Musharraf : Self Styled Saviour Stuck in a Rut

Babu:

The only problem I have in exchanges with you is that you get de-focused easily. My Iran thing was in response to your claim that Pakistan is not having good relations with Iran. I wrote about close cooperation. Where did I say that Iran is having close ties only with Pakistan or that it is not having any ties with India. Given the tight position that Iran is in today, it will like to have good relations with all those countries who may be able to drag it out of trouble in case the USA sets its agenda on it. Therefore, Iran is getting into all sorts of strategic relations with the regional powers and neighbors. However, I believe that if USA decides to make Iran its next target, India, Pakistan and Russia may not be able to do any thing for it, except that Pakistan may deny its territorial access.

About teachers, the #s we are talking about is 200-500. Most probably, the foreign teachers will be funded by international agencies. Some of them, like currently in our educational system, will be paid by higher tuitions.

PM & Faisal:

Nice article. This is what I have said earlier. The brain-washed Indians may Mala Jappofy of Taliban the terrorist, but unfortunately the problem is Talibans were always popular there and are again gaining popularity in Afghanistan. Americans have to provide their due share to Pakhtoons in Afghanistan sooner than they think or the chaos will increase. Coalition forces should not depend on NA only for Afghanistan`s stability.

RE # 98 AlphaNull ``And I don’t watch or pay much attention to the BBC``
Well you know a few years back BBC World News had this segment about Indian Army tanks moving into Srinagar - complete with video coverage. Unfortunately for them the Army men recognised the tanks and troops being shown in the coverage - from Bosnia!!
I don`t really remember if the Beeb apologised.

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Ahmedzai #89

{{India has every right to respond to Pakistan`s strategy as it deems fit. However, it could have responded positively subsequent to Pakistan`s extending its arm to jointly control ``infiltration`` subsequent to 9/11. It chose not to do so.}}

Your expectations of a ‘positive response’ to Pakistan’s ‘offer’ of a ‘joint control of infilitration’ are rooted in notions of India-Pakistan equal-equal. Indians aren’t about to do anything to reinforce the Pakistani establishment’s delusions of ‘parity’, or help them save face, or grant their Kashmir campaign any mileage. Marginalization, making Pakistan’s moves irrelevant, is what you should expect.

{{So if India has a right to wage a covert economic and diplomatic war against Pakistan then we have every right to distance ourselves from any economic relationship that India may be looking at, including e.g. MFN status.}}

You have gotten hold of the wrong end of the proverbial stick. Eventual MFN status may be WTO-mandated. Beyond that, India at large doesn’t stand to gain a great deal from free trade with much smaller and economically much less developed Pakistan. There are a dozen countries at least, starting with the US, that are far more important trading partners.

It’s not Indians who rely on Pakistani pharmaceuticals to keep the costs of medication down. It’s not Indians who travel to the ‘enemy country’, jeopardizing the national honour and dignity, for heart surgery which their own country cannot provide. It’s not Indians who are avid consumers of the other country’s popular culture, generally via pirated media. So it is amusing to see you not want to have economic relations with India when Pakistan already has parasitical and mostly illicit economic relations with India.

Ahmedzai #89

{{Regarding Kashmir, you perhaps missed watching two programs on Kashmir on BBC. One broadcast from New Delhi, the other from Srinagar. While the audience in New Delhi was supportive of your arguments, the picture was totally different in Srinagar. The crowed was over-whelmingly against India and was over-whelmingly pro-independence.}}

I care very little for the opinions of spoiled rich urbanites in Srinagar, nurturing Islamist delusions while Indian forces protect their life and limb. Kashmiris in remote villages, who were most liable to having to host ‘guests’ from Pakistan, might have a different opinion. They certainly queued up to vote in the last elections in far larger numbers than the urbanites, sometimes braving Pakistani fire to do so.

And I don’t watch or pay much attention to the BBC. I do know that the head of its Asia and Pacific section is a certain Abbas Nasir, of Pakistani origin, former head of the BBC’s Urdu section, then acting head of its ‘South Asia` section. He is a man with Pakistan army connections and apparently a proponent of Musharraf’s dictatorship. Not calculated to provide unbiased coverage of the Indian subcontinent, let alone Kashmir!

More generally, Indians have become quite wise to frantic attempts by Pakistan’s ruling class to control perceptions of reality. Attempts to pass off Pakistani agitprop as the objective truth aren’t going to get very far today.

The sooner you realize this, the better.

{{As regards your continuously harping on Pakistan sponsored terrorism, every single day, Indian army is killing innocent Kashmiris in its held Kashmir in ``encounters ``and is shelling across into Pakistan controlled Kashmir and killing innocents there too.}}

Ahmedzai, did you hear of the recent extermination of Ghazi Baba by the BSF? He was a Kashmiri freedom fighter from Bahawlpur, Pakistan. It’s very odd that so many of these innocent Kashmiris killed by the Indian forces turn out to be from Lahore, Multan, Bahawlpur, Sargodha, Karachi, and so on. I hate to think that Ghazi Baba might have betrayed by his Kashmiri neighbours in Srinagar where he was living. Maybe they got tired of him.

{{I am not going to lose sleep on the misery of your homeland if you are happy with it.}}

One can awaken Sleeping Beauty but not beauties pretending to be asleep. Slumber on in your delusions.

ahmadzai #90

`` It has always been my contention that Indians on this website are struggling to get their IQ levels into positive digits (there are other copy and paste types who do not have any brains). Many Indians have lived upto that claim of mine. You came close to providing another example. But having exchanged some good messages in the past I give you proverbial benefit of the doubt. ``

I am glad I get the benefit of doubt.

`` 1. It was ASEAN countries who extended membership to Pakistan a month or so ago, but then put on hold under protest from India. ``

The last time I checked India is not a member of the ASEAN. India cannot directly block Pakistan`s membership if it is not a ASEAN member. Why would Pakistan become a ASEAN member before India ? India has geographical proximity, culutral relations, size and economic ties all in its favor. Explain logically as to why Pakistan needs to be an ASEAN member. South East Asia is not South Asia.

`` 2. Iran`s ministers are now frequently visiting Pakistan and vice versa. Kharrazi was recently in Pakistan. As an example only, flights from Peshawar to Tehran are beginning for the first time. ``

The same Iranians signed a strategic agreement on defence co-operation with India in January. Iranians are working to back the Northern Alliance factions in Afghanistan and to help India get access to Central Asia. They do not seem exactly Pakistani foreign policy objectives. Iran`s common message to India and Pakistan is to patch up. Their message to Pakistan in particular is stop financing the Taliban, Sunni extremist groups etc.

`` 3. Many westerners are already working in Pakistan, although they may be taking it as a pinch of salt (i.e. they may be getting a hard area allowance). Indian teachers from South are working in``extremist anti-Hindu`` country like Saudi Arabia. Its the salaries that matter.``

Indian teachers probably teach Indian expatriates in the Gulf. I see nothing in Saudi curriculum that Indian teachers would be capable of teaching. Maybe English !!! You missed the tiny part about salaries. Why would Pakistan pay $20000 to get a run of the mill Indian teacher ? If you want an American try boosting the sum to 40k - 100k dollars. It seems like a utter waste of money to do it on a large scale.

re: nasah

Ask Anwar Mahmood, why the Indian channels are banned.

Ciao

ahmadzai sahib:

thank you for the information especially the last part. also there was an interesting article in wall street journal couple of weeks ago in which the author was making the claim that mma`s rise to power was with america`s approval. i personally am beginning to come around to this view. and i think good news for pakistan if americas show more flexibility an bring more pushtoons into the fold.

Faisal, AhmedZai sahib:
In connection with the Taliban`s possible role in Afghanistan`s political future, the foloowing might be of interest. (Ignore the misleading title) : http://truthout.org/docs_03/090103I.shtml

re:#89 by ahmadzai
Stop shedding crocodile tears for the Kashmiris and worry about your own backyard. Sindhi, Baluchi nationalism is waiting to tear the fabric of this artificial nationstate called ``Pakistan``.
When people of J and K talk of Independence (as some people in that T.V program did), they too realize that they are talking of `` substantial autonomy``. Kashmir will never be Independent as long as India is secular. YOu can imagine what will happen to muslims of India outside Kashmir once India gives up its official position on Kashmir.
Sridhar

re. bbabu #83:
Good reply. You said all that I was thinking of saying, and more, and in a better way.
I`d only like to add that India, post-Kargill and the highjacking incident of `98 (?) has damn good reason to distrust, intensely, any Pakistan regime headed by a khakhi man, esp. Mushy himself. We would have done the same, and probably more.
In any case, the question of employing Indan teachers is irrelevant. As you ask, which Indian in their right mind would want to live in Pakistan?!?

rsaxena:
I`d go away for a few months, but you probably won`t have grown up by then anyway, so what`s the point?
I think I`ll just hang around, minding my own business as usual, and wait for you to come up with your witless attempts at concealed hostility again.
Till then, adios... and chill already!

Faisal:

``what is your take on situation in afghanistan. today’s news is reporting that americans have started talking to some elements of taliban.....``

There are two issues here:

1. Although Pakistan and especially NWFP cannot afford Talibanization, the way of solving the problem as adopted by the Coalition forces in Afghanistan is wrong. By over-projecting non-Pushtoons in Afghanistan and marginalizing Pushtoons there, you can`t expect things to settle down.

2. Every country has got a long-term strategy. If the strategy is changed over a period of time, the nation does not react to it rebelliously. However, if a U-turn is made overnight then there would be some reactionary forces (call them forces dedicated to previous strategy if you like) who will attempt to challenge the process. In Pakistan this has happened many times before. For example, military officers have been arrested as part of their running an individual ``hidden agenda`` immediately after 1965 i.e. Tashkent Accord, in 1971 against ZAB i.e. the Attock case, in 1976 against Zia, and in 1990s during Benazir`s Government. The recent investigation of some of our military officers is also in line with the same process. A u-turn was made on our Afghan policy and some radical elements in the military were eliminated. Now that the coalition would be talking to a faction of Talibans instead confronting them militarily, some military officers interested in their own agenda would surely be questioned. There is no harm in it. Its military`s internal matter. But that some investigations are being carried out in itself is an evidence that some factions of Talibans may be thinking of coming around. Indeed, news is hot in the NWFP that Maulana Fazal has been requested by the powers that be to start negotiating with Taliban forces to bring them into some kind of accord with Coalition forces.

Alephnull at # 84:

You wrote as if I am complaining about India`s undeclared war. I am not. India has every right to respond to Pakistan`s strategy as it deems fit. However, it could have responded positively subsequent to Pakistan`s extending its arm to jointly control ``infiltration`` subsequent to 9/11. It chose not to do so. So if India has a right to wage a covert economic and diplomatic war against Pakistan then we have every right to distance ourselves from any economic relationship that India may be looking at, including e.g. MFN status.

Regarding Kashmir, you perhaps missed watching two programs on Kashmir on BBC. One broadcast from New Delhi, the other from Srinagar. While the audience in New Delhi was supportive of your arguments, the picture was totally different in Srinagar. The crowed was over-whelmingly against India and was over-whelmingly pro-independence. The difference of public opinion at two different locations on those two BBC programs is the precise reality on how far Kashmiris stand from New Delhi.

The sooner you realize this, the better.

As regards your continuously harping on Pakistan sponsored terrorism, every single day, Indian army is killing innocent Kashmiris in its held Kashmir in ``encounters ``and is shelling across into Pakistan controlled Kashmir and killing innocents there too. For example, 5 women were killed in Pakistan administered Kashmir due to heavy Indian shelling two days ago.

You are having bomb blasts in Indian heartland specifically when another elections are approaching. You are also facing separatists` incited violence in northeastern parts. Trying to solve a problem by addressing the problem incorrectly will bring more instability to India.

If you are happy with the way extremism is shaping up in your country, its good for you. I am not going to lose sleep on the misery of your homeland if you are happy with it.