Low Intensity Conflict

Tariq sb, your article on Low Intensity Conflict was quite informative and suggestive. It not only divulges the topic with examples but also suggests some remedies, that not many writers do. That article was quite relevant incase of Pakistan as Pakistan is the worst victim of it. You have always been inclined on showing “…. the Beautiful” part of the picture & this article was no exception…glorifying the army, or may be that bibliographical references from Army Generals casted shadow over for an otherwise a balanced article. We would like to hear more from you…

gujjubania #43

As opposed to being the third-class morons that many Indians in this site surely are.

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Mantolives at # 40:

First, it is my honor to have your views.

Second, there is a discussion going on between Tauheed saheb and myself on President Musharraf, his ``antics``, Mullas and OBL on another topic viz. ``Who is scared of Al Qaeda?``. I invite you there, since your participation will be of great benefit to all chowksters.

Ahmadzai,

The leadership of PPP is on record putting up the same line of argument, so I am not entirely sure what you are talking about... I suppose calling me an Indian or anti-Pakistan would help you ignore me and what I am saying... but the fact is that I am neither an Indian nor anti-Pakistan... Had I been an Indian I wouldn`t give a rat`s a$$ about Pakistan... had I been anti-Pakistan I could have said a lot of stuff which would make life uncomfortable for the Pakistanis on these boards. As for ``anti-Pakistan`` and ``anti-Islamic`` comments by Indians and my silence... I believe in the Pakistan of Jinnah`s conception ... Modern, democratic, progressive and secular. I believe in the Islam that Iqbal spoke of .... dynamic, tolerant, and outwardlooking. So far I have not seen anything from the Indians which criticizes the kind of Pakistan or Islam that I believe in... If god forbid Pakistan and India were to go to war... you won`t find me lacking in courage.. I will defend every last inch of this land, and I will not spare even my life in the defence of Pakistan God willing.

However that doesn`t mean that I will be party to everything wrong or right that my nation does... My nation is wrong on many accounts, and I don`t ascribe to any of that. Like Sigalph has written:

``Our country right or wrong: When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right``-Carl Schurz.


Here is a quotation from the general you seem to admire so much:

`The real threat is from within`

Even Musharraf can say a thing or two which makes sense... he is a decent guy... it is his position that is the problem... his machiavellian actions are dictated by necessity. Otherwise he will be overthrown and hanged. The truth is that the only institution capable of governing Pakistan, is that institution called the `parliament`... I believe in a sovereign, elected parliament ... that is the only way Pakistan will move forward socially, politically, and economically... Without democracy our future is bleak, and putting our money on the dark horses is a bad idea.

-YLH

Dear Aqil, could you please expain the purpose of posting this on the chowk and seeking feedback on it???
Who is the intended audience of this article? Is it going to be a part of some training manual or a Phd thesis? Are you associated with the Armed forces in any manner or not? Why the accolades to the army without putting substantial facts in it? Is it going to be read by the army officials? Is it a research topic to be funded by the army? Is it a part of some army officer`s lecture to the jehadi recruits?
Please clarify!

#30 by Mantolives on October 19, 2003 7:44am PT
Ditto Again!!!
To all the apologetics and admirers of Mush-
``You may have gained a lot by licking his army boots. I pray that you all get the boot you deserve when he goes.``

This article does seem to have a pro-military bias. Author is portraying the pakistani army as the sole guardian of pakistan against a world hell-bent on dividing pakistan. There is no doubt that pakistani army is one of the stable and relatively strong part of the country. However it is not fair to blame all internal problems of pakistan on foreign inteliigence agencies. There are deep divisions within the pakistani society and foreigners exploit it. Pakistan as a state was unable to reduce these intra-group differences and to make a more equitable society.

My writing is NOT pro establishment nor do I intend to glorify the Pakistan Army. The objective of this article is to define and explain the concept of LOW INTENSITY CONFLICT. Examples from Pakistani history or the present day situation have been taken to illustrate the various aspects of Low intensity Conflict and to suggest some ways and means of avoiding or containing this sort of conflict. My Apologies if I have ruffled some feathers or stepped on some toes specially to MANTOLIVES, Kaurasach,Arjun_m and all other CHOWKIES who have been offended. I have vreceived my share of abuse and condemnation but would like to clarify that I have personally lived through the happenings in Dacca during the terrible dark days of the 1971 war and I know that the role played by the Pakistani leadership and the army generals is nothing to brag about.
Tariq Aqil

Ahmadzai

This Manto is not a Pakistani. Ever since he came on Chowk he has been criticizing Pakistan. Earlier, he used to write as ylh. You won`t imagine how anti Pakistan he has always been. He has been been trained by the extremist Advanis and Vajpayees, and has missed the moderating influence of MMA.


Manto: Sorry, dude. Couldn`t help laughing at this....:) :)

re ahmadzai 32

``Hudood Ordinace is again a typical Indian way of cornering Pakistanis on this board.``

So, it was the wily Indians who imposed the Hudood Ordinances on Pakistan. I knew it. I knew it: Mard-e-Momin Ziaul Huq was a RAW agent.

``Reason is that I went through last 100 of your posts and found that in not a single one of them you supported Pakistanis``

Parrotting deeply held beliefs and innuendoes is not exactly patriotism. Real patriotism consists of having the courage to point out the deficiencies in what you love. The Prophet (SAW) emphasized it very well when he asked his follower to love his brother whether that brother was right or wrong: by encouraging him when he does good and criticizing him when he does evil.

It stands to scrutiny that if the generation before Manto`s exercised his true patriotism, instead of being impotent yes-men who were afraid to critique established idiosyncracies, the annals of Pakistani history would have been very different.

``Our country right or wrong: When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right``-Carl Schurz.

#12 by sigalph235

``Salahuddin Qader Chowdhury, the alleged war criminal, is a disgrace to say the least. But then, as a wag opined, he and OIC deserve each other amply. Better to have the crook away from Dhaka and living with the creeps in Jeddah. ``

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http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000149.html#more

War Criminal to Head Islamic Conference? Bangladeshis Oppose Chowdhury
Nomination by Naeem Mohaiemen

---

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000188.html#more

Should a Mafia Don Lead World Muslims? Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury`s
Nomination to Head the OIC By Dr. A. Momen

---

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/opinion.asp?ArticleID=98774

Gulf News
Dubai:Sunday, September 28, 2003

OIC does not need a tarnished politician from Bangladesh By Abdullah
Al Madani

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http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/7772.php

War Criminal, OIC, and the Government of Bangladesh
by Akram, Khundkar,Saleh, Tasneem, Ahmed et al

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http://www.pressaction.com/pablog/archives/001076.html

October 15, 2003
Bangladeshis Oppose Chowdhury Nomination to OIC

The following statement was published online and signed by a number of
Bangladeshis. The Bangladeshi community is alarmed at their
government`s decision to nominate Mr. Salauddin Quader Chowdhury, a
controversial figure and alleged war criminal, for the position of the
Secretary General of the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC). The
petition is available online at: www.petitiononline.com/saka.

---

STATEMENT ON BANGLADESH`S NOMINATION OF SALAUDDIN QUADER CHOWDHURY AS
SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE ISLAMIC CONFERENCE (OIC)

We, the concerned citizens of Bangladesh, express our grave anxiety
and deep shock over the nomination of Mr. Salauddin Quader Chowdhury
for the position of Secretary-General of the Organization of Islamic
Conference (OIC). We call upon the Government of the People`s Republic
of Bangladesh to immediately withdraw the regrettable nomination of
Mr. Chowdhury.

We believe that it is highly inappropriate and deeply irresponsible to
nominate Mr. Chowdhury to such a position for a variety of reasons.
Mr. Chowdhury is tainted with the widespread allegation that he had
supported the Pakistani occupation forces during Bangladesh`s War of
National Liberation in 1971. He was active then as an ignominious ally
of the invading Pakistani army, which committed war crimes, crimes
against humanity, and brutal terrorism against the people of
Bangladesh.

The Pakistani occupation army and its local collaborators targeted
countless unarmed civilians in violation of Geneva Conventions,
international law, and morality. They ruthlessly and indiscriminately
killed and tortured men, women, children, minorities, intellectuals,
students and teachers, writers and artists, artisans and peasants,
workers and vendors, and other Bengalis in the name of Islam,
presumably to uphold the territorial integrity of Pakistan. The
devastating actions of the Pakistan army while making Bangladesh
rubble and a big graveyard were sadistically inhumane, barbaric, and
genocidal and invited worldwide condemnation. Mr. Chowdhury, it has
been widely reputed, actively participated in, or had knowledge of,
gruesome activities in and around his native Chittagong district in
these wanton acts of murder, torture and in the illegal abductions and
arrests of freedom fighters and members of Bangladesh`s minority
community, and innocent civilians.

Given Mr. Chowdhury`s questionable antecedents, it is certainly
inappropriate, to say the least, for the Government of Bangladesh to
nominate him to the position of the Secretary-General of the OIC.

Mr.Chowdhury also has an ugly and unenviable reputation of misogyny,
calling people names, indulging in hate speech against minorities and
is reputed to have sinister connections with criminal and gangster
organizations.

At a time when Bangladesh`s people are trying to project a positive
image of our country, when we are trying to construct sustainable
institutions of democracy and foster a pluralist society based on the
principles of tolerance and freedom, when we are trying to accelerate
the pace of the nation`s economic growth and progress, and when we
want to attract more investment from foreign investors and put to more
efficient use our natural and human resources, the authorities should
not wreck the reputation of the country by nominating a person like
Mr. Chowdhury to a position that requires humane qualities of
compassion and generosity, compromise and concession towards noble
goals. It ruinously militates against the national interest of the
country besides being wildly contrary to all notions of morality. As
Bangladeshis we urge our compatriots and fellow citizens to join us in
condemning this nomination and in urging the government immediately to
rescind this national infamy.

While we do not like to embarrass the Government of Bangladesh, we
feel strongly about this matter. Thus we believe it is our duty also
to inform the citizens of member states of the OIC of Dhaka`s
malapropos nomination of Mr. Chowdhury an alleged war criminal and
terrorist to such an important and internationally eminent position in
which he will represent the member states in various international
forums. The OIC is critically situated in the affairs of the states
concerned and in international relations between the North and the
South in which it plays a constructive role via mediation towards
dispute resolution, via promoting trade and cooperation, and via
providing official development assistance among member states.

Given the current high-voltage propaganda against Muslim-majority and
Arab countries, against Muslims, other non-Western religions, and
various other ethnic communities living in the West, as evinced in the
recent events relating to Iraq, it would be a profound mistake, a morally
shameful move, and a strategic failure to have a person of Mr.
Chowdhury`s dubious reputation elevated to the position of the
Secretary-General of OIC.

We believe that the OIC ought to uphold and practice the principles of
Universal Declaration of Human Rights and its member states should
establish democratic institutions. It would be a disgrace if ill
advisedly the OIC took a retrograde step and elected a controversial
individual, such as Mr. Chowdhury, to its highest office. We cannot
permit this to happen. We will, thus, collectively speak out against
this nomination and intend in due course to publish this statement in
the leading journals of the member states of OIC and call upon all
civil and human rights organizations at home and abroad to resolutely
oppose Mr. Chowdhury`s nomination as Secretary General of the OIC.

---

Mantolives:

``Anyone who follows your line of argument closely can see the fundamental flaws in them... I quoted CNN as a mirror of the World opinion... Pakistan became a pariah after October 12th 1999``

Yet the same channels have praised President Musharraf and his Government. I don`t think that we should believe these media sources as they have their own hidden agenda. recently, I have visited Canada, UK, Spain, Morocco, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. and found their media to be appreciative of President Musharraf.

``Musharraf has built up the Mullahs in NWFP, he is behind sectarian terror... reason: He wants to prove that he is the rational and sane option in the whole of Pakistan... ``

This is a typical extremist Indian (followers of Advanis, Joshis, and Modis who are proven killers of innocent Christians, Hindus and Muslims) line of propaganda. In order to develop your own line, why don`t you talk to PML N and PPP stalwarts and ask them to say the same on media. Let us see if the people you are praising so much are able to support you on these statements.

Also, you must visit NWFP and Pakhtoon belt of Balochistan. You will find that pro-MMA support in these areas is a reality. Please come and talk to our people.

``His economic performance is nothing to write home about.... the reserves and business confidence in Karachi has other reasons... including the MQM`s inclusion in the Government of Sindh... the reserves ofcourse are because of the fall out of 9/11 and the end of Hundi... ``

I agree with you. That is why I never mentioned this. I only asked you about successful export performance, which cannot be attributed to any of your reasons.

``As for women`s empowerment ... and what have those 72 back benchers done in the assembly so far? We don`t believe in cosmetic makeovers... Women in Pakistan will be empowered when Hudood ordinance is abolished and when Women are returned to their original equal position in the eye of the law. ``

At least there are back benchers. What were your BB or Nawaz doing on this front? Hudood Ordinace is again a typical Indian way of cornering Pakistanis on this board. Let me ask you what were your BB and Nawaz doing on this matter?

Btw, I will apologize to you on one matter. before exchanging views with you, I took you for an Indian ( ignore this if you are an Indian). Reason is that I went through last 100 of your posts and found that in not a single one of them you supported Pakistanis. I also found you not challenging any anti-Pakistani or anti-Islamic post by any Indian. You were always criticising posters of Pakistani origin.

arjun_m#7
``Pakistan is the only economy in South Asia whose Gross National Income (GNI) and per capita income have shrunk in the last five years. Pakistan`s per capita income has declined from $480 in 1997 to $420 in 2001 and GNI from $62 billion to $59.6 billion. ``

These kind of statistics are often quite misleading. This ``decline`` in Pakistan`s GNI, I think, was almost entirely due to a dramatic decline in Pakistani rupee during those years (I believe it went down from less than Rs. 50 to almost Rs. 70 to a US dollar). This was not marked by any similar loss of the Pakistani rupee`s purchansing power. I suspect that there has been a similar increase in the dollar measured performance of the Pakistani economy, as the its rupee has appreciated significantly post 9/11.

Anyone who follows your line of argument closely can see the fundamental flaws in them... I quoted CNN as a mirror of the World opinion... Pakistan became a pariah after October 12th 1999... Musharraf has built up the Mullahs in NWFP, he is behind sectarian terror... reason: He wants to prove that he is the rational and sane option in the whole of Pakistan...

His economic performance is nothing to write home about.... the reserves and business confidence in Karachi has other reasons... including the MQM`s inclusion in the Government of Sindh... the reserves ofcourse are because of the fall out of 9/11 and the end of Hundi...

As for women`s empowerment ... and what have those 72 back benchers done in the assembly so far? We don`t believe in cosmetic makeovers... Women in Pakistan will be empowered when Hudood ordinance is abolished and when Women are returned to their original equal position in the eye of the law.

-YLH

Mantolives at # 26:

Red Alert - Long Post

Q1. Do you think Pakistan should have made a u-turn on our Talibani policy or not?
Ans: The talibani policy was the firmly grounded in the Army`s pan-Islamic adventurism....

My response: This flawed policy was something admitted by President Musharraf at the outset. His announcement to curb extremism came on 14th August 2001, that is, before 9/11. You have to understand that strategies are made in the best national interest. Some times they backfire. An adjustment or even a reversal has to be made. Kindly recall that America made a u-turn on its policy versus Contras. India made a u-turn on its policy of self-imposed industrial isolation. Better late than never.


Q2. Do you think Pakistan needed to wipe out sectarian terrorism or not?
Ans: Who created Sectarian terror? Who created SSP?....

My response: You are talking about the past, whereas I am looking at present and future. While you can blame army of sectarianism, you cannot do so President Musharraf and present set of military. See above. He made Pakistanis take a u-turn. His philosophy of `Enlightened Moderation` has been lauded by everyone in the world and has to be appreciated.

Q3. Do you think Pakistan needed a better education system, police system, women empowerment, etc. or not?
Ans: Will the army provide this? No... maybe for its own members ...

My response:
1. The current Government is implementing new education policy. For example, its the Jamiat Goons who were once and are now again bent upon bringing the standard of education down. The new educational policy requires no student politics on campus.

2. President Musharraf has spoken many times against curbing extremism. All the moderate Sunni Muslims, minority Muslim sects and other minorities are with him. Who is resisting him? MMA, PML N, and PPP.

3. He has empowered Pakistani women. The LFO mandates 6 out of 19 provincial seats for women (plus more as women can contest on open seats as well). 72 women out of 340 or so members of the NA are mandated to be women, plus more as they can contest on open seats. Our assemblies are much more colorful now. Besides, women are being encouraged to make decisions on matters concerning them directly. With the passage of time, these women parliamentarians are expected to bring revolutionary changes in the matters adversely impacting them like Hudood Ordinance. But because of our culture, this will take time. Now honestly speaking answer this: Who do you think will be a major resistance to wiping out such ordinances? President Musharraf and his team or Mullas?

4. It took President Musharraf (``a dictator``) and his Government to open up media. Consequently, we see a plethora of private channels being beamed all over the world.

Continued on the next post.

Mantolives at # 26:

Continued from previous post.

Q4. Do you think Pakistan needed a dam or two or not?
Ans: What does this have to with the Army?

My response: This is the most critical factor for Pakistanis for we need water reservoirs at every cost. Previous Governments did not take any action on the matter under their populist agenda. They would not take on any opposition, whereas in the prime national interest a decision for building water reservoirs has to be made. Its President Musharraf and his Government that has made the decision.

5. Do you think Pakistan`s export performance has increased or not?
Ans: Has it? Please do quote some figures on this one.

My response: Please Check out:

http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/4/7/40522074.html
http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/002d11d002feb7b5c1256d0b0053d1b3?OpenDocument
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030829/4/13myb.html

6. Do you think Pakistan`s image in the world recently has improved or not (over that enjoyed by BB and Nawaz reigns)?
Ans: Pakistan`s image all over the world was the best under the democratically elected....

My response:
1. Yet under their regime, Pakistan was about to be declared as a rogue state.
2. Pakistan was being isolated internationally.
3. You cannot deny that both regimes were trying to dislodge each other`s Government.
4. Economically, who could endorse yellow cab scheme versus Red or Green Tractor scheme? The only foreign investment under BB`s Government was Power Plants, who we found out later were totally uneconomical. Even the lady who brought American industrialists to Pakistan, was sacked by Clinton`s Administration under corruption charges.
5. Both the regimes were unable to declare extremist outfits as terrorists.

Concludes.

#26 by Mantolives on October 18, 2003 9:39pm PT

Ditto!!!! I am in complete agreement,

The Root Cause- Army

1. Do you think Pakistan should have made a u-turn on our Talibani policy or not?

Ans: The talibani policy was the firmly grounded in the Army`s pan-Islamic adventurism. Yes we should have made the uturn ... but shouldn`t have been on the wrong way in the first place... courtesy ISI.


2. Do you think Pakistan needed to wipe out sectarian terrorism or not?

Ans: Who created Sectarian terror? Who created SSP? Who created Anti-Shiite feelings in Pakistan? Army, Army and Army.


3. Do you think Pakistan needed a better education system, police system, women empowerment, etc. or not?

Ans: Will the army provide this? No... maybe for its own members ... but not for the people of Pakistan... Pakistan needs to abolish Hudood laws, blasphemy laws and the notorious qanun-e-shahadat ... Has Musharraf done this? No!!

4. Do you think Pakistan needed a dam or two or not?

Ans: What does this have to with the Army?

5. Do you think Pakistan`s export performance has increased or not?

Ans: Has it? Please do quote some figures on this one.


6. Do you think Pakistan`s image in the world recently has improved or not (over that enjoyed by BB and Nawaz reigns)?


Ans: Pakistan`s image all over the world was the best under the democratically elected woman prime minister`s government... there is a world of a difference... I have lived in the US both before and after the Musharraf coup and certainly it was under Musharraf`s regime that our image was destroyed world over... Nawaz Sharif though criticized for attempts at theocracy, was largely seen as a democratically elected Prime Minister who wanted peace with India and good Economics.

In 1997 CNN commented:

``Pakistan is still far from realizing Jinnah`s dream. But as it celebrates 50 years of independence, it seems fitting that Pakistan`s democratic identity appears to be finally coming of age.``

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9708/India97/pakistan/snapshot/index.html

Mushy`s contribution would be known at a hind sight after he goes and when the upright people who worked with him start speaking out at his hare brained commando strategies in making important decisions for Pakistan`s economy and polity.

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as a Pathan ....

LOL....little boys run along, or you may be put to unwanted use. What else can a pathan do?

:)

Mantolives (could you, godot and nazarhayatkhan be the same persons?):

Now let me ask you this:

1. Do you think Pakistan should have made a u-turn on our Talibani policy or not?

2. Do you think Pakistan needed to wipe out sectarian terrorism or not?

3. Do you think Pakistan needed a better education system, police system, women empowerment, etc. or not?

4. Do you think Pakistan needed a dam or two or not?

5. Do you think Pakistan`s export performance has increased or not?

6. Do you think Pakistan`s image in the world recently has improved or not (over that enjoyed by BB and Nawaz reigns)?

Please answer these questions and we will move forwards from here.

And btw, if you are of a Pakistani origin, then let us not make any personal attacks from now onwards. You must understand that as a Pathan I can and will retaliate - ``Piyar ka jawab piyar say day ga or aik laathi ka do lathion say``

;-)

ahmedzai`s economic analysis is as sound as Romair`s...

Both are delusional... in their estimate of the `lost` decade and the current regime`s performance...

-YLH

...so what exactly does tariq uncle want? can someone summarize this article in 1 or 2 sentences?...thanks

We performed economically poorly and that we were almost a failed state was admitted by President Musharraf himeslf. He has told Pakistanis a number of time that in the October of 1999, we were at a stage that we could not have gone deeper in failure from there. He talks of economic development all the time.

I believe that Pakistanis should only be taught one lesson at schools. In order to become a world leader we have to be developed militarily, economically and socially. Thus development on these fronts should be our 1st religious duty.

For economic development, we should let the numbers speak. If the stability remains, and I believe that it will, unless of course the power that be decide that President Musharraf is becoming too big for their comfort, then Pakistan will see more successes.

All economic indicators are in our favor.

The problem would be if we had not recognized our failed performance of the yesteryears, especially those of the lost decade (90s).

Tariq Aqil- Jehadi boy is on the right track to his regulars in the hell!!

this concept of low intensity conflict by Pakistani writers reminds me of the famous couplet by Sahir

zindagi apni sulagtee see chitaa hai Sahir
nu tu jaltee hai nuh bunn ke dhuaaN hotee hai.......

#11 by sigalph235

An example of chivalry during the 1971 war is certainly worth recalling. I remember reading about it in ``Imprint``.

When a largish group of Pakistani soldiers surrendered to their advancing Indian counterparts, it turned out that the opposing commanders were former colleagues from pre-partition India. There was some kind of special langar, and they ended up organizing a cricket match between the two opponents, possibly at the cost of some valuable time. Mrs. Gandhi had to send a mild rebuke to the Indian commander, reminding him that he happened to be in the midst of a war.

Even in 1971, a significant number of senior soldiers on both sides were former colleagues, and while their professionalism meant that they were prepared to kill each other in combat, chivalry and magnanimity had not yet fallen prey to indoctrinated hatred.

Things have certainly changed for the worse today. We have to read news items about vicious intruders sneaking up to kill and to chop away heads of the dead enemy soldiers as memorablia.



E

Ahhhh ! .... the self-righteous Mahathir,

Let`s assume that Jews control the whole US of A and the wallstreet. I really don`t understand what is stopping the wallstreet jews to force American Dell and other companies to shutdown their Manufacturing plants in Malaysia and move them to friendly India. I am sure it must me damn easy for them to do that if we are to believe Mahathir`s worlds about those evil jews. May be that`s what these American companies should do... shutdown all their electronic manufacturing plants in Malaysia. Then we can see how the self righteous Mahathir would manage his country`s piggy-backing economy.

This article should be re-titled as HOW TO CONDUCT A SUCCESSFUL LOW INTENSITY WARFARE- AN INTRODUCTION.
Let me get to some intersting parts of it:

``Among the dynamic forces that contribute to low intensity conflict are change, discontent, poverty, violence, instability, religious extremism, Social imbalance, deprivation, exploitation and injustice....``

He has carefully omitted very crucial ``dynamic forces`` which may have bearing to his status : Martial Law, usurpation of civil authority by Army Officers, threatened judiciary etc. etc.

``Pakistan itself is a product of change through revolution. The two-nation theory, the very foundation of Pakistan was a revolutionary and radical theory during the period of low intensity conflict with the British Raj and the Hindu vested interests....``

This presumes that the interests of ordinary ``Indian muslims`` (was there any such monolith??) substantially different from their ordinary Hindu (where was the Hindu monolith at that time???) counterparts.

````After independence Pakistan unfortunately has failed to develop a form of government which allows social and occupational mobility through individual achievement and growth. Democratic institutions have not taken root and Pakistan’s long term interests are at grave risk with political, ethnic and sectarian groups exploiting the environment of political, social and economic instability. ````
This is typical Tinpot Dictator`s thesis- that internal problems has compromised ``LONG TERM INTERESTS`` of PAkistan. The ``LONG TERM INTERSTS`` are defined and re-defined by every martial ruler differently.

````Pakistan cannot be secure with out a strong and determined fighting force and this is not possible with out a just, equitable, and benevolent polity, in tandem with a vibrant and strong economy````

Translated it means- Guys you require a strong army to keep on fighting your TNT-s with the rest of the world- for this the government has to be conducive towards the army Generals.

``The possible use of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons (NBC) is also a grave and serious potential threat in Pakistan’s arena of LIC. The proliferation of NBC weapons and the possible threat of their use has greatly increased the subversive and terror potential of a nation or group with this capability. It is no secret that quite a large number of ethnic, sectarian and fundamentalist groups in the country are funded and supported by India who is in a position to provide NBC capability to some favorite group in Pakistan. Sources of external support to Pakistani radical groups are not restricted to India only. Many countries including some friendly and fraternal Muslim countries provide active or passive material and moral support to these radical and violent groups.``

All this rabble about India or some other country arming subversion with NBC is just another ploy to create a fear psychosis in the minds of the readers- it is called ``SEXING UP``- a ploy which Bush and Blair used to invade Iraq. So, now you can expect what this Khurafaati is going to say in the next para.

``Today Kashmir remains a thorn in the side of both countries and the very foundation of LIC. It is the smoldering volcano that could erupt into a nuclear holocaust. Kashmir is the root cause of tensions and LIC between the two Asian nuclear powers. Kashmir is symbolically and materially at the core of India-Pakistan antagonism. There is a third party to the conflict, the people of Kashmir whose rights are being denied. Both India and Pakistan exclude the independence option. India claims that Pakistan is fighting a proxy war in Kashmir, Pakistan justifies its policies and actions of supporting a home grown legitimate Kashmiri freedom struggle. ``

This the Mushy`s Propoganda theme- the ``CORE ISSUE THESIS`` and ``ROOT CAUSE THEORY``.

````Pakistan army has played a heroic role in containing all forms of low intensity conflict internal and external both.````
``Pakistan army has performed a monumental and historical task in containing and combating low intensity conflict in all its forms and manifestations.``
Great self-congratulatory references. This is BS! Army has propounded and executed this LIC Policy in order to justify its` existence and usurpation of the civil authority.

Now the last part on ``imperatives`` in a successful LIC operations which has baffled me:

How does this discussion on connect to the historiography of LIC ? What ``success`` is this guy talking -
1. success in ``combatting`` the LIC operations made by others on you- or
2. success in RUNNING a LIC operation against Indian by the PAkistani Army???

What is this bit about Political Dominance ,Unity of Effort, Adaptability, Legitimacy,Perseverance?

And this General Musharaff`s thesis on Legitimacy:
``Legitimacy is the willing acceptance of the right of a government to govern or of a group or agency to make and enforce decisions. Legitimacy is not tangible. Nor easily quantifiable. Popular votes do not always confer or reflect legitimacy. Legitimacy derives from the perception that authority is genuine and effective and uses proper agencies for reasonable purposes. No group or force can create legitimacy for itself, but it can encourage and sustain legitimacy by its actions. Legitimacy is the central concern of all parties involved in the conflict. It is also important to other parties who may be involved even indirectly. ``

It is just amazing!!! This guy is an Army Regular filled with grand visions about running LIC in neighbouring countries and has now put a part of his Jehadi Manual on LIC so that he can take a feedback from the chowkists and then build up an improved Manual on how to a run a successful LIC.
R@scals! They should be stripped of their uniform and flogged in public!!

Khurram,

What a great feat it would have been in the history of military conflict had the Pakistan Army fought to the last man instead of shamelessly surrendering? What have those 90 000 `good lives` achieved but bring utter shame to the nation? And that dog niazi... don`t even make me start....

I know this may sound inhuman or too emotional... but after committing horrible crimes against their own people, after raping countless Pakistani women (remember Bangladesh was still Pakistan then), and after murdering systematically the best of that society.... the least those `Good lives` could have done was to have died with honor... after all they were the inheritors of `glorious traditions`...


Shame on every soldier and an officer who surrendered in Dacca... Shame on Pakistan Army.

-YLH

re nakhok

``Last but not the least, Mahathir would be doing humanity a real favor if he can persuade the Bangladesh government not to push a war criminal as its candidate for Secretary General of OIC. It will truly make OIC a laughing stock of the world if it is already not so.``

Amen.

Salahuddin Qader Chowdhury, the alleged war criminal, is a disgrace to say the least. But then, as a wag opined, he and OIC deserve each other amply. Better to have the crook away from Dhaka and living with the creeps in Jeddah.

The two-nation theory wasn`t uniquely the subcontinent`s in the late 1940s. It was unfolding in Palestine as well. And, at the OIC summit, Dr. Mahathir has excorciated the Jews even more bitterly than Musharraf has excorciated India.

It might be easier to think through Musharraf`s rage on Kashmir if we first try to think through Mahathir`s rage against the Jews.

Sometimes it is wise to walk a little in the other party`s mocasins.

Cooler tempers might prevail if Mahathir mulls over what he would have done in 1948 if he were a holocaust survivor. Wouldn`t he have done everything in his power to defeat the Arab armies that invaded Israel?

More importantly, Mahathir might want to mull over the fact that Palestine was a two-way street at that moment in history. Yes, many a Palestinian ( 0.5 million?) fled his ancestral home in the wake of Palestine`s partition. But at least an equal number of Jews got thrown out from Arab countries (from Morocco to Iraq) and even from Iran.

Today, the majority of Jews in Israel are Shephardic Jews most of whom have either lived in Palestine for centuries or are from Arab lands.

In fact, the downfall of the Labor Party in Israel and the rise of the hard line Likud is specifically related to this demographic mix - the better educated Ashkenazic Jews (of Yiddish heritage) yielding to the numerically dominant Shephardic Jews.

Needless to say, these Shephardic Jews have no reason to feel that they owe anything to the Palestinians who had lost their ancestral home. More importantly, the Shephardic Jews have genuine cause to resent the Arab countries that threw them out of their ancestral home in the aftermath of Palestine`s partition.

If Mahathir mulls over the facts, I am sure he`ll see how illogical and unreasonable it was for him to denounce the Jewish people.

More importantly, Mahathir will realize how unreasonable are those that will not settle for peace for anything less than the Palestinians` right to return to their ancestral land.

Last but not the least, Mahathir would be doing humanity a real favor if he can persuade the Bangladesh government not to push a war criminal as its candidate for Secretary General of OIC. It will truly make OIC a laughing stock of the world if it is already not so.

As for the subcontinent, it would do well to recall what President Clinton had told Pakistanis pointedly in his TV address from Islamabad, ``This era does not reward people who struggle in vain to redraw borders with blood``.

Pakistan doesn`t need more real estate. It needs to be more concerned for its own citizens. Bringing home the stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh (aka ``Biharis``), for example, surely deserves a higher priority than winning real estate in Kashmir. The ``Biharis`` after all do call themselves Pakistanis, Kashmiris don`t.

Tariq Aqil (or be-akal?)

Why not rename the country ``PakiArmistan``? Then silly essays full of nonsense like:

[quote]
Pakistan army has performed a monumental and historical task in containing and combating low intensity conflict in all its forms and manifestations. In Kashmir, Rann of Kutch, Siachin, Kargil
[end-quote]

could become official policy. oooops, I am sorry, they are ALREADY official policy !! oh, no ....

re khurram
``By most accounts, the foot soldiers did show personal courage and bravery in the 3-week war. ``

If indeed there was `personal courage and bravery`, why is it that almost all who went into the war came out as POWs? Usually courage and bravery translate into fairly high casualties, especially on the vanquished side.

More likely the `personal courage and bravery` consisted of what Pakistani journalist Anthony Mascarenhas called the `ugliest genocide in history`. Really you cannot expect courage and bravery from an army whose most noticeable acheievements since 1949 have been regular assaults on its own people, its own cities, its own Constitution with an occasional set of extra judicial murders thrown in for giggles.

Re Manto
``The Pakistani nation should not and cannot afford to keep up such an army... a loser army which knows only how to take over the Capital city of Pakistan.``

Oh, don`t forget the port city also :(

Pakistan ought to keep an army, a real one that is not the bloated, corrupt, money-pit institution it has today. After all, Pakistan inherited one of the finest fighting forces in 1947 with good officers and chivalrous traditions. Get `em out of business, sports administration, and politics, trim up the fat (literally and otherwise), and fire half the general officers and Pakistan can have an army that can fight again and of which the nation can be proud. There ought to be a clear understanding that the army exists to serve the people of Pakistan not the other way around.

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Manto #3

I think you went a little overboard there.

The 90,000 ordinary soldiers trapped in Dacca were put in an unwinnable position by their bankrupt leadership. By most accounts, the foot soldiers did show personal courage and bravery in the 3-week war. It was just an impossible situation.
The one honorable thing the leadership did was to surrender and not waste 90,000 good lives.

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PS to #1 Tariq,

May I suggest that the Pakistan Army would have lived up to the praise you wish to heap on it... had every single soldier of the Pakistan Army would have fought to the last breath against the Indian onslaught during the Dacca Siege... had everyone of them died an honorable death, they would be heroes today... Instead they were cowards and loser... and you call them the `rock of gibraltar`.... what sense of fairness.

The Pakistani nation should not and cannot afford to keep up such an army... a loser army which knows only how to take over the Capital city of Pakistan.

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This article is bizarre and thoroughly pro-establishment...

While the author`s statement about the Pakistan Movement made only in passing is sad in its over simplification... what is worse is his analysis of the situation since 1947 and his glorification of our army. With articles like these which talk of `Low Intensity Conflict` and `limited wars`... not only is Jinnah`s Pakistan a distant dream .... but peace is a casualty... I am a patriot of Pakistan... but this kind of utter nonsense I don`t subscribe to.

Another way I guess to fool the people of Pakistan by the Military wallahs and their supporters....


May god save Pakistan from this guy i.e. Tariq Aqil.

-YLH