Low Intensity Conflict

this concept of low intensity conflict by Pakistani writers reminds me of the famous couplet by Sahir

zindagi apni sulagtee see chitaa hai Sahir
nu tu jaltee hai nuh bunn ke dhuaaN hotee hai.......

Tariq Aqil- Jehadi boy is on the right track to his regulars in the hell!!

We performed economically poorly and that we were almost a failed state was admitted by President Musharraf himeslf. He has told Pakistanis a number of time that in the October of 1999, we were at a stage that we could not have gone deeper in failure from there. He talks of economic development all the time.

I believe that Pakistanis should only be taught one lesson at schools. In order to become a world leader we have to be developed militarily, economically and socially. Thus development on these fronts should be our 1st religious duty.

For economic development, we should let the numbers speak. If the stability remains, and I believe that it will, unless of course the power that be decide that President Musharraf is becoming too big for their comfort, then Pakistan will see more successes.

All economic indicators are in our favor.

The problem would be if we had not recognized our failed performance of the yesteryears, especially those of the lost decade (90s).

...so what exactly does tariq uncle want? can someone summarize this article in 1 or 2 sentences?...thanks

ahmedzai`s economic analysis is as sound as Romair`s...

Both are delusional... in their estimate of the `lost` decade and the current regime`s performance...

-YLH

Mantolives (could you, godot and nazarhayatkhan be the same persons?):

Now let me ask you this:

1. Do you think Pakistan should have made a u-turn on our Talibani policy or not?

2. Do you think Pakistan needed to wipe out sectarian terrorism or not?

3. Do you think Pakistan needed a better education system, police system, women empowerment, etc. or not?

4. Do you think Pakistan needed a dam or two or not?

5. Do you think Pakistan`s export performance has increased or not?

6. Do you think Pakistan`s image in the world recently has improved or not (over that enjoyed by BB and Nawaz reigns)?

Please answer these questions and we will move forwards from here.

And btw, if you are of a Pakistani origin, then let us not make any personal attacks from now onwards. You must understand that as a Pathan I can and will retaliate - ``Piyar ka jawab piyar say day ga or aik laathi ka do lathion say``

;-)

as a Pathan ....

LOL....little boys run along, or you may be put to unwanted use. What else can a pathan do?

:)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Mushy`s contribution would be known at a hind sight after he goes and when the upright people who worked with him start speaking out at his hare brained commando strategies in making important decisions for Pakistan`s economy and polity.

1. Do you think Pakistan should have made a u-turn on our Talibani policy or not?

Ans: The talibani policy was the firmly grounded in the Army`s pan-Islamic adventurism. Yes we should have made the uturn ... but shouldn`t have been on the wrong way in the first place... courtesy ISI.


2. Do you think Pakistan needed to wipe out sectarian terrorism or not?

Ans: Who created Sectarian terror? Who created SSP? Who created Anti-Shiite feelings in Pakistan? Army, Army and Army.


3. Do you think Pakistan needed a better education system, police system, women empowerment, etc. or not?

Ans: Will the army provide this? No... maybe for its own members ... but not for the people of Pakistan... Pakistan needs to abolish Hudood laws, blasphemy laws and the notorious qanun-e-shahadat ... Has Musharraf done this? No!!

4. Do you think Pakistan needed a dam or two or not?

Ans: What does this have to with the Army?

5. Do you think Pakistan`s export performance has increased or not?

Ans: Has it? Please do quote some figures on this one.


6. Do you think Pakistan`s image in the world recently has improved or not (over that enjoyed by BB and Nawaz reigns)?


Ans: Pakistan`s image all over the world was the best under the democratically elected woman prime minister`s government... there is a world of a difference... I have lived in the US both before and after the Musharraf coup and certainly it was under Musharraf`s regime that our image was destroyed world over... Nawaz Sharif though criticized for attempts at theocracy, was largely seen as a democratically elected Prime Minister who wanted peace with India and good Economics.

In 1997 CNN commented:

``Pakistan is still far from realizing Jinnah`s dream. But as it celebrates 50 years of independence, it seems fitting that Pakistan`s democratic identity appears to be finally coming of age.``

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9708/India97/pakistan/snapshot/index.html

#26 by Mantolives on October 18, 2003 9:39pm PT

Ditto!!!! I am in complete agreement,

The Root Cause- Army

Mantolives at # 26:

Continued from previous post.

Q4. Do you think Pakistan needed a dam or two or not?
Ans: What does this have to with the Army?

My response: This is the most critical factor for Pakistanis for we need water reservoirs at every cost. Previous Governments did not take any action on the matter under their populist agenda. They would not take on any opposition, whereas in the prime national interest a decision for building water reservoirs has to be made. Its President Musharraf and his Government that has made the decision.

5. Do you think Pakistan`s export performance has increased or not?
Ans: Has it? Please do quote some figures on this one.

My response: Please Check out:

http://news.tradingcharts.com/futures/4/7/40522074.html
http://www.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/0/002d11d002feb7b5c1256d0b0053d1b3?OpenDocument
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/030829/4/13myb.html

6. Do you think Pakistan`s image in the world recently has improved or not (over that enjoyed by BB and Nawaz reigns)?
Ans: Pakistan`s image all over the world was the best under the democratically elected....

My response:
1. Yet under their regime, Pakistan was about to be declared as a rogue state.
2. Pakistan was being isolated internationally.
3. You cannot deny that both regimes were trying to dislodge each other`s Government.
4. Economically, who could endorse yellow cab scheme versus Red or Green Tractor scheme? The only foreign investment under BB`s Government was Power Plants, who we found out later were totally uneconomical. Even the lady who brought American industrialists to Pakistan, was sacked by Clinton`s Administration under corruption charges.
5. Both the regimes were unable to declare extremist outfits as terrorists.

Concludes.

Mantolives at # 26:

Red Alert - Long Post

Q1. Do you think Pakistan should have made a u-turn on our Talibani policy or not?
Ans: The talibani policy was the firmly grounded in the Army`s pan-Islamic adventurism....

My response: This flawed policy was something admitted by President Musharraf at the outset. His announcement to curb extremism came on 14th August 2001, that is, before 9/11. You have to understand that strategies are made in the best national interest. Some times they backfire. An adjustment or even a reversal has to be made. Kindly recall that America made a u-turn on its policy versus Contras. India made a u-turn on its policy of self-imposed industrial isolation. Better late than never.


Q2. Do you think Pakistan needed to wipe out sectarian terrorism or not?
Ans: Who created Sectarian terror? Who created SSP?....

My response: You are talking about the past, whereas I am looking at present and future. While you can blame army of sectarianism, you cannot do so President Musharraf and present set of military. See above. He made Pakistanis take a u-turn. His philosophy of `Enlightened Moderation` has been lauded by everyone in the world and has to be appreciated.

Q3. Do you think Pakistan needed a better education system, police system, women empowerment, etc. or not?
Ans: Will the army provide this? No... maybe for its own members ...

My response:
1. The current Government is implementing new education policy. For example, its the Jamiat Goons who were once and are now again bent upon bringing the standard of education down. The new educational policy requires no student politics on campus.

2. President Musharraf has spoken many times against curbing extremism. All the moderate Sunni Muslims, minority Muslim sects and other minorities are with him. Who is resisting him? MMA, PML N, and PPP.

3. He has empowered Pakistani women. The LFO mandates 6 out of 19 provincial seats for women (plus more as women can contest on open seats as well). 72 women out of 340 or so members of the NA are mandated to be women, plus more as they can contest on open seats. Our assemblies are much more colorful now. Besides, women are being encouraged to make decisions on matters concerning them directly. With the passage of time, these women parliamentarians are expected to bring revolutionary changes in the matters adversely impacting them like Hudood Ordinance. But because of our culture, this will take time. Now honestly speaking answer this: Who do you think will be a major resistance to wiping out such ordinances? President Musharraf and his team or Mullas?

4. It took President Musharraf (``a dictator``) and his Government to open up media. Consequently, we see a plethora of private channels being beamed all over the world.

Continued on the next post.

Anyone who follows your line of argument closely can see the fundamental flaws in them... I quoted CNN as a mirror of the World opinion... Pakistan became a pariah after October 12th 1999... Musharraf has built up the Mullahs in NWFP, he is behind sectarian terror... reason: He wants to prove that he is the rational and sane option in the whole of Pakistan...

His economic performance is nothing to write home about.... the reserves and business confidence in Karachi has other reasons... including the MQM`s inclusion in the Government of Sindh... the reserves ofcourse are because of the fall out of 9/11 and the end of Hundi...

As for women`s empowerment ... and what have those 72 back benchers done in the assembly so far? We don`t believe in cosmetic makeovers... Women in Pakistan will be empowered when Hudood ordinance is abolished and when Women are returned to their original equal position in the eye of the law.

-YLH

arjun_m#7
``Pakistan is the only economy in South Asia whose Gross National Income (GNI) and per capita income have shrunk in the last five years. Pakistan`s per capita income has declined from $480 in 1997 to $420 in 2001 and GNI from $62 billion to $59.6 billion. ``

These kind of statistics are often quite misleading. This ``decline`` in Pakistan`s GNI, I think, was almost entirely due to a dramatic decline in Pakistani rupee during those years (I believe it went down from less than Rs. 50 to almost Rs. 70 to a US dollar). This was not marked by any similar loss of the Pakistani rupee`s purchansing power. I suspect that there has been a similar increase in the dollar measured performance of the Pakistani economy, as the its rupee has appreciated significantly post 9/11.

Mantolives:

``Anyone who follows your line of argument closely can see the fundamental flaws in them... I quoted CNN as a mirror of the World opinion... Pakistan became a pariah after October 12th 1999``

Yet the same channels have praised President Musharraf and his Government. I don`t think that we should believe these media sources as they have their own hidden agenda. recently, I have visited Canada, UK, Spain, Morocco, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. and found their media to be appreciative of President Musharraf.

``Musharraf has built up the Mullahs in NWFP, he is behind sectarian terror... reason: He wants to prove that he is the rational and sane option in the whole of Pakistan... ``

This is a typical extremist Indian (followers of Advanis, Joshis, and Modis who are proven killers of innocent Christians, Hindus and Muslims) line of propaganda. In order to develop your own line, why don`t you talk to PML N and PPP stalwarts and ask them to say the same on media. Let us see if the people you are praising so much are able to support you on these statements.

Also, you must visit NWFP and Pakhtoon belt of Balochistan. You will find that pro-MMA support in these areas is a reality. Please come and talk to our people.

``His economic performance is nothing to write home about.... the reserves and business confidence in Karachi has other reasons... including the MQM`s inclusion in the Government of Sindh... the reserves ofcourse are because of the fall out of 9/11 and the end of Hundi... ``

I agree with you. That is why I never mentioned this. I only asked you about successful export performance, which cannot be attributed to any of your reasons.

``As for women`s empowerment ... and what have those 72 back benchers done in the assembly so far? We don`t believe in cosmetic makeovers... Women in Pakistan will be empowered when Hudood ordinance is abolished and when Women are returned to their original equal position in the eye of the law. ``

At least there are back benchers. What were your BB or Nawaz doing on this front? Hudood Ordinace is again a typical Indian way of cornering Pakistanis on this board. Let me ask you what were your BB and Nawaz doing on this matter?

Btw, I will apologize to you on one matter. before exchanging views with you, I took you for an Indian ( ignore this if you are an Indian). Reason is that I went through last 100 of your posts and found that in not a single one of them you supported Pakistanis. I also found you not challenging any anti-Pakistani or anti-Islamic post by any Indian. You were always criticising posters of Pakistani origin.