Just Another BLOW-UP?

#87 by rsridhar

`` Did she speculate that the ultimate whore Mushy could have been responsible? ``

hahahaha..... talking about whore... didn`t somebody on this board say that America throws away pakistan as a used condom.

rsidhar: ``Yes, muslims have to bear the brunt mostly because the act was planned by a muslim student militant organisation, supported by terrorists from Pukistan.``

I am truly amazed at how quickly all Indians accept anything uttered by L.K. Advani. How in the world do you know who did or did not support the attack? And whether Pakistan was involved in it, or not?

Isn`t there anyone in India, who is willing to challenge the brainwashing that its govt. throws at it, vis-a-vis Pakistan? What happened to independent thinking? What happened to asking for proof? Every problem in India seems to be Pakistan`s fault.

I could accept the statement if an international inquiry was ordered into this, and if Pakistan is proven to be involved. However, to just randomly pass judgement, is quite immature. It keeps one from facing the skeletons in one`s own closet.

The message one seems to be getting again and again is that everything in India is Pakistan`s fault (deaths in Kashmir, deaths of Sikhs, Hindu-Muslim riots, terrosist acts in Bombay, the rise of the BJP, etc.). However, India does not need to provide any proof, nor does it need to involve any unbiased international agencies to investigate whose fault it is. All it needs is a quote from Advani. This guy has amazing credibility amongst all Indians.

I am not quite sure how Indians can say they want friendship with Pakistan, when every Indian is more than happy to accept any accusation against Pakistan, thrown out by their govt.

I am quite glad Pakistanis are willing to challenge accusations thrown out against India by their govt. The Pakistani govt. breifly tried to blame India for the recent killings in Quetta, but no one in Pakistan accepted the reasoning. So, the govt. dropped it. And the current peace process between India and Pakistan, continued. I certainly would not accept any blame on India (or any other country) for any terrorism in Pakistan, without proof, and without an unbiased investigation.

The best thing India could do is to bring in international organizations to investigate this. Much like Pakistan has done for the terrorist attacks, since Sep 11. These organizations can provide a lot of good technical facilities. They bring credibility. And, most of all, they will not allow the Indian govt. to build up false stories, to enhance its image. It is infact in the interest of the BJP to have continued killings and violence within India. It gets more votes that way. So I doubt the BJP will ever order any biased investigations. Primarily because the truth will come out.

What is most disappointing is that when it comes to accusing Pakistan, even non-BJP supporters line up behind Advani. No wonder the BJP is dominating the Nehruites. All it has to do is to blame Pakistan, and every Indian salutes the BJP.

What is the word for, ``introspection`` in Hindi? Or is there such a word in Hindi, to begin with?

re: Farzana Bibi`s replies
FB asks innocently where she had justified the blasts in her article. Her whole article had this tone of justification. What is one to make out of the statement where she claims she knew this was coming from the ASI report? If i were to say, after the Gujarat pogram (which i never have) that muslims had it coming, what would the chowkies here think about such a statement?

I think people like FB are ambivalent about a lot of thing. All this ambivalence is their own creation. FB asks innocently why this is being made into a muslim-hindu thing. Hey, it was already so when the bombs were planted by a student organisation. 30% of muslims may have been injured but they were the unintended victims. Who were the intended victims? Which religion did the intended victims belong to? I am sure i do not have to repeat what is obvious. What was the religon of the students of the organization SIMI? Did she condemn that organisation? I did not see words of condemnation. Did she speculate that Pukistan could have aided in this design (yes, yes. I know it is ISI but it is in Pukistan)? Did she speculate that the ultimate whore Mushy could have been responsible? All these are within the realm of possibilities though each is hard to prove. But what is wrong in speculation?
But she did none of those speculations. Instead, she speculates that ASI report, not yet released or read by Supreme court, could have caused the bomb blasts. Some nerve this dame has. Does she realise the implications of that statement. So, everytime a muslim feels disgruntled with a court verdict, he/she will go out and plant a bomb.
She keeps bringing in the seer of Kanchi into her discussion. Can she or can she not say a plain yes or no without bringing in somebody else`s opinion into the matter? As a journalist does she have an opinion of her own or not?
Now, there is one thing about this SIMI. Whatever their motivationis, it is pretty stupid to kill innocent people. They only project the worst values of Islam. They live in India and harm India. What are the rest to make of it? These people need to be weeded out. Let us see if some muslims can take up arms agains SIMI, form another organisation like SIMI (only, this will be pro-India) and fight for India. But i know they won`t. Why do in, for instance, not see Indian muslims outside of Kashmir, take up jehad against the terrorists from Pukistan causing mayheim in Kashmir? Why do i not see jehadi units spring up from India to defend India? I am sure it is all about Ummah. The concept is dead in practice but it lives in the minds of Indian muslims.
The great split has already happened. In years to come, muslims of India have to clearly stte their position: are they with India or not? There can be no ambuguity on that score.
Sridhar

Farzana #78
``It is sick that an article on such a subject is being judged along the lines of Indian abuse vs Pakistani rahs. ``

Since when have you started feeling sick dear lady? I felt sick and angered when I saw that first response to this tragedy is on chowk is an article which speculates if this bomb is an election gimmick.

You do not believe ASI - I can understand that - It is a government organ. What about high court? You won`t wait for that too! Do you have faith in any Indian institution to handle this situation?

re: FBs reply

``These sort of expressions confirm what I stated: That Muslims have to bear the onus whether they are killed or Hindus are killed.”
You got that right missy. At last some grey cells are functioning in your brain. Yes, muslims have to bear the brunt mostly because the act was planned by a muslim student militant organisation, supported by terrorists from Pukistan. This is a fight between secularism and terrorism, democracy and fundamentalism. Muslims in India cannot be ambiguous anymore. They have to make a choice.
sridhar

Farzana,
Really good article. I am really worried at the BJP/VHP thing... and what it is doing to the country.

Harimau #77, grow up!

the subject is timely and relevant, true; however, an article cannot be judged on subject alone... and it is pretty evident that the interactions were divided on national and religious moorings... can`t comment on the amount of sense or nonsense in their heads though...
obviously the hysterical attacks from one group triggers off the supportive reaction from the other... I read the article a number of times and while it wasn`t great, I couldn`t understand what was getting these guys so riled up... sure the author`s views might rub some the wrong way... but they are her views which she has a right to express... and I don`t see why she should condemn the blasts... you and I are not asked to condemn it... obviously any decent normal human being wouldn`t support acts of terror... and I should certainly be offended if I was asked to specifically declare that I condemn bomb blasts in order to prove I was a normal human being.... am totally with farooq shaikh on this.

stuka #74,

i`m not necessarily complimenting them, but i`m not talking about them sleeping with so and so either.

Re: #78 by FarzanaVersey
``It is sick that an article on such a subject is being judged along the lines of Indian abuse vs Pakistani rahs. ``
sick indeed. and it is such sick minds, with their twisted dogmas, that lead to conflicts, strifes, blasts et al.

Aaisha:

Thank you.

Scout: I had no idea that you were so Americanized that you would pick the Western interpretation of the owl oher the desi. My Humble Apologies.

Thank You. Come Again.

Farzana#78
Temporal was right to condemn violent action by states, especially STates. The targetting of the Gujarati dominated areas in the bomb attacks since December does suggest that they are in retaliation against the state-supported mayhem in Gujarat last year. The bakery case only confirms the state complicity. And who can blame the youth who saw what they saw in Feb-March 2002 for being filled with a burning feeling of revenge?
It is still not too late for sensible leaders, even the Advani types, to deal with the root causes. A good start would be to bring to justice those reponsible for the Ahmedabad/Baroda as well as Godhra killings.

It is sick that an article on such a subject is being judged along the lines of Indian abuse vs Pakistani rahs. People with sense/nonsense have made observations, irrespective of their nationality or religious moorings. And for those who have been quoting temporal’s words that are a “healing touch”, please read carefully: “...there can be no justification of any deliberate violent act against civilians...none whatsoever...be they by individuals, organizations or states...” OR STATES. Get it?

Regarding the ASI report, there is no simple yes or no. The Kanchi shankaracharya changed his tune and his name will be mentioned as much as any maulvi’s. He did not have a simple yes or no. Neither does the prime minister of my country. From my article: “Because the prime minister of India had declared at the funeral of Ramchandra Paramhans that his wish to have a temple built at Ayodhya would be fulfilled even as he spoke about going by the court verdict.”

Yes there was a peace march…Shiv Sainiks too were present, while Mr. Thackeray talked about bringing in the LTTE to fight terrorism! A good time was had by all. Only Farooque Sheikh, an actor and peace activist, did mention what I do (The Asian Age, Aug 28): “It is a tragic state of affairs that after every blast Muslims have to say that we condemn these attacks. At such times of crisis we get carried away and fail to think on our own. It is unfortunate and uncouth to count how many Muslims are amongst the victims. It is high time that we get rid of these perceptions and understand that people who feed these perceptions in us are the sole beneficiaries. We should not reiterate that we condemn these attacks but simply move on.”

[When i hoped that muslims in India would condemn the bomb blasts, FB became defensive. Why only the muslims?]
My full response: “Why only the Muslims? Have I not been told elsewhere that 30 % of those dead are Muslims? So, who is making it into a Hindu-Muslim issue? And if it is Muslims behind this act (something I do not rule out), then why would they do that? On that particular day? These sort of expressions confirm what I stated: That Muslims have to bear the onus whether they are killed or Hindus are killed.”

[Because any act of terrorism today is somehow linked to muslims terrorists. I am not alone in saying it. That is how it is. That is the common perception. That is why, condemning such acts and taking a pro-active stand means a lot. FB, in her whole article, did not condemn the bomb blasts. She tried to justify them. That was sickening.]
My response was: “What caused the blasts of August 25, 2003? The Home Minister has said it could be the Lashkar-e-Taiba together with SIMI. The same modus operandi was used as in 1993. Busy public areas. Afternoon. Parked vehicles carrying the explosives.”

I would like someone to point out ONE statement where I have justified the blasts.

Stuka (#63): It is such falsehoods that snowball into something nasty. The problem is silence is seen as a cop-out. Interestingly, no one has commented on my statement, “Do the Muslims want to hold on to a Personal Law for their own gains? I will go along with the poet Hassan Kamal that the Muslims should agree to a blueprint regarding a uniform civil code; as he said, the other minorities too have grouses against it but conveniently let the Muslims do the shouting, and the Hindus will suffer as well. This is the time for Muslims to stop being ostriches, and they might just find that others are burying their heads in the sand.” I find it very revealing.

For now, I shall leave with your words, “You wrote an article and people are free to comment on it. You don`t owe anyone an explanation, least of all to those who will suspect your integrity regardless of what you say.”

Ahem... Stuka, Scout:
patthey does not mean son, it means chela/student.
If you call someone an Ullo ka pattha, it can have two meanings, taking up the western one, owl is a wise animal and so you would be complimenting the person`s teacher(s). if we take it in the sub continental way, it would be a slur on the teaching capabilities of any of your teacher(s).
But all the same, i think it is a very cute term of endearment...:D

This is very interesting. All (or most of) the Indians on this board seem to hate Ms Versey, all the Pakistanis seem to love her. What`s going on??

I thought this was an ok article, one that deserved neither so much abuse (as by the Indian side), nor so many rah rahs (as it got from the Pakistanis). But then if some people take one extreme position, some other people are bound to take the other...

I thought dost mittar`s was the most balanced response. I`d be interested to see what the author has to say in reply.
Anyway, leaving aside speculations on what caused Murderous Monday...

I`d like to join dostmittar in saying hurrah to the indomitable spirit of the average Bombayite, whom it appears no calamity or act of terror can cow down.
I think it`s admirable that the very next day the city was more or less back to normal, with people going about their work, and parents sending off their kids to school as usual. Yesterday the Sensex had plummeted, today it has bounced back.
This is the only fitting reply to terrorists. Not to be terrified. More power to Bombaywallahs.
God bless them.

Scout..

owls are wise animals, so don`t even...

Oh, so u mean..everytime u call Desi guys Ullu key Patthey u are complimenting them and their fathers?

:)

I mean..c`mon..

stuka,

owls are wise animals, so don`t even...