and such. And motivating rich women to use the opportunities they have been given to get to influential positions.

How exactly does the Vagina Monologues fit into that? Doesn`t the audience, and the women presenting it, and the text of the play itself, belong to a group, that is already powerful in our society. What is gained by making them more powerful, when most women in Pakistan cannot even get the opportunity to read Urdu, much less, understand something like the Vagina Monlogues.

I ask this, seriously, as someone who will be participating in a project for girl students in Pakistan. Should I send my hard earned money to poor city girls, who cannot afford furthur education? Or should I buy tickets for them to see the Vagina Monologues?

Pakistan needs the liberation of its poor, specially its poor women. Not its rich, nor rich women. There is nothing wrong with things like the Monologues. But poor(er) societies need to solve their basic problems first, before getting to things like V Monologues. Otherwise they are putting the cart before the horse, i.e. liberating the already liberated. This is better than doing nothing. But perhaps, not the best way to reach women`s lib in our society.

Then again, as someone who believes men should never do the talking for the women, about how they want to be liberated, I will ask the girls who may be about to get a free education, what they consider more important - the V Monologues or the chance to study how to cure vaginal diseases at a Medical College. Our organization (nor Pakistan in general) doesn`t have the resources to provide them with both.

Any attempt at art by women in Pakistan should be appreciated. But I will have to disagree with notion of presenting the Vagina Monlogues as some sort of, ``criteria of liberation`` for Pakistani women. I don`t think it empowers women. It only does so superficially. And that too, only women who are already empowered.

Then again, maybe, I am missing the point.

``Moved almost to tears, I realized that putting something like this “out there” was not something that was too advanced for our still young, though just a little jaded, women’s movement. In fact it was not advanced for any women’s movement anywhere in the world. It was, on the contrary, very essential to any conversation about women’s rights because in the final analysis women’s rights are not about political equality......``

Khadija, let me complete that sentence for you in pakistan, `` it is not about political equality, it is about the right for women to be treated as humans, the right to live``.

Khadija I am happy to know that as an elite of pakistan, you have tears..even to shed it while watching a play.

Here is a news for you, have you heard of honor killings, have you heard of saima salwar and her killings, do you know that no one was prosecuted, do you know that the first act of the mushy was to assure the killer that he will not be prosecuted......did you hear of that story, did you shed a tear for saima...

Tears for vagina monologues...you have set new lows in disgusting writing from pak women.

I am enraged by title and general tone of attitude. I have not cared to read article. This open invitations for troubles. Now you know why people Love MMA and not so called NGO crowds.
Up to know men were shameless now women are becoming very bad , immoral and charactrerless. The writer should be ashamed of this writing article.

It has all become liberal and god damn people are doing whatever they want.
We are becoming soft ininrerational help. This is reason young and old Pathans are destroying eyes by enjoying ponography in dim lit, unventilasted areas. This liberal should be shipped to arabis where wahabi ruler will chopp of heads for for this problems.

Romair,

Revolutions sometimes are started by the few and then it permeates through the society. The V-monologue performance was an exclusive one to limited people, but it is important in that it has set a trend..

The question is not just of women`s lib, and women`s empowerment, but of the freedom of expression... how can you not celebrate that important ideal which is so often suppressed in a country like ours? The first myth is that women who are rich are already empowered.. that is not always true... and don`t rich women have the right to be liberated as well...

Your organization should send money for girls` schools, and leave things like V-monologue to the art-minded crowd at NCA .... ok? They are doing a good job... just don`t try to hinder them in anyway ok?

-Manto

Ref jay #6

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Brother Jay.

You really should know better than to jump on the author for writing about equality for women.

You had the wonderful opportunity to point out how in your native Kerala women rule the homes in the Nair community, how property and familial descent have been entirely matrilineal for centuries, and how Marco Polo describes that during as early (or late, depending on your viewpoint) as the days of his visit to the Malabar coast Nair women were free to take on lovers, the sword stuck in the sand in front of the house indicating the woman in the hut was unavailable for social visits.

Perhaps that also explains the primarily benign Islam of Kerala.

``There are structures in this city that celebrate the male form; structures that declare male power. Military structures that shout out their masculinity - that celebrate the phallus. National symbols that kiss the sky in their entire erect splendor. There is no structure for its’ female counterpart. There is no structure that celebrates the vagina or that celebrates women and womanhood. And it saddens me that while these will stay, this one effort at salvaging female space will fade away.``

Yes, there are. A couple of hangars at the Moffett Naval Air Station near Sunnyvale, California.

No, I don`t have a dirty mind. The local newspaper once described them as ``yonic`` in their appearance.

Maybe I should send in a picture!

Jay,

Thanks for proving my point about you. :)


Romair, Ahmed Madani,

Yaar give it a rest... the play is awesome.. the message is really moving.. there is also this poem dedicated to a Bosnian muslim girl... anyway... don`t criticize something before you`ve seen it being performed...

-Manto

i do feel for our compatriot ahmadmadani. i mean here he was fretting about the prospect of his daughters wearing makeup (read his bio) when along comes this. enough to drive anyone into the arms of likes of urstruly. and another thing, what is wrong with having a little haya? why cant stuff like this be done in a less in-your-face kind of way. and instead of looking westward all the time, why cant we look to the east for inspiration once in a while. chinese women for instance were discouraged from having more than one child. can there be a bigger violation of fundamental rights? yet when was the last time anyone came across a chinese feminist? and wait until western media picks on this. nasty things are really going to hit the fan then.

Khadija:

welcome to chowk...the struggle for parity is an uphill journey...the women will need every ounce of luck and help in this endeavour...more later...

ahmedmadani

...from your down to earth interacting here we know a little about you...your views, age, color, height, your daughters, life with wife, your work, your status etc....

...therefore, i wish there was a way you would go to this play and thenwrite us your views...i would really like to read your views on this play...

...you do not appear to be the obstinate kind...if you are reluctant for reasons such as shyness or discomfort i can ask some very dear friends (man or woman) to escort you to the play....

...t

[There is no structure that celebrates the vagina or that celebrates women and womanhood.]

.....muslims have been celeberating both manhood and womanhood from the earliest days of islam. check out the minarets and the domes of a mosque and you would know what i am talking about.....meera ji and n.m.rashid have been singing their praises in their famous poems...... classical urdu poets died expressing newer methods of describing female parts from aankh to abru to hont to pistaan....so don`t be an ingrate ;)

Those of you who condemn my article for its title, (hi ahmedmadani, ``72 inch tall,handsome born, white colored on 11Feb.1948 in Karachi.I keep myself arrtractive by exercizeing and eating good less food. My wife is big disappointment to me. She troubles and I bear trouble like mountain. But one gets chained by children though they feel I am born to serve them``), think twice about my chowk alias. And please read it before banishing me to ``arabis where wahabi ruler will chopp of heads for for this problems``. It`s certainly more meaningful than your favorite ``girl friday``.

and Romair: yes, we should think about getting girls a basic education before we proceed to talk about sex, but the vagina monologues are not about sex. They are about letting women live their lives. Live them without second thoughts - the way men get to live theirs. We need sexual equality if we are to ever successfully educate every girl - urbanite or rural-dweller - in our country. You see, girls are neglected because they are considered inferior - remove the inferior status and you will not need to fight for their right to education. and Jay, as far as my awareness of honor killings goes - im not blind to it - but the fact remains that honor killings are a by-product of the notion that women are sexually inferior to men. A by-product of the notion that its ok for men to take multiple sexual partners but not ok for women to even as much as look at other men. Remove the disparity and you remove the premise of shame on which honor killings are justified.

And one point of clarification - what drove me to tears were women`s stories of rape - of sexual brutality. And it is the vocalization of this rape and brutuality that makes the vagina monologues so relevant- so essential to the emancipation of women anywhere in the world. I speak of fundamentals required to take women and place them in lives where they can live without suppressed hopes and dreams. Where fear does not hang like an ominous, ever-present sword over their heads. The sword being a lot sharper - a lot more menacing in places like ``arabis where wahabi ruler will chopp of heads`` .

Khadija,

A little more analysis is required.

Equality will manifest itself. But apparently it has not.
So (in your opinion) what exactly is `equal` in man and women?...and what is not?

thx,

It is sad that women shamelessly talking in detail about their vaginas in public is considered liberating by some deluded individuals! How?

This is a case of a certain group of people swallowing willingly anything no matter how depraved as long as it comes recommended by the West. It is somehow seen as progress.

These VM have been going on in England for a few years now and now this sickness has spread to Pakistan. What has happened to sharm and hayaa?

I have read and heard great reviews of this play from some of my friends. The Pakistani friend was on another planet after watching this play in California. In NY City, Mayor Rudy Giuliani`s ex-wife participated in this play while they were still married. I think after the play went live the marriage started having some cracks. Now they are completely separated and divorced, if I am not wrong. This is also very strange that when men find out who and what their wives truly are and what they believe in then the relationships do not last that long. Women still stick to men`s orginal picture. Whatever. Gender trends and traits or weaknesses!

Khadija: I have heard that it`s a very intense and moving play. I will probably watch it after another 7-10 years. I am not at that stage of my life to watch something of this intensity. Watching Frida was an extremely jolting experience for me and I was found shedding tears many times during the movie that I promised never to buy the book that I am so drawn toward.

Could you please tell where is it playing in Pakistan ?

Romair:

My sincere suggestion to you would be to divide your attention equally between the play as well as the school. I hope my recommend will serve as a win-win solution!

You are completely wrong in your rationally put forth assertion ``liberating the already liberated.`` In each society people grow and move forward at a completely different pace. You cannot make those who are 10 steps ahead to go back 20 steps in order to catch up with the slow ones. You are also not forced to ask those who are in lower trenches to catch up with the ones watching Vagina Monologues. They need to find their balance themselves.

When Ms. Durrani can write her aa`p beeti and nation happened to read and enjoyed the spicy stuff, why not let women who want to share the monologues spell them out per their wish ?

Khadija,

Thank you for a well written, thought provoking and honest piece. I remember my responses to some of the pieces of the VM in film version...esp. the interviews with everyday women and the ways in which they perceived and experienced their own bodies. There was one woman who had completely disassociated and disavowed her body-and her narrative was quite moving. I also thought the piece in which Eve Ensler repeats the word cunt over and over was particularly brilliant in a Irigaray way. And I was a bit uncomfortable with the piece in the beg...but by the end I was bowled over...

Zahra,

The VMs were shown on PBS in a film/doc version. Perhaps you can log onto the PBS website and find it.

``What has happened to sharm and hayaa?``(Naqshbandi)

exactly -- `` What has happened to (your) sharm and hayaa?`` -- how could a prude like YOU used the V vord in your post? -- may I ask:-).....

``It is sad that women shamelessly talking in detail about their vaginas in public is considered liberating by some deluded individuals! How? This is a case of a certain group of people swallowing willingly anything no matter how depraved as long as it comes recommended by the West.``

But Vaginas were not invented in the West. Surely Eastern women have Vaginas, which in my opinion is a good thing. But also this is not the dinner table conversation one would expect. ``How is the food? Nice weather isnt it? And your vagina? How is that doing today?`` It doesnt flow. There is a surprise word here , something that stands out and may cause embarressment.

it was the politest direct word i could think of--after all, it is the anatomic word. I could have said sharmgaa --the polite urdu word for it. but whatever you call it the point remains that surely talking about this in public is not what any decent woman would do! we all know that women have them but there is no need to talk about it in this way--AS IF it is liberating! That I really don`t get how talking about the female organ of reproduction is somehow connected to women`s lib!

Our mothers and grandmothers` generation wouldn`t even dream about using such language...

What next? The Penis Monologues?!

If you translate either of these into Urdu it suddenly feels so much more disgusting...

hey ironman.....i already said ...the aim is sexual equality...take care of that and the rest falls into place itself.

please tell me what kind of detailed analysis you would like...ill take it from there

Khadija

P.S. I dont like the label of ``feminist``. Im not one. Im just a person who feels that people everywhere, men and women, deserve better lives than they`re living.

Naqshbandi Sahib,

Apparently you have a problem with women in public discourse-whether it be Shazia Mirza or Eve Ensler. We know how you feel. Now let us get on with our conversation please.

I`d feel just as strongly against it if it was a bunch of male actors on stage talking in such detail and manners about their organs too. Its not about whether its women or men, rather the subject matter and whether such discourse is acceptable in a society such as ours; it certainly doesn`t reflect our culture at all.

**
Do you think the average pakistani woman would feel more empowered by taking part in such a show or watching it? They would probably be the one`s to cringe the most and call the performers all sorts of names! (if they could understand it --say if it was translated into Urdu/Punjabi/Sindhi/Pashto).
***

Sorry if I am labouring a point but I think this highlights a problem with the feminist movement in pakistan in general: they seem to equate westernisation of pakistan women or the adoption of western morals and mores and ethics with liberation and equality and freedom for women in pakistan. You can`t promote a totally alien ethic on a traditionally conservative society and expect to `liberate` them whatever that means. If you want to improve the situation of pakistani women then I really believe the foremost thing needed is to promote education in women--both deeni and duniyavi. most of our women don`t even know the rights islam gives them. Teaching them so they do know their God-given rights will do far more to produce more free women than making them listen to the Vagina Monologues or whatever!

***

I tell you something: the most independent women I have met in my life have been those Muslim women who are educated about Islam and who know and insist upon their rights.

I strongly feel that women ought to pay attention to their health and well being as part of their ever evolving sense of equality. Just wanted to share the following that I came across:

The best checkup for women of every age (For some men on this ezine, parental discretion is advised before clicking on the link below. )

http://women.msn.com/a458097.armx

Kind Regards.

Not at all Saima. All I am saying is that such performances should not be considered hallmarks of ``female emancipation`` and liberation. There are many other, and better, ways to do that. Being modernised and forward thinking is one thing, being crass and crude is another altogether. Unfortunately, some people get the two confused on Chowk it seems...

If you want to go to the theatre to hear women talking in detail about their nether regions do so by all means, but please don`t think that this is a great step forward to giving the women of pakistan --or elsewhere--`liberation`. How does this encourage women to be
respected and treated with respect?
***

Samina,

Documentary is something very different from watching a live play. As far as I remember, when Rudy G`s wife was getting her popularity from acting in this play, some excerpts were shown on TV. It`s been a while ago, but my supposedly very conservative friend watched it live with other friends as part of a women`s night out and had mixed feelings and observations.


On another note: The very message the writer is conveying has a point; but I hate to say that it was not very well conveyed. Someone who does not know the theme behind the play can easily misconstrue this piece. She is jumping into a subject thinking that her audience on Chowk is very well aware of the monologues and their ins and outs. Also, as if people look into this subject day in and day out in Newsweek, Times, Herald, or Dawn...
There should have been some intro provided before delving into the myths and agreeing or disagreeing with what she saw and heard. Just an observation!

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

I think if the VM donates its profits to women causes, then that act would be a step in the liberation of women. The play itself, is just a play. Much like presenting Hamlet in Lahore is neither here nor there, in liberation of women (or men), neither is this. People should just critique it as a play.

Presenting it as a big step in the liberation of women is, I think, taking away from women who actually are liberating women through building schools, fighting court cases, giving donations etc. They are the ones who should get the press, under the title of liberators. This should get the press under the title of entertainment and movies, etc.

I think, something like Vagina Monlogues, would create more space for women to perform more plays. Just like fashion shows create more space for women. But, just like fashion shows don`t liberate Pakistani women, neither does this. Neither here, nor there, is my opinion. So I have to disagree with the author`s style of presenting it as a part of the, ``female emancipation movement.`` It should have just been presented as a write-up of a play.

I suppose the best test would be to translate it into Punjabi, Pushto, Baluchi etc. and present it to the women who actually need to be liberated in Pakistan. And get their opinion on it. If they say, it is what they need to be liberated, then one would have to take their word for it.

http://www.vaginamonologues.com/index.html

THIS represents liberation of women?!

According to this site above the show contains amongst other things...`16 moans`! Masha Allah! Pakistani mastooraat yeh sun kar bahut khush aur aazaad ho jaayeingee! Kitni tarraqqiiyaafta hain yeh auratein! Kya tarraqqi kar lee hai inhooN ne: sar -e baazaar apni sharamgaoN ki namood o namaaish karaa rahi hain!! La hawla wa la quwwata...

``Gar khaneh kas ast, yek harf bas ast``

``it was the politest direct word i could think of--after all, it is the anatomic word.``(Naqshbandi)

indeed -- indeed it is just a ``polite`` ``anatomic word`` for you mr. holier than thou Naqshi mian -- no harm done --

only question: if it is indeed a polite word for you -- a man -- why shouldn`t it ALSO be a polite anatomic word for the women, as well -- afterall it`s theirs 100% ........

think about it :-)

Khadija

Anything that sounds like freedom and courage for women, in this highly perplexed, complexed and confused society like Pakistan, I am all for it. Each action and each step means something towards shaking off the bondage.

Thanks.

As for the language, has any one heard on Juma prayer the Maulvi`s sing-song style the moment he begins talking about zinna, sharam gah, aezai tunasil, ikhtalat, and so on. He is so full-throated and copious as if in the actual act.

Khadija,

So you meant only `sexual equality`. I was meaning `equality` more generally.

Well, words can certainly confuse. I had to re-read the article to understand what you mean by `sexual equality`.

If I understand correctly, you simply mean women should respect their bodies and stop demeaning and hating themselves for their lot (bodily speaking). Agreed...though `sexual equality` is probably not the suitable phrase I think.

Men are nowhere as penis conscious as women are vagina conscious. Thats the way nature thought it fit.

Since childhood, we men mostly think of the penis as helpful in controlling `line and length` in the delivery! Nothing much more.

So again...is it ever possible that women would think of their private parts (ok, bodies) as casually as men do? And will that really result in...`everything follows from there` ?? Doubtful.

- - - - - - -

As an aside:

Till about 5 years ago, I was the typical male ignoramus regarding women`s bodies. A bit
of extra flesh on the chest and a hole v/s pole is what I thought (crude!).

Then I happenned to watch a 2-hour Discovery channel program about pregnancy and how it alters the women`s body...and that just blew me away. (If I was Naqshbandi, I would have recited a couple of couplets about the glory of God right there!)

We`re a whole lot different than we imagine.
Somehow `sexual equality` doesn`t seem to make sense.


thx,

Naqshbandi:

Kindly take some relaxant. If there is also something out there in bio-sciences for hypocrites please look into it seriously.

Kind Regards.


Note: As a female reader, I do not find anything crude or crass in this write-up. I did find something that I cared to share in my previous post. That`s it.

VM is a beautiful play--it makes the heart soar--the heavy burden of being a woman who constantly has to hide, protect and deny who or what she is, is lifted for a brief 2 hour time period. One catches a fleeting glimpse of what it would be like to be proud of being a woman, the same pride that a man carries with himself wherever he goes. What would it be like to exchange the sense of embarrassment at having this body vs. a sense of pride and joy in being a woman. VM took out a huge issue out of the closet. It gave the possibility of a world that gives equal respect to both sexes and is equally accepting of each genders sexuality. For many of the men interacting here, it seems that for a woman to have sexual desire is almost contemptuous, a woman coming on to a man is denigrated and appartently loses respect. So much so that the most ordinary things can be misconstrued by pompous, aggrandizing men to be come-ons.

To all those who think that Vagina`s are dirty and not suitable to be discussed in public settings--and there are many among us--swear words like behen chod, chutiya, mother fucker-are an indication of what we think about women`s bodies--used quite often in public settings and private. First answer why are a woman`s body parts are described with such contempt. Also, answer the question: IF vaginas shouldnt be discussed either in public or in private, when and how should society deal with them? unlike men who brag about sexuality in school in colleges, society teaches women to NEVER ever to admit desire or pain. A woman`s duty is to give in, but never enjoy or expect enjoyment, but not every woman wants to be a plastic doll, living on the scraps of acceptance thrown out by the men in her life. Some women want more out of life. VM opens a new world for those people, who think there might be a better way to deal with female sexuality.

Khatam-shud $13

``And one point of clarification - what drove me to tears were women`s stories of rape - of sexual brutality. And it is the vocalization of this rape and brutuality that makes the vagina monologues so relevant- so essential to the emancipation of women anywhere in the world. ``

What a load of tosh! In Pakistan`s sexually repressed climate it is YOUNG MEN, not women, that end up being the biggest victims of sexual brutality. You should be crying for them. But that just ain`t fashionable with your femi-nazi friends in London and New York, is it? So let`s just sweep the REAL suffering under the carpet and pretend to be the lil victims. It`s so much fun and makes us feel so important.


These women who are demanding emancipation are precisely those women whose father`s corruption allows them to live the good life and to take mulitple lovers of either sex and of any race, religion or caste. The most corrupt and the most degenerate section of Pakistani society wants `emancipation`. I`ve heard it all now! How much more emancipation do they want?? The right to bestiality??

This isn`t about the vocalization of brutality or about emancipation, it`s nothing but an excercise in self-indulgence and pretentiousness.

Khadija,

Interesting write-up. You`re right in that the female body is the first to feel any tension that arises within our society. Victories are regularly counted in its terms, wars scored in its ravaging. Even in times of peace, women`s bodies are used as currency; pay a visit to the local newsvendor and count all the magazines and supplements that use women on their covers, and within the sheets, to promote sales. What surprises is that a lot of the time, the editors of these publications are women themselves. Could it be then that it`s not all a gender thing (men vs women) but a pervasive mentality that has both its adherents, who may be mostly, though not exclusively, men, and its opponents?

With a play like this, I think it`s important to go see it yourself before you make up your mind. It`s all very well to be shocked, or impressed, with women saying words like cunt and clitoris and the like in public but what need does that serve really? Does it begin to dissect at the prejudice inherent in this and other societies towards women, prejudice that has become internalised and taken root in the language or is it merely some attention-seeking behaviour out to make a buck?

Would you know if the play is coming to Karachi?

First of all.....Ansari, THANK YOU for understanding the point i was trying to make. About your questions...first of all...and i have clarified this before....no im not a feminist...i dont like the generalisations that come with the label....im just someone who thinks that people everywhere, regardless of gender, deserve better lives - even the ones living in the lap of apparent luxury....but that is a separate issue....

About the fact that women push women into compromising situations. Yes, that is one of my contentions.... ``first we must free ourselves from our own chains. Our own, and those shackled on us by other women. And we must free ourselves from the chains of those women who help propagate our self-hatred.`` Women - older women, conventional women, traditional women have long been the keepers of a system that runs on bigotry. I realize that there are men who understand female plight and move and shake to do something about it (such as participate in national programs to educate the girl-child, as has been much emphasized by one chowk member in his replies to my article) - im no man-hater - and i agree with you. It is a pervasive mentality and the patriarchal system is based on this mentality. I could go on for pages.......

Yes, one must see something like this to make up ones mind.
And a clarification....i did not appreciate the vagina monologues for the ``shock-value`` that they contained but for their honesty. Yes, it is a very in-your-face performance, but if it wasnt i wouldnt have 816 hits in less than 24 hours. And this particular fundamental which needs to be dealt with before women can live any sort of free life would again have gone unnoticed. You need shock value sometimes to wake people up.

The need to say cunt and clitoris is the same as it was when negroes embraced the word negro and absolved it of all negative connotation. It has cathartic value.

and you hit the nail on the head when you say that the prejudice has taken root in language. Thats precisely why you need to say cunt and clitoris. So that you root the prejudice out of the word and rid language of its bigotry.

``This liberal should be shipped to arabis where wahabi ruler will chopp of heads for for this problems. ``

:-) Ahmad Madani Zindabad!! Vote for Ahmad Madani!!

A woman no matter where has a very small window of opportunity in which to attach herself to a male. Those who cannot, spend the rest of their lives contemplating what might have been. A majority of contemporary literature, theatre, art, drama, movies etc. is predicated on the premise that a woman does not need a man to feel empowered. Trillions spent on Atkins,mascara and Gucci tell another story. Economic emancipation has led to a need for statisfying other needs.

The Vagina Monologues is an uncomfortable experience in a western setting and I can very well imagine the discomfort of Pakistani audiences. The NGO brigade will obviously portray it as some sort of a revolution but in the grand scheme of things, it`s just another evening spent by the elite convincing itself that it is at par with the rest of the world. It is. But not in the way it imagines it.

later
-sac

well written, but don`t know if the occasion itself justifies such rhetoric. bravo to the four for acting well from what i hear, couple of things...

would have been more interesting if it was a mix of people in the audience, if it was by invite only i`m not sure that would be the case, which begs the question...is this not preaching to the converted?

second, a lot of pakistani`s use various terms for vagina quite freely in their ordinary day to day speech.

third, classical dance performances, literature etc often deals with similar themes, to present the VM as the first of its kind is not fair to other, earlier efforts.

fourth, do write more on other things that move you

Khadija,

I read with tears that in fact you cried listening to the stories of rape as portrayed in Vagina monologues. That is really sad. Next time when you go for a play and wants to cry, may be at the next vagina show, print the message below, and use that paper to wipe your copious tears. It is from an article by Cowasjee and relates to honor killings. Wish you happy cryings.

If this is not a moment when you are the most ashamed, life is a punishment and death a liberation.

``In 1998, 286 such killings were reported in Punjab alone. In 1999, in a three-month period in Sindh 132 women were done to death in the name of honour, and in Punjab in eleven months 266 deaths were reported.

According to a February 2003 press release by Madadgaar, an organization funded by UNICEF: ``....during the last year in Sindh 423 cases of karo-kari were reported; in Punjab 319, in Balochistan 36, while in the NWFP 45 such cases were reported in the print media. A comparison of data collected in 2002 and 2001 shows that the trend remains the same and most of the cases were reported from Sindh. In 2001, the print media reported 453 cases in Sindh, 204 in Punjab, 69 in Balochistan and 27 in the NWFP. .... The monitoring of all the reported cases revealed that in 346 cases the perpetrator was the husband; in 183 cases a brother; in 92 cases in-laws; in 46 cases the father; and in 32 cases the perpetrator was a son``

Background of the monologues....they were held at the Human Rights Commission as part of an effort directed at Violence Against Women. proceeds from the show went towards women-oriented organizations.

the monologues are about violence against women - about rape and brutality. about making them feel horrible about themselves. see the show to understand.

Now, men need to understand that women are sexually repressed from birth. My basic argument is that this repression leads to more generalized female inferiority. If you dont understand this, then you dont understand any part of the discourse on women. It is precisely concepts such as sharm and haya that prove to be the woman`s nemesis. these are notions created by men as policing tools. Think about that....

and ironman, i hope that answers your question too. sexual equality is not limiting. It is a first step.

A tribute to A.Naqshbandi, a great soldier of Islam:


Vagina Vagina Vagina Vagina
Vulva Vulva Vulva Vulva
Penis, Penis, Penis, Penis
Sex Sex sex
Pusssy Pusssy Pusssy
Cunnt Cunnt Cunnt
Cocck Cocck Cocck Cocck

And best of all Clitoris Clitoris Clitoris

Yeah and also Cunnilingus? Ever peformed muh brothers in Islam?

Long live the sexual revolution in Pakistan!!!!

-Ah come on you gotta know who this is!

Her Saintliness SaimaShah #35

``VM is a beautiful play--it makes the heart soar--the heavy burden of being a woman who constantly has to hide, protect and deny who or what she is, is lifted for a brief 2 hour time period. ``


hahahahaha....are you for REAL???...hahahahahahaha

Nnaqshbandi: I find myself agreeing with you on this issue, and I say this seriously. The problem is not the message, the problem is the importance given to shock value. It is the Gloria Steinem types who would have a major fit if the there were a bunch of guys standing around spounting off on the ``Penis Monologues``.

I repeat, one can address rape or even sexual dysfunctionality without resorting to deliberate shocking of sensitivites. In fact, the shock value then takes away from the core message. I have seen the marketing of the play on billboards and heard ads on the radio. Does the markting harp on the seriousness of the issue? Hell no!! All the advertising is based on a play of the word vagina and the equivialant of sniggering. So what is the point?

Then you have the desi aunties who will shift their ample bottoms and go watch a play like this and think they are very cool and with it. Hypocrites.

These are the reviews posted on the home page of the vagina monolgues.

``ASSOCIATED PRESS
``ASTONISHING THEATRE.
Hilarious, Outrageous and Effecting.``



“SIMPLY SPECTACULAR
Funny, poetic and provocative. An ‘A’”

Am I the only one who sees a disconnect between the above headlines and ..

``the monologues are about violence against women - about rape and brutality. about making them feel horrible about themselves.``

as the author of this article puts it? I don`t understand what is so funny and poetic about rape and brutality, unless these feminists choose to make it so.

two can play this game. wet t-shirt contest at french beach on saturday to celebrate opening of first hooters in karachi.

Mantolives alias Yasser Latif Hamdani

Welcome back. Have you finally decided to join Pakistani politics?

khadija/khatam-shud

just an irrelevant comment:

...kudos for interacting in a serious, no-nonsense manner on such a topic...will second shandy and urge you to write more...and love your nick:)

It is precisely concepts such as sharm and haya that prove to be the woman`s nemesis. these are notions created by men as policing tools. Think about that....

...no amount of awareness and de-programming will take away my acquired, cultivated and inbuilt reluctance to use these words in public...it is not shar’m or haya…and it is not just these words … shift the gender and there are others…can and have used them in creative pieces…but no, not in ordinary usage…

…soon as adam acquired a certain sensibility…or was programmed or ordained he clutched at the fig leaf…(digression: wonder if eve went for a leaf or leaves?)…shar’m, hayah, decency, manners whatever we chose to call it preceded gender inequality, racial/class/caste discrimination and a host of other issues facing us today…

…policy tools is perhaps not an apt word to describe a discriminatory trend that has evolved over a period of time…and even if we term it as ‘policy tool’ then let us remind ourselves that these ‘tools’ have been used by the strong against weak throughout history…and the weak were not exclusively women…

…wonder if the monologues have played out in India and if so what has been the reaction there…

rgds,

t

pankaj

sssssssssssssshhhhh

politics not yet :)

how`ve u been?

-Manto

Faisaluno:

``wet t-shirt contest at french beach on saturday to celebrate opening of first hooters in karachi. ``

Good good. I am going to produce a play which will be reflection on the change in perception of male sexuality. It`ll be a cathartic display of male emotions with respect to the adverse impact of feminism.

The title will be : cock a Doodle Do.

Actually, a new play has been written that deals with what it feels like for men to have a penis. It is called, and I kid you not, The Viagra Monologues. It was written by a woman (forget her name now) and is based on interviews with men, much as the Vagina Dialogues was written.

I was invited to go see the Vagina Monologues in Karachi but I did not go, because I wasn`t sure how I`d feel seeing this play with a Pakistani audience. Instead I read the script online, and I found it a bit ``out there`` in parts, hysterically funny in others, and moving as well. I`d have no real objection to its being staged, and I think women-only audiences are a good idea in places like this. I hear that they are going to perform it in Bombay for a woman-only audience soon after being inspired by the performance here.

What I feel is that when people - especially men - get upset at this play and its use of the word vagina or all the euphemisms for it, it is because of an unspoken desire to deny the existence of the vagina altogether. All right, it exists, but I feel that men would like to think otherwise. At least, they would like to think that the vagina exists for two reasons: their own sexual pleasure, and as a birth canal. Any other reason should not be discussed. They would rather not talk about the vagina or hear women discussing the vagina.

Basically the point of this play is not to shock people or to glorify vulgarity. It is for women to be able to claim their own vaginas. Take them back, as it were, from the two reasons I described above, and show the world that the vagina is an integral part of a woman for many more reasons than just childbirth and pleasuring men. I think any woman will instinctively understand what I`m talking about, and men can also understand if they talk to women about their feelings instead of pretending that vaginas do not exist outside of the bedroom or the delivery room.

And if you really can`t deal with that, nobody asked you to go watch the play or even read this article.

temporal,

VM has been running to packed houses in India. In the famous Prithvi Theatre it ran for nine consecutive shows.

naqshbandi:


``What next? The Penis Monologues?! ``


...why the hell not?...read it and weep...


http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/entertainment/view/45317/1/.html

Ralph

thanks...any links?...any reports of the kind of reaction from men there?


...t

In Sudan and Somalia, female clitorus is circumcised. So that the women are not sexualy sensitive. (on religious basis)

If it was the same reason for the male circumcision in Islam, then probably it has not worked too well.

One of the earliest productions of VM in India was in July 2002, in Bangalore. It created quite a sensation, specially among women who flocked to the performances. Men have been uneasy and curious about VM. There was a small backlash from a few men. Some lawyers sued the producers for the crime of indecency!

Read about official vaginas from here

http://www.vaginamonologues.com/index.html

and about South Asian vaginas from here

http://www.sasisters.org

Bina Shah,

Hear hear.

The rest of the males who are shocked:

Get bent.

Zahra,

Ideally the VMs should be experienced in the theatre...second best would be the doc.

What I find amusing and completely predictable is the hai hai of some of the men interactors here. Shall we talk about the Penis Monologues? It is performed 24/7 365 days of the week, infinitum in a trillion ways on every street corner. It is performed on subways when men sit with their legs stretched out as far as possible in complete indifference to the needs and considerations of other passengers. It is performed every time a woman crosses a street corner and is catcalled. It is performed when a woman student is told the school she is interested in applying to is ``competitive``. It also occurs when women on an internet board cant even discuss a play in piece.

Stuka,

You backside better rival Brad Pitt`s. Can anyone vouch for it?

Hey stuka: Americans find East is East hilarious as well...go figure. There are portions which are funny - and trust me thats allowed....sometimes you laugh because someone else`s pain is so thoroughly yours as well, something you`ve been through time and again and you smile -or laugh- in acknowledgment. In understanding. I dont think there is a ``disconnect`` between the laughter and the pain.

temporal....i meant policing as in police-ing not policy-ing. sorry about that. and thank you. and thank you again ;)

Jay: you dont need to read articles by Cowasjee. turn to the second page of any local paper - anyone - and read about the ``accidental burnings`` that routinely take place every single day. You dont need to turn to the villages....honor killings happen under our noses everyday. They happen amongst people who work in our homes and we`ve never been able to do anything about it. And Im tremendously sorry for you if you believe that only 286 women died in the Punjab in 1998. Wake up and learn to take official figures with a little less deference. Perpetrators are always men, victims always women. Think about why that is and then talk about the necessity of sharam and haya. If you can do that and still feel that sharam and haya are vital then im sorry for you again.

I wish men needed the penis monologues - and maybe some of them do. i hope that if they exist and you watch them, and they are meaningful stories rather than exaggerated stories of male sexual exploits, then maybe you will understand why the vagina monologues are moving, and hilarious, and why they still talk about violence against women...and why they are important.

Shandana: yes, art and literature are full of instances which embrace the female body. and yes, it is wrong to say that the vagina monologues are completely groundbreaking. they are not. But they are an in-your-face production - i dont care about the writers motivation or intent - i only care about my own experience with them and the fact that they do serve as good mind-openers for women and men alike ( i took my father to the performance - he is a conservative man - and he loved it!).

I said this before: unless you create shock value, people remain dormant. Shock is good. It wakes you up.

Khadija

``At least, they would like to think that the vagina exists for two reasons: their own sexual pleasure, and as a birth canal. ``

I beg to differ. Men also believe that the vagina exists for the pleasure of the woman as well.

``vaginas do not exist outside of the bedroom or the delivery room. ``

Well, they don`t. The sexual organ exists for reproduction and mutual pleasure. Where else does it belong? In the kitchen? Or the outhouse maybe?

Samina:

``Stuka,

You backside better rival Brad Pitt`s. ``

Huh? Why the preoccupation with my backside?

``Can anyone vouch for it? ``

So now you are assuming that the preoccupation exists among other Chowkies as well? Well, I`m flattered but I think you are being a tad too optimistic.

I found VM to be degrading and insulting to women folk.

Stukaji:

I believe this is yours:

``...Then you have the desi aunties who will shift their ample bottoms and go watch a play like this and think they are very cool and with it. Hypocrites. ...``

Glass houses, my friend, glass houses...


Anyone see the Alice Walker doc where she visits an African village that practices female circumcision? Indian feminist director if I remember...womenmakefilms...

Samina:

``...Then you have the desi aunties who will shift their ample bottoms and go watch a play like this and think they are very cool and with it. Hypocrites. ...``

Glass houses, my friend, glass houses... ``

I stand by the texture and tensile strength of my butt. As far as ample bottoms of desi aunties are concerned, I really do not live in a glass house. Feel free to come and grab. :)

Stuka #65,

``I stand by the texture and tensile strength of my butt``

Didn`t know that butts could have tensile strength. Compressive, i can understand.

I do get amazed by desi aunties` high compressive strength butt and their gravity defying bust. I`m sure scientists looking for the fifth fundamental force in nature (anti-gravity), might benefit from observing desi aunties.

Khadija,

A pleasent and refreshing article. Ever heard of tantrik sub-culture in our sub-continent? I guess its hardly there anymore, but you`ll be pleasently surprised when you learn a little about it.

Adios

Could anyone hailing these great monologues in Pakistan educate me as to what is the purpose of staging these shows? If the purpose is to show that it can ``happen in Pakistan``, no problem. If the purpose is to reaffirm the faith of the liberated, I am sure it serves the purpose. But if it is to improve the life experiences of the ordinary suffering Pakistani women, especially those who live 25 miles away from any of the places where such a play can be staged without causing a lynching frenzy, I have my doubts. Yes, they will be shocked, but shocked not into changing their thinking but making sure their daughters and sisters do not get the kind of schooling which would ``corrupt`` them and would send them, instead to places where they get a firm grounding in ``sharm, hayya and quraan``.

dost-mittar
...the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step:)

with minor changes i suspect what you wrote could apply to anywhere on the subcontinent

...t

Somehow I thought interacts on this board will be more interesting than that.

Stuka,

Yes...``tensile`` would be characteristic of Rep males of color...dems redefine ``tensile`` as ``uptight``...and my question remains: are you implying that the women who wrote in favor of the VMs are overweight aunties? Please, take responsibility for your comments.

Dost Mittar,

To some extent, any work performed on stage whether it be the VMs or Ibsen`s The Doll House reaches a theatre going audience.

My questions are:

1. given that reality, does that render VM or The Doll House meaningless?

2. Are the themes and ideas expressed in the VM unrecognizable to women of varying classes, should agrarian or working poor Pakistani women see it? Can we assume that each community of women do not create/perform/disseminate their own versions of the VM though various means?

3. Isnt the criticism that the VM is preaching to the converted a kind of ``top down`` argument-i.e. the masses at the ``bottom`` need to be educated in order for art performance like the VM to have any effect?

4. Can you name one play that has emancipated/liberated male working classes? Why then, this expectation of the VM?

5. Can it not be argued that the VM begins a dialogue between Eastern-Western feminisms - and in light of anti feminists who claim there is no such dialogue, it should be acknowledged as Temp Bhai pointed, such?

My CUNY college-a very working class, conservative, people of color student pop performed the VMs last year-young female students acted it out. I heard that it was sold out for every performance.

Khadija:

To some extent I agree with your analogy on shock and its value, but let`s not forget your surroundings.

Dear Nand Uncle:

- Your assessment of the topic under discussion is partially inaccurate. Mainly because you are not aware of the Pakistani Society and its exposure. Your memories and exposure are of pre-partition days. Probably, you should care to visit Pakistan on your next trip.

Regards.

#35 Saimashah
To all those who think that Vagina`s are dirty and not suitable to be discussed in public settings--and there are many among us--swear words like behen chod, chutiya, mother fucker--are an indication of what we think about women`s bodies--used quite often in public settings and private.

What you say may be true - that some men are contemptuous of women`s bodies, but the examples don`t quite cut it. The abuses are not to denigrate the female body per se but to insinuate moral depravity.
The discussions have been interesting. I tend to agree somewhat with Sac that the attraction of the play to the audience, which must certainly come from a certain social class, is perhaps its ``phorenness`` rather than a shared sense of solidarity or identity. My guess & I could be wrong.

Samina:


``Yes...``tensile`` would be characteristic of Rep males of color...dems redefine ``tensile`` as ``uptight``...``

God knows I have tried to not discuss politics with you but hey, you can`t reason with fanatics can ya?? If Dems define ``tensile`` as ``uptight`` I guess it is a result of their piss poor command of the English language, accentuated no doubt by attending Bilingual ed.


``and my question remains: are you implying that the women who wrote in favor of the VMs are overweight aunties? ``

I do not need to imply anything because I say what I mean. I certainly do not mean that the author is an overweight aunty. I certainly do state that overweight aunties of metropolitan South Asian cities will go see a play like this and do ``wah wah`` over it because it is outrageous, shocking and of western origin.



``Please, take responsibility for your comments. ``

I do. It would be nice of you took your own advice in various columns.

re: this article
Interesting discussion so far. So, after centuries (nay, millenia) of penis-vagina dialogue, we have some womenfolk getting all excited about VM. I am sure it will get boring eventually and we will go back to the glorious days of the dialogue.
Pun aside, i read about a similar play many years ago. It was a stage adaptation of a Greek play (Lissastrass?) called ``Aaj se pyar bandh hai``. It dealt with womenfolk in general getting fed up of all men, the violence, politics and everything and deciding not to have any sex with them in future! Pretty soon they bring all men to their senses and grovelling to them on their knees! Anyone in Chowk remember or seen that play? It was i think staged in Bombay, among other places.
Sridhar

PS by some of the stuff I meant some of the stuff being said against the play...

Naqshu ji and other soldiers of Islam,

GO TO THE PLAY! It is GOOD!

My last incarnation was known to have some distinct differences with people like Saima Shah and Sameena Shah etc... however on this one even he would have gladly agreed with the womenfolk... The Vagina Monologues is a liberating experience in a country which is increasingly repressive when it comes to issues of sexuality....

I found VAGINA monologues to be refreshingly out there and honest about stuff...
And I can`t believe some of the stuff that is being said...

-Manto

Reply # 65

[``I stand by the texture and tensile strength of my butt. As far as ample bottoms of desi aunties are concerned, I really do not live in a glass house. Feel free to come and grab. :)``]

We ignore the miscellaneous vaginas for the time being and take note of the khatri bottom which is literally up for grabs on chowk today. We would like to express our interest in testing the texture and tensile strength of this butt. Khatri beware though, in our seven on one setting, it will be stretched and stress tested far beyond its original specifications and this testing might render it unusable for its intended functions for several days thereafter.

Best Regards

Your loving friends in San Francisco

Ali_1:

Hey dude, your Gaydar seems to be on high alert. I haven`t seen you around at Chowk for a few months now. Yet, no sooner has the conversation turned to my butt, you come sniffing away like a hound dog. What`s up with that :)

BTW, The tensile butt was up for grabs to one specific left wing progressive feminista female (I hope) Chowk interactor.

stuka:

a lesson we learn from a very early age is that we should not leave ourselves exposed like this. (you can guess the reason why).

mantolives:

``in a country which is increasingly repressive when it comes to issues of sexuality``

are you kidding? or were you born post-zia and thus were not around in the days when women newscasters were fired for not wearing a dupatta on their heads? and did you read in todays dailytimes, the story of khushboo dancing in a public theatre in lahore without her shirt?

Rsridhar,

You are referring to Lysistrata.

Sac, Soy, etc. (except Stuka)

Sill waiting for some answers to my post to Dost Mittar. The rest of you are more than welcome to give it a go.

But no one trying to answer these questions confirms my suspicions that y`all have been outfoxed

re saminasha #70:

As much as I would love to argue with you, I am afraid it`s a losing proposition. Here is what a typcial argument with you usually goes like. The topic is ICECREAM and stuka is caught in the headlights here.

stuka: Icecream is sweet.
saminasha:How do you know it`s sweet? Have you ever thought about tasting all flavors of icecream before coming to that sexist conclusion?
stuka:I think I`ve tried a lot of flavors. Actually my ex-Paki girlfriend used to work in an ice-cream parlor.....and I liked to work on her ;)
saminasha:Did you ever ask her whether she wanted to work there? Do you think women like working in icecream parlors and attending to leering male customers? Did you ever try and put yourself in her shoes? You are not only a Republican but a degenerate woman basher who wants to keep his women in a freezer.
stuka:But I thought we were talking about icecream and the fact that it`s sweet.
saminasha:The hell with icecream and sweetness shweetness. This is merely a cover for your real agenda. You are using icecream to push the fact that men tend to think of women as icecreams. Eat all you want and throw away the wrapper when you are done. But what you don`t know is that all of us sistas know that the jig is up. We are not going to be sold like HaagenDaas anymore. We`ll use wrappers made with recyclable cardboard manufactured in lesbian prison camps in China. Icecream be damned.
stuka:Ok. Let me get this straight. I think icecream is sweet to tbe best of my knowledge. Even my Democratic friends agree with me on that count. As for the Paki girlfriend. OK I made that up. She was Puerto Rican but that`s not the point......
saminasha:Another blatant lie. What don`t you apologize to me, my father, my aunt in Kentucky, temporal, my East African teletubby in my basement and all my students who don`t wear bras?
stuka:I will not.
saminasha: I win. I`ve outfoxed everyone. Now let me go eat some icecream.

later
-sac

Ref faisaluno #78

[...and did you read in todays dailytimes, the story of khushboo dancing in a public theatre in lahore without her shirt?]

This wouldn`t be the Khushboo who acts in Tamil movies in India, someone whose physique resembles a waterbuffalo, would it? That would break Soysauce`s heart who regularly visits the temple dedicated to her in Trichy.

Ref ali_1 #77

[We ignore the miscellaneous vaginas for the time being and take note of the khatri bottom which is literally up for grabs on chowk today.]

Still trolling for gay sex on Chowk, as usual.

the VM is a nice effort in terms of expressing female liberty but then arguing with Khadija`s standpoint if we had reached that societal evolution or not - it looks a lil bit of a confined effort for a select group and then again for a circle who already had gotten enough exposure. secondly as far expressing words which are - generally - not spoken in public is concerned...with all due respect, it doesnt make an intellectual effort as a historic one.

to be honest with you all, i watched it the way i would watch `Shartia Mithay` in punjabi or seeing omar sharif doing his gigs in urdu. nothing was special in terms of `celebrating womanhood and liberty` and if it comes by uttering words - well, let`s see and wait!

but then again - it was a nice sitting with good airconditioning for a while!

Saminasha: That was a brilliant rendition of the Penis Monologues!

Stuka: you`ve got to hand it to her! And about your i-call-them-as-see-them comments about overweight aunties doing wah-wah over anything foreign, i`m sort of thinking that your love for fine food and beverages (which sort of guarantees middle-aged portliness unless one is an exercise freak or heavily on recreational drugs) and your i-love-prem-chopra-in-a-white-suit-and-straw-hat, doesnt make overweight aunties swooning over tortured western vaginas sound that bad. And why absolve me of the label. If only overweight aunties can enjoy something like this, then let me be one as well.

Urstruly: degrading to womenfolk! seriously, you`ve got a long way to go if this is what you think degrades women. What degrades women is verbal, physical, emotional abuse. What degrades them is a khushboo dancing topless in a public theatre (yes faisaluno. That is female abuse!)

Maharana: Thank you. Am a little aware of tantric sub-culture. Am also aware that there isnt much awareness of it. So what little i see out there, i take. And i try to keep it alive.

Dost-mittar: What is the purpose of anything?

temporal: :)

dullabhatti: Im sorry this doesnt interest you. but at least youre honest. and seem sincere.

soysauce: maybe the attraction does come from its ``phorenness``. and maybe it only appeals to a certain social class (which, by the way, I dont agree with). But then why arent you called garam-masala?

ZahraJ: why should surroundings matter? I realize that the first guy who posted a comment wanted me beheaded, but if I let people like him get to me, or if we let people like him get to us then why are we even talking about this?

rsridhar: you like ``aaj say pyar bandh hai``, i like the vagina monologues. Something tells me that they`ve made more of an impact than the adaptation you so enjoyed. And by the way, yes penis-vagina dialogue is old. But the only mutilated penis ive ever heard of is history by now, and mutilated vaginas are a never-ending story.

This thread is a good discussion - may be in the preliminary stages of fornication.

I have no problem with such an emancipation.

Saimasha:

I admit I am too old fashioned, maybe even a prude, linguistically, to take too much interest in a program with the title of male or female genitalia. I would rather watch an old video of Marx Brothers, Charlie Chaplin, even Bob Hope than to go to see VM performance. However, based on what I have read, including the discussion here, here are my answers to the questions.

I would say that the play is not meaningless in the Western context where the issue of women`s sexuality is front-and-centre (no pun intended!). Even the working class milieu from which CUNY gets its students is not unaware of these issues. So, the effect of the show on the audience is likely to be what the producers/players intended.

Not so in Pakistan or even India (where, despite dowry deaths, the women`s movement is stronger, has more political support and the issues of sexuality are no longer taboo, as they are discussed sometimes even in mainstream Bollywood). There, for the overwhelming majority of people, the issues are more basic. I don`t mean sex is not basic, but it is not as basic as the right to live and not to be burned or killed, or traded for men`s ``honour``, for not conforming to the society`s standards and even while conforming to them. Only when these issues have been dealt with will the issues raised by VM dialogues can make any sense to them.
I have no problem with the top down approach, but its trickle down effects are even less than that of Reagonomics. I presume that the audience of such plays is largely the creamy layer of the society. The creamy layer of the South Asian society has always been able to live by its own rules, even during the times of Rutti Jinnah, without making any impact on the rest of the society. Their liberation doesn`t interest me that much.

I think that shock therapy can work, but only when a critical mass of the society is prepared for it. Otherwise, it can be counterproductive. What would happen, for instance, if a few ``aunties``, after seeing the play in Karachi go out to preach the message to the women of Korangi? Will they find a receptive audience?

But if the purpose of VMs is to initiate a dialogue between eastern and western feminism, I have no problem, though I would be surprised if eastern feminists are really so concerned about the issues of same-sex marriage or the right to go topless on the streets.

ZahraJ:
My comments are based on the current realities of the South Asian society as described in the media and here at chowk. Even now, there does not seem to be much opposition in NWFP`s plans to remove all hoardings with women`s pictures. As I said above, you need to have a favourable critical mass in the society before the shock therapy will work. Right now, it doesn`t work even on your Nand uncle!