Terrorism, Sectarianism and the Military

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I think one needs to keep things in perspective and rely on facts, not emotions when discussing any issue, be it the military or India or politicians or terrorism. Following is a report based on research done by Davos, the International Forum in Switzerland, on where different countries rank their various institutions. I think it should serve as a good criteria on what the Pakistanis think about the military, the politicians, the secterian killings.

http://www.weforum.org/site/homepublic.nsf/Content/Annual+Meeting+2003%5CResults+of+the+Survey+on+Trust#1

The last paragraph is interesting. The list of highest respected militaries in the world amongst their populations includes India, Israel, USA, and (not to my surprise, but probably to the surprise of many on this site) Pakistan.

This has been proven again and again by surveys taken by Herald Magazine in Pakistan, also. The military always ends up being on the top of the list of most respected institutions in Pakistan.

My own experience has been similar. I think people on Chowk are only exposed to one or two Generals and are unaware of the 99.999% of the rest of the military. I would say the Pakistan jawan and Pakistan officer in the fighting ranks (upto Colonel) are extremely well respected across the spectrum. You will never hear anyone (be it feudal, mullah, beaurecrat, journalist, men, women, shopkeeper, secularist, religionist etc.) criticize this group. From BB to Musharraf to Nawaz (his daughter married a Captain) to Qazi to anyone (except maybe Altaf Hussain), everyone speaks highly of this group. I belonged to this group, and can vouch first hand that I received a lot more trust and respect amongst the Pakistani common guy (juice wallah, bus wallah) then I do now as a much wealthier ex-patriate. I used to have running tabs with shops, fifteen miles away, from home, while in NWFP, just on the basis of my word. I doubt they would trust me now that I am a civilian. A Pushto speaking 25 year old military officer is one of the highest respected persons walking the streets of NWFP (and other areas). The only group that I get more recognition from now are the elitist, wealthy, or ex-pat Pakistanis.

The Generals are a different story. I would say the PAF and Navy Generals are still respected. Since the PAF and Navy, as tradiiton, never get involved in any Martial Law. They are not in this one either, though, they get asked everytime. The Army Generals, as a group, are not respected. Nor should they be. I have little respect for them. I would rank them as one of the problems, not only for Pakistan, but for the military itself. In order of negatives, for Pakistan, from highest to lowest, I would say: 1) Feudals 2) Mullahs 3) Army Generals 4) Beaurecrats 5) Corrupt Businessmen.

Professinally, the Pakistni soldier is as good and brave and patriotic as any in the world (an assumption, since I have only trained a bit with Americans and Arabs, but not with anyone else). I would trust my life to him, and have done so. The Pakistani PAF and Navy Generals are average, i.e. good enough. The Pakistani Army Generals are professionally weak, too indoctrinated and too sure of their capabilities. This last group is the achilles heel of the Pakistani military. However, they risked their lives for their countries when young and they are still patriotic, and I cannot imagine them organizing killings in the Quetta mosque. If for no other reason, then because many of them are themselves Shias. And the military itself has no sectarian or ethnic problems. It is perhaps the only truly religiously and ethnically integrated institution in the country.

THE DAVOS REPORT:

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``The World Economic Forum unveiled (7 November 2002) a major global public opinion survey that suggests that trust in many key institutions has fallen to critical proportions. The Voice of the People survey of 36,000 people conducted by Gallup International and Environics International reveals that ``trust`` will be one of the major issues in 2003. The results disclose a dramatic lack of trust in democratic institutions and global and large national companies; and trust is even low when it comes to non-governmental organizations (NGOs), trade unions and media organizations around the world.

Findings

Detailed findings from this independent, non-commissioned research conducted by respected survey research institutes in each country, include:

Around the world, the principal democratic institution in each country (i.e., parliament, congress, etc.) is the least trusted of the 17 institutions tested, including global companies.
Fully two-thirds of those surveyed worldwide disagree that their country is ``governed by the will of the people.``
Citizens have as much trust in the media and in trade unions as they have in their national (mostly elected) governments.
Perhaps because of the security / anti-terrorism role currently played by the armed forces, they are the most trusted institution of those tested.
Non-governmental organizations (NGOs) including environmental and social advocacy groups enjoy the second highest trust ratings in the survey.
Citizens also express relatively high levels of trust in the United Nations, even in America, putting the UN at the same high level as religious groups and churches.
Global companies and large domestic companies are equally distrusted to operate in the best interest of society, ranking next to national legislative bodies at the bottom of the trust ratings.
The World Trade Organization (WTO), World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF) have almost as many people distrusting them as trusting them to operate in society`s best interests. Of these three, the WTO is slightly more trusted.

Most Trusted Institutions

Given the very low trust expressed in democratic institutions, it may be alarming to some that the armed forces are ranked highest overall. However, very high ratings in countries currently in state of heightened alert (including India, Israel, Pakistan and the United States) contribute to the high scores. The two regions with the least trust in the armed forces today are Latin America and Africa, both regions that have experienced military rule and civil wars in their recent history.``

``Seven Pillars of Wisdom``

it is rather ironic that 83 years ago it was Colonel T. E. Lawrence — Lawrence of Arabia — who taught the weak Iraqi Arabs (that includes now his newest pupil Saddam Hussein) a new way of wrafare against a vastly superior Turkish army --


Britain Tried First. Iraq Was No Picnic Then.
By JOHN KIFNER

`` his guerrilla tactics are still much studied. He came to realize that when a small band faced more powerful conventional forces, its strength lay in avoiding direct battles and instead conducting stealthy raids.

His own guerrilla force, he wrote in his memoir, ``Seven Pillars of Wisdom,`` had ``a sophisticated alien enemy, disposed as an army of occupation in an area greater than could be dominated effectively from fortified posts.

It had a friendly population, in which some 2 in the 100 were active, and the rest quietly sympathetic to the point of not betraying the movements of the minority.`` (TELawrence)

``That larger army could be demoralized and worn down, its patrols and sentries made nervous and drawn, waiting for the next attack and never sure from where it would come.``(TELawrence)

It is a feeling the weary soldiers of the Third Infantry Division are coming to know well.(NYT)

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``Seven Pillars of Wisdom`` -- well, even seven thousand pillars of wisdom would do no good to our Texas Tarzan from Tarzana Texas....

ahmadzai:

strange coincidence. my grandfather was an indian nationalist of the highest order and anti-pakistan to such and extent that he refused to speak to my father after my father decided to leave calcutta for dhaka in mid sixties. my dad made this move knowing about five people in pak and having about five hundred rupees to his name. and my dad knew even less people in karachi when he moved there before fall of dhaka. so while my family is essentially foreigners in pak (my mother was also born in dhaka), we have never been made to feel unwelcome. my parents circle of friends includes people from all over the sub-continent and i have been all over pak and without ever feeling like an outsider. most importantly however, my dad was able to give us a lifestyle available to very few people in the world. and there are plenty of other people who share the same experience. last year pakis remitted about four billion dollars bank home (pak second biggest export earner after textiles is expats). imagine how much money would these people have to earn to be able to send home that kind of money. and how many of these people were able to take advantage of essentially free university education at quality places like dow and ned?

but while there have been success stories; there are also failures on a very, very large scale. this discussion i leave for another day.

Hari,

What, are you saying that India should be training jehadis to fight in Xinjiang? Oddly, the training of some anti-government forces in Pakistan who were captured in Xinjiang caused quite a bit of friction some time back betwixt China and Pakistan. And clarify something here... was Xinjiang part of the territory that India claims? I never knew that.

Perhaps you could give me a head count of how many refugees ARE in Pakistan, from IOK. Let me guess... none? And no doubt, any who are in Pakistan are there because they are at heart jehadi types and just couldnt take the dynamic, secular environment that being part of India brought to Kashmir.

By the sounds of it, you deny any role India had in arming, training and organizing the Mukti Bahini once the Pakistan Army had driven them out of East Pakistan. So be it. Suddenly, I feel your grasp of history is a lot weaker than I thought it was. Mind you, if rape of women and killing of menfolk is an issue, I would have thought them there Kashmiris would be able to organize a guerilla army on their own. History is, of course, replete with the stories of guerilla armies that thrived without external support.

So the Tigers ship their equipment in from Canada? Thats a long distance.

And the CIA had bases in India without any Indian support. K.

But you were right about one thing.. wasn`t communists. Sissen and Rose point out that it was anti-government forces that struck Nepal in the 50s and 60s from bases in India (again, no doubt the Indian government had no idea that they were there), not that it was communists.

And, of course, we finish with the snide comment of mosques, deportation etc. Tsk, tsk.

Faisal @ # 128:

Although my parents (the Surkhposh of yesteryears, followers of the Great Batcha Khan) sided with Mahatama Gandhi (may God keep their souls in peace) during the independence movement, I tend to agree with you.

The real disappointment has been that the world`s leading economists, managers, IT specialists, the products of the most liberal educational system in the world, the graduates of IITs and IIMs, the best performing ethnic groups in the UK and the USA, i.e. our erstwhile Indian friends, appear to match the language spoken by us, the denizens of most ``under-developed and most roguest of state`` at their best and language spoken in the dark alleys of Lahori and Bombay underground world at their worst. This convinces me that in the days to come, Pakistan will be much better off improving things economically, socially and militarily at home without confronting India head on. This breed of people (scientific name: Homoindica-extremeofanatica-ITsuccesskabubbleburstica), the newly found saviours of the USA/UK/Israel, is fully competent to lead themselves and their friends to implosion and explosion through their sheer arrogance alone. Their other qualities may hasten the process.

Btw, for some of my last posts I have been exchanging views with Mr. Hassan Nasir. I hope he comes back for continued exchanges.

To that Dimwit Texas MONGOL and his halfwit Jamaican Waterboy:

the following are the MEDICATIONS to TREAT the COLONIAL -- CEREBRAL FEVER.....

that has been burning the already shrunken brain of our Texas Cowboy -- and is about to burn to ashes -- OUR pocketbooks -- AS WELL...


GIVE BACK -- HAND OVER -- our two COLONYS -- Iraq and Afghanistan -- to THE UNITED NATIONS

no more playing Badshah Bush and Queen Colin on Iraq. --

we CANNOT afford playing Colonial Masters of third world countries -- in 2003 --

neither WE have that much MONEY -- nor Bushs`s DAD has that much money -- to squander on Mongoloid Conquests

GET OUT of Iraq --

BRING BACK OUR KIDS FROM IRAQ --

give the boot to our good-for-nothing Viceroy Bremer -- and ship that Zionist WOLF called Wolfowitzy to an Israeli Zoo

MAKE KOFI ANAN the KING of I RAAQ --

THEN -- ASK AND PAY -- India and Pakistan to send FIVE divisions each to help KING KOFI return the country to its owneres -- the People of Iraq

but not before -- OUR BOYS ARE BACK HOME --

ahmadzai and romair:

a little history lesson here plus a little shikwa. our elders (who were way smarter than us) created pak out of thin air so that we could avoid dealing with creatures that reside in chowk’s naali. by encouraging these creatures to come out, you guys here are dishonoring the sacrifices of our elders. your time here is better spent exposing the shenanigans of those pakis who are looking to pull a mir jaffer again.

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rshridhar #107
dost-mittar #113

Many thanks for replying to Romair..I agree 100% with your observations & could`nt have said it better, myself...

I`m beginning to suspect that Romair is the ``benevolent/political`` arm of the Kashmir ``freedom mvt``--I think he`s the ``official`` spokesman for their cause--like the Sein Fenn to the IRA.
heheh...call me crazy; but I think he`s moved his ``base of operations`` to Canada cos he was..er..feeling a lot of ...uh...heat... from the FBI:))!!

If I have time today, I will give a more detailed reply to Romair`s post #111

CULTURE OF DEFEAT. fOLLOWING IS FROM DAWN OF TODAY WHERE THE PAK ARMY, having experienced only defeats has a history of honoring those who delivered it. This is the fundamental idea of pak military, it is a paer tiger to the foreigners, but a tiger to its own people.
Only a defeta of the pak army, as in the case of irq is the only hope for the porr people of pakistan.

temporarily removed from command but later promoted as Lieutenant-General. Afterwards he was posted to Turkey on a lucrative appointment. A corps commander bungled the operation in 90/91 in Siachen. The casualties were very high, including that of a promising brigadier. He survived unscathed. He pretended that he didn`t know about the operation.

In 1971 two brigadiers took massive beating from the enemy in Rahimyar Khan-Reti Sector, their battalions virtually broke but afterwards both were rewarded; one rose to become a lieutenant general and the other was made a joint secretary in the cabinet division. And who can forget the great general who left his troops in the forward defended localities in Chandpur (East Pakistan) Sector while the battle was still raging, fled to Burma by a helicopter after off-loading a nurse? Back in Pakistan being a good friend of Gul Hasan, he became chief of the general staff and on retirement was well looked after. The irony is that Niazi was never court-martialled, why should others be?

LT-COL (RETD) SAFIR A. SIDDIQUI

Karachi

hnasir at # 85:

Red Alert: Looooooooooong response.

You wrote:
``Would you like to kindly help me by telling that where in my article did you find that I was critical of Pakistan as a nation state or where did I was unthankful to the country? I wrote there and reiterate here that Pakistan would have been far better place to live in had not our top brass destroyed it altogether for its own myopic, personal interests.``

My response:
Although every one would agree with you, the point of disagreement was your emotional and sentimental take that Shi`as are being killed and all the wrongs are happening in the country under Government`s patronage. Please note that I am not alone in highlighting your emotional bearings. Several other posters have pointed out the same. Kindly read the posts from His Excellency, Ijaz Gul and Romair. Your article, although well written, unfortunately tows the line that Indians carry amost everywhere in the media.

You asked:
``The bloody sanads of these formally and informally semi-literate mullahs were declared equivalent to BA on the behest of whom?``

My response to Romair on a similar concern some time ago was that Musharraf could not have taken religious extremist parties (The Kharjis of today i.e. sectarian terrorists), corrupt PPP and PML N, feudal landlords, Mullas, Indians all at the same time while striving to bring stability in Pakistan. Talibans enjoyed genuine support amongst the Pakhtoons of Afghanistan, the NWFP and Balochistan. Moderate Pakhtoons were so much marginalized that our two former Mujahideen commanders (the two well known brothers of Ahmadzai tribe) were martyred by religious zealots without any whimper in the media. Keeping Mullas away would have been catastrophic in that two of our provinces would have been marginalized.

You asked:

``Notorious Tariq Azam was not only allowed to contest elections, he is pandered by whom and why?``

He was set free by the Courts for lack of evidence. He won because of his own popularity in his district. Syeda Abida Hussain, his main rival, admits his popularity. However, note that Sharon the killer of Sabra and Shatilla is now ruling Israel and Advani and Joshi the destroyers of a symbol of secularism in India are in power in India, because they have been voted into power by the people under democracy. Seems interesting right?

You asked:

``Who is the prime beneficiary if there is a barking bunch of beards to show the US that he is the last bulwark against Jehadis and nukes falling in the hands of Taliban?``

Pakistan and Pakistanis are the prime beneficiary if you are hinting at a blackmailing strategy. If the West can hold all the Muslims of the world accountable for the evil deeds of the few rascals (9/11 and other terrorist attacks) and US only doles out a meager amount in aid with many strings attached (read todays editorial in News - ``Pak-US deja vu`), then we have to form a counter strategy. The world has to keep Pakistan stable and prosper as a role model of a Muslim state by keeping Jihadis at bay. Alternatively, they can try to disintegrate and weaken Pakistan by first letting the instability come to Afghanistan and Pakhtoon belt of Pakistan, then to rest of Pakistan and eventually to India. So for the West, it is a choice between (1) a developed Pakistan along side a developed India or (2) a total destruction in the region.

My prediction however, is that the West will not help Afghanistan and Pakistan develop, because I believe they are not sincere towards the Muslims. But people like Musharraf and us can only try our best from our position of weakness. In the next 10 to 15 year time, the whole Central Asia, South Asia and the Middle East will be in total turmoil. This would be in accordance with the prophesies of the Holy Prophet too. More on this later.

Continued...

hnasir at # 85:

Continued from previous post.

``Who created MQM?``

The credit goes to Zia, so do the people claim.

``Who declared them then anti-state, Indian agents? ``

As His Excellency has pointed out, the credit goes to PPP. Military had clearly advised BB and Naseer Babar against this course of action. A former core commander of Karachi viz General Asif Nawaz Bajwa had actually run into a collision course with BB on this matter. All of this is documented.

``Who engineered split in it?``

It is well documented that the more violent Bihari faction broke away from the mainstream MQM. The split was due to internal differences, hence the wall posters ``MQM kay Ghadaron ka yahan Dakhila mamnoo hay``. Yes, it is also understood that the difference was exploited by the successive elected Governments and must have been exploited by the military also.

``How did they become clean patriot overnight? ``

MQM were clean to begin with from Military point of view. Only Altaf Hussain and some of his cronies now living in exile will face court if they ever attempted to return. Also, had MMA acted more intelligently and formed a coalition with leading moderates in power now, Pakistan would have been much better off. Islam as a religion would have been better off too had the MMA Mullas propagated a better picture of Islam. Since MMA has Mullas and not Ulemas, they took the current path that will eventually lead either to their dissipation or overwhelming popularity depending on how Pakistan is treated by the West.

``Yes, Mullahs are protesting against Musharraf, you know why. Military has yet to learn about the dynamics of politics. Monster is trying to eat the creator. Nothing more than that. ``

As some body (probably His Excellency) has pointed out, this is not a singular event. Some times strategy fails. At other times a strategy backfires. Americans trained and aided `Mujahideens` to fight against Russians, many of whom turned against them. This does not prove that the American strategy was wrong. There would always be a few disappointments. Also recall that American strategy of supporting Contras in Central America had backfired too.

``Who is Musharraf? What mandate he has? If he was (or is) so popular than why the hell he didn’t get more than 5 % of votes during the referendum despite spending billions from public exchequer and abusing government machinery. ``

You have a point there. But do note that the flawed referendum was publicly acknowledged by Musharraf. Now tell me how many Pakistani leaders we know who have admitted mistakes? Also, do note that parties backing him won most percentage of votes in the elections. Despite PPP claims that it won the most votes (25%), on overall basis all the parties supporting Musharraf`s agenda put together obtained most votes (PML Q 24% + MQM 8% + NDA 3%, etc.). The coalition with most votes has the right to rule. In addition, see the economic performance as highlighted by major indicators.

``Ok, he is very nice man. What will happen after him, when he will eventually be vaporised? Who will take over after him? How long will we as a nation depend on one-man show? Is any viable system in offing?``

Again you have a point here. Let us hope that the General and his support parties continues for a while, capitalizing on the stability through the economic gains. The objective remains Making Pakistan, a modern Islamic Republic that becomes economic, social and military role model for all the world.

From the current trend, I see that moderates will become stronger. However, as mentioned above, I have my doubts due to my religious beliefs especially vis-a-vis the prophesies of our Holy Prophet regarding the region.

Other than the religious part, I gathered from talking to leading politicians in Karachi that Musharraf will probably shed the uniform by December 2005, by which time he will have gotten himself elected as a President. The current Government will complete its term. PML N, PPP and smaller parties in the opposition will almost disappear. In future, the electoral clash will be between moderates (having economic performance as their card) and Islamists (having religious emotionalism under the West`s raw deal to the Muslims as their card).

Again, my prediction is that if the West does not help the region wholeheartedly and sincerely, Islamists will claim ultimate victories in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, which will send the entire region in turmoil. The Indian posters may be cheering now, but they will be cutting a very sorry figure when that time nears. As far as I am concerned though, I will fight against extremism in all its forms till the ultimate result. Reading the posts of several Chowksters of Pakistani origin, I thank Allah (SWT) that I am not alone.

Concludes.

#109 by rsridhar:

``re:#81 by ahmadzai. You seem to miss the point. A British P.M mentioned Kashmir in reference to Islamic terrorism. No western power gives a damn to Paki viewpoint. Nobody believes that the terrorists are freedom fighters.``

Kindly note that UK and USA did not give a damn to the world on Iraq. However, now it is generally believed that their action was wrong, although I am still in favor of their at least removing the tyrant Saddam.

A corollary of the above is that if the world does not give a damn to Pakistan on our stance on Kashmir this does not mean that the stance is wrong. Since we believe that our stance is right in principle, we will stick to it. That is what we are doing. We are making our point of differentiating between terrorists and freedom fighters known at all the fora. This may mean that we change our strategy to developing economically, socially and militarily first before taking the powers that be head on.

:-)