It’s a Miracle
Alka Girdhar July 20, 2003
#60 Posted by Inquirer on August 4, 2003 7:23:06 am
#51, rsridhar:
May be tahmed32 is not ready to participate in the project. We can do our part. My objective was to compare and contrast the practical living guidance that is presented in Tulsi Ramayan and Mahabharat in a concise fashion. What do you think?
May be tahmed32 is not ready to participate in the project. We can do our part. My objective was to compare and contrast the practical living guidance that is presented in Tulsi Ramayan and Mahabharat in a concise fashion. What do you think?
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#59 Posted by Alka on July 30, 2003 5:57:27 pm
Although all the scriptures are sacred but haven’t we been discussing that Ramayana is followed by Hindus a bit more? Others follow Geeta’s philosophy. Some others just love Vedas. Most of us read everything related to our religion and sometimes about other religions too.
So by ‘most accepted scripture’, I wasn’t touching any derogatory or divisive concept of religions. Just an analysis what has been most widely accepted by any particular area of India and why, that was my issue. And as you said, we should study the ‘shared principles’ too so as to `build bridges`
Thanks anyway.
Also, thanks once again to everyone who shared their views via their informative posts
Alka
So by ‘most accepted scripture’, I wasn’t touching any derogatory or divisive concept of religions. Just an analysis what has been most widely accepted by any particular area of India and why, that was my issue. And as you said, we should study the ‘shared principles’ too so as to `build bridges`
Thanks anyway.
Also, thanks once again to everyone who shared their views via their informative posts
Alka
#58 Posted by Alka on July 30, 2003 5:57:27 pm
#57 by Inquirer
Although all the scriptures are sacred but haven’t we been discussing that Ramayana is followed by Hindus a bit more? Others follow Geeta’s philosophy. Some others just love Vedas. Most of us read everything related to our religion and sometimes about other religions too.
So by ‘most accepted scripture’, I wasn’t touching any derogatory or divisive concept of religions. Just an analysis what has been most widely accepted by any particular area of India and why, that was my issue. And as you said, we should study the ‘shared principles’ too so as to `build bridges`
Thanks anyway.
Also, thanks once again to everyone who shared their views via their informative posts
Alka
Although all the scriptures are sacred but haven’t we been discussing that Ramayana is followed by Hindus a bit more? Others follow Geeta’s philosophy. Some others just love Vedas. Most of us read everything related to our religion and sometimes about other religions too.
So by ‘most accepted scripture’, I wasn’t touching any derogatory or divisive concept of religions. Just an analysis what has been most widely accepted by any particular area of India and why, that was my issue. And as you said, we should study the ‘shared principles’ too so as to `build bridges`
Thanks anyway.
Also, thanks once again to everyone who shared their views via their informative posts
Alka
#57 Posted by Inquirer on July 30, 2003 9:09:36 am
#56, sunkight:
I have had several occasions to hear Swami Dayananda Saraswati at Saylorsburg, PA. He is really doing very good work at Gurukulam. He is presenting the rational aspects of Hindu faith with an intellectual consistency. It is extremely important to clearly crystallize the operative conceptions in the Hindu Faith. That does not mean any intolerance of any kind for variations in interpretation but a clear definition of what people mean when they use terms like ``Karma Marga.``
Alka:
Please do not expect any comprehensive dicussion/position paper on what is the ``most accepted scripture.`` our purpose, if it materializes, is to present an assessment of the shared principles between ancient Hinduism as formulated in Mahabharat, Islamic principles, and Modern Hinduism as developed after interaction with Islamic thoughts formulated by Tulsi Das. This is an effort to build bridges that can show that principles have a continuity across religious domains.
I have had several occasions to hear Swami Dayananda Saraswati at Saylorsburg, PA. He is really doing very good work at Gurukulam. He is presenting the rational aspects of Hindu faith with an intellectual consistency. It is extremely important to clearly crystallize the operative conceptions in the Hindu Faith. That does not mean any intolerance of any kind for variations in interpretation but a clear definition of what people mean when they use terms like ``Karma Marga.``
Alka:
Please do not expect any comprehensive dicussion/position paper on what is the ``most accepted scripture.`` our purpose, if it materializes, is to present an assessment of the shared principles between ancient Hinduism as formulated in Mahabharat, Islamic principles, and Modern Hinduism as developed after interaction with Islamic thoughts formulated by Tulsi Das. This is an effort to build bridges that can show that principles have a continuity across religious domains.
#56 Posted by sunlight on July 29, 2003 11:40:20 pm
Hi Alka:
``And let us see what were the thoughts of Swami Vivekananda so as to inspire his countrymen.``
Thanks for those inspiring quotes from Swami Vivekananda! Reading those already made me feel more energetic and active!
Hi Inquirer
``Very good practical description!``
Thanks - I was just reproducing what I heard in a lecture by some disciples of Swami Dayanand Saraswati, who is a disciple of Swami Chinmayananda. His lectures on Vedanta and Hinduism are very clear and enlightening. I am attaching two URLs to his web site and also a social service organization he founded.
http://www.arshavidya.org/
http://www.aimforseva.org/
``One point of difference. Can you quote the source of definition for Karma Marga? From the life of various Karma Yogis like Mahatma Gandhi, Vivekananda and Tilak, I thought it involves more than just prayers. You must lead the life of right action within the social frame work.``
I think there is a slight difference between the interpretations of exactly what is karma yoga, which does not really matter. Swamiji said that nishkama karma (selfless or right action) is extremely important, but it is not a marga because it is not an activity or path but an attitude that applies to ALL the margas. For example, take jnana marga, which is study of scriptures. If this is done with the objective of getting fame or prestige or acquiring followers, it is useless. So even jnana yoga has to be done as a nishkama karma (selflessly). In other words, in Swamiji`s interpretation, nishkama karma is the way in which one has to do the three margas.
In Sanskrit, karma can mean either action or prayers and rituals. The different meanings give two different interpretations. But the difference doesn`t matter because even if one is interpreting karma as meaning prayers, nobody is denying the importance of selfless or right action.
``And let us see what were the thoughts of Swami Vivekananda so as to inspire his countrymen.``
Thanks for those inspiring quotes from Swami Vivekananda! Reading those already made me feel more energetic and active!
Hi Inquirer
``Very good practical description!``
Thanks - I was just reproducing what I heard in a lecture by some disciples of Swami Dayanand Saraswati, who is a disciple of Swami Chinmayananda. His lectures on Vedanta and Hinduism are very clear and enlightening. I am attaching two URLs to his web site and also a social service organization he founded.
http://www.arshavidya.org/
http://www.aimforseva.org/
``One point of difference. Can you quote the source of definition for Karma Marga? From the life of various Karma Yogis like Mahatma Gandhi, Vivekananda and Tilak, I thought it involves more than just prayers. You must lead the life of right action within the social frame work.``
I think there is a slight difference between the interpretations of exactly what is karma yoga, which does not really matter. Swamiji said that nishkama karma (selfless or right action) is extremely important, but it is not a marga because it is not an activity or path but an attitude that applies to ALL the margas. For example, take jnana marga, which is study of scriptures. If this is done with the objective of getting fame or prestige or acquiring followers, it is useless. So even jnana yoga has to be done as a nishkama karma (selflessly). In other words, in Swamiji`s interpretation, nishkama karma is the way in which one has to do the three margas.
In Sanskrit, karma can mean either action or prayers and rituals. The different meanings give two different interpretations. But the difference doesn`t matter because even if one is interpreting karma as meaning prayers, nobody is denying the importance of selfless or right action.
#55 Posted by Alka on July 29, 2003 6:36:14 pm
Friends, I wrote this article in a lighter mood without doing any research about this topic of miracles or religion. So, nice to see the discussions evolving towards deeper issues.
I wrote from my own very basic knowledge and hence my article has no intricate or deep thoughts, just what I felt impulsively at the time I wrote. Later on I did find plenty of interesting material on miracles from all over the world.
Christian miracles have instances of crying statues - trickling tears or blood. Also, abut crosses of light appearing.
Muslim miracles have words or script of Allah written seen in vegetables like potato, watermelon and aubergine when cut into half. Mostly Arabic words or sounds about Allah and his messenger.
Hindu miracles are predominantly related to statues drinking or eating, bhabhuti (ashes) appearing and disappearing.
And there are few Sikh and Buddhist miracles too.
I read it somewhere ‘Those who search for signs will find them. So, those who look for miracles, encounter them’.
Inquirer/Ironman/rsridhar - a nice conclusion about Hinduism is developing out of your discussions. Conclusions as to what exactly is Hinduism and which is the most accepted scripture. And if you actually form a trio of tahmed-rsridhar-Inquirer, I am sure a comparitive, informative article based on Islam and Hinduism, will come forth.
I wrote from my own very basic knowledge and hence my article has no intricate or deep thoughts, just what I felt impulsively at the time I wrote. Later on I did find plenty of interesting material on miracles from all over the world.
Christian miracles have instances of crying statues - trickling tears or blood. Also, abut crosses of light appearing.
Muslim miracles have words or script of Allah written seen in vegetables like potato, watermelon and aubergine when cut into half. Mostly Arabic words or sounds about Allah and his messenger.
Hindu miracles are predominantly related to statues drinking or eating, bhabhuti (ashes) appearing and disappearing.
And there are few Sikh and Buddhist miracles too.
I read it somewhere ‘Those who search for signs will find them. So, those who look for miracles, encounter them’.
Inquirer/Ironman/rsridhar - a nice conclusion about Hinduism is developing out of your discussions. Conclusions as to what exactly is Hinduism and which is the most accepted scripture. And if you actually form a trio of tahmed-rsridhar-Inquirer, I am sure a comparitive, informative article based on Islam and Hinduism, will come forth.
#54 Posted by Alka on July 29, 2003 6:28:41 pm
And let us see what were the thoughts of Swami Vivekananda so as to inspire his countrymen.
Swami Vivekananda - The Qualifications of a Karma Yogi
Three things are necessary for great achievements. First, feel from the heart. What is the intellect or reason? It goes a few steps and there it stops. But through the heart comes inspiration. Love opens the most impossible gates. Love is the gate to all the secrets of the universe. Feel, therefore, my would-be-reformers, my would-be patriots! Do you feel ? Do you feel that millions and millions of the descendents of gods and of sages have become next-door neighbors to brutes? Do you feel that millions are starving today and millions have been starving for ages? Do you feel that ignorance has come over the land as a dark cloud ? Does it make you restless? Does it make you sleepless? Has it gone into your blood, coursing through your veins, becoming consonant through your heartbeats? Has it made you almost mad? Are you seized with that one idea of the misery of ruin, and have you forgotten all about your name, your fame, your wives, your children, your property, even your own bodies? Have you done that? That is the first step to become a patriot, the very first step.
You may feel, but instead of spending your energies in frothy talk, have you found any way out, any practical solution--some help instead of condemnation, some sweet words to soothe their miseries, to bring them out of this living death?
Yet that is not all. Have you got the will to surmount mountain-high obstructions? If the whole world stands against you, sword-in-hand, would you still dare to do what you think is right? If your wives and children are against you, if all your money goes, your name dies, your wealth vanishes, would you still stick to it? Would you still pursue it and go on steadily toward your own goal? As the great king Bharatrihari says: ``Let the sages blame or let them praise; let the Goddess of fortune come or let her go wherever she likes; let death come today or let it come in hundreds of years; he indeed is the steady man who does not move once inch from the way of truth``. Have you got that steadfastness?
If you have these three things, each one of you will work miracles. You need not write in the newspapers; you need not go about lecturing; you very face will shine. If you live in a cave your thoughts will permeate even through the rock walls, will go vibrating over the world for hundreds of years, maybe until they will fasten on some brain and work out there. Such is the power of thought, of sincerity, and of purity of purpose.
****
Thanks for reading.
Swami Vivekananda - The Qualifications of a Karma Yogi
Three things are necessary for great achievements. First, feel from the heart. What is the intellect or reason? It goes a few steps and there it stops. But through the heart comes inspiration. Love opens the most impossible gates. Love is the gate to all the secrets of the universe. Feel, therefore, my would-be-reformers, my would-be patriots! Do you feel ? Do you feel that millions and millions of the descendents of gods and of sages have become next-door neighbors to brutes? Do you feel that millions are starving today and millions have been starving for ages? Do you feel that ignorance has come over the land as a dark cloud ? Does it make you restless? Does it make you sleepless? Has it gone into your blood, coursing through your veins, becoming consonant through your heartbeats? Has it made you almost mad? Are you seized with that one idea of the misery of ruin, and have you forgotten all about your name, your fame, your wives, your children, your property, even your own bodies? Have you done that? That is the first step to become a patriot, the very first step.
You may feel, but instead of spending your energies in frothy talk, have you found any way out, any practical solution--some help instead of condemnation, some sweet words to soothe their miseries, to bring them out of this living death?
Yet that is not all. Have you got the will to surmount mountain-high obstructions? If the whole world stands against you, sword-in-hand, would you still dare to do what you think is right? If your wives and children are against you, if all your money goes, your name dies, your wealth vanishes, would you still stick to it? Would you still pursue it and go on steadily toward your own goal? As the great king Bharatrihari says: ``Let the sages blame or let them praise; let the Goddess of fortune come or let her go wherever she likes; let death come today or let it come in hundreds of years; he indeed is the steady man who does not move once inch from the way of truth``. Have you got that steadfastness?
If you have these three things, each one of you will work miracles. You need not write in the newspapers; you need not go about lecturing; you very face will shine. If you live in a cave your thoughts will permeate even through the rock walls, will go vibrating over the world for hundreds of years, maybe until they will fasten on some brain and work out there. Such is the power of thought, of sincerity, and of purity of purpose.
****
Thanks for reading.
#53 Posted by Alka on July 29, 2003 6:22:17 pm
Karma yoga removes the impurities of the mind and prepares it for the reception of divine light, divine grace and divine knowledge. Service of humanity is service of God. Work always elevates when it is done in the right spirit, without attachment and egoism.
Karma yoga expands the heart, breaks all the barriers that stand in the way of realising the ultimate unity and takes you to the door of intuition. It helps you to develop divine virtues such as mercy, tolerance, kindness, cosmic love, patience, self-restraint, etc. It destroys jealousy, hatred, malice and the idea of superiority. Karma yoga is the yoga of selfless action, without the idea of agency and without expectation of fruits. Work is worship of the Lord. There is indescribable joy in the practice of karma yoga.
A karma yogi should be absolutely free from greed, lust, anger and egoism. Only then can he do real and useful service. A karma yogi should have an amiable, loving nature. He should have perfect adaptability, tolerance, sympathy, cosmic love and mercy. He should be able to adjust himself to the ways and habits of others.
A karma yogi should have an all-embracing and all-inclusive heart. He should have equal-vision. He should have a cool and balanced mind. He should rejoice in the welfare of others. He should have all his senses under control. He should lead a very simple life.
A karma yogi should bear insult, disrespect, dishonour, censure, infamy, disgrace, harsh words, heat and cold and the pains of disease. He should have great power of endurance. He should have absolute faith in himself, in God, in the scriptures and In the words of his guru. Such a man is a good karma yogi and reaches the goal quickly.
The man who serves the world, really serves himself. This is an important point. When you serve a man, when you serve your country, always think that the Lord has given you a rare opportunity to improve. Correct and mould yourself by service. Be grateful to that man who has given you a chance to serve him.
More at: http://www.carnatic.com/karmasaya/index.php?Karma%20Yogi
Karma yoga expands the heart, breaks all the barriers that stand in the way of realising the ultimate unity and takes you to the door of intuition. It helps you to develop divine virtues such as mercy, tolerance, kindness, cosmic love, patience, self-restraint, etc. It destroys jealousy, hatred, malice and the idea of superiority. Karma yoga is the yoga of selfless action, without the idea of agency and without expectation of fruits. Work is worship of the Lord. There is indescribable joy in the practice of karma yoga.
A karma yogi should be absolutely free from greed, lust, anger and egoism. Only then can he do real and useful service. A karma yogi should have an amiable, loving nature. He should have perfect adaptability, tolerance, sympathy, cosmic love and mercy. He should be able to adjust himself to the ways and habits of others.
A karma yogi should have an all-embracing and all-inclusive heart. He should have equal-vision. He should have a cool and balanced mind. He should rejoice in the welfare of others. He should have all his senses under control. He should lead a very simple life.
A karma yogi should bear insult, disrespect, dishonour, censure, infamy, disgrace, harsh words, heat and cold and the pains of disease. He should have great power of endurance. He should have absolute faith in himself, in God, in the scriptures and In the words of his guru. Such a man is a good karma yogi and reaches the goal quickly.
The man who serves the world, really serves himself. This is an important point. When you serve a man, when you serve your country, always think that the Lord has given you a rare opportunity to improve. Correct and mould yourself by service. Be grateful to that man who has given you a chance to serve him.
More at: http://www.carnatic.com/karmasaya/index.php?Karma%20Yogi
#52 Posted by Alka on July 29, 2003 6:22:01 pm
Sunlight (#49), you have very accurately covered various paths to attain God. Thanks for the info
A bit more of similar stuff here……
Yoga denotes trying to communicate with the almighty through various means. Means or paths are only three ... Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga or Karma Yoga.
Those who make prayers as their only solace of life like Priests, Swamis, Sadhus and Munis etc. ... are called Bhakti Yogis. Those who embrace Jnana as their chief aim of life ... through introspection and Self-Realization reach their destined goal of life are followers of the Jnana Yoga path.
And when you try to follow the Karma path ... you are called a Karma Yogi for, in fulfilling the requirements of self, family and society you are doing an act of His (God). Satisfaction obtained by such deeds is thus, a prayer completed!!
Karma Yoga stands for doing your duties towards your own self, family, society and masses without a feeling of doubt, obligation or lust but as a duty one has to perform in the service of God. Karma denotes one’s capability to think (invoke positive or negative thoughts) followed by action (thoughts in crystallized form). None can perform even a single act without a thought preceding it! Can you?
The correct approach towards the path of Karma Yoga is ‘living in the present’. The fleeting seconds passing by are the true actual moments within your grasp. You have absolutely zero control over the past events. You can exercise 100% control over the future by controlling your present!!.
“Karam kiye ja fal(result) ki ichcha(desire) mat kar ae insaan, jaise karam karega waisa fal dega bhagwaan, yeh hai Geeta ka gyaan”
The path of karma Yoga is simpler and easy to follow, for you neither have to leave your family and more so enjoy all comforts of life but via this path you can never reach the goal in one life span (Who knows what we shall be in our next life! It is always desirable to divert ourselves from the path of Karma Yoga to Bhakti Yoga or Jnana Yoga in this very life).
At every stage of life you also invariably follow the path of Bhakti Yoga while making your prayers (though inherently). Bhakti Yoga alone is capable of taking you towards God but in Jnana Yoga you have the added advantage of solving all your queries before you realize God. A Jnana Yogi is competent enough to guide the whole Humanity towards the Ultimate goal of life ... The culmination of all your prayers ... God - Realization!!!
A bit more of similar stuff here……
Yoga denotes trying to communicate with the almighty through various means. Means or paths are only three ... Jnana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga or Karma Yoga.
Those who make prayers as their only solace of life like Priests, Swamis, Sadhus and Munis etc. ... are called Bhakti Yogis. Those who embrace Jnana as their chief aim of life ... through introspection and Self-Realization reach their destined goal of life are followers of the Jnana Yoga path.
And when you try to follow the Karma path ... you are called a Karma Yogi for, in fulfilling the requirements of self, family and society you are doing an act of His (God). Satisfaction obtained by such deeds is thus, a prayer completed!!
Karma Yoga stands for doing your duties towards your own self, family, society and masses without a feeling of doubt, obligation or lust but as a duty one has to perform in the service of God. Karma denotes one’s capability to think (invoke positive or negative thoughts) followed by action (thoughts in crystallized form). None can perform even a single act without a thought preceding it! Can you?
The correct approach towards the path of Karma Yoga is ‘living in the present’. The fleeting seconds passing by are the true actual moments within your grasp. You have absolutely zero control over the past events. You can exercise 100% control over the future by controlling your present!!.
“Karam kiye ja fal(result) ki ichcha(desire) mat kar ae insaan, jaise karam karega waisa fal dega bhagwaan, yeh hai Geeta ka gyaan”
The path of karma Yoga is simpler and easy to follow, for you neither have to leave your family and more so enjoy all comforts of life but via this path you can never reach the goal in one life span (Who knows what we shall be in our next life! It is always desirable to divert ourselves from the path of Karma Yoga to Bhakti Yoga or Jnana Yoga in this very life).
At every stage of life you also invariably follow the path of Bhakti Yoga while making your prayers (though inherently). Bhakti Yoga alone is capable of taking you towards God but in Jnana Yoga you have the added advantage of solving all your queries before you realize God. A Jnana Yogi is competent enough to guide the whole Humanity towards the Ultimate goal of life ... The culmination of all your prayers ... God - Realization!!!
#51 Posted by rsridhar on July 29, 2003 1:32:50 pm
re:#48 by Inquirer
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your post.
Great idea about the collaboration though i must warn you that i am not an expert and i am what yogananda would love to call a ``spiritual novice``. Still, i am interested in the project. Pray tell me what you have in mind in greater detail and i will do it, time permitting of course. I have a lot of respect for tahmed sahib and i think he is best suited to bring out the teachings of Qoran to laypeople like me.
Sridhar
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your post.
Great idea about the collaboration though i must warn you that i am not an expert and i am what yogananda would love to call a ``spiritual novice``. Still, i am interested in the project. Pray tell me what you have in mind in greater detail and i will do it, time permitting of course. I have a lot of respect for tahmed sahib and i think he is best suited to bring out the teachings of Qoran to laypeople like me.
Sridhar
#50 Posted by Inquirer on July 29, 2003 10:08:11 am
#49, sunlight:
Very good practical description!
One point of difference. Can you quote the source of definition for Karma Marga? From the life of various Karma Yogis like Mahatma Gandhi, Vivekananda and Tilak, I thought it involves more than just prayers. You must lead the life of right action within the social frame work.
Very good practical description!
One point of difference. Can you quote the source of definition for Karma Marga? From the life of various Karma Yogis like Mahatma Gandhi, Vivekananda and Tilak, I thought it involves more than just prayers. You must lead the life of right action within the social frame work.
#49 Posted by sunlight on July 29, 2003 9:21:56 am
Re: Inquirer 44:
Your assessment of Vedas is not correct, if you imply their unimportance which you may not >be intending, because all of the religious-scriptural books cite them as the source of the
essence their teaching.
Let me try and summarize what I think is the traditional Hindu interpretation of the relationship of the Vedas, Ramayana, etc. Traditionally, Hinduism recognizes a number of margas / paths to God / methods of worship. Some of these are:
1. jnana - study of scriptures, primarily the Vedas, Upanishads and commentaries, to understand about Brahman or God
2. karma - performance of specified prayers and rituals. For example, the Vedas prescribe that all Hindus should perform the Sandhyavandanam prayer three times a day. Regular performance of the prayers, rituals and meditation is supposed to purify the mind and bring it closer to God.
3. bhakti - devotion to or love for God. This love can be cultivated by reading and reflecting on religious stories, such as Ramayana and Mahabharata, lives of saints, singing religious songs, etc.
A really devout Hindu is supposed to do all the above. Each person can lay emphasis on one or the other depending upon their temperament. Due to the pressures of modern life, many people do not have the time to study the scriptures deeply under a qualified teacher or perform required prayers regularly. So the reading of religious stories has become a very important religious activity.
Your assessment of Vedas is not correct, if you imply their unimportance which you may not >be intending, because all of the religious-scriptural books cite them as the source of the
essence their teaching.
Let me try and summarize what I think is the traditional Hindu interpretation of the relationship of the Vedas, Ramayana, etc. Traditionally, Hinduism recognizes a number of margas / paths to God / methods of worship. Some of these are:
1. jnana - study of scriptures, primarily the Vedas, Upanishads and commentaries, to understand about Brahman or God
2. karma - performance of specified prayers and rituals. For example, the Vedas prescribe that all Hindus should perform the Sandhyavandanam prayer three times a day. Regular performance of the prayers, rituals and meditation is supposed to purify the mind and bring it closer to God.
3. bhakti - devotion to or love for God. This love can be cultivated by reading and reflecting on religious stories, such as Ramayana and Mahabharata, lives of saints, singing religious songs, etc.
A really devout Hindu is supposed to do all the above. Each person can lay emphasis on one or the other depending upon their temperament. Due to the pressures of modern life, many people do not have the time to study the scriptures deeply under a qualified teacher or perform required prayers regularly. So the reading of religious stories has become a very important religious activity.
#48 Posted by Inquirer on July 29, 2003 6:47:44 am
#44,rsridhar:
Thanks for commenting on my remarks. I value them as they come not only from a Hindu but one from South India.
You have brought out a very interesting contrast in relative evaluation of Tulsi Ramayan and Mahabharat as prevalent in North and South India. Obviously, since the North was ruled by the Islamic rulers as early as twelfth century while the South was subjugated by Muslim rulers only around sixteenth century the impact of Islamic rule is much less deep in South. Tulsi Das was born in the fifteenth century hence his influence is considerably less in South India. A concomitant effect of this is also that Sanscrit is much more widely understood in South than North India. The misgiving in North India about Mahabharat is by no means formal and widespread. Also, while Geeta is universally acknowledged to be the core of religious behavior and philososphy in North India, the operative impact is limited to ``desire for fruitless action.`` For everyone the Yudhister-Yaksa samvaad is a gem. Also, some thinker believe that Geeta was added by Shankara to Mahabharat in the ninth century. Well, that is subject of research.
I have read the Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda Paramhans two times , the first being twenty five years ago. I read it critically for miracles etc. and found that not only he de-emphasized the miracles but also he considered it for the uninitiated who do not have an appreciation for deeper aspects of religion and mysticism.
For developing a discussion on the common denominators of Hinduism and Islam, I propose we work out an article in collaboration with tahmed32. This will require a tracing of thoughts to the scriptures in a verifiable manner. You could take Mahabharat, tahmed32 could take Quran and I could take Tulsi Ramayan. What do you guys think?
Thanks for commenting on my remarks. I value them as they come not only from a Hindu but one from South India.
You have brought out a very interesting contrast in relative evaluation of Tulsi Ramayan and Mahabharat as prevalent in North and South India. Obviously, since the North was ruled by the Islamic rulers as early as twelfth century while the South was subjugated by Muslim rulers only around sixteenth century the impact of Islamic rule is much less deep in South. Tulsi Das was born in the fifteenth century hence his influence is considerably less in South India. A concomitant effect of this is also that Sanscrit is much more widely understood in South than North India. The misgiving in North India about Mahabharat is by no means formal and widespread. Also, while Geeta is universally acknowledged to be the core of religious behavior and philososphy in North India, the operative impact is limited to ``desire for fruitless action.`` For everyone the Yudhister-Yaksa samvaad is a gem. Also, some thinker believe that Geeta was added by Shankara to Mahabharat in the ninth century. Well, that is subject of research.
I have read the Autobiography of a Yogi by Yogananda Paramhans two times , the first being twenty five years ago. I read it critically for miracles etc. and found that not only he de-emphasized the miracles but also he considered it for the uninitiated who do not have an appreciation for deeper aspects of religion and mysticism.
For developing a discussion on the common denominators of Hinduism and Islam, I propose we work out an article in collaboration with tahmed32. This will require a tracing of thoughts to the scriptures in a verifiable manner. You could take Mahabharat, tahmed32 could take Quran and I could take Tulsi Ramayan. What do you guys think?
#47 Posted by rsridhar on July 29, 2003 12:27:07 am
re:#34 by ironman
I am not aware of any brahmin who wants to master the Vedas now-a-days. It is just not a good idea! Most brahmins i know of (at least the ones from south, i being one) learnt early on that Vedas are not for this age. Still, they need to be preserved as they have esoteric knowledge. Some people are doing it. Many Veda-pathshalas are being opened in South. People are aware that this should not be lost.
There are a number of centers even in USA, which are doing research on Vedas.
http://www.umassd.edu/indic/waves/history.htm
http://www.arshavidya.org/
Michael Witzel (a Wales Professor of Sanskrit & Chair, Committee on South Asian Studies,
Harvard University) is himself an expert in the field. So, you may not be aware but there is enough in the Vedas to interest many experts in India and abroad. Two areas of interest are: vedic mathematics and vedic astrology.
Vedic mathematics :
http://www.unlv.edu/Colleges/Sciences/Mathematics/people/bhatnagar.html
David Frawley is an american who is heading a vedic astrology center in USA. He is well known in India.
Sridhar
I am not aware of any brahmin who wants to master the Vedas now-a-days. It is just not a good idea! Most brahmins i know of (at least the ones from south, i being one) learnt early on that Vedas are not for this age. Still, they need to be preserved as they have esoteric knowledge. Some people are doing it. Many Veda-pathshalas are being opened in South. People are aware that this should not be lost.
There are a number of centers even in USA, which are doing research on Vedas.
http://www.umassd.edu/indic/waves/history.htm
http://www.arshavidya.org/
Michael Witzel (a Wales Professor of Sanskrit & Chair, Committee on South Asian Studies,
Harvard University) is himself an expert in the field. So, you may not be aware but there is enough in the Vedas to interest many experts in India and abroad. Two areas of interest are: vedic mathematics and vedic astrology.
Vedic mathematics :
http://www.unlv.edu/Colleges/Sciences/Mathematics/people/bhatnagar.html
David Frawley is an american who is heading a vedic astrology center in USA. He is well known in India.
Sridhar
#46 Posted by rsridhar on July 28, 2003 9:21:42 pm
re:#41 by Inquirer
I differ with your views on Mahabharata. Of course, you are entitled to your views but you miss out on the fact that Mahabharata and Ramayana are both ``Itihaasas`` and give moral lessons in a way laypeople can relate to. Now-a-days few know vedas or upanishaads. But every hindu has one time or the other read one of these 2 great episc.
Mahabharat, like Ramayana, has lessons in every chapter. Pearl of Mahabharata is the Bhagwat Geeta. It can be regarded as the reaffirmation of vedas, upanishads all put together. So many eminent men have given their commentaries on it. More recently, swami yogananda`s work was published (after his Samadhi) by his American followers in a 2 volume book called ``God talks with Arjuna: Bhagwat Geeta``. It is a spiritual interpretation of the epic and Geetha. A fascinating book to read if one has the time and the inclination.
Sridhar
I differ with your views on Mahabharata. Of course, you are entitled to your views but you miss out on the fact that Mahabharata and Ramayana are both ``Itihaasas`` and give moral lessons in a way laypeople can relate to. Now-a-days few know vedas or upanishaads. But every hindu has one time or the other read one of these 2 great episc.
Mahabharat, like Ramayana, has lessons in every chapter. Pearl of Mahabharata is the Bhagwat Geeta. It can be regarded as the reaffirmation of vedas, upanishads all put together. So many eminent men have given their commentaries on it. More recently, swami yogananda`s work was published (after his Samadhi) by his American followers in a 2 volume book called ``God talks with Arjuna: Bhagwat Geeta``. It is a spiritual interpretation of the epic and Geetha. A fascinating book to read if one has the time and the inclination.
Sridhar
#45 Posted by rsridhar on July 28, 2003 9:21:42 pm
re: 43 by Alka
I am glad you liked it.
In the whole of that book, Yogananda never ever claimed he worked any miracles. He wrote much about the miracles of his Gurus but never about his own. He was too humble to do that but one of his followers (Donald Walters, also known as Kriyananda) wrote another book ``The Path``, which is also freely available on line, in which he talks about (in great detail) the miracles that Yogananda performed in India and later on , in USA.
Spiritual masters perform miracles for the benefit of humanity. These happens in subtle ways and most ordinary folks do not see them happen.
Sridhar
I am glad you liked it.
In the whole of that book, Yogananda never ever claimed he worked any miracles. He wrote much about the miracles of his Gurus but never about his own. He was too humble to do that but one of his followers (Donald Walters, also known as Kriyananda) wrote another book ``The Path``, which is also freely available on line, in which he talks about (in great detail) the miracles that Yogananda performed in India and later on , in USA.
Spiritual masters perform miracles for the benefit of humanity. These happens in subtle ways and most ordinary folks do not see them happen.
Sridhar
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