Musharraf : Self Styled Saviour Stuck in a Rut

babu at # 82:

It has always been my contention that Indians on this website are struggling to get their IQ levels into positive digits (there are other copy and paste types who do not have any brains). Many Indians have lived upto that claim of mine. You came close to providing another example. But having exchanged some good messages in the past I give you proverbial benefit of the doubt.

Just to let you judge your own slips while posting the message at # 82:

1. It was ASEAN countries who extended membership to Pakistan a month or so ago, but then put on hold under protest from India.

2. Iran`s ministers are now frequently visiting Pakistan and vice versa. Kharrazi was recently in Pakistan. As an example only, flights from Peshawar to Tehran are beginning for the first time.

3. Many westerners are already working in Pakistan, although they may be taking it as a pinch of salt (i.e. they may be getting a hard area allowance). Indian teachers from South are working in``extremist anti-Hindu`` country like Saudi Arabia. Its the salaries that matter.

A QUESTION for MiaN Musharraf:

``It is instructive that while every Indian cable operator provides PTV, Indian news channels are banned in Pakistan. We are not threatened by their society; but clearly, they are threatened by ours.``(Vir Sanghvi)

Q. Is that true Marshall Musarraf? -- are u afraid of Indian News media -- sir?

A. what to talk about Indian New media -- I, the the Fearless Kommando of Kargil -- am afraid of my OWN Pakistani newsmedia - as well.

``arrest of six Sindhi journalists during the visit last week of General Musharraf to rural Sindh on charges of anti-state activities while all they were doing was to cover a women’s demonstration against the Kalabagh Dam and Thal canal in Jamshoro, timed with Musharraf’s visit.

Police first broke up the women’s demonstration and three protestors were injured. Then police cracked down on the journalists present there to cover the demonstrations.``

#75 Ahmedzai

{{ 1. India is waging an undeclared, but a very obvious military, economic and diplomatic war on Pakistan. For example, it hindered USA`s selling F16s to us, objected to our included in ASEAN, is a constant pain ion the rear end in commonwealth, etc.}}

Getting into a zero-sum gain with India was a conscious choice that Pakistan’s establishment made a while back. Why whine now when India tries to minimize your share of the sum?

{{3. In the event of any calamity inside India, the extremists in its Government are quick to point their fingers at Pakistan. Rest assured that a Pakistani link will be found in the Mumbai blasts.}}

You can hardly blame us when the perpetrators of the ’93 blasts, Dawood and company hide out in Pakistan. A Dubai link may have been found for this round. It remains to be seen whether the trail eventually leads back to Pakistan.

{{4. India`s slow peace initiative is a white wash. They are only attempting to gain time to suppress Kashmiri`s movement for independence.}}

The majority of Indian Kashmiris might thank the Indian government for freeing them of the nuisance of having to host terrorist ‘mehmaans’ from Pakistan. Granted it is very bad news for the Pakistani regime – what can they do about it, apart from trying to stir up trouble in other parts of India?

{{ We should not get into any kind of economic relations with India at present …}}

While you are advocating this, how about campaigning to ban the sale of inexpensive Indian pharmaceuticals in Pakistan? And how about agitating to prevent Pakistanis from besmirching the national honour and dignity by travelling to the enemy country for medical treatment which Pakistan cannot provide?

e: pm #81

...that was weak...go back and try again...take a few months if necessary....

ahmadzai #75

`` Should we obtain the services of Indian teachers? ``

A better question for you: Why would an Indian teacher work in Pakistan ? Or that matter any country ??

`` There is a debate going on here on the subject. Without getting into emotionalism, I would say a strong yes to hiring teachers from abroad, but a strong No to hiring them from India. We should not get into any kind of economic relations with India at present in view of the following: ``

From which country do you expect teachers to come from ?


`` 1. India is waging an undeclared, but a very obvious military, economic and diplomatic war on Pakistan. For example, it hindered USA`s selling F16s to us, objected to our included in ASEAN, is a constant pain ion the rear end in commonwealth, etc. ``

Is India doing anything different from Pakistan ?

Why should Pakistan be a member of the ASEAN ? It is a South East Asian grouping.

`` 2. It has turned the war against terrorism into a war against Islam. Subsequent to the Mumbai blasts, its Government and police are harping on the same old ``Islamic Terrorist`` line. Needless to say a terrorist is a terrorist. Why add Islam with every thing negative? ``

Fair enough !!! Why include Islamic in everything ?? Let us start with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan !!!

`` 4. India`s slow peace initiative is a white wash. They are only attempting to gain time to suppress Kashmiri`s movement for independence.``

As much as Mushy promises on cross border inflitration

`` I have nothing against Indians for they are humans too. I would have hoped however, that given their better secular education compared to our ``Madrassi 3rd rated standards``, they would have shunned the propaganda of their extremist Government. This has not happened. ``

Indians take their govt and media propaganda with a pinch of salt. Having said that there is no reason to give Pakistani establishment any benefit of doubt. Or please give me one reason. I favor non-hostile relations even with a Pakistan run by the Taliban if that can be done.

`` The best course of action for Pakistan is getting into bilateral agreements with friendly nations. This is exactly what we are doing nowadays. ``

Try normalizing ties with Afghanistan and Iran. We will see how far that goes.

sameerJB #70

`` Is this just another conspiracy theory? Did Musharraf know about Mushaf Ali Mir`s history before making him Air Chief? Was the crash of C-130 which killed Mushaf Ali Mir and many others just an accident? ``

I would not be surprised if it was sabotage. It was not a C-130. It was a Fokker F-27 or something like that.

If Pakistani military was involved in Sep-11 expect USA to extract its price in blood.

Faisal:
Wherever did you get the idea I was mature?!?! And `Serious`? Well, yeah, self-consciousness often lent me that demeanour.
And what need to feel silly about anything you`ve said anyway? Theo`s daughter was a real known-out-- you think I actually LIKED badminton. ;-)
re. Zahid nihari, well, there`s a better joint three roads down, but alas it will bne Lenny who will have to take you dare, if the two of you so desire, as I visiting Toronto last week of Sept.
Contact me at postmatser@yahoo.com (note the spelling) if you wish. Include your full name so i knw it`s you.
later...

rsaxena:
Yaar, there must be a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Onself that you can check into in NYC. Do yourself a favour and look around.
;)

pm:

i was a classmate of your brother`s for seven years. and i remember you as well. and i remember that you (in comparison to leonard) were pretty serious and mature even back then and i now feel a bit foolish for going on about theo`s daughter. and no, i never took chemistry from errol because (a) chithree put me off chemistry (b) i got intimidated by errorl`s appearence. and funny that you should mention abdul rehman, the biggest lafanga in our class. (had something to do with his mutant sindhi-mohajir ancestry we thought). but amazingly enough, even he came out of school pretty civilized and i cant help but think that our foreign teachers had a role to play in it.

also work permitting, i am planning to be in karachi for a week around first week of october. would like meet you for lunch (zahid`s nihari if possible) if you can find some free time. let me know how i can get in touch with you.

#75

[Sigh...]

It is not about PAKIS wanting foreign teachers. You may be willing to pay top $$$ for their services. But who will want to come and live in the ``Islamic Paradise`` that you guys are well on the way to creating there?

It is not like Indians are waiting to jump on an offer to come to PAKI-land to teach. That won`t happen if you guys don`t get into the proper frame of mind -- ``Conducive Atmosphere`` is not established if you will.

What is being pointed out is a picture of supply and demand. India has the supply and you need it. If like fools you ignore that simple fact, you will pay a heavy price in the open market. It is not like you guys are rolling in moola right?

ahmadzai sahib:

agree with your analysis. i had the opportunity of meeting dr. sumit ganguly (hardline indian professor) who said the same thing. dont agree with your policy prescription. we should not make the same mistake that indians are making, i.e. we should separate actions of govt with that of people. therefore i would not have any problems if govt brings over competent teachers. also on an another matter, what is your take on situation in afghanistan. today’s news is reporting that americans have started talking to some elements of taliban. is there any truth to this story? and in your opinion, is peace possible in afghanistan without bringing taliban (at least the moderate element) into the fold? and will pakistani pushtoons stay out of civil war in afghanistan?

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re: PM

{Understanding is the real challenge. }

...one that you have never mastered and never will....

Should we obtain the services of Indian teachers?

There is a debate going on here on the subject. Without getting into emotionalism, I would say a strong yes to hiring teachers from abroad, but a strong No to hiring them from India. We should not get into any kind of economic relations with India at present in view of the following:

1. India is waging an undeclared, but a very obvious military, economic and diplomatic war on Pakistan. For example, it hindered USA`s selling F16s to us, objected to our included in ASEAN, is a constant pain ion the rear end in commonwealth, etc.

2. It has turned the war against terrorism into a war against Islam. Subsequent to the Mumbai blasts, its Government and police are harping on the same old ``Islamic Terrorist`` line. Needless to say a terrorist is a terrorist. Why add Islam with every thing negative?

3. In the event of any calamity inside India, the extremists in its Government are quick to point their fingers at Pakistan. Rest assured that a Pakistani link will be found in the Mumbai blasts.

4. India`s slow peace initiative is a white wash. They are only attempting to gain time to suppress Kashmiri`s movement for independence.

I have nothing against Indians for they are humans too. I would have hoped however, that given their better secular education compared to our ``Madrassi 3rd rated standards``, they would have shunned the propaganda of their extremist Government. This has not happened.

The best course of action for Pakistan is getting into bilateral agreements with friendly nations. This is exactly what we are doing nowadays.

I would like to hear from other Chowksters, especially of Pakistani origin, on the above argument.

Faisal:
hmmm.. lemme see.. Did your O`s and started your A`s in 87? That would have put you in my brother Leonard`s year, in which case Abdul Rehman, Adnan Ahmed or Mustafa Moosajee might ring some bells? That was the year I joined St. Pat`s to teach middle school computers, fresh outta Interscience. Stuck on till 99! Also did a coupla part-time stints at KGS. Probably wouldn`t know your Mum tho.
The Fernando I was referring to was Errol, not Theo. Theo was an okay dude. He left St. Pat`s a few years ago, presumably with a few sackfuls of currency. Errol (did you take Chem?) is still pretty much part of the local lanscape.
Mr. DeSeram? Well.. the kindest thing that one can say about him is

Manto:
We all make errors of judgement when driven by passion and, yes, by our prejudices. (Not necessarily alluding to you here.) I`m afraid I disagree with your characterization of the Chief Marshall. Labelling is easy, even if sometimes helpful. Understanding is the real challenge.