Q Isa Daudpota August 15, 2003
#32 Posted by arjun_m on August 18, 2003 10:53:33 am
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#31 Posted by adnan_rafiq on August 18, 2003 10:33:07 am
re: #29
Aliya: Kyaa yaad dilaadiyaa?
I still remember the dark days of Naseer-ullah Babur. In those days the only crime you had to commit was RMWM (riding motorbikes while being mohajir). The ``Babar Goons``, aka Rangers, had made a habit of stopping any Suzuki Swift on the road, and upon finding that its owners were mohajirs, they would promptly confiscate the car. This happend to my father-in-law, my uncle and several of my cousins. And, god forbid, if you were a student who happened to be riding a motorbike, you could kiss your ass goodbye.
I still remember the day I was visiting my aunt in North Nazimabad Block J. My uncle made us hide in the basement because the army truck was stopping door to door picking up young boys between 15 - 25 indiscriminately. Both of his sons were brilliant students with no ties to MQM or whatsoever. Their only crime was being mohajir.
I still remeber the hot summer days in Karachi. There was not a drop coming out of the taps. Yet, one could see the yellow NLC trucks racing past our houses to fill up the tanks of some major or general like Naseer ullah Babar. You see, their wives remembered the lush green lawns of Islamabad and wanted to create the same tranquility in Karachi.
I still remember the day when my cousin came back from the hospital. The police had given him a brutal `Naseer ullah Babar` reminder on his back. His crime? Drinking Coca-Cola outside a shop while being mohajir. This guy was an A-level student. A mama`s boy. As soon as he got better, he joined MQM, much to the chagrin of his parents. But, I guess the hurt and humiliation was burning him inside out.
There is no denying that the ranks of MQM were filled by goons, chief among them was their leader Altaf Hussein. The reign of terror, the violence, bloody skirmishes fought on the streets of Karachi by APMSO, provided ample justification for army intervention in my view. However, the net casted by Naseer ullah Babar was much too wide. It reeked of extreme prejudice not different from what Hitler felt about the Jews. Too bad, those who praise this racist, have never had their uncles or cousins beaten to `a pulp` by him.
Aliya: Kyaa yaad dilaadiyaa?
I still remember the dark days of Naseer-ullah Babur. In those days the only crime you had to commit was RMWM (riding motorbikes while being mohajir). The ``Babar Goons``, aka Rangers, had made a habit of stopping any Suzuki Swift on the road, and upon finding that its owners were mohajirs, they would promptly confiscate the car. This happend to my father-in-law, my uncle and several of my cousins. And, god forbid, if you were a student who happened to be riding a motorbike, you could kiss your ass goodbye.
I still remember the day I was visiting my aunt in North Nazimabad Block J. My uncle made us hide in the basement because the army truck was stopping door to door picking up young boys between 15 - 25 indiscriminately. Both of his sons were brilliant students with no ties to MQM or whatsoever. Their only crime was being mohajir.
I still remeber the hot summer days in Karachi. There was not a drop coming out of the taps. Yet, one could see the yellow NLC trucks racing past our houses to fill up the tanks of some major or general like Naseer ullah Babar. You see, their wives remembered the lush green lawns of Islamabad and wanted to create the same tranquility in Karachi.
I still remember the day when my cousin came back from the hospital. The police had given him a brutal `Naseer ullah Babar` reminder on his back. His crime? Drinking Coca-Cola outside a shop while being mohajir. This guy was an A-level student. A mama`s boy. As soon as he got better, he joined MQM, much to the chagrin of his parents. But, I guess the hurt and humiliation was burning him inside out.
There is no denying that the ranks of MQM were filled by goons, chief among them was their leader Altaf Hussein. The reign of terror, the violence, bloody skirmishes fought on the streets of Karachi by APMSO, provided ample justification for army intervention in my view. However, the net casted by Naseer ullah Babar was much too wide. It reeked of extreme prejudice not different from what Hitler felt about the Jews. Too bad, those who praise this racist, have never had their uncles or cousins beaten to `a pulp` by him.
#30 Posted by arjun_m on August 18, 2003 8:28:18 am
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#29 Posted by dialogue on August 18, 2003 6:55:37 am
Non verbal cues (such as dress etc) are more important and are more clearly heard compared with what is said. What he wears is only a reflection of the prevalent lack of ingenuity. You can expect anything from the producers and directors of the ‘referendum’, which the General won with overwhelming majority.
At the same time, if you consider the source of General’s power, it would probably become easier to understand why he wore a military uniform. When the military wins, the General wins – you know- win win situation.
Pakistan is hostage to this mindset. As Isa#26 himself says, “In the end it is irrelevant what garb the general appears in, but it is important to realize that our salvation lies in being totally honest with ourselves and others. Such an awakening will help solve our many problems - both within and with the rest of the world”
At the same time, if you consider the source of General’s power, it would probably become easier to understand why he wore a military uniform. When the military wins, the General wins – you know- win win situation.
Pakistan is hostage to this mindset. As Isa#26 himself says, “In the end it is irrelevant what garb the general appears in, but it is important to realize that our salvation lies in being totally honest with ourselves and others. Such an awakening will help solve our many problems - both within and with the rest of the world”
#28 Posted by Aliyasaeed on August 18, 2003 6:55:37 am
Re;tahmed:
This is nothing to do with the article, however, since tahmed was admiring babur`s treatment of mqm, As someone who usually denounces MQM, I can`t help but point out some historical facts.
1.babur`s reign was known as reign of terror for mohajirs as he pulled young men of a mohajir ethnicity from their home quite indiscriminately and tortured/ killed them in a way that was no different than the Taliban tactics. He bred hatred in a disenfranchised people rather than manipulate them in a clever fashion, something that was done after him.
2.MQM was not squashed by babur, it remains active in politics as late as the last election, it`s representatives got elected to various political seats/ positions.
3. As clear from innumerable examples in contemporary world, ``squashing`` any popular movement with force generally strenghthens it`s violent components.What truly weakend mqm was it`s split into 2 factions, now whoever did that should take credit for the change.
This is nothing to do with the article, however, since tahmed was admiring babur`s treatment of mqm, As someone who usually denounces MQM, I can`t help but point out some historical facts.
1.babur`s reign was known as reign of terror for mohajirs as he pulled young men of a mohajir ethnicity from their home quite indiscriminately and tortured/ killed them in a way that was no different than the Taliban tactics. He bred hatred in a disenfranchised people rather than manipulate them in a clever fashion, something that was done after him.
2.MQM was not squashed by babur, it remains active in politics as late as the last election, it`s representatives got elected to various political seats/ positions.
3. As clear from innumerable examples in contemporary world, ``squashing`` any popular movement with force generally strenghthens it`s violent components.What truly weakend mqm was it`s split into 2 factions, now whoever did that should take credit for the change.
#27 Posted by faisaluno on August 17, 2003 9:02:41 pm
tahmed sahib:
that is quite an interesting little story. thank you for sharing it. with regards to your comments on taliban, i think picture is a bit more complicated than the one you are painting. afghanistan, by the time taliban took over, had turned into a country out of a mad max movie. first, russians for no rhyme or reason and with active connivance of americans killed a million afghans. and after them, the brave mujahideen, remnants of which are in currently in power killed fifty thousand of their own besides pretty much destroying all the infrastructure needed to lead a civilized existence. also important to remember that inter-mujahideen conflict was an out-and-out power struggle rather than an ethnic conflict. in this environment therefore, it was not surprising to see the rise of taliban rather than some sort of jeffersonian democrats. and to expect pak to stay out of afghanistan is akin to expecting americans to stay out cuba or israel. even then, i believe taliban could have been controlled (meaning their religious zealotry could have been reduced) had it not been for the noxious influence of afghan-arabs. and i dont think we are out of the woods by any means. the threat to our western flank should a civil war arise in afghanistan is huge. but as usual, our leaders remain asleep at the wheel.
and you paki haters out there, before you start cursing my family and insulting my god for pointing out what is essentially the truth, read what cia has to say about recent history of afghanistan:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/af.html
Afghanistan`s recent history is characterized by war and civil unrest. The Soviet Union invaded in 1979, but was forced to withdraw 10 years later by anti-Communist mujahidin forces supplied and trained by the US, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and others. Fighting subsequently continued among the various mujahidin factions, giving rise to a state of warlordism that eventually spawned the Taliban.
#26 Posted by daudpota on August 17, 2003 12:19:23 pm
A little elaboration on what I intended to convey may help...
The general`s attempt to send messages through his dress fools no one. I wish one of his minions would tell him that. It in fact shows personal (perhaps national?) insecurity about how he/we behave with ``others``.
In the end it is irrelevant what garb the general appears in, but it is important to realise that our salvation lies in being totally honest with ourselves and others. Such an awakening will help solve our many problems - both within and with the rest of the world.
Isa Daudpota
Monday 18 Aug 2003. 0010 hours
The general`s attempt to send messages through his dress fools no one. I wish one of his minions would tell him that. It in fact shows personal (perhaps national?) insecurity about how he/we behave with ``others``.
In the end it is irrelevant what garb the general appears in, but it is important to realise that our salvation lies in being totally honest with ourselves and others. Such an awakening will help solve our many problems - both within and with the rest of the world.
Isa Daudpota
Monday 18 Aug 2003. 0010 hours
#25 Posted by tahmed32 on August 17, 2003 11:44:07 am
faisaluno #23 babar is indeed an interesting fellow. In 1965, his pilot mistook some Indian soldiers for Pakistanis, and landed his helicopter in the middle of them. Babar stepped out, realized the problem, and...took charge. He scolded the soldiers for not obeying their superior`s orders and surrendering to the Pakistani forces (then on a roll in Chhamb-Jaurian), and singlehandedly walked them (all 50 of the Indian soldiers) back as POWs over to the Pakistani lines. Given his presence of mind and personal courage, I was not surprised when he took on the goons of MQM a few decades later, and had the scum whining ``foul`` in no time. As minister, he lived simply in his own house in Islamabad as I recall being told.
Now why would such a guy support the Taliban badmaash?? I guess no one is perfect.
Now why would such a guy support the Taliban badmaash?? I guess no one is perfect.
#24 Posted by tahmed32 on August 17, 2003 7:36:03 am
stuka #17 So I missed the one about ``Mushy the fierce Baluch tribesman``. My loss I guess. ;-)
#23 Posted by cipram on August 17, 2003 7:36:02 am
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#22 Posted by faisaluno on August 17, 2003 7:36:02 am
stuka:
kamran shafi is a poor man`s naseerullah baber. (bb`s int. minister in her second stint).he is all talk and no action. naseerullah baber on the other hand, single handedly took on mqm --one of the most destructive forces in paki politics-- and beat it to an inch of its pulp. and not only that, but he did this in some style. with my own eyes, i saw him driving around in a white `86 corolla and in a white shalwar kameez, on the streets of karachi during the the height of mqm insurgency with only his driver as his guard. and btw, until it became politically incorrect to do so, gen. baber openly claimed credit for creation of taliban. and if you believe the friday times (which i do), taliban rewarded gen baber by giving him a couple of two thousand five hundred year old statues of buddha that were a part of kabul`s museum.
btw this also my criticism of gen musharrif. that he also a lot of talk and very little action. and if he is really a patriot as he so often claims, he should then show some balls and hire gen baber and give him a free rein to take on criminals masquerading as politicians. and top of this list would some of our religious leaders. and i also wonder why g.w. does not give mush this advice. perhaps you being the resident republican can shed some light on this.
#21 Posted by arjun_m on August 16, 2003 11:07:32 pm
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#20 Posted by MantoLives on August 16, 2003 10:48:58 pm
Naqshbandi...
The question is not `why not`... but the question is why should it be a Law? I love Shalwar Qameez but does that mean we should make it a law that everyone has to wear shalwar. Why should everything become a law...
This is what people like you don`t understand ...
-Manto
The question is not `why not`... but the question is why should it be a Law? I love Shalwar Qameez but does that mean we should make it a law that everyone has to wear shalwar. Why should everything become a law...
This is what people like you don`t understand ...
-Manto
#19 Posted by nasah on August 16, 2003 10:06:41 pm
``In photos flashed across the world you have the simply dressed Indians peaceniks in their saris and kurta-pajamas and in their midst Pakistan’s president in his army khakis.``(Daudpota)
I cannot believe how stupid this army man is -- strutting like a peacock in a military uniform among the civilian doves of peace!!!!
but then again-- what can you say about an imbecile mind that could concieve something so stupid like Kargil -- or a Dimwit General who ran over his very own country just to save his 10 cent job -- the man must be forgiven for being a third rate uniformly uniformed MORONIC EGOMANIAC.
``Was this intentional or mere carelessness?``
neither -- as they say in Persian: naishe aqrub nu uz paye keeN ust -- muqtazaey tabeetush eeN ust
the man is built a fool
I cannot believe how stupid this army man is -- strutting like a peacock in a military uniform among the civilian doves of peace!!!!
but then again-- what can you say about an imbecile mind that could concieve something so stupid like Kargil -- or a Dimwit General who ran over his very own country just to save his 10 cent job -- the man must be forgiven for being a third rate uniformly uniformed MORONIC EGOMANIAC.
``Was this intentional or mere carelessness?``
neither -- as they say in Persian: naishe aqrub nu uz paye keeN ust -- muqtazaey tabeetush eeN ust
the man is built a fool
#18 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 16, 2003 5:09:30 pm
manto ji -- please do not put words into my mouth;
shalwar kameez is universally recognised as Pakistani national costume
so why shouldnt our leaders wear it?
(as for beards/amamah--there is nothing wrong with that either--infact it is noble and a Sunnah--and our identity IS as Muslims primarily BUT i didn`t say make these 2 compulsory BUT I do think shalwar kameez should be.)
Well if we ARE going to emulate anyone in dress who better than the Blessed Prophet, the Best of Creation himself (upon him be peace); that is inifinitely preferable to aping US fashions (for example).
shalwar kameez is universally recognised as Pakistani national costume
so why shouldnt our leaders wear it?
(as for beards/amamah--there is nothing wrong with that either--infact it is noble and a Sunnah--and our identity IS as Muslims primarily BUT i didn`t say make these 2 compulsory BUT I do think shalwar kameez should be.)
Well if we ARE going to emulate anyone in dress who better than the Blessed Prophet, the Best of Creation himself (upon him be peace); that is inifinitely preferable to aping US fashions (for example).
#17 Posted by stuka on August 16, 2003 4:28:44 pm
``Our Mushy by contrast, has only two outfits: Mushy the Commando, and Mushy the Western Gentleman. ``
TAhmed
Guess you did not follow the referendum as closely as I did. I saw Mushi the Baluch, Mushy the Pathan etc. :)
Faisaluno: I didn`t get the gist if your post to Arjun. What about Kamran Shafi? I think hr is a good writer though there was an unseemly argument between him and this author who lives in DC (forgetting his name) over Mushahid Hussain.
TAhmed
Guess you did not follow the referendum as closely as I did. I saw Mushi the Baluch, Mushy the Pathan etc. :)
Faisaluno: I didn`t get the gist if your post to Arjun. What about Kamran Shafi? I think hr is a good writer though there was an unseemly argument between him and this author who lives in DC (forgetting his name) over Mushahid Hussain.
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