Bina Shah July 6, 2003
#89 Posted by dost_mittar on July 11, 2003 5:51:42 pm
tahmed32:
`` From a practical perspective, a language is a merely a means of communication. Far too much has been made of the ``language issue`` over the past 50 years. In future, everyone will speak the same language. And that language will be english. ``
Would you say the same thing about arabic and the language of quran? Will you advocate the end of teaching arabic in the madrassas in the United States, if not in Pakistan and India? Would you also start a campaign on chowk that Pakistani schools and offices should stop using urdu as a medium of instrunction and work and use only english for this purpose? Or is this only a convenient tool to deny panjabi its rightful place in the province where 75% of panjabis live?
`` From a practical perspective, a language is a merely a means of communication. Far too much has been made of the ``language issue`` over the past 50 years. In future, everyone will speak the same language. And that language will be english. ``
Would you say the same thing about arabic and the language of quran? Will you advocate the end of teaching arabic in the madrassas in the United States, if not in Pakistan and India? Would you also start a campaign on chowk that Pakistani schools and offices should stop using urdu as a medium of instrunction and work and use only english for this purpose? Or is this only a convenient tool to deny panjabi its rightful place in the province where 75% of panjabis live?
#88 Posted by SameerJB on July 11, 2003 3:38:31 pm
It did not end in 1971. Guess what language is Nazim from, the newly introduced word for mayor by Mutt and Naqvi, as if people were unhappy with the word mayor of the city. Nazim is not even used much in Urdu except for JI who calls their section incharge as nazim and nazim-e-aala etc. There is actually a commission under the chirmanship of a professor in Panjab University, Lahore, working to remove and add words fit with Pakistan ideology.....
#87 Posted by khamkhwa. on July 11, 2003 2:32:49 pm
tahmed32 #86.
As I mentioned: ``21st February 1952 was the beginning of the end of Pakistan and Two Nation Theory.`` That was the day the seeds of Bangladesh were sown and we saw the outcome in 1971. During these two decades, we were also guilty of further alienating the majority of Pakistan, with our behaviour, with our power, with our supposedly superior culture and with our actions.
Rahe naam Allah ka.
As I mentioned: ``21st February 1952 was the beginning of the end of Pakistan and Two Nation Theory.`` That was the day the seeds of Bangladesh were sown and we saw the outcome in 1971. During these two decades, we were also guilty of further alienating the majority of Pakistan, with our behaviour, with our power, with our supposedly superior culture and with our actions.
Rahe naam Allah ka.
#86 Posted by tahmed32 on July 11, 2003 1:02:46 pm
Banjaara #85 I have driven by those monuments, but have not visited them. I also saw smaller monuments of a similar design (like an inverted U, with the top part bent 45 degrees) in a number of small towns in Bangladesh when I used to go there in 1996-99. I was surprised to learn that the monuments were for the language riots of the 1950`s, not victory monuments to 1971. Clearly, the language riots seem to have left a much deeper impression on the Bangla psyche than the events of 1971, contrary to common belief outside Bangladesh.
#85 Posted by Banjaara on July 11, 2003 11:31:31 am
tahmed32# 83
21st February 1952 was the beginning of the end of Pakistan and Two Nation Theory. Five killed in police firing, three bystanders and two jute mill workers, none of the leaders was wounded or killed. The Bangladeshis pay homage to their language movement on 21st February known as `` Ekkuish February- Matro bhasha aandolun dibosh``. They raised a national monument at the site of the killings, which is located between the old campus of Dhaka University and Dhaka Medical College.It is the most visited spot in Bangladesh after the 1971 Martyrs Memorial in Sagar, 20 kilometer north-east of Dhaka.
jayjay #80
Excellent article by Safir Rammah. To a degree it absolves the urdu speaking people from the oft repeated charges that urdu has been imposed on the Punjabis by the Urdu speaking clique and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Punjabis themselves. Sometime ago someone mentioned on Chowk that not a single newspaper in Punjabi is published, whereas there are so many in Urdu out of Lahore alone. Perhaps the person was unaware of the fact that most of the owners, printers and publishers of the urdu language newspapers are Punjabi themselves, amongst whom the names of Majeed Nizami and Mir Khalil-ur-Rahman are at the top of the heap. Both of whom are long dead but their publications are still holding aloft the banner of urdu journalism in Punjab.
21st February 1952 was the beginning of the end of Pakistan and Two Nation Theory. Five killed in police firing, three bystanders and two jute mill workers, none of the leaders was wounded or killed. The Bangladeshis pay homage to their language movement on 21st February known as `` Ekkuish February- Matro bhasha aandolun dibosh``. They raised a national monument at the site of the killings, which is located between the old campus of Dhaka University and Dhaka Medical College.It is the most visited spot in Bangladesh after the 1971 Martyrs Memorial in Sagar, 20 kilometer north-east of Dhaka.
jayjay #80
Excellent article by Safir Rammah. To a degree it absolves the urdu speaking people from the oft repeated charges that urdu has been imposed on the Punjabis by the Urdu speaking clique and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Punjabis themselves. Sometime ago someone mentioned on Chowk that not a single newspaper in Punjabi is published, whereas there are so many in Urdu out of Lahore alone. Perhaps the person was unaware of the fact that most of the owners, printers and publishers of the urdu language newspapers are Punjabi themselves, amongst whom the names of Majeed Nizami and Mir Khalil-ur-Rahman are at the top of the heap. Both of whom are long dead but their publications are still holding aloft the banner of urdu journalism in Punjab.
#84 Posted by Saminasha on July 11, 2003 10:37:36 am
Harimauji,
Urdu comes from the Turkish word meaning ``encampment``- and considering the diversity of its speakers, its not such a bad description. Interestingly enough, my Indian friends make very little distinction between Urdu and Hindi...which makes Hindi a vehicle weighted with the same freight as Urdu, nahin?
Urdu comes from the Turkish word meaning ``encampment``- and considering the diversity of its speakers, its not such a bad description. Interestingly enough, my Indian friends make very little distinction between Urdu and Hindi...which makes Hindi a vehicle weighted with the same freight as Urdu, nahin?
#83 Posted by tahmed32 on July 11, 2003 8:42:35 am
sameerJB #77 Historically, language has periodically become an issue in pakistan only when some ideologue tried to impose urdu as a ``kaumi zabaan``. This happened of course in bengal, where the language riots of 1953 created a bitterness in Bengal that soured relations ever since all the way to 1971. It happened again periodically after that, particularly in Sindh. Today, it is not just expats who appreciate the value of english (lacking that, they would have no jobs except the lowest paying ones), but also ordinary people in Pakistan.
I was surprised a few years ago when, visiting Bangladesh, my Bengladeshi colleage spoke bitterly about politicans talking about making Bangla the national language and medium of instruction in schools while sending their own kids to english medium schools and sending them to the US or UK at the first opportunity.
I was surprised a few years ago when, visiting Bangladesh, my Bengladeshi colleage spoke bitterly about politicans talking about making Bangla the national language and medium of instruction in schools while sending their own kids to english medium schools and sending them to the US or UK at the first opportunity.
#82 Posted by UmerMurtaza on July 11, 2003 8:03:24 am
re: 79
I`m not trying to be rude but who are you?
Umer M
I`m not trying to be rude but who are you?
Umer M
#81 Posted by JayJay on July 11, 2003 7:23:24 am
http://www.apnaorg.com/articles/safir/psn.html
Status of Punjabi in Pakistan
Safir Rammah
Punjabi is the mother tongue of the majority of people in Pakistan. According to 1981 census, the last census for which the figures are available, Punjabi (including Saraiki, Hindko and other variations) is the “commonly spoken in the household” language for 60.43 per cent Pakistanis, followed by Pushto for 13.14 per cent, Sindhi for 11.77 per cent, Urdu for 7.60 per cent and Baluchi for 3.02 per cent. Yet, Punjabi has no official status either in Pakistan or in West Punjab. The medium of teaching in government and private schools in West Punjab is Urdu and, to a lesser extent, English. There is not a single Punjabi medium school in Pakistan, as compared to 36,750 Sindhi medium schools in Sindh and 10,731 Pushto medium schools in the NWFP, per a study in 2001. Except for a very small number of writers and activists, Punjabis are illiterate in their own language – they can neither read nor write Punjabi. The rich tradition of Punjabi literature, going back to the 12th century AD when Baba Farid composed his poetry in a highly developed and sophisticated Punjabi language, has been forgotten. Among the educated classes of Punjabis, instead of pride and affection, contempt and shame for their culture and language is commonly observed.
A closer study of this unique social phenomena of systematic and deliberate denial of their own ethnic identity by West Punjabis, as highlighted by their rejection of Punjabi language, provides many insights into the dynamics of search for an identity by various ethnic and religious groups in the subcontinent during and after the British colonial period and the way power structure has evolved in Pakistan.
The Lack of British Patronization: Prior to the annexation of Punjab by the British in 1849, Punjabi language had developed on the same course followed by most other regional languages in India. Throughout the period of Muslim dominance of India, Persian was the official language of Delhi durbar for conducting the official business until it was officially replaced by English in 1837. The language policies of British Government provided the catalyst for a number of local languages to flourish and develop into their modern and standardized forms. Prior to the British rule, a large number of local schools were functioning in the Punjab. They can be classified as madrassas (for Arabic and Islamic education), maktabs (for Persian education), Gurmukhi schools (for Punjabi language in Gurmukhi script and Sikh religious studies) and patshalas (Sanskrit schools). In all of these schools, Punjabi was the medium of teaching even though the main purpose was to teach other languages and religious subjects. For a number of years after the British conquest of the Punjab, official circulars and court orders were published in Punjabi. The subject of adopting Urdu or Punjabi as the official vernacular and medium of education in government schools was widely debated among the British officers. A number of them supported Urdu for various reasons, including their fear of resurgence of Sikhs if Punjabi was officially promoted. Most of the low level functionaries in the British governments bureaucracy in the Punjab had come from Urdu speaking areas. They also supported Urdu. Eventually, the British government adopted Urdu for Punjab’s schools and lower courts. Although Punjabi continued to be taught in some private schools in Gurmukhi script to Sikh children, it only served the purpose of religious studies since government employments were available only in Urdu and English. Punjabi missed the boat of British patronization that was the key turning point in the development of other regional languages, e.g., Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Sindhi, etc.
Urdu and the Muslim Identity: During the same time, the Hindi-Urdu controversy had erupted in Northern India where militant Hindu nationalists had begun to identify with Hindi language and the Muslims with Urdu. The fact that the Muslim League had made no inroads in Muslim majority provinces, including Punjab, until a couple of years before Partition and most of its following was in the provinces where Urdu was the spoken language of Muslim minority, helped Urdu to become the official language of Muslim League. The paramount political need to claim a separate identity of Indian Muslims overshadowed all regional sentiments among them. The educated classes of Punjabi Muslims accepted the hegemony of Urdu without any question. A review of Punjabi literature during the first half of 20th century reveals that while during the previous millennium, Muslim writers and poets had dominated Punjabi writings, they were conspicuously absent from the Punjabi literary scene after Urdu medium schools had replaced the traditional local schools in the Punjab. Corresponding to this change in the education system, the golden era of Punjabi Sufi poetry ended with Khwaja Ghulam Farid and Mian Muhammad at the beginning of the 20th century. Sikhs and Hindus wrote most of the Punjabi literature during this period. Punjabi Muslim intellectuals, writers and journalists abandoned their own language and willingly aligned themselves with Urdu as an indispensable requisite of their claim of a separate Muslim identity.
The Post-partition Crisis of Identity: After Partition, the language policy of Pakistan became a tool in the hands of military-civil bureaucracy axis that viewed the promotion of regional cultures and languages as a threat to their centralized power. Soon after independence, many regional movements, demanding a fair share of the state’s resources, had risen in East Bengal, Sindh, Baluchistan and the NWFP against the powerful center that was dominated by Punjabis. To counterbalance these demands for regional autonomy, efforts were made to develop a new national identity for all Pakistanis based on a Pakistani, and later Islamic, ideology and by making Urdu language as the symbol of this national identity. The predominance of Punjabis in civil bureaucracy and armed forces necessitated the complete submergence of Punjabi identity into an all- pervasive Pakistani identity as a political tool to legitimize the rejection of all other regional and linguistic identities. Punjabis were projected as the vanguards of Pakistan’s ideological frontiers. The Bengali Language movement of 1952 and the growing Bengali nationalistic tendencies that eventually led to the separation of Bangladesh from Pakistan, and the growth of regional movements in other provinces, further justified the educated Punjabis’ complacent attitude towards denial of their cultural and linguistic identity. The politics of language in the multi-language Pakistan is the politics of power struggle between a predominantly Punjabi center against various ethnic groups who demand their share in the national resources based on their regional nationalities. The self-serving opinion in the ruling classes of the Punjab since the Partition is to suspect all sentiments in favor of regional cultures in other provinces as anti-Pakistan. In their efforts to legitimize their hold on power and to eradicate the menace of provincialism, they lead by example by disregarding their own cultural and linguistic roots.
Language and Status in Pakistan: Language is an important symbol of status and class differentiation in Pakistan. English, as the official language of Pakistan, is the working language of all high-level government officials. Without knowing English, it is impossible to get lucrative jobs in the civil bureaucracy, military or in the private sector. English is the real language of power in Pakistan, just as it was during British colonial government and as Persian was before that. Learning Urdu is also a pre-requisite for entering the middle and low-level job market in Pakistan. The government runs a class-based discriminatory system of education by providing subsidized English education in state-run educational institutions for the children of power elite whose parents belong to armed forces and other government agencies, while mass education is provided in Urdu, and on a smaller scale, in Sindhi and Pushto. The fees for good private English schools are out of reach for common Pakistanis. On the one hand this creates a self-perpetuating elite class in Pakistan and on the other hand it makes various languages as class identifiers. English as a symbol of upper class, Urdu of middle and lower middle classes and Punjabi or other regional languages representing the uneducated peasantry and unskilled labor class. This provides a strong incentive for class conscious Punjabis to distance themselves from their language and common culture. The process of gentrification for an educated Punjabi begins with adopting Urdu for all formal usage and is further enhanced by learning to speak English.
In the villages, markets and majority of the rural and urban homes of West Punjab, the use of Punjabi language in conversations is as robust as ever. Most of the market-based popular media, outside the realm of state controlled radio and TV, is in Punjabi. Punjabis have become used to the contradiction of talking and listening in Punjabi while reading and writing in Urdu or English. Even Punjabis living in the Diaspora shift from a telephone conversation with their parents in Punjabi to writing them letters and cards in Urdu without noticing the obvious change of language from one form of communication to the other. The small cadre of Punjabi activists and writers, who have been struggling against all odds to promote Punjabi language, literature and culture, have so far generally based their case on emotional appeals to save their beloved mother tongue and culture. Unless they fully understand the underlying institutionalized and entrenched power politics of languages in Pakistan, they will have little hope to win many adherents to their worthy cause.
Status of Punjabi in Pakistan
Safir Rammah
Punjabi is the mother tongue of the majority of people in Pakistan. According to 1981 census, the last census for which the figures are available, Punjabi (including Saraiki, Hindko and other variations) is the “commonly spoken in the household” language for 60.43 per cent Pakistanis, followed by Pushto for 13.14 per cent, Sindhi for 11.77 per cent, Urdu for 7.60 per cent and Baluchi for 3.02 per cent. Yet, Punjabi has no official status either in Pakistan or in West Punjab. The medium of teaching in government and private schools in West Punjab is Urdu and, to a lesser extent, English. There is not a single Punjabi medium school in Pakistan, as compared to 36,750 Sindhi medium schools in Sindh and 10,731 Pushto medium schools in the NWFP, per a study in 2001. Except for a very small number of writers and activists, Punjabis are illiterate in their own language – they can neither read nor write Punjabi. The rich tradition of Punjabi literature, going back to the 12th century AD when Baba Farid composed his poetry in a highly developed and sophisticated Punjabi language, has been forgotten. Among the educated classes of Punjabis, instead of pride and affection, contempt and shame for their culture and language is commonly observed.
A closer study of this unique social phenomena of systematic and deliberate denial of their own ethnic identity by West Punjabis, as highlighted by their rejection of Punjabi language, provides many insights into the dynamics of search for an identity by various ethnic and religious groups in the subcontinent during and after the British colonial period and the way power structure has evolved in Pakistan.
The Lack of British Patronization: Prior to the annexation of Punjab by the British in 1849, Punjabi language had developed on the same course followed by most other regional languages in India. Throughout the period of Muslim dominance of India, Persian was the official language of Delhi durbar for conducting the official business until it was officially replaced by English in 1837. The language policies of British Government provided the catalyst for a number of local languages to flourish and develop into their modern and standardized forms. Prior to the British rule, a large number of local schools were functioning in the Punjab. They can be classified as madrassas (for Arabic and Islamic education), maktabs (for Persian education), Gurmukhi schools (for Punjabi language in Gurmukhi script and Sikh religious studies) and patshalas (Sanskrit schools). In all of these schools, Punjabi was the medium of teaching even though the main purpose was to teach other languages and religious subjects. For a number of years after the British conquest of the Punjab, official circulars and court orders were published in Punjabi. The subject of adopting Urdu or Punjabi as the official vernacular and medium of education in government schools was widely debated among the British officers. A number of them supported Urdu for various reasons, including their fear of resurgence of Sikhs if Punjabi was officially promoted. Most of the low level functionaries in the British governments bureaucracy in the Punjab had come from Urdu speaking areas. They also supported Urdu. Eventually, the British government adopted Urdu for Punjab’s schools and lower courts. Although Punjabi continued to be taught in some private schools in Gurmukhi script to Sikh children, it only served the purpose of religious studies since government employments were available only in Urdu and English. Punjabi missed the boat of British patronization that was the key turning point in the development of other regional languages, e.g., Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Sindhi, etc.
Urdu and the Muslim Identity: During the same time, the Hindi-Urdu controversy had erupted in Northern India where militant Hindu nationalists had begun to identify with Hindi language and the Muslims with Urdu. The fact that the Muslim League had made no inroads in Muslim majority provinces, including Punjab, until a couple of years before Partition and most of its following was in the provinces where Urdu was the spoken language of Muslim minority, helped Urdu to become the official language of Muslim League. The paramount political need to claim a separate identity of Indian Muslims overshadowed all regional sentiments among them. The educated classes of Punjabi Muslims accepted the hegemony of Urdu without any question. A review of Punjabi literature during the first half of 20th century reveals that while during the previous millennium, Muslim writers and poets had dominated Punjabi writings, they were conspicuously absent from the Punjabi literary scene after Urdu medium schools had replaced the traditional local schools in the Punjab. Corresponding to this change in the education system, the golden era of Punjabi Sufi poetry ended with Khwaja Ghulam Farid and Mian Muhammad at the beginning of the 20th century. Sikhs and Hindus wrote most of the Punjabi literature during this period. Punjabi Muslim intellectuals, writers and journalists abandoned their own language and willingly aligned themselves with Urdu as an indispensable requisite of their claim of a separate Muslim identity.
The Post-partition Crisis of Identity: After Partition, the language policy of Pakistan became a tool in the hands of military-civil bureaucracy axis that viewed the promotion of regional cultures and languages as a threat to their centralized power. Soon after independence, many regional movements, demanding a fair share of the state’s resources, had risen in East Bengal, Sindh, Baluchistan and the NWFP against the powerful center that was dominated by Punjabis. To counterbalance these demands for regional autonomy, efforts were made to develop a new national identity for all Pakistanis based on a Pakistani, and later Islamic, ideology and by making Urdu language as the symbol of this national identity. The predominance of Punjabis in civil bureaucracy and armed forces necessitated the complete submergence of Punjabi identity into an all- pervasive Pakistani identity as a political tool to legitimize the rejection of all other regional and linguistic identities. Punjabis were projected as the vanguards of Pakistan’s ideological frontiers. The Bengali Language movement of 1952 and the growing Bengali nationalistic tendencies that eventually led to the separation of Bangladesh from Pakistan, and the growth of regional movements in other provinces, further justified the educated Punjabis’ complacent attitude towards denial of their cultural and linguistic identity. The politics of language in the multi-language Pakistan is the politics of power struggle between a predominantly Punjabi center against various ethnic groups who demand their share in the national resources based on their regional nationalities. The self-serving opinion in the ruling classes of the Punjab since the Partition is to suspect all sentiments in favor of regional cultures in other provinces as anti-Pakistan. In their efforts to legitimize their hold on power and to eradicate the menace of provincialism, they lead by example by disregarding their own cultural and linguistic roots.
Language and Status in Pakistan: Language is an important symbol of status and class differentiation in Pakistan. English, as the official language of Pakistan, is the working language of all high-level government officials. Without knowing English, it is impossible to get lucrative jobs in the civil bureaucracy, military or in the private sector. English is the real language of power in Pakistan, just as it was during British colonial government and as Persian was before that. Learning Urdu is also a pre-requisite for entering the middle and low-level job market in Pakistan. The government runs a class-based discriminatory system of education by providing subsidized English education in state-run educational institutions for the children of power elite whose parents belong to armed forces and other government agencies, while mass education is provided in Urdu, and on a smaller scale, in Sindhi and Pushto. The fees for good private English schools are out of reach for common Pakistanis. On the one hand this creates a self-perpetuating elite class in Pakistan and on the other hand it makes various languages as class identifiers. English as a symbol of upper class, Urdu of middle and lower middle classes and Punjabi or other regional languages representing the uneducated peasantry and unskilled labor class. This provides a strong incentive for class conscious Punjabis to distance themselves from their language and common culture. The process of gentrification for an educated Punjabi begins with adopting Urdu for all formal usage and is further enhanced by learning to speak English.
In the villages, markets and majority of the rural and urban homes of West Punjab, the use of Punjabi language in conversations is as robust as ever. Most of the market-based popular media, outside the realm of state controlled radio and TV, is in Punjabi. Punjabis have become used to the contradiction of talking and listening in Punjabi while reading and writing in Urdu or English. Even Punjabis living in the Diaspora shift from a telephone conversation with their parents in Punjabi to writing them letters and cards in Urdu without noticing the obvious change of language from one form of communication to the other. The small cadre of Punjabi activists and writers, who have been struggling against all odds to promote Punjabi language, literature and culture, have so far generally based their case on emotional appeals to save their beloved mother tongue and culture. Unless they fully understand the underlying institutionalized and entrenched power politics of languages in Pakistan, they will have little hope to win many adherents to their worthy cause.
#80 Posted by JayJay on July 11, 2003 7:23:24 am
http://www.apnaorg.com/articles/aziznation.html
In Support of Punjabi Language
Aziz-ud-Din Ahmad
[The Nation, Lahore - May 24, 2001]
Punjabi language is the largest spoken but the most neglected of the languages in Pakistan. On account of its richness and its large stock of vocabulary, it could have been made an official language in Punjab`s mofussul offices, district courts and the provincial Assembly. This would have provided relief to local people who are not fluent in any other language and have to undergo the inconvenience inherent in expressing themselves through intermediaries and translators. As it is not a medium of instruction at the primary level, children are forced to cram lessons in Urdu or English without fully understanding these, which is harmful for learning. As a proficiency in the language is no qualification for a job, many students do not offer it as an elective subject at the college level. Neglecting one`s cultural heritage, of which the mother tongue is a vital component, deprives a community of a most valuable source of spiritual sustenance without which no creative activity can be undertaken whether in the realm of arts or sciences. Further, the neglect erodes the community`s confidence in its ability to perform. By bringing up a generation ignorant of its language a community gradually loses its roots.
Providing government patronage to Punjabi would have in no way harmed Urdu which enjoys the status of a national language and is bound to continue as a lingua franca throughout the country. It would have in fact enriched Urdu. Starting from the beginning of the 20th Century, writers belonging to Punjab have added vitality to the Urdu language by introducing in it local vocabulary and turns of speech. The Urdu purists who disapproved of the activity have in fact done disservice to it by standing in the way of its becoming a more widely understood language.
Fears are often expressed that the propagation of Punjabi might weaken the basis of the Pakistani nationhood. There are those who think that as the language is spoken in the Indian Punjab also, any emphasis on the commonality of language could give birth to the thinking that borders between the two countries are irrelevant. Anyone who has studied the question thoroughly will question the argument.
There is no denying the fact that the existence of a common language serves as a bond between Punjabis all over the world. It is not unnatural for them to spontaneously start communicating in their mother tongue when they meet anywhere even ignoring the presence of others who may not understand the language. This is by no means unusual and is in fact a universal phenomenon. The English speaking communities in Great Britain, North America and Australia have always felt nearer to one another than to the French, Germans or Italians. But this has not weakened their national loyalties or their international relations in the least. Similarly, despite all the sense of solidarity permeating the Arabic speaking communities, it has in no way affected their respective national bonds nor for that matter eliminated political rivalries between their governments. All the linguistic and cultural affinities between Bangladesh and West Bengal have similarly not stopped the former from continuously strengthening its national identity. In all these cases, people of each country have developed political, social and economic linkages over years which have in turn given birth to a sense of particularity. They have developed certain commonalties which they do not share with those speaking their language in other countries. This has strengthened the already existing national boundaries. Similarly, people belonging to various provinces in Pakistan have developed numerous social, political and economic linkages which act as a strong binding factor. Despite numerous complaints which occasionally surface and which are not unusual in federations, these linkages have become so strong that the provinces may not remain viable without one another.
In federations secessionist tendencies develop only in provinces which suffer from a sense of prolonged deprivation. This has never been the case with Punjab which is not only the biggest but also the most prosperous province in Pakistan. While all federal units have gained from the creation of the new country in various degrees, Punjab has been the greatest beneficiary among them. Its prosperity is dependent on its continuing to strengthen the federation. It receives from other provinces the bulk of the gas and electric power which keeps its factories running, sustains its agriculture and keeps its households warm in winter and cool in summer. Being a landlocked province, it depends on the port city of Karachi for imports and exports. Its business community has invested in all the provinces and its professionals and workers are spread all over the country. No reasonable man in Punjab belonging to any section of society would therefore go for a bigger Punjab at the cost of a united Pakistan which has given him all that he possesses. Opting for a bigger Punjab does not suit those living in East Punjab either, as they belong to the most developed and prosperous state of the Indian Union.
The desire on the part of the Punjabis to preserve and develop their language must not therefore be taken as something subversive. Punjab has a rich literary tradition and a vibrant language. The concern to transfer the heritage to the coming generations therefore is quite understandable. This brings together Punjabis not only from India and Pakistan but also from
other countries.
There are bound to be all types of elements in the ranks of those who want to preserve and popularize the Punjabi language. Here and there one may meet a racist dreaming about the revival of a Punjabi empire or somebody who would like India and Pakistan to become one again. But these are freaks who hope to turn back the irreversible wheels of history. The majority of the people involved in the holding of international Punjabi moots are those who believe in the sanctity of national borders, while they are at the same time genuinely concerned about the preservation of the Punjabi language and cultural heritage.
#79 Posted by harimau on July 11, 2003 7:23:23 am
Ref UmerMurtaza #73
[In UK, every Punjabi speaks Punjabi, irrespective of your origin. Yes, Urdu is considered more sophisticated because well…er, it is more sophisticated.]
Urdu: Derived from `horde` meaning army camp. Urdu is considered the rough and ready language of the army camp, a language that used (and still uses) words from several languages mixed together so that the soldiers normally speaking different languages can have a common language at the camp.
This language is considered more sophisticated than Punjabi? I don`t know if that is an insult to Punjabi or a symptom of the great inferiority complex of the Urdu speakers.
[In UK, every Punjabi speaks Punjabi, irrespective of your origin. Yes, Urdu is considered more sophisticated because well…er, it is more sophisticated.]
Urdu: Derived from `horde` meaning army camp. Urdu is considered the rough and ready language of the army camp, a language that used (and still uses) words from several languages mixed together so that the soldiers normally speaking different languages can have a common language at the camp.
This language is considered more sophisticated than Punjabi? I don`t know if that is an insult to Punjabi or a symptom of the great inferiority complex of the Urdu speakers.
#78 Posted by er on July 10, 2003 10:42:20 pm
interesting to note how lahoris (Lhauris)...and karachities get into these mindless debates...even on this chowk platform......its only but natural for anyone to grow up in his city or environment with a natrual inclination for it....whether the sleepy pace of lahore or the uptown buzz of karachi....to each his own :)
#77 Posted by SameerJB on July 10, 2003 9:32:56 pm
tahmed32:
Yes, too much has been made of the ``language issue`` over the past 50 years within the context of local politics for understandable reasons. The necessity must dictate the choice of language and not sponsorship of one at the expense of other for no reason. There is no necessity for 130 million people anywhere in the world to be forced to adopt overtly as in Pakistan and covertly as in India to a language of 450 million people. Neither of these languages are scientific or technical to provide an edge for any speaker in market place. These languages are not going to invent 35-40 million new words just to name all the chemicals in the world. This is just as example.
But when Panjabi samachar from All India Radio Panjabi service become unintelligible to P-Panjabis and Panjabi khabraN from Radio Pakistan, Lahore become incomprehensible to I-Panjabis, despite ethno-linguistic kinship, and yet no understanding problem talking face to face with each other in New york or any other place, makes one wonder the motives behind such a difference at states` controled media. One wonders why does Pakistani media loves to Persianize and Arabize Panjabi as much as possible and why does Kendria Hindi Sansthan, a Union Public Service Commission subsidiary, dictates ``appropriate`` Sanskrit or Hindi words to All India Radio Panjabi Samachar and culture ministry of I-Panjab.
So talking about the importance of English in diaspora and to some extent back home is one thing, discussing language politics back in subcontinent is altogether different matter . The national governments never stop interfering in the local issues that can be dealt naturally out of necessity as has been the case for millenia.
[The conclusion drawn in the following segment of this post is just my gut feelings. I have heard and read some rudimentary evidence like ISI and intelligence communities attending some of these conferences - particularly one held at Nankana Sahib under a bogus organization named Muslim-Sikh Student federation and attended by Khalistani Sikhs and large number of uniformed military officers - but they are not conclusive. So it should be just a hypothesis for now]
You might have noticed in the upsurge of Sufism and sufi poetry with seminars, workshops, musical function, discussions, lectures, conferences and books about Sufism all over P-Panjab. Some people are thinking of this as an alternate to fundamentalism of wahabi-deobandi schools, by the establishment. How come this is localized to Panjab and not in NWFP and Sindh with many great sufi-poets? The terms Sufism and great Sufi-poets are thrown arbitrarily as if both are same thing. A good mullah does not make mullahism good and there are many good wahabi and deobandi mullahs. However, the current surge in Sufism marketing is due to the necessity of neutralizing liberal and secular Panjabis who got great boost from media advances, freedom to interact and World Panjabi Conferences during last 5-6 years. The Muslims, Sikhs and Hindu literati started mixing each other and many Panjabi Muslims started reading Panjabi literature by non-Muslims Panjabis. Tauba, tauba, Pakistan ideology was in danger. Something had to be done to keep Muslims away from reading non-Muslims` literature (never mind most of the Englsih language literature is also by non-Musims). Well, Sufism and great sufi-poets literature came in handy and is re-marketed as the favored literature for Panjabi Muslims - to keep them away from kafir Panjabi literature. Sufism and Sufi-poetry is forwarded as the preferred or possibly only literature (of course, Panjabi prose is missing from Sufi literature and prose by non-Sufi Mulims like Najam Hussein Syed, Shafqat Tanveer Mirza, Fakhr Zaman, Maqsood Saqib and many others is getting no backing or attention) to Panjabiat lovers - if they can`t live without Panjabi literature - with the full backing of establishment. The result is that WPC is begining to fizzle out since BJP in India also came out against it. This has happened before. A small Panjabi literary society was banned by Ayub Khan for being too dangerous to state ideology. Establishment is always ready to deal with native languages sponsored terrorism than any other kind of jihadi terrorism.
Nobody, definitely not me, would argue about the beauty of classical Panjabi Sufi poetry but it is too little. All of it can be printed in one 1000 page book with most of the memorable poetry belongs to Bulley Shah, Shah Hussein, Waris Shah and Ghulam Farid. Whatever memorable from Mian Mohammad Bakhsh poetry was, was presented by rozaiba in couple of posts recently. I bet there are people in the establishment who are looking forward to adding this issue into Strategic Depth initiatives also, like fundamentalism and Taliban creation. Panjabi is the only language besides Bengali whose literature is divided between different religions and with partition, the literature batwara is deemed essential too by the masters of desi destinies. Funny! they see no danger from Hindi movies and songs.
The poltics of languages in northern subcontinent is as dirty as any other pissing matches often witnessed at chowk.
Yes, too much has been made of the ``language issue`` over the past 50 years within the context of local politics for understandable reasons. The necessity must dictate the choice of language and not sponsorship of one at the expense of other for no reason. There is no necessity for 130 million people anywhere in the world to be forced to adopt overtly as in Pakistan and covertly as in India to a language of 450 million people. Neither of these languages are scientific or technical to provide an edge for any speaker in market place. These languages are not going to invent 35-40 million new words just to name all the chemicals in the world. This is just as example.
But when Panjabi samachar from All India Radio Panjabi service become unintelligible to P-Panjabis and Panjabi khabraN from Radio Pakistan, Lahore become incomprehensible to I-Panjabis, despite ethno-linguistic kinship, and yet no understanding problem talking face to face with each other in New york or any other place, makes one wonder the motives behind such a difference at states` controled media. One wonders why does Pakistani media loves to Persianize and Arabize Panjabi as much as possible and why does Kendria Hindi Sansthan, a Union Public Service Commission subsidiary, dictates ``appropriate`` Sanskrit or Hindi words to All India Radio Panjabi Samachar and culture ministry of I-Panjab.
So talking about the importance of English in diaspora and to some extent back home is one thing, discussing language politics back in subcontinent is altogether different matter . The national governments never stop interfering in the local issues that can be dealt naturally out of necessity as has been the case for millenia.
[The conclusion drawn in the following segment of this post is just my gut feelings. I have heard and read some rudimentary evidence like ISI and intelligence communities attending some of these conferences - particularly one held at Nankana Sahib under a bogus organization named Muslim-Sikh Student federation and attended by Khalistani Sikhs and large number of uniformed military officers - but they are not conclusive. So it should be just a hypothesis for now]
You might have noticed in the upsurge of Sufism and sufi poetry with seminars, workshops, musical function, discussions, lectures, conferences and books about Sufism all over P-Panjab. Some people are thinking of this as an alternate to fundamentalism of wahabi-deobandi schools, by the establishment. How come this is localized to Panjab and not in NWFP and Sindh with many great sufi-poets? The terms Sufism and great Sufi-poets are thrown arbitrarily as if both are same thing. A good mullah does not make mullahism good and there are many good wahabi and deobandi mullahs. However, the current surge in Sufism marketing is due to the necessity of neutralizing liberal and secular Panjabis who got great boost from media advances, freedom to interact and World Panjabi Conferences during last 5-6 years. The Muslims, Sikhs and Hindu literati started mixing each other and many Panjabi Muslims started reading Panjabi literature by non-Muslims Panjabis. Tauba, tauba, Pakistan ideology was in danger. Something had to be done to keep Muslims away from reading non-Muslims` literature (never mind most of the Englsih language literature is also by non-Musims). Well, Sufism and great sufi-poets literature came in handy and is re-marketed as the favored literature for Panjabi Muslims - to keep them away from kafir Panjabi literature. Sufism and Sufi-poetry is forwarded as the preferred or possibly only literature (of course, Panjabi prose is missing from Sufi literature and prose by non-Sufi Mulims like Najam Hussein Syed, Shafqat Tanveer Mirza, Fakhr Zaman, Maqsood Saqib and many others is getting no backing or attention) to Panjabiat lovers - if they can`t live without Panjabi literature - with the full backing of establishment. The result is that WPC is begining to fizzle out since BJP in India also came out against it. This has happened before. A small Panjabi literary society was banned by Ayub Khan for being too dangerous to state ideology. Establishment is always ready to deal with native languages sponsored terrorism than any other kind of jihadi terrorism.
Nobody, definitely not me, would argue about the beauty of classical Panjabi Sufi poetry but it is too little. All of it can be printed in one 1000 page book with most of the memorable poetry belongs to Bulley Shah, Shah Hussein, Waris Shah and Ghulam Farid. Whatever memorable from Mian Mohammad Bakhsh poetry was, was presented by rozaiba in couple of posts recently. I bet there are people in the establishment who are looking forward to adding this issue into Strategic Depth initiatives also, like fundamentalism and Taliban creation. Panjabi is the only language besides Bengali whose literature is divided between different religions and with partition, the literature batwara is deemed essential too by the masters of desi destinies. Funny! they see no danger from Hindi movies and songs.
The poltics of languages in northern subcontinent is as dirty as any other pissing matches often witnessed at chowk.
#76 Posted by tahmed32 on July 10, 2003 4:36:23 pm
sameerjb: From a practical perspective, a language is a merely a means of communication. Far too much has been made of the ``language issue`` over the past 50 years. In future, everyone will speak the same language. And that language will be english.
Today there are only two kinds of people in the world - those who know english (and thus have the global labor market open to them) and those who wish they knew how to speak english. This was not the case even thirty years ago when third world demagogues talked grandly about socialism and language. So, it feels good to speak in panjabi, the practical value of this ``language skill`` is rapidly shrinking - the PRACTICAL value is limited to speaking with those who cant speak any other language. And even in those cases money talks a language that everyone understands anyway.
Today there are only two kinds of people in the world - those who know english (and thus have the global labor market open to them) and those who wish they knew how to speak english. This was not the case even thirty years ago when third world demagogues talked grandly about socialism and language. So, it feels good to speak in panjabi, the practical value of this ``language skill`` is rapidly shrinking - the PRACTICAL value is limited to speaking with those who cant speak any other language. And even in those cases money talks a language that everyone understands anyway.
#75 Posted by SameerJB on July 10, 2003 12:21:44 pm
Umer M #73:
Interesting thoughts.
[The real difference between myself and my eastern friend is that he is `proud` and (unless Punjabiat becomes functional and of use to me) I don’t really care. Complex has nothing to do with it.]
You can say the same for not just Panjabiat or Panjabism but also of Islamiat, Pakistaniat, Indiaism, Kashmir, Hindusim and so on. They are not functional and of no use for diaspora. Our livelihood depends on English, work and skills; social life is subjective and can exclude all of the above -isms and -iats. The freedom of choice exists in all matters for us as long as there is nothing unlawful.
People strike a balance between ethnicity, nationality and religion for identity. Some factor in more of one than others. In dispora, for people who are determined to live out thier entire lives there, motherland or ancestral nationality means least if it is not the same as ethnicity. Out of remaining two, one group gives more importance to religion and another more to ethnicity if they both are not complemeting each other. Religion is non-functional for me just as panjabiat is not functional for you. Glad to have freedom of choice!!!
Then there are hobbies. Urdu poetry is my hobby though no use for me in practical life. While disagreeing with you about any language sophisticated or unsophisticated, Panjabi will survive in diaspora because of sikh religion just as Arabic has survived and will continue to survive because of Islam. English was not very long ago considered unsophisticated by the British monarchy and French sophisticated but something happend to English that changed that impression. People started taking pride in speaking it and writing in it.
Interesting thoughts.
[The real difference between myself and my eastern friend is that he is `proud` and (unless Punjabiat becomes functional and of use to me) I don’t really care. Complex has nothing to do with it.]
You can say the same for not just Panjabiat or Panjabism but also of Islamiat, Pakistaniat, Indiaism, Kashmir, Hindusim and so on. They are not functional and of no use for diaspora. Our livelihood depends on English, work and skills; social life is subjective and can exclude all of the above -isms and -iats. The freedom of choice exists in all matters for us as long as there is nothing unlawful.
People strike a balance between ethnicity, nationality and religion for identity. Some factor in more of one than others. In dispora, for people who are determined to live out thier entire lives there, motherland or ancestral nationality means least if it is not the same as ethnicity. Out of remaining two, one group gives more importance to religion and another more to ethnicity if they both are not complemeting each other. Religion is non-functional for me just as panjabiat is not functional for you. Glad to have freedom of choice!!!
Then there are hobbies. Urdu poetry is my hobby though no use for me in practical life. While disagreeing with you about any language sophisticated or unsophisticated, Panjabi will survive in diaspora because of sikh religion just as Arabic has survived and will continue to survive because of Islam. English was not very long ago considered unsophisticated by the British monarchy and French sophisticated but something happend to English that changed that impression. People started taking pride in speaking it and writing in it.
#74 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on July 10, 2003 8:59:56 am
Umer # 73
You are right. For Sikhs, Punjab is everything including religion.
But for people like me, who are very fuzzy about religion, at the end of the day - It is your own language, your own people and your own soil that comforts you - no matter how nasty, poor, backword, hot. (However, do not mind spending short periods abroad)
A punjabi from any religion would be good for me.
I spent three years in Middle East - do not like the Arabs and vowed never to go to Saudi Arabia again in my life.
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