Pakistan and Israel: Through the prism of realities

YLH, well I reflected on what you said and I guess it has channged a little bit again...for the better.

Stuka...in my older years I am told by my friends that I`ve become softer (they caught me saying a few nice things about a doctor from Vermont). But hey I will try not to disappoint

As for Otto Skorzeny as someone asked, he liased with certain US elements to get out of POW camp in a few months and move to Spain from where, allegedly, he directed the ODESSA project. On the proceeds of his endevors he settled in a nice estate in Ireland and married some German general`s daughter. He died about twenty years ago I believe.

Manto you should know....Great business minds are usually busy on weekends selling pop at gas station...and great military minds guarding the empty office buildings:) while rest of the wehlaRs waste their weekends boating in some remote lakes or lying half naked on asndy beaches.:)

Still no response from Romair wrt my challenge to him to prove my fanaticism as my post addressed to him ....

Shows how shallow his argument was...

Anyone familiar with Otto Skorzeny? He led a snatch of Mussolini after the latter had been captured. Anyone know how he ended the war?

``No matter how you look at it, though, the germans got whipped in WWII``

Not if you compare set piece battles. I think your conclusions tend to be rather colorful. ``Whipped`` is too strong a word, especially if you consider the tough fight the Germans gave throughout the war. The Ardennes offensive is a good example of the Germans counter attacking when least expected.

tahmed #103

{{then there was the famous ``incident`` they staged where a dead body was dressed up in british army clothes, given fake IDs, given brief case handcuffed to his wrist with supposed ``top secret`` allied plans to invade somewhere in south france. the body was then conveniently ``washed ashore`` in spain, which promptly handed it over to the germans}}

You are confusing campaigns. The ruse of the ``Man who never was`` was to mislead the Axis into believeing that the next target of Allied forces in North Africa in 1943 was to be, not Sicily, but Sardinia and Greece. Hence the purported `loan` of ``Major William Martin``, an alleged expert in amphibious landing craft . And there were no ``top-secret plans``, but rather personal letters from Nye to Alexander, and from Mountbatten, broadly hinting at Sardinia and the Balkans as twin targets.

Sigalph: Welcome back. We have been innundated with Bengali commies. Good to see a sane one again ;)

Romair # 51

`` The Israeli influence in the USA business community is also great. Far more than that of India’s. Please read Allen Derschowits’ “The Vanishing American Jew.” It 1999, there were only 3 Indian companies listed on the Nasdaq. Do you know how many Israeli companies there were on the Nasdaq in 1999? I will let you guess. ``

Israeli companies list on the NASDAQ to raise capital. Israel has a puny capital market compared to India. Most of the Israeli companies on the NASDAQ are second or third rate companies. I do not mean to demean Israelis because I would have a hard time even achieving that.

`` Considering the power of the Israeli lobby in the USA, and the voting patterns of pro-Israeli Congressmen, when issues related to Pakistan are debated, I don’t think the threat is imaginary. Just look at how quickly the recent 3 billion dollar aid package to Pakistan, was attacked, in the US Congress. Even though, it had no offensive military weaponary in it, and primarily covered poverty reduction. Why do you think India is so interested in an alliance with Israel? It has its own interests, but it does want to use Israel’s influence in the USA against Pakistan. Whom do you think India plans to use the weapons it buys from Israel, against? It is now signing contracts worth 1 billion dollars a year of military weaponry, with Israel. Would you consider this an imaginary threat? If you do, then could you highlight what a real threat would be? ``

India friendship with Israel is driven by need to acquire sophisticated military technology, to broaden the Indian tech sector and to improve standing in Washington. Pakistan may not achieve any of three objectives even if it recognizes Israel.

ferozk #94 What would life be like if there had been no WWII!! I know my wife would be happier, since I wouldnt be switching on the history channel, and she hates war? (Luckily for her, by now I have seen all the WWII footages there are to be seen, and so dont watch it any more)

Anyway, your defense of the Wehrmacht (Achtung!!) against my allegations that it was sitting on it`s thumb on D-Day is well merited. However, I must point to certain chinks in your defense: first, I think the german generals were as clueless as hitler on where the allies would attack. And the reason was the great pains the allies took to make them confused.
E.g. they had dummy tanks lined up in south england; then there was the famous ``incident`` they staged where a dead body was dressed up in british army clothes, given fake IDs, given brief case handcuffed to his wrist with supposed ``top secret`` allied plans to invade somewhere in south france. the body was then conveniently ``washed ashore`` in spain, which promptly handed it over to the germans. So: the german confusion was due to allied smarts, not due to hitler or anyone else`s fault.

hitler did make enough strategic mistakes elsewhere of course. Some were due to his own arrogance, others due to the arrogance of his air marshall Goering. Goering e.g. assured him that he would wipe out the brits at dunkirk from the air, and then failed to do so.

No matter how you look at it, though, the germans got whipped in WWII. And they have learnt their lesson quite well and are now the most pacifist people on earth. Like those japanese. Next in line are the muslim chauvinists, imho. They need a good whipping so they can forget their dreams of world conquest. The daisy cutters in afghanistan was a great start to bring a dose of reality to those arrogant mullah bast!ards. But I digress...

zabed #98 I think you mean falaise. There was indeed fierce fighting at falaise following the normandy landings. This was the result of the allies (comprising canadian and polish troops on the ground) having encircled 60,000 german troops, and with the allied air attacks then reaping terrible carnage. It was a terrible scene in terms of human suffering even by the standards of world war II, and even allied troops who saw the carnage felt pity for the human aspect of the carnage.

However, it was hardly a shining example of german military genius, as you seem to think. After all, while all that the german strategists accomplished at falaise was to get 60,000 troops encircled and beaten to pulp. Even our hero Niazi did better - he got his troops surrounded, but at least had the decency to quickly surrender rather than causing the deaths of thousands of young men on all sides in the name of heroism.

Looks like to prove to everyone that he indeed is a busy `great business mind` the air marshal has finally managed to restrain himself from posting another incoherent meaning less load of bull-cra-p... how did he manage it... is the great business mind in a straitjacket right now?

Hey Sigalph...

You are back!!!!

:)

-YLH

Re: FerozK post # 94

``Rommel would arrive in Normandy within 24 hours of the invasion having rushed from Ulm and would order, against Hitler`s orders, for the German panzer reserves to move forward to engage the allies``

r u sure abt that? The reserve was used too late coz Hitler was dead against that. The finest defenseive battle fiught by the Wermacht was Fallais!!!! Strangely, the best of Wermacht were in eastern front and still they fought so tenaciously !!!!!!! Did u by any chance read the book ``Panzer commander`` by Colonel Hans von Luck of 21st division in Normandy?

Oh Heavens, you guys are as irredeemable as when I left you a couple of years ago. Oh, goody!

Romair:

``SSP wants a Sunni state in Pakistan, like you stated. And BJP wants a Hindu state in India.``

I have checked the BJP website high and low. Please tell me where it says that the BJP wants a Hindu state? Otherwise admit to making up facts.

PS: Dost Mittar great questions to Romair. I don`t think he will answer you. Expect insults hurled at you instead.