A Failed Education

re:#139 by HisExcellency
Thanks for your post.
I agree that these text books need to be revised. Let children not be exposed to hatred. A similar thing is being attempted in India but BJP will find it a tough going to change text books to suit its political needs. The media is more aware than ever before.
Sridhar

#145 tahmed

{{That is, the obsessive need to denigrate pakistan that is evident in posts from you and others (like the half-brain arjun, and with all due respect the doctor sahib rsridhar) on this board speaks for itself about the quality of education you have received in India. While there are a couple of pakistanis of your kind as well on chowk, by and large you dont find this obsessive need to degrade the India and Indians.}}

My take is that what attention Indians might pay to Pakistan today has little to do with their education in India, which, extrapolating from my own experiences, completely ignores Pakistan. One might even adopt the position that Indians paying attention to Pakistan today are making up for a misspent youth where they learnt nothing about the western neighbour (on the then reasonable assumption that it was and would continue to be of marginal significance in their lives).

This assumption of Pakistan’s relative insignificance has been proven wrong by the events of recent years. The establishment on the other side of the border has for several decades used hatred of India as a pillar of their official propaganda, and for at least a decade has continuously sponsored and supported extensive terrorist activities on Indian soil. It is therefore natural that an increasing number Indians are finally paying attention, if only of a completely negative sort. For instance, the education system of Pakistan – in schools following government-approved curricula - is central to understanding the origins of officially sanctioned Pakistani notions of the true, the good and the beautiful.

Pakistanis who resent having the most unsavoury aspects of their system exposed to pitiless scrutiny by Indians and other foreigners would do well to fix their system rather than complain about its exposure. What matters most about any statement is the degree to which it is an accurate depiction of reality. Who made it – whether Pakistani, Indian, American, male, female, fauji, civilian, religious fanatic, atheist, etc. – is of secondary importance [though it often gives some useful background information in the long run].

If a statement made about Pakistan by an Indian happens to be truthful, factual, it should be absorbed, heeded and acted upon no matter how hurtful it is to Pakistani honour, dignity and pride. If a statement made about Pakistan by an Indian happens to be false or ill-founded or ignorant or a misrepresentation of reality, it should be simply proved wrong and shrugged or laughed off no matter how hurtful it might be. The same should hold with all possible permutations of identity (Pakistani <-> Indian, etc.). Reality should be the only judge that counts. Whining about ‘denigration’, ‘hate-mongering’ and so on in secondary and tertiary media such as Chowk is pointless, futile, and only deflects from real issues.

AlpheNull #159: ``If a statement made about Pakistan by an Indian happens to be false or ill-founded or ignorant or a misrepresentation of reality, it should be simply proved wrong``

Two points here:

1. What if regardless of how much proof is provided, Indians are completely brainwashed to an extent that they are unwilling to accept the proof? What can one do then?

2. Isn`t it better to not make false statements to begin with?

#157 tahmed32

Are you the chowkidar of Chowk to give us lectures on ``straying from the topic``??? Buzz off, bird brain.

This is an open forum. If you dislike spin-masters like HisFradulence being exposed when he makes delusional claims about the growth of IT (Info Tech, not Intl Terror which is doing just fine) in Pakistan, that is entirely your problem. Go someplace else.

ooops, there are some boys talking rudely in the last row of class, masterji, why don`t you go offer them your precious wisdom? Be careful, they may launch a spitball or two at you...

#158 by tahmed32

++
You have to admit that explanation is a bit of a stretch. In any case, wait till you get married to this girl and she catches you spending all this time on chowk. You will be called other things
++

To be honest, she called me ``HisExcellency`` only twice.. it sounded so utterly royal that I assumed this title in cyberworld ever since. To add some humor, I asked some of my pals to form a ``Royal Court`` in cyberspace. Both these dudes also took royal titles. My friend ``Duke of Daleria`` got married last year. The ``Prince of Wuchwuchanga`` is still fishing for a bride on desi chat channels. (He should have chosen a better title for his princedom).
My own brief ``royal`` career at chowk will end in December. After that I will most probably disappear into the ``unroyal`` world of domesticated husbands :))

Alephnull,

Agreed... exposing flaws in the Pakistani educational system is a good idea. If you read my posts, you will find me the harshest critic of Pakistani education.

But people like P-mishra, friend, and others go beyond that... they get down to lying about Pakistan... and when their lies are exposed, they lie some more.

-YLH

Congratulations His Excellency...


Seems like you and I both are going into that world of domesticated husbandry (pun) :) in december.

#167 by Mantolives

Congrats YLH. I suggest we form our own Ya-Ya Brotherhood! Rule#1 of the brotherhood: Thou shalt return to chowk every 100 days to stay in touch with the other folks (and occasionally pull a leg or two). I also invite other married or soon-to-be married chowkies (both Indian and Paksitani) to this secret society.

#166 by Mantolives

++
But people like P-mishra, friend, and others go beyond that... they get down to lying about Pakistan... and when their lies are exposed, they lie some more
++

I think they are just lazy. Instead of polishing their arguments, they resort to stereotypes, sweeping statements and name-calling. I mean even high school kids don`t do that nowadays, because the moment you do that... people think that you must be on a sticky wicket. At the risk of sounding condescending, I would advise these interActors to copy the styles of rsridhar and stuka especially. Debating with them is indeed a pleasure.

pmishra2 #164 oh my! having been exposed for what you are, you first resorted to trying to change the topic. Didnt work. Now you are lashing out at me in anger and frustration.

When you have cooled down, I suggest you reflect on the matter. You will realize you yourself demonstrated your poor Indian education. I merely drew attention to the obsession with trying to berate pakistan and pakistanis that is reflected in virtually every single one of your posts. Had you ever written anything (e.g. on some other subject), you would have been able to direct my attention to it. So, consider this ``Chowk education`` by a pakistani to be a form of adult remedial education. The education you never received in the home you grew up in, nor in the schools you went to in India.

You may end this discussion now, or continue your stupid responses. I wont be responding to your posts.

HisExcellency #168 The french used to call Louis XIV ``Your Majesty``, and then proceeded to overthrow him. I am not suggesting by any means that this is the fate your future wife has in store for you though.

Congratulations to you (and YLH too) on your respective forthcoming weddings. Take it from a much older man: there is such a thing as marital bliss. You need to work on it though. I say this based on 2 decades of married life.

Alephnull #159 I think my post to rsridhar largely responds to your post as well.

All that needs to be added to respond to your post is this: if I had a penny for every time some indian poster mentioned how little pakistan is discussed in india, i would be a millionaire. The undeniable fact is that you (for example) are one of the several indian posters who seem incapable of discussing anything on chowk other than pakistan. Your actions belie your words.

rsridhar #162 I am all for constructive criticism. And certainly, chowk is enriched by the presence of Indian posters who can provide mature reasoned criticism, on how things look like from the Indian perspective. I consider Dost Mittar (an Indian poster) to be an excellent example of such a poster. Other examples are Stuka who, while appreciative of Pakistani culture and people, nevertheless does I think a very good job of presenting the Indian viewpoint on issues like Kashmir. Shankar is another example, even though he tends to go wild a bit. But what he says is I think worth understanding and internalizing for any Pakistani who feels chauvinistic. I have no problem with such criticism.

What I object to is put downs for the sake of denigrating pakistanis. I objected for example to your characterization of your fellow resident doctors as being ``less competent``. This is clearly a put down, and can hardly be considered constructive criticism. From all indications, and on a per capita basis, the Pakistani immigrant population has in fact generally done as well as the Indian or any other immigrant population in the US or elsewhere. So, by all means criticize things about pakistan (e.g. pakistan government policies, or culture, or chauvinistic posts written by an individual poster), but please keep it constructive. Your words will carry more weight in that case. You may even change a few minds of pakistanis reading your posts.

And people like arjun and jay are in a different class all by themselves - they actually are thrilled with any misfortune befalling pakistanis. I wonder what kind of education they received in India.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

arjun-m#175
``India’s annual average per capita income is $470 but the National Council of Applied Economic Research ``estimates that the number of people living in households that earn at least $1,800 annually - considered the minimum for middle-income families - has increased 17% in just the past three years, to more than 700 million.`` At $1,800 per annum, Indian families can ``purchase motorbikes, televisions and refrigerators.``

Things dont add up. If 700 million people are making even $1800 each (not at least 1800) India`s per capita income will be more than $470 even if the rest of the population was earning zero dollars. Unless, the NCAER estimates realte to family income or purchasing power parity.

But I agree that India is on the march, and will continue onwards if the chaddiwallahs can be kept in check.