A Failed Education

If you are gonna count.. there are many more.... (these are other than quaid-e-azam chair holders)

Noman ul Haq, History of science at Penn

Zia mian I believe at Princeton...



Akbar S Ahmad is at GW? or some university in Washington these days...

Anwar Ahmed Bhatti Professor of Physics at Rockefeller U ... but I think he is doing research with Furmi? Labs these days...

Hamza Alavi was a decorated professor...

Khalid Bin Sayeed taught history at many canadian universities



late fazlurrahman was a well known professor

C M Naim used to be at Syracruse...

obviously Late Dr. Abdussalam with his institute dedicated to research in Italy

Mahboob ul Haq was also at a few universities...




The point is valid though... there is a dearth.

Pmishra2 #8

{{Other than Ayesha Jalal I have never heard of a single Pakistani academic in a leading department in the US or UK. WHere are these wonderful people?}}

Gul Agha at Urbana-Champaign CS (an outspoken Sindhi nationalist, BTW).

Sara Suleri at Yale.

Akbar S. Ahmed at Selwyn College, Cambridge (now allegedly somewhere else). I find it difficult to take this character seriously.

There may have been assorted visiting faculty as well (e.g. Bapsi Sidhwa). Not a great deal of visibility, though.

``I request that all interactors on this site present their own solutions to this major problem.``

My solution is maximum privatisation. The government should de-nationalize all educational institutions. Hand them over to non-profit NGO`s or even for-profit companies.
Get out of the business of setting curriculm altogether. Let private institutions pick their own curriculm and form their own boards. The entire education budget should consist of scholarships to needy students, especially in under-developed areas. Let the people vote with their feet on what kind of curriculm they want.

...correction....the third to last line should read quagmire...

I second Sameerjb`s proposal on the first education Czar of Pakistan!!!!

Hamidm,

Agreed... as much as I believe in freedom of speech... I think that might be necessary...


Semipreciousme,

yaar kabhi kabhar likhti ho, magar khoob likhti ho... lakshmi chowk ka khana khati ho akhir :)

``no more regurgitating parroted crap where the more you write, the higher you score``

Thankyou... thankyou so much !







P-Mishra2 sahib,

Given your propensity to see only what you want to see... I find it amazing that you`ve heard of Ayesha Jalal... take that blinder of hate off, and maybe we could talk...
as for the mudslinging fest... I know you are a frequent visitor to those grounds yourself...
Do I need to dig up more of your fanatical, hate filled posts?

You are the Indian equivalent/counterpart of our air marshal.



-YLH

``I request that all interactors on this site present their own solutions to this major problem.``


...where to start?....for my part, i`d like to see a curriculum devised where the students actually have to THINK, damn it!...no more regurgitating parroted crap where the more you write, the higher you score...revamp the pak studies and islamiat syllabi...cut the good-muslim-evil-baniya nonsense...stop whitewashing history...sigh...but like someone said, getting the literacy rate above 30% would be a good start....


...but there are, despite the quamire, some bright spots...

18 Pakistani students get world honours in O & A levels

http://www.dawn.com/2000/10/26/top11.htm

Syed Ali Saheb:

Deep rooted problems require multi-pronged approach. The problem of education is tied to many other social, religious and political problems of Pakistani society. The simplified whitewashing solutions proposed by eminent specialist at chowk are face-lift jobs without strengthening the roots. The educated system can not be reformed without reforming the causes for its failure at the first place.

Due to re-scheduling of loans in post 9/11 scenario, Pakistani budget has more percentage of resources than before available for development expenditure. Before major budget outlays were repayment of loans and defense with about 20-25 percent left for employees salaries and development. But first thing, govenment did was to increase defense spending by 11 percent. They are also spending large amount of money to stabilize and strengthen bankrupt military welfare system of industries. They generated billions of rupees from selling government owned sick industrial units and big chunk of that money also went for military welfare system. Another large chunk of money was used to buy political loyalties of QML and NA type parties. Education budget went up 3 percent, less than necessary to just adjust inflation.

My solution is to create Education Czar position, a position above ministerial level and not answerable to prime minister or president except for accounting by GAO (something similar to chief justice of supreme court). He/ She must have absolute dictatorial powers to revamp the entire system and his/ her budgetary demands must be met by finance ministry in annual budget. I propose Prof. Pervez Hoodbhoy as the first Education Czar of Pakistan.

#14 Mantolives

I can see that you are beginning your usual name calling and mud slinging festival here.

Why don`t you answer my question?

Re: Mantolives,
``Is this indoctrination?``

No, it is not.
And I never said that it was. What I am saying is that the kind of indoctrination and propaganda that is described in this article can also take place under a secular ideology.
That wouldn`t be `true` secularism, you might say. But then this isn`t `true` religion.

manto,


.......... i propose we ban airman romair from writing anything for a month ........diplomas from sargodah, risalpur and kamra do not qualify a person to speak in public - they are almost as worthless as those holy sanads from akora khaattak and mansoora................. call it censorship, call it a holiday from stupidity ..................

manto zindabad!
manto for PM!

It is not religion... it can be any indoctrination.... US went through its anti-communism indoctrination... even my favorite Turkey made the mistake of trying to inculcate the now redundant `sun-language theory` ...

Such endeavors are dangerous... but none so dangerous as the rejection of FACTS like Evolution which is exclusively due to religious indoctrination.

PS: It is either you `don`t allow any considerations for any religion in the educational system` or you let religion override it... that is how it is. Religion should be studied but from a critical angle... and not as Dogma... Islamic Jurisprudence, History and philosophical thought can be taught... Islam as the `greatest ethical system` and `miracles of the prophets` as facts shouldn`t be taught.


The `secularists` (which now Romair, the great literary mind, and his side kick `Khurram` will denigrate) only want a system where nothing is taken to be the absolute truth. When facts are accepted as facts, and rejected when new facts appear. Pure and Simple. Hence this allows for unfettered pursuit of simple knowledge without any consideration for faith or dogma...

Is this indoctrination? A sane person will not agree... Romair`s sanity however is already questionable...

Khurram..

Sadly you have reduced my argument to `secularism vs religion`... I thought such delusions were only the hallmark of the great Air Marshal... You haven`t answered any of the questions I asked Romair. Here is a re-post of those questions ... feel free to answer them... Educational system should not have any time for Religion... Religion should be confined to home or place of worship. If religion persists then :


Does the Air Marshal really think that the nation will produce any good scientists if the aim and objective is the `glory of Islam` and the proof of `God`s existence?

Does the Air Marshal really think that if our kids don`t study evolution WHICH IS A FACT they will have a clue about Biology?

What kind of art will such an `Islamic society` produce? Calligraphy?

What kind of lawyers, Jurists, and law givers will a society like this provide? Have you ever wondered why we don`t have the lawyers of Jinnah`s standard anymore in the great Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

What kind of Economists ? Those who denigrate the `Interest Banking?




The point is when you `learn` for the sake of `God` ... when you reject `Evolution`... when you reject man`s noblest endeavors ... when you reject modern institution like Banking etc... You destroy creativity and freethinking.... MIND YOU It is not just a `secularism vs religion` issue... it is the liberation of the human mind from religious dogma and chains which keep people backward when it comes to science and an unstinted effort to learning the facts... pure and simple facts... a theologically based educational system is thus inherently incapable of producing great scientists, artists or mathematicians.


Both you and the Air Marshal will do well to read the speech by a legislator who spoke against the original blasphemy law (currently PPC 295) in the British times.... he spoke about the censure such wicked laws place on honest inquiry into the myths we call `faiths`.
I`ll let you guess who the legislator was...

-YLH

Pakistan Studies is only one part of the curriculm. Most students don`t consider it to be central to their studies. Sure it needs to be reformed. But that won`t change a poor institution into a quality one.
The rot started with nationalization. Corrupt and inefficient governemnts have driven every nationalized industry into the ground. Education is no exception. Government will not solve this problem. Education needs to be privatized as much as possible. Government investment should be in the form of scholarships and not control of educational institutions.

Mantolives,

Why are you making this a secular vs. religion issue? The issue is dogmatic indoctrination and propoganda. Secularists are just as capable of it.