Bollywood: The Show Must Grow On

Re: # 20 hi there,

yaar i`v been searching ``Marhi da diva`` for last 2 years but couldn`t find.
could u please tell me any source where i can get it.
where have u seen thin movie?
please.......reply. i shell be really thankfull.

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plats,

Yes, I`ve heard good things about Ismat Apa ke Naam; not too sure we`ll ever get to see it here. I`ve seen Govind Nihalani`s film but I don`t like them very much. Yes, they may be very real and true to life but they`re also hopelessly bleak. If I want to experience real life, well then I`ll just go down to the local katchi abaadi and spend a day there. I don`t need to watch a movie to be depressed.

I`m sure you`ve seen some of Sai Paranjpye`s films. Sparsh, Dishaa, Katha, Saaz, Chashme Buddoor. She`s a film-maker who also pays a great deal of attention to detail but doesn`t forget to include a healthy dose of hope and humor. Do watch Dishaa if you get the chance. It`s about the Bombay`s immigrant workers who come in from the villages to people its industries. Though the story is basically a grim one, the kindness with which Paranjpye tells it is extraordinary.

Shyam Benegal`s another film-maker in the same mould. Manthan, Mammo, Hari Bhari are all good films.

Ansari #44,

Interesting. I was about to mention the restaurant/chipkali-wali scene in Satya as one
of the more memorable ones. Anyway, you may want to watch ``dil pe mat le yaar`` -
Bajpai is quite convincing in that film and there are scenes where him and Tabu feed
off of each other nicely.

Om Puri was in Ardh Satya. One of Nihalani`s best, I`d say. By the way, have you
seen his ``Rukmavati ki haveli`` ? I never had a chance, and stores tend to not carry it.
Nihalani has a very discerning eye for detail, much like the Bengali director Gautam
Ghosh - they both started their careers in cinematography.

About Naseer, perhaps he is bored by the roles he keeps getting. People who have
seen him recently in the play ``Ismat Apa ke Naam`` say he was fabulous. The man
just needs a competent vehicle for him to shine in. I watched one of his old ones -
Paar, a few months ago. He is beyond convincing in that.

Anuradha/Ansari,

Gulzar is surely different. I just find his pots and pans references a bit jarring
at times, that`s all.

rsridhar #47,

Serious Indian movies are taken seriously in the west, or anywhere else in the world
for that matter. Most of Bollywood is not supposed to be serious - it is there to provide
some sort of ``wholesome family entertainment``, if you wish. Fantasy is an integral part
of it.

re:#41 by Brat
I saw Chalte chalte, Jhankar beats, Bhoot recently. I see Indian movies when someone assures me they are good. Sometimes i see them just for the heck of it. I am in US and this is my way of connecting with India.
I thought chalte chalte was good with good performances by both SRK and Rani Mukherjee. But the plot is the same. Boy falls in love, chases the girl all the way to Greece. You can see similar plot in DWDL, Pardes and so on.
Bhoot is better than any Ramsay movies i had seen in the past. I thought Jhankar beats was good. Its theme was off-beat and music was good. Songs were there for a reason. Rahul Bose is a good actor. Juhi Chawla has matured from her hip-gyrating days.
Sridhar

re:#40 by Brat
We are talking about common culture. Hollywood movies show a man and woman kissing. Most bollywood movies do not (some do; again a copy of hollywood theme; do men and women kiss in public in India? May be in some places they do but that is not a common practice).
We are talking of what is common practice. Some part of India has always been westernised. For eg parts of Bombay, Goa etc. If a bollywood movie is showing western value system, the story should appropriately match it. It was pathetic to see Urmila Matondkar walking the bylanes of Bombay in skimpy clothes in a movie where she is trying to get into a movie business (had Jackie Shroff, Amir Khan among others). She is shown to be from a middle class family with conservative values and yet there she was, going around doing her belly-dancing and rubbing shoulders with street urchins.
Bollywood has never reflected the true value system, the true society that India is. It always went for spinning a web of dreams and fantasy. Remember Helen gyrating her hips to Asha`s music 40 years ago in a number of movies? Good ones with good songs but again, do not represent India. That is why they are not taken seriously in the west.
Sridhar
P.S: All the songs in Teesri Manzil are my personal favourite. The one with Helen and Shammi (O Haseena Zulfon wali...) was spectacular with great music by Laxmi Pyare.

re:#39 by kabuliwallah
Thanks for the info.
There was a marathi play i believe on that subject. In the movie Agnivarsha, they changed the original plot taken from Mahabharat. They introduced this love angle between Arvasu and the tribal girl, which is not there in the original story. In the original story, sages Raibhya and Bharadwaja are neighbours and close friends. Latter`s son Yavakrida (changed to Yavvakri in the movie), on finding former`s daughter-in-law (Parvasu`s wife) alone, ravishes her. Raibhya on discovering this creates a demon by his spiritual powers. The demon kills Yavakrida. Bharadwaja, on hearing the news of his son`s death, is heart broken and kills himself but not before he has cursed Raibhya, his own friend. The curse is fulfilled when Parvasu kills his own father mistaking him for a wild beast one night when he is returning home from his Yagna (performed for bringing rain to the place on the orders of the king).

Still, Agnivarsha was a good attempt. It had its roots in Indian epic. Raveena Tandan was spectacular in that movie. There are umpteen number of such stories in Indian epics. South Indian movie makers have been regularly making mythological movies for a number of years now. But bollywood has kept away from religous/mythological themes (barring some here and there).
Sridhar

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plats:

yes, i remember that scene; she slaps him back if i remember correctly, after satya leaves. there was this other scene where they take satya and his girlfriend out for a meal and pyaari tells them about the ``chipkali`` waali film! the camaraderie between bhiku and pyaari was touching.

i saw ijaazat again a few months ago. i really liked it. i know what you`re saying about the lyrics seeming contrived and i can`t say i disagree with you sometimes but there are often times when he recovers something elemental even from among the pots and pans and ordinary things of daily existence and makes a poem of it. ``do naina ki hai yeh kahani, thorasa baadal, thorasa pani, aur ik kahani.`` (masoom)

gulzar`s also an excellent director. he brings a poet`s perspective to the films he makes, often leaving us a little beguiled for it. have you seen namkeen? each character in that film is a story in themselves and the way he`s brought them altogether and made a tale of it is wow.

naseer`s a great actor and the way he adapts himself to the character is often remarkable, though of late i don`t think he`s been trying too hard. i saw teen deewarein a while back and it seemed to me he was just going through the motions. i say this because i`ve seen naseer in films like katha and sparsh and ijaazat and manthan and pestonjee where he`s played completely different and independently convincing characters. even the ridiculously cool jalwa was better than teen deewarein.

on the other hand, om puri just seems to be getting better and better. bollywood calling was a riot. so was chachi 420. is this the same man who did ardh satya?

enough rambling . . . must get back to work!

#42 by ironman

`Another big blooper...apparently the bhoot needs a medium (urmila`s body) to express itself in this world (take revenge, etc). Ok, that`s resonable. But in the ending, the bhoot apparently decides to dispense with her services and take matters in hand directly and send fardeen khan flying hither and thither. `

yeah, that was completely ridiculous, wasn`t it? there was a lot of promise in the first half, but the second ruined it all. Bhoot wasn`t a patch on Kaun. A total disappointment.

Kabuliwalah -

you didn`t like Chupke Chupke!!?? are you talking about the dharmendra- amitabh- sharmila starrer??

Plats 8 -

what I like about Gulzar`s lyrics is that they are so different and original, completely avoiding cliches and run of the mill stuff...

Brat-

hey I`m glad to find someone else who liked One Two ka Four! I thought it was very slickly made and entertaining. Pity it flopped.

Fellows, my 2 cents:

In 1987, after watching dharmendra slaughter a million baddies with a never-emptying gun in `hukumat`, I vowed never to watch a hindi movie again. That was also the first time I walked out halfway thru a movie.


Recently there was a great hype of bollywood producing these wonderful horror movies. Ram Gopal Verma was everywhere. And so, with some hope, I picked up `Bhoot` from the local Indian groc.

While it certainly was better than the Ramsay brothers crap...bollywood has many miles to go it would seem.

Those stairs, that bed and urmila`s painted face...where did I see that before? The Exorcist...of course! Was Bhoot then a cheap copy of the Exorcist? Sadly, no...not even a cheap copy.

While in the big-E, a constant and wonderful tension is maintained between the believer and the rationalist in the viewer almost upto the very end...no such hope from bollywood. The rational psychiatrist (Victor bannerjee) is put in his place pretty early enough.

Another big blooper...apparently the bhoot needs a medium (urmila`s body) to express itself in this world (take revenge, etc). Ok, that`s resonable. But in the ending, the bhoot apparently decides to dispense with her services and take matters in hand directly and send fardeen khan flying hither and thither.

Couldn`t they have done at least the digital imaging with a modicum of finesse? The watchman`s twisted head on his shoulders looked like a cut-and-paste by a teenager, the edges clearly visible. Sheeesh!

just btw rsridhar, which movies from bollywood have you seen recently? and why did you choose to see those? If you choose to see your movies blindly, or try and judge what other people find entertaining obviously you will be disappointed. I`m sure you don`t go and watch every movie that comes of hollywood?

plats #37

Well said. The common criticism of bollywood is to find the most common and pathetic examples and say this is what you like, or people who like this are morons. Hello!! Not all movies made in Hollywood are good either, but like you said - they are technically far superior, therefore the shortcomings are not that glaringly apparent.

Hollywood lacks one major ingredient of Bollywood movies -- that is intense emotion and colour.

rsridhar: what I`m telling you is that it`s no longer valid to say that being Indian means one particular thing - that Indian college kids do not wear this, or do not do that -- none of that holds anymore. My counterparts who went to colleges in India told me of their life and my life here in North America seemed much tamer.

rsridhar #36

Sorry, but Ben Hur and Ten Commandments are both very poorly made movies.
There have been tons of Bollywood movies with tighter storylines, better direction
and infinitely better acting. Hollywood is as escapist as most Hindi films - it just has
a veneer of realism slapped on. Are you seriously implying that one does not need
to suspend disbelief to watch a random Hollywood flick ? Slick one-liners does not
a good movie make.

Most of Bollywood is a modern-day vaudeville and some. But it has always retained a
small set of directors trying to do something different - some of the movies discussed
in this thread testify to that.

re: sameerJB # 20

I too loved Marhi da Deeva...I thought Raj Babbar was superb...the scenery in the movie reminded me a lot of the fields around Jauharabad...among movies made in native languages, movies made by the malayalam director adoor gopalakrishnan are very good too...I was watching chupke chupke the other day...and my friends were telling me that the original Bengali version is awesome and much better...I didnt like chupke chupke much though...if possible, try to get your hands on movies directed by G.R. Vishwanath in Telugu...some of the old ones are very good...cheers

Kabuli

re: rsridhar # 13

the movie`s name is Agni Varsha...I found it a little contrived and long winded...but Milind Soman I thought acted well...I was more disappointed however with the ruins of Hampi...Hampi is variously described as being magnificent in the hey day of the Vijayanagara empire...granted that it is now in ruins, but still, they looked like an abandoned bollywood movie set...regards

Kabuli

re:#33 by Brat
Bollywood is not a movie to watch if you want to see some reality. Bollywood is escapist. It is the opium of the poor masses who can, in one place, see everything: from some music, to some belly dancing by Madhuri Dixit to some fight scenes and so on. It is never a serious business. I met a Ukranian guy some years ago in St. Louis, MO, where i was doing my fellowship and this guy told me how much he liked Hindi movies (apparently hindi movies are a rage in Ukraine) but he regretted that the newer ones were a poor copy of Hollywood. We do not see a Gunga Jumna or Ram aur Shyam or Baiju Bawra now-a-days. Not even Sholay, which still retained some Indianness. Now-a-days, when i watch a Bolly movie, i get the feeling i am watching a poor version of Hollywood. And the dance scenes (PT drills) are nauseating.

BTW, i was in India only 2 years ago and visited Madras and Bangalore, among other places. So, if you are telling me that India has suddenly become highly westernised, i won`t believe it.
Sridhar

re:#29 by nasah
I have a pet theory about watching Bollywood movies. You need to leave your brains behind before you enter a theater. Or you need to be a moron. There is no other way to watch it. Or else you are addicted to it like many in this chowk seem to be.
I know a good movie when i see one. I sometimes see some old movies just because they had some lovely songs. But, the newer ones do not have that kind of songs. They are technically better made, but the story is the same old damn one: boy meets a girl (with some variation recently: boy meets a boy or girl meets a girl and i am to believe this is creativity!) and they fall in love. And, why the heck are the heroes always Chikna and heroine always Chikni. Can`t bollywood find some ordinary folks? And nothing can be more insulting than these chikna logs breaking into a song and dance sequence when the movie is just about making some sense. No wonder when Naseer or Om Puri come on scene, it is such a relief.

And, all the players have to dress up like their western counterparts, and girls even dye up their hair to look like a blonde. It is pathetic. Why can`t bollywood make movies on say Kargil which was such a big issue (a good war movie, not one with a love story and melodrama)? Or on any of the umpteen historical characters from History: Ashoka, Akbar. What about Taj Mahal? When Bollywood starts making serious movies of the caliber of Ben Hur, Ten commandments, and the like, i will take it seriously.
Sridhar

Ansari #28,

``Chashme buddoor`` was wonderful - aapne yaad dila diya; need to go get it from the
store today. Yes, Saeed Jaffrey is quite talented. The main problem with Bollywood
is that it takes good actors and reduces them to caricatures.

Bajpai and Shefali Chhaya were outstanding in Satya. Do you remember the scene
where Bajpai slaps her for nagging him ? He does a wonderful job of being just
a little out of control, but regains control with effortless ease. Very good work - I
can only think of a couple more people (Naseer being one) who could`ve pulled that
off.

Watched Ijazat yesterday after a decade or so. Nice movie, but does anyone
else find Gulzar`s lyrics a bit contrived at times, as opposed to say Sahir ? I don`t
even know or speak Urdu, and it still bothers me.

it was how the story of mughal e azam was handled that makes it so brilliant: everything about the film was spectacular--it was the only Indian film I have seen to rival any of the 60s Hollywood epics.
**
I want to watch Barsaat ki raat....its difficult to get hold of the classic golden oldies in the UK as most video stores don`t stock them cos of the low demand...

**
Madhubala is my favourite all time actress...
***
Yes, Satya and Company are both brilliant films...
**

Matloob Hasan:
Good overview of what the industry is going through, there is certainly a lot of excitement and a lot happening. Last night I saw a program about India-Canada trade relations, and it talked about a few Canadians who have gone to India to be part of Bollywood (Lisa Ray of course being the most famous, btw Deepa Mehta is also Canadian - see scout Canada is better!).

nasah: (other critics of hindi movies)
so what you`re saying is you`re sick of `the SAME over exaggerated theatrical dialogues and the SAME garish hip-gyrating song-n-dance -- (joke-of-a-Nautanki) -- routines? `
and you don`t watch anything that comes out of bollywood?

I think all the people on this board agree on a few things:
a) not all movies that come out of bollywood are good, neither are all of them bad. for the die hard critics, try watching one of the recommended movies on this board and then come back to tell us what you think. don`t expect miracles, just seedha/saadha desi entertainment

b) bollywood has certain charm despite its sometimes overexaggerated, larger than life, unrealistic plot lines.
[btw what do you think Arnold`s films in hollywood do? the hero consistently escapes any kind of attack the bad guys can come up with, and also always gets the girl]

c) bollywood like any other `art` goes through its growing pains, we`re witnessing certain exciting trends....certain things are changing, we have technically better films, we have slightly progressing storylines (loved Dil Chahta Hai for that -- even the song and dance routine didn`t look out of place), we`re challenging the norms, we`re doing what movies are supposed to do - provide entertainment.

rsridhar #13:
when was the last time you visited India? If you care to walk through the major cities (Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore to be sure, I`m sure other Indians on board can add to the list) - you`ll notice that the younger generation does wear daring clothes.
And you can`t blame movies for this -- people are expressing themselves and their sexuality. The world truly is a global village now, so one part of the world cannot be `untouched`, the trend in North America (see Madonna) towards things `South Asian` is along the same lines.

Ansari #25

Aamir that conversation was hilarious. I could just picture you and your nani on the phone. I think it should be part of some movie.

Anuradha #31
I agree Koi Mil Gaya is good family entertainment, certain things could`ve been done better - but overall it`s pretty good. The direction was ok, Hrithik was good, Preity was great to watch :), when they started doing the dance routine I went oh no, but enjoyed the dance and scenic view nonetheless!

Hrithik is good in this movie and in Fiza, also Mission Kashmir, but other than these I haven`t been able to watch too much of him, and that`s not because of his acting talent or lack of it, probably because of the kind of film offers he gets. In this matter, I respect Aamir Khan, after a few initial bad choices - the guy has done some very good movies, and I always look forward to watching his movies.

To fellow bollywood enthusiasts
btw have you guys noticed how some movies are incorporating this recognition of the stereotypes of hindi movies? Bollywood/Hollywood has the hero heroine romancing on both Bollywood and Hollywood storylines. I love hindi movie spoofs and directors who can enjoy the industry they work with.

This board gives me the names of some movies that I can watch :). It`s hard to predict which ones will be bad - I haven`t gone to see Main Prem ki Diwani Hoon, even though at one point in time I had great expectations from Sooraj Barjatya.

among the newer movies my must watch list is:
Lagaan, Dil Chahta Hai, Monsoon Wedding, Bend it Like Beckham, Aankhein, Bombay Boys, Company, (Road - for doing something different), Satya, Split Wide Open, Mr. and Mrs. Iyer (excellent movie), Fiza, Hera Pheri, Viraasat, The Terrorist, Vaastav, Maachis

I love the following for the cinematic treat they provide:
Hum Dil De Chuke Sanam, Kareeb, Chalte Chalte (Greece!), Koi Mil Gaya (I don`t know where this place is, but it`s beautiful - could be Canada :) ), Devdas, One Two Ka Four (loved the depiction of a few things in the film)

Just entertainment:
Biwi No. 1, Dil Pe Mat le yaar, Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani, Haseena Maan Jaayegi, Pyar Kiya To Darna Kya

Different storylines/social issues:
Zakhm, Mrityudand, Filhaal, Shakti, Chandni Bar, Hari Bhari, Maya, Lajja, East is East, Aa ab laut chale, Bhaji on the Beach (by the same director as Bend it Like Beckham), Kya Kehna (Preity Zinta), Koi Mere Dil Se Pooche (Jaya is amazing in this, Sanjay Kapoor is ok)

Any suggestions from other Chowkies for movies along these lines I would certainly appreciate!

#25 by Ansari

lol `Main mohabbat ki bhookhi hoon`... very funny... tell your nani to copyright it...

and plats/ansari...

I missed dil pe mat le yaar, don`t know how... and shatranj ke khilari... I remember being dragged to the theatre to see this one when I was a kid... at that age I thought it was pretty dull hehe...

and btw... speaking of Koi Mil Gaya, the last 30 min of this film are quite lousy, but till then it`s very enjoyable... Hrithik is wonderful. Sadly the director lets it slide towards the end. just thought I`d warn you in case any of you watch this movie on my recommendation... kahin mujhe aap logon ki gaaliyan na sunni pade... :)

#29 by nasah

to answer your question... no, we don`t! :)

I see that on this board an Indo/Pakistani love fest is in progress vis vis the Indian films – of the past and the present.

Now let ME put some -- Rung meiN Bhang -- at this festive occasion.

here is my assessment of the Indian films

the Indian films -- with rare exceptions -- are over exaggerated, amateurish -- unimaginative, -- reality-relieved, -- devoid of reasoning or rationale -- devoid of spatial and time relations and perceptions -- repetitive and rut loving -- dull unexciting pieces of male chauvinistic piggish emotional theatrics -- and the ever Subservient Indian Naris’s Crying routines –

they are products– of a film industry -- that is like an 80 year old sewage sewer oozing with puggled productions -- of pure puerile ‘Entertainment’ -- that in many ways ARE perpetual permanent purveyors of Indo/Pakistani Social/Cultural Backwardness.


Don’t U guys ever-get-tired of the SAME over exaggerated theatrical dialogues and the SAME garish hip-gyrating song-n-dance -- (joke-of-a-Nautanki) -- routines?

of how much I miss those REAL Nautankis:-)

plats: loved satya . . . you`re right, manoj bajpai was outstanding, as was shefali chaaya as pyaari . . . compare that with her performance in monsoon wedding and you realise what a gifted actress she is . . . haven`t seen dil pe mat le yaar yet . . . shatranj ke khilari was amusing, particularly the bit in the end when they have the confrontation in the village; sab ki asliyat saamne aa jaati hai . . . sanjeev kumar was a great actor and saeed jaffrey matched him quite nicely . . . did you see saeed jaffrey as lallan mian in chashme buddoor? that was one helluva film

``#17 by Naqshbandi on August 22, 2003 9:53am PT
dost-mittar:

you are entitled to your opinion but Mughal e Azam consistently comes in almost every critics list of the 10 greatest Indian films ever.``

Do you even know the story??. The father says she is my slave girl, the son says I love her.
Boy-O-Boy. Both father and son chasing a slave girl. Result ``honour killing`` (of the slave girl of cource). Completely acceptable is it not??

I think you should watch Barsat Ki Raat. Music and Madhubalaji is simply out of this world. Bharat Bhoooooshan is the only idiot around. Perhaps the best Quawallies (is this how it is spelt??). Roshanji`s master piece.


Mantolives,

Please watch ``Garm Hawa``. Perhaps the best ever Balaraj Sahaniji performed. It is about partition; and effects and affects it had on musilms who decided to stay in India. Almost all the movie is about Muslims. Almost all the actors and actresses and hindus.

Watch ``Gaman`` if you do not want to, (and think you do not), mix politicts with (what else???)

Watch Nasirudin Shah, portraying Mirza Galibji. (I think movie name is same. Not very sure)

Watch Sanjeev Kumar and Amjad Khan in Shataranj Ke Khiladi.

Quality (or lack of it) of Indian movies was not and never will dependant of ilks of Urstruly. All this guy will do whine and whine. He is a looser. He always will be. The guy sold half of his (and yours too) country in 1971. Come next few years of his rule, all the rest will also be up for grabs too. The guy knows it. Blaming and hating others is what all he can do, to get right price or prize. Never will do anything constructive. Will run away and claim? Pathatic.

Sarwarji.

Some of the movies we (in India) make are sooo bad, it makes me ....... (fill in)

Yogiraj Patil

Anuradha#24/Ansari #25,

LOL. The long title zamana in recent times started with Mahesh Bhatt, I think.
Remember ``Phir teri kahani yaad aayi``. Had a couple of nice songs.

Anuradha - Satya was indeed an extremely well made movie. Manoj Bajpai
has loads of talent which is being consistently unused and misused. Have
you seen ``Dil pe mat le yaar`` ? Liked that one quite a bit.

Dost-mittar/Ansari,

Have you seen Satyajit Ray`s ``Satranj ke Khiladi`` ? Excellent film. I thought
Shabana, Sanjiv Kumar and Saeed Jaffrey were wonderful, as was the direction.

Anuradha:

``those long syrupy titles were getting so sickening... Main prem ki diwani hoon, Hum aapke dil mein rehte hai, Rehna hai tere dil mein, Hamara dil aapke paas hai ya phir kahin kho gaya hoga zara dekh kar to bataaiye...``

LOL! My nani`s in town and I called her up the other day to see how she was doing.

``Kya ho raha hai, Nani?``

``Kal raat ko hum beth gae they film laga ke; tumne dekhi hai, wo Hrithik aur Kareena ki jo naee waali hai?``

``Kaun si, Nani, naam kya hai?``

``Naam uska . . . dekho yaad nahin aa raha . . . ek minute . . . haan . . . Main Mohabbat ki Bhooki Hoon, yehi naam tha.``

``Kya! Aisi tau koi film nahin! Aap kahin Main Prem ki Deewani Hoon ki baat tau nahin kar raheen?``

``Haan haan wohi . . . ek tau ye filmein aur unkay vaahiyaat naam! Tumne dekhi hai?``

one good thing about bollywood films now is that short and sweet titles are making a comback - Style, Bhoot, Footpath, LOC to name a few... god, those long syrupy titles were getting so sickening... Main prem ki diwani hoon, Hum aapke dil mein rehte hai, Rehna hai tere dil mein, Hamara dil aapke paas hai ya phir kahin kho gaya hoga zara dekh kar to bataaiye... yuck!!

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Banjaara#19:
I agree with you regarding all those films, except Jhanak jhanak payal baaje. That film was a classic and one of the very few whose videos I own, but only for its dances. Take away the dances and some beautiful outdoor photography and there is nothing, except, maybe, for the great acting of the marathi actor who played Gopi`s father in the film.

And Mughal-e-Azam was worth it, if only for the great `mishran`` of two raagas in Bade Ghulam`s ``Prem Jogan``. But overall, yes, it was a good but not a great film.

Best of the Indian movies are art movies made in native languages - particularly in Bengali. My all time favorite Indian movie would be a Panjabi movie, named ``MaRhi da Diva``, only because I have not watched too many of art movies in other languages. One Bengali movie was one of the final 16 in a recent Swiss film festival which was won by a desi movie, Khamosh Pani.

dost-mittar #11

How could you miss V. Shanta Ram`s Jhanak jhanak Payal Baaje . How can any one forget the Tandav by Gopi Krishna. You also missed Pyasa, Kaghaz ke Phool, Garam Hava, Boot Polish, Do Bigha Zameen,Foot Path, Ganga Jamuna, Ankur, Nishant and Ardh Satya.

Mughl-e-Azam`s saving grace was Madhubala`s superb acting, compared to her,Prithviraj was theatrically loud, and Dilip Kumar was completely overshadowed by her performance. Naushad`s music was good specially `` Mohe Panghat pe Nandlal cheR gayo re`` by Lata and ``Prem Jogan bun gayee`` by BaRe Ghulam Ali Khan Saheb. Dialogues were superb, even though at times Agha Hashar type. A good film but not a great film.

veeresh #5:
[Nowadays, urstruly ji, Bollywood movies are usuallyabout bright young NRI girls with doctorates in interstellar medicine and rap falling in love with TWO boys, one each from India (urban) and India (pind).]

Because young NRI girls are raised on beef and the TWO Indian boys are vegetarians...:-))

dost-mittar:

you are entitled to your opinion but Mughal e Azam consistently comes in almost every critics list of the 10 greatest Indian films ever.

**
As for Umrao Jaan, Pakeezah, Chaudhvin ka Chand, Pyaasa etc. they are all excellent films and amongst my favourites.

Nasiruddin Shah`s films tend to be generally v good. Raj Kapoor also made excellent films--especially Awaara, Shri 420, Mera Naam Joker and Sangam. His other one`s were also good.

Manto: There was a letter in Jang applauding the ban on Indian channels. The same author also asked for a ban on Pakistani channels such as Geo, the same you said actually present much more entertainment, because they spreas obscenity.

I think the author was maybe related to Asif Naqshbandi :)

re: bollywood movies
I have seen some perceptible changes in the quality of bollywood movies in the last few years. What many seem to lack is a good story line. Some of them continue to torment us with dance sequences. It is true that few bollywood actors know how to dance (exceptions: Govinda, Prabhu Deva from South). Rest of them are pathetic. This trend of what i call as a ``PT drill`` was started by Jeetendra and is being faithfully followed by many others. A number of extras with the hero seem to be doing a PT drill. Why can`t they draw inspiration from Indian classical dance? Why do they have to copy Hollywood? I still regard the dances by Vijayanthi Mala in a movie Amrapali the best ever dance sequences in any movie. All those were based on Indian classical dances. There is something basically wrong with the mindset of bollywood movie makers who are copying the west left and right. Look at the clothes the characters in these movies wear. Am i to believe that India today has become so westernised that most females are going around in skimpy clothes?
I saw a movie some times ago. I am forgetting the name but the story was derived from Mahabharata. It was story of 2 brothers Arvasu and Parvasu and sages Raibhya and his blind brother. The real story was changed but the plot was very good. Why can`t bollywood make similar movies? Each little side story from Indian epics could be made into a movie.

There is literally no storyline in most movies. Bollywood has not experimented with serious themes (with some exceptions of course). Even when a movie was taken on that great character from Indian history viz Ashoka, it was with a love angle. Santhosh Sivam`s cinematography was breathtaking but his talent was wasted in that movie. Until a time when Bollywood can make serious movies like Benhur or Ten Commandments, it will not be taken seriously. South Indian director Mani Ratnam has been making better movies. One of his recent movies that i saw some months ago was ``Kannathil muththamittal`` (or Peck in the cheek), which was about a Srilankan girl who becomes a victim of Tamil militancy and is adopted by Indian parents. Nandita Das gave a sterling performance as a Tamil militant. That is the kind of movie i am talking about. Something that makes you sit up and take note. I will have to check out the one Anuradha is talking about (the one with Hritik Roshan). Most of the movies listed by Manto will not qualify as Bollywood movies. Most of those movies were by directors who are outside of Bollywood.
But despite all this, despite the fact that Bollywood songs are not of the same calibre as the Oldies, some movies are no doubt good. I saw a recent one by name Jhankar Beats, which i thought was hilarious with good music . Fun to watch.
Sridhar

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Good for you, Manto :)
do watch Koi Mil Gaya too... Hrithik is amazing in it... anyone who says he`s talentless doesn`t know what in hell he`s talking about... did you see him in Fiza? add that to my
little list... also Satya... if anyone could see Satya and not be moved, I wouldn`t know
what to call him...
and Kaun? that was some horror flick
and Duplicate... no brain feast that, but I really enjoyed it... then there was Maachis, Sarfarosh, Kachhe Dhaage, and last year Ajay Devgan`s `Legend of Bhagat Singh` ... beautifully made film... wonderful music..
then there were those small budget but completely delightful children`s movies like
Makdi and Chota Jadugar...
and probably so many more I can`t remember... not bad for the last few years, huh?

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I do not know of any other film industry which is so far removed from real life as Bollywood. But I also do not know of any which affects its people as much as Bollywood. Here, life truly imitates art, whether it is the latest fashions in clothes, hairstyles, jewellery, or young people`s manners and mannerisms. Go to any Indian function or even wedding function and they will be performing songs and dances from the Indian films; kids in colleges romance each other on the pattern of films; even in temples they sing bhajans from films often written and sung by non-hindus.
Yes, Bollyood is like no other `wood!

Urstruly#1
You are out of date. These days, films have even boy-meet-boy and girl-meet-girl scripts.
Of the three recent films I saw, Mr and Mrs Iyer (V. good) is about a married woman who pretends to be the wife of her fellow bus passenger to save his life in a communal riot; Bhoot (okayish) is about a ghost that torments a housewife and Ajnabi (bad) is about two vacationing couples doing the Indian version of wife swapping.

Asif naqshbandi:
I think you are a bit partial to your namesake who made Mughal-e-Azam. In my book, it is not even one of the greatest films, let alone the greatest. I would give ten Mughal-e-Azams to get one Umrao Jaan, Bandini, Jaagte Raho, Sahib Bibi Ghulam and many such films. In music, Mughal-e-Azam was not even as good as its predecessor, Anarkali with songs like Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag and Yeh zindagi usi ki hai.
But in sheer hype and marketing, there has been no film before or since Mughal-e-Azam. Asif even shot the film with two different endings; after the film had a successful run with the first version, the second version was released to give the film a second wind.

Anuradha,

I have seen all of them except Mr. and Mrs Iyer... I really want to watch it.
Here are some of my favorites (I don`t if they fit the Bollywood label though but they are Indian movies)

1) Hollywood Bollywood, or is it Bollywood Hollywood...

2) Perfect Murder

3) Monsoon Wedding

4) Bend it like Beckham

5) Earth 1947

6) East is East

7) Fire

8) Kama Sutra

...Writing isn`t a game with me. Neither is it ``a job`` as it is with many of my friends in ``the trade`` who work from 10 to 4 with an hour off for Beaujolais and biscuits. It is my life. Now snicker all you wish, that happens to be the plain and simple of it. And it not only offends me, it disgusts, short tempers, and enrages me to see people playing at being writers....

...When I was younger...I wrote from the gut. This led to all manner of clever riposts from my contemporaries who compared my effusions with the more advanced stages of gorge-buoancy. Since then I`ve tempered my semantics and relocated the source of my work. It comes from the heart and the soul and the head and the index fingers of my right and left hands which are the only ones (poor slobs) that ever learned to type....

There is no use writing anything that has been written before unless you can beat it. What a writer in our times has to do is write what hasn`t been written before or beat dead men at what they have done.

...All you have to do is write true. And anybody that writes for the fat man with the cigar, behind the big editorial desk, is a cheat and a liar and not worth the type fonts to set him up....

...To hell with the swimming pools and balling the starlets and impressing everybody.... Because, you see, I`m nothing. I`m nothing at all without writing. Without truth, my truth, The only truth I know, it`s all a gambol in the pasture without rhythm or sense. It`s empty. God gave it to me (so help me, Deist or no, I believe that!) and I can`t cheat myself or you or them or anyone by not doing it the best way I know how.
That`s the heart and head of the writer, to set it all down before they put him down the hole. To get it all out the right way, the best way, the truest way you know how.
Do you feel it?
Do you know what I mean?

Harlan Ellison: Truth and the Writer, 1961

Indian cinema has had its vicissitudes which were perhaps greatly influenced by the competition from Hollywood. In the 80s and 90s, movie themes were trite and there were a lot of films that seemed to be ditto copies of hollywood blockbusters. However, in my opinion, indian cinema has now outgrown that phase. Recent films like Ankhein, Darna Manaa Hai and 88 Antop Hill show that Indian cinema possesses the diversity and originality required to keep interest in Bollywood alive.

We should perhaps see Indian films without the spectre of hollywood lurking around. There is so much to appreciate.... the wonderful music that goes with all sorts of situations, be it romance, tragedy or comedy; the rich poetry and language that adds to the profundity of the plot and the characters; the brilliant dance choreographies, the colorful dresses and so much more. Recently, bollywood is also catching up in the technology department, I have seen some movies with CGI and excellent camera work. Watching a good bollywood movie unfold on the screen is really an unforgetable experience. Now, if only I could say the same thing about Lollywood :)

Bollywood is supposed to be making a film in Pakistan, that would be interesting to see, how they portray Pakistan and its people...

seems to me chowk has a lot of old fogies hankering after the golden era of hindi cinema...
stop moaning about the past you guys!! all new films aren`t bad... hasn`t one of you
seen Lagaan or Dil Chahta Hai? or Monsoon Wedding, Mr and Mrs Iyer, Hum dil de chuke
and so on?
speaking of which, don`t miss Koi Mil Gaya... it might have been inspired by ET but still
it`s a pretty good entertainer...

and Naqshbandi..# 3

go watch Hrithik`s performance in this and come back with egg on your face...

and urstruly # 1...

wow, wasn`t that clever of you! have you remembered or are you still itching? sure it wasn`t some lollywood film you were thinking about?? oh wait, those never have the `boy falls in love with girl` theme, right??

Dear Urstruly # 1,

Hope this finds you and family and neighbours with shukar of Almighty in tip-top shape. We received your letter about not recalling movie with plot about one boy falling in love with one girl. That movie was made when Great Great Grand Ammi jaan (who used to seak like a parrot, remember) was born.

Nowadays, urstruly ji, Bollywood movies are usuallyabout bright young NRI girls with doctorates in interstellar medicine and rap falling in love with TWO boys, one each from India (urban) and India (pind).

Please correct your correcting glasses.

sincerely,

`` aapkaa``

urstruly

God! now I will be itching all night until I recall its name.

even though you have been consisitently unkind to poets...we cannot see you spend the night itching!...

the movie you were looking for is Three Walls or teen deewaraiN by nagesh kukonoor...fits your bill...and does not have a single song either!

rgds,

t

the bollywood industry used to make some really good films. note the past tense. now only independent indian film makers like kaizad gustad or whatever his name is or NRIs like Mira Nair make good films; about once in a decade the old studios/big name directors tend to make a good film which is then endlessly copied...
even the industrywalas are saying the industry is almost bankrupt, a tiny %age of movies make a profit, there is a dearth of ideas, most plots are straight rip-offs of hollywood films and to top it all of it is financed largely by the bombay underworld and the likes of dawood ibrahim and company (the best indian ever from bombay--although now he has a pakistani passport and citizenship so i guess he is pakistani now...oh well); anyway the underworld connection is the most interesting thing about bollywood right now. what with sanjay dutt and those tape recordings, rakesh roshan being shot and just living (they should have shot his talentless son instead and done us all a favour), nadeem shravan, shah rukh khan etc. getting death threats, monica bedi emerging on the arms of another Muslim gangster in UAE or somewhere...gosh they should make a film about THIS..maybe people will start watching it again...
the only saving grace of bollywood at present is amitabh bachchan..and the bevy of supermodels they keep on churning out hoping one of them will be able to act...
i suppose that`s good too cos it keeps the pakistani cricketers occupied. last i heard a certain former miss world had the hots for the rawalpindi express...(with his current form she`s probably the last maiden he`s bowled in a while...)
**
vaisay despite all this it is sort of addictive like cigarettes (not that i smoke)...this is what growing up in a household where indian films were always on does to one...
..anyway not name dropping or anything but one of my good indian friends is a close relative of sanjay dutt--so i get all the real gossip which goes on in bollywood..hehe..
:-)

i think i will watch mughal e azam again; it reminds me of when india was ruled by us..:-)
yalgaar ho!

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I really really liked that Indian movie where a boy falls in love with a girl. I just can`t remeber its name. God! now I will be itching all night until I recall its name. Can someone help. Oh great cinema bollywood by the way.