unflinching idealism ... since 1997 archivessitemapabouthelpfeedback
all are welcome to read, write and think
  • Home
  • InFocus
  • Themes
  • Columns
  • Articles
  • Fiction
  • iLogs
  • Gallery
  • Unplugged
  • Writers
  • Interactors
  • Tags
Sign in | Join Chowk
web chowk
  • Article
  • Interact
  • read writer comments
  • add to favorites
  • get rss feeds
  • print
  • email this link

The Last Trumpets

Feroz R Khan August 7, 2003

Latest comments   flat   threaded   latest   oldest   all
listing 48-64   1 2 3 4

#6 Posted by nazarhayatkhan on August 8, 2003 11:50:33 am

The author has given a historical view of the personalities & power centres like the military and the bureacracy. But there is no talk of the people and their aspirations.

Unless we are clear about the whole concept, we will continue to remain lost in the jungle looking for trees.

My two pence are as follows:

(a) The day Muslim Leaugue came into being, for the sake of Muslims, an incalculable damage had been done to the South Asia. I wish Jinnah had joined the Unionist party or created a new party with a broader aim, an Indian Democratic party, a voice for all minorities.

(b) Break up of India on the basis of religion was faulty and this mess up would continue unless the situation is retracted in some form - some kind of Union with India under the secular concept. Nehru is to be equally blamed with Jinnah for creation of Pakistan.

(c) Pakistan has four distinct nationalities - Punjab, Sind, Baluchistan and Pashtoons. These have an historical and geographical identities. Their identities have to be fully respected and these should voluntarily join the federation. For which, parliamentary form of government is best suited and it has been historically accepted by all shades of parties in the last 56 years. (Bengalis, the fifth nationality broke away because of non-recognition of their nationality and a presidential form of government along with other less important reasons)

(d) Army or bureacracy are minor departments of the state and have no more significance than that.

(e) Pakistan is like a Titanic merrily heading into unknown dangers lurking ahead. It requires a statesmanship handling to veer it off from the icebergs. The military and bureacracy with shallow depth or ideas can not be the saviours. (I have seen them from close - and believe me, majority of Chowkees have a far better vision than them)

(e) The solution is simple - let an unfettered democracy find a way out of this mess.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#5 Posted by jay on August 8, 2003 7:10:42 am
Ferzok,

Nice for you to accept that jinnah did not have a political constituency. At last some one has accepted that pakistan was created by one man because of his hard work on the typewriter. Pakistan did not have a string of leaders shaped by the independance struggle, it is simply created as a theocratic state by operationalising the islamic notion of kafir into a political theory, two nation theory.
There is hope for pakistan only when jinnah is placed at par with the great leader of germany. The total kill count of pakistan should be approaching that of the great german leader. At last your article is a step in the right direction, you have traced the falure of pakistan to the actions of the first governer general, take the next step to TNT, and there is hope for pakistan. Then remosve and smash the photos.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#4 Posted by MantoLives on August 8, 2003 2:17:33 am
My deduction from the two posts I have posted earlier:

1) No matter what the author says, Army has no excuse to meddle in Pakistani politics. If Pakistan is to have a Presidential form of Government.. so be it... Let the civilians decide.

2) Having read the salient features of the Government of India Act 1935 which was to form the provisional constitution, I am forced to agree with Jinnah`s contention that `Executive authority flows from the Governor General` under this constitution. Jinnah`s actions could be termed as harmful to Parliamentary system, and even autocratic, but they were completely within the prescribed constitutional limits.



reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#3 Posted by MantoLives on August 8, 2003 2:11:52 am


I recall that there was an earlier article about Jinnah which made no sense when it claimed that Jinnah broke the constitution when dismissing the assembly of NWFP a... the truth is that while that action is controversial and debatable for many reasons (like the collusion of
khudai khidmatgars with Fakir of Ipi), the fact remains that Jinnah acted within the limits of his constitutional powers.

The Powers of the Governor General under the Government of India Act 1935 (amended for 1947):

The Governor General under the amended G-O-I Act 1935 had the following responsibilities:

1) Maintenance of Law and Order
2) Safeguarding the financial stability and credit of the Federal Government
3) Safeguarding the rights and interests of minorities

These are the most important executive powers of them all for any state. These are the powers that Jinnah is supposed to have concentrated in his hands.

Furthermore section 51(5) allows for dismissal of the provincial assemblies by the Governor of the Province on the orders of the Governor General. The GG of Pakistan dismissed the NWFP assembly exercising the first responsibility of the Governor General. Jinnah didn`t make this constitution, the British left it to us.

Infact Mohammed Ali Jinnah, in my opinion, curtailed the powers of the office of the Governor General. The constitution advised that the assent of the GG was required for the passage of the bills. Jinnah on the other hand signed those bills in his capacity as the elected president of the constituent assembly... he did so because apparently he hated the phrase `in the name of his majesty`... he would strike out those words every time a bill was presented as such.


-Manto

reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#2 Posted by MantoLives on August 8, 2003 1:44:28 am
Will someone comment on the powers of the Governor General under the amended Government of India Act 1935 which was the provisional constitution of Pakistan? I think a lot of this debate becomes a phusphussi debate after that.


K B Sayeed concludes in his book Formative phase (which criticizes Jinnah`s role as Governor General for having created a presidential legacy):

``However Jinnah`s position as the founder of the nation is unique. He was the first and only Governor General who derived his ultimate authority neither from the power of the army nor the support of the bureaucracy, nor from any constitutional prerogratives, but from the political support that his people gave him in an abundant measure`.


The issue is not of parliamentary democracy vs presidential democracy. Both are democracies, and we have seen the presidential system work very well in the United States. Opt for any system you want but the point is that the armed forces of the country should not be allowed to interfere in politics, and the political system should remain free of meddling with religion. Jinnah, as K B Sayeed says, had popular support of the people. He was a civilian leader who had been nominated as Governor General by the majority party of the newly formed Pakistan. I can`t believe it... the author is trying to equate the Army rule to `Presidential politics`. Whether the civilian politicians opt for a presidential system or a parliamentary one is entirely upto them.... whether civilian politicians concentrate powers in an executive, or they give those powers to the parliament is their decision. How can you justify Army rule by saying that Jinnah was more presidential in nature?

Jinnah simply exercised executive authority. He was content to leave legislation and constitution making to the constituent assembly though I wish he had done that himself as well. Had he done the same as the Prime Minister, there would be no criticism. But he did so as the Governor General. Nehru ruled much the same way as Prime Minister in India. So I see how Jinnah`s exercise of executive authority underminded the office of the Prime Minister, but I`d really like to know if the author feels it gave the military a case to intervene in Pakistani politics over and over again? The armywallahs are always against the civilian establishment, be it Jinnah or be it Bhutto. Their rebellious attitude had elicited this snub by Jinnah `In Pakistan civilian authority will be supreme, if you can`t accept this you can leave Pakistan`... it is said that Ayub Khan was present in that group of officers.

Army`s excuse that `Jinnah wanted a presidential system, so we will take over the country` is a lame one to say the least.

-Manto

reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
#1 Posted by veeresh on August 8, 2003 12:28:36 am
Many of the problems facing Pakistan today would get solved if your system of governance allowed for electing generals and other senior Armed Forces officers. Assuming that a tenure in the junior and middle ranks equalised all the variables of feudalism, socialism, cronyism, intellectualism and any other ``ism``, then post Brigadier ranks, promotions would be basis fixed tenure ``lifeboat`` scenario elections.

Lifeboat scenario:- all those remaining keep electing who gets thrown out or eaten up, only to have fresh people entering from the sinking ship. There is a triple decker pun here.

In the case of Pakistan, such a system of governance would have great value for the complete region.

a) As an elected Armed Forces Governance territory, it would be free to send Armed Forces everywhere. Imagine, sovereign flag protected security services!

b) Staying busy with elections would keep the Pak Army generals from fighting with neighbours.

c) Limited tenure would enable Pakistan to have young leaders at all times, looking good in suit-boot-pant-shant and tie.

d) Pakistan stock market would take off! Believe me.

For deeper presentation & consultancy, please get in touch.
reply to this interact write a new interact add to favorites flag objectionable content
listing 48-64   1 2 3 4

Interact Index

    #54 SR
    #53 SR
    #52 rozaiba
    #51 ferozk
    #50 MantoLives
    #49 MantoLives
    #48 rozaiba
    #47 rozaiba
    #46 Urstruly
    #45 ferozk
    #44 Urstruly
    #43 ferozk
    #42 ferozk
    #41 rozaiba
    #40 MantoLives
    #39 Romair
    #38 Urstruly
    #37 ferozk
    #36 rozaiba
    #35 yogiraj
    #34 MantoLives
    #33 ferozk
    #32 ferozk
    #31 MantoLives
    #30 MantoLives
    #29 rozaiba
    #28 MantoLives
    #27 MantoLives
    #26 MantoLives
    #25 ana_dobarah
    #24 MantoLives
    #23 faisaluno
    #22 ferozk
    #21 yogiraj
    #20 yogiraj
    #19 MantoLives
    #18 ferozk
    #17 MantoLives
    #16 jay
    #15 jay
    #14 MantoLives
    #13 MantoLives
    #12 nazarhayatkhan
    #11 MantoLives
    #10 nasah
    #9 MantoLives
    #8 MantoLives
    #7 MantoLives
    #6 nazarhayatkhan
    #5 jay
    #4 MantoLives
    #3 MantoLives
    #2 MantoLives
    #1 veeresh

Latest Interacts

  • rabiawsti: #42 well, land reforms predated... There is no ‘honour’
  • hamidm2: Re: # 74 masadi mian, "Ahmad... Why Zardari Should Be
  • masadi: hamid writes to tahmed"...... Why Zardari Should Be
  • masadi: Venga writes "HP, this... There is no ‘honour’
  • masadi: Here is an article... There is no ‘honour’
  • masadi: HP writes "were large... There is no ‘honour’
  • tahmed32: #72 hamidm: i grew... Why Zardari Should Be
  • hamidm2: Re: # 70 tahmed, .... so... Why Zardari Should Be

THEMES

  • Pakistan's Struggle for Democracy
  • The Indian Story
  • Indo-Pak Relations
  • Personal Narratives
  • Religion Today
  • War on Terror
  • Role of Media
  • Call for Social Change
  • Hold Them Accountable
  • Environment and Us
  • Way of Life
more »

Top 5 Articles This Week

  • Popular
  • Save Me From Charismatic Leaders!
  • Why Zardari Should Be President!
  • US Commando Strike in Waziristan
  • Free to Breed
  • There is no ‘honour’ in killing
  • Featured
  • There are a Lot of Monkeys
  • White Charade
  • Words of a Woman
  • FOX News and the Smelly Shoes
  • Dilemmas of Creative Children
  • 10 Years Ago
  • Phuppi ki Beti, Mamoon ka Beta
  • India tests three nuclear devices
  • The Beautiful Game
  • Man or mouse
  • Can People be Forced to Accept Islam? A Qur’anic Perspective

Write on Chowk Interact Guidelines Privacy policy Terms Contact

Copyright © 1997 - 2008 chowk.com. All Rights Reserved
Reproduction of material on any www.chowk.com pages without prior written permissions is strictly prohibited