Myths and Dreams: Hindutva Nationalism and the Indian Diaspora

angana is not alone in saying what she says....

there are more...

pls. check out this site:


the campaign to stop funding hate

re: pankaj

{A rhetorical (biased) article coming from a card carrying ``progressive (read communist)``... }


...exactly...at least it gives young romair a hard-on...

re: trinity

{ But the fact is that today we need more voices of dissent against the system where Narendra Modi can get reelected, where gujarat was only a ``lab experiment``, where thousands of new hindutava cells are being established to control in other states - Rajasthan and Orrisa. }

...the voice of dissent against bush`s right wing agenda should not be howard stern, should it?...

re: #27

...maybe she would have if you hadn`t started e-stalking her...

wonder if the good professor
would moderate her board here?

#23 trinity

I am sorry but you are evading the issue as far as the author goes. Here is the relevant quote:

[quote]
Among adivasi communities, such ‘development’ inflicts their forcible incorporation into Hinduism. This is unacceptable even if adivasis materially benefit from development because it facilitates cultural genocide
[end-quote]

The author says that hindus are FORCIBLY (do you understand what that word means?) making tribals into Hindus (never mind that 100s of hindu tradition have obvious tribal origins). Do you agree???

Do you think tribals are being FORCIBLY converted to hinduism?. Please answer YES or NO. If YES, please provide some evidence.

And that further this is cultural genocide !!! Do you know what genocide means? It means the systematic destruction of a people. And the hindus are systematically destroying the tribals culture. AND NO ONE ELSE IS. Not industrialization, not TV, not the missionaries, not the fundamentalist muslim groups. Just the hindus !!!

This is absolute rubbish. THere is nothing to discuss here other than the author`s delusions.

I have mentioned in a previous post that in certain indian states where christians were under 10% 50 years ago, we know have 90% christians. Was that not ``cultural genocide``???? Was the author asleep when that happened? Has the author demonstrated outside the Baptists headquarters in Lynchville or wherever to protest? NO

Twisted and demagogic criticism should be treated as just that. When Narendra Modi pretends to be talking about family planning and says ``Hum Panchh, Hamera Pachhees`` we curse his ugly and one-sided words.

But when Anjana makes all kinds of fantastic and one-sided statements about hindus they are OK.

What kind of logic is this? No wonder the BJP has such an easy time winning elections in India. Even an illiterate person can see the illogic of this article.

It is good to see some introspection from our Indian colleagues. It is unfortunate that it takes explosions before such introspection takes place.

There is definitely support (perhaps a lot of support) for Hinduvta in the Indian business community, at least in the successful IT Diaspora (that I am familiar with). I am not quite sure why. These individuals do not fit into the classical fanatic model. They are generally mild-mannered, well adjusted into a foreign secular society, very educated, etc. etc. Yet they do support BJP, and its policies. Even people like VS Naipaul are supporters of BJP. As are actors like Shutru Sinha and Vinod Khanna (Hima Malani???). Artists usually are very liberal, so this is an interesting phenomenon.

Every society has its nutcases. But when otherwise normal educated sophisticated people start supporting extremism (www.bjp.org), then it is dangerous. It indicates something bigger in action, than extremism. It indicates an acceptance of extremism, or a potential acceptance of it, as a norm. This is what happened in Pakistan in 1971. The society, as a whole, accepted extremism. People who could not hurt a fly, otherwise, bought into violent suppression, nationalism etc.

I had a discussion with an Indian acquaintance about problems faced by India. I asked him about the disenfranchisement of Indian Muslims. He said that it was a ticking time bomb.

There are eerie resemblences between the condition of Muslims in India now, and the condition of Bengalis in Pakistan in 1971. I recently read the statistics of participation of both groups in mainstream areas like military, civil services, etc. and the figures are almost identical. The social gap and its increase seem to be the same. West Pakistan was growing well economically, while East Pakistan stayed constant. Indian Hindus are growing well economically, while Indian Muslims are constant economically. West Pakistanis called many Bengalis Indian agents. Indian Hindus do the same to many Indian Muslims etc. etc.

There is nothing much that Pakistan can do to India, despite all the paranoia created by the Indian govt. (other than fire a nuke at India). I say this as someone who has good knowledge of Pakistan’s and India’s military power, ok knowledge of Pakistan’s economy and so-so knowledge of India’s economy. Countries 1/7th the size, at the some economic level cannot do much to India.

However, India could implode, much like Pakistan imploded in 1971. The only difference is that Pakistan’s implosion occurred in a distant area, which could be easily separated. Indian Muslims do not exist in separate areas. They are spread all over the place. And their implosion will be far nastier than what happened to Pakistan in 1971.

Our Indian friends would be well advised to put their nationalism, of both the Hinduvta and Nehru variety, on the backburner, and start using a Gandhian human rights as a criteria for handling situations. They would also be well advised to not accept any blame placed on Pakistan for any Indian issue, without unbiased proof from international agencies. Only then will their govt. be forced to handle the social issues that exist in India, with Muslims and Hindus.

None of the above can happen when the individual defining the tone and responsible for placing the blame for such situations, is one of the biggest human rights violators of 20th century South Asia, Mr. Advani. Unfortunately, even non-BJP and anti-BJP Indians seem willing to follow his lead, when it comes to nationalistic issues.

Looks like this is the season for articles on India. That`s to be welcomed. We have three concurrent specimens of extreme positions at chowk now:
Tahir Mirza`s article presents an extreme picture of Muslim Indians.
Garg`s article is typical of the mythology about Muslims
Now Ms Chatterjee presents a quintessential pseudo-secularist viewpoint.
All of them contain some germs of truth but no one presents a balanced picture. My views on this article have been expressed by other Indians on this board and I have expressed them myself in an article elsewhere. What I said in my `Hey Ram` article applies equally to NRI Hindus.
I agree with Stuka that the article is one-sided. If imitation is the best form of flattery, By George, the Hindutvavadis have done it to the Christians. They have totally copied the Christian model of combining social activities - schools, hospitals, social welfare - with a dose of religion. Where was/is this moral outrage of the likes of Ms Chatterjee against Christian missionaries, not only Indians but also well-funded by Non-NRI foreigners? In fact, these pseudo-secularists found the christian activites quite admirable even though they were fostering a culture on the tribals even more alien to them than the one being fostered by the Hindutvavadis.
I am against converting tribals to any religion and would like them to retain their indigenous cultures and belief systems to the extent possible with economic progress. But what is good for the goose is definitely good for the gander, too. In any case, it is perhaps more likely for these tribals to retain their various belief systems with the amorphous umbrella of Hinduism than with the monotheistic ``my way or doorway`` philosphies of the middle east.
I think the christian missionary work was good for the tribals and poor people because it improved their miserable lives to some extent. I hold the similar views about the work of these `hindutva` missionaries, as long as they do not promote hatred towards other religions. The missionary competetion will probably improve the health and education of the impoverished faster than the state alone can do it. So, let the competition thrive!

Urstruly:
``The only difference between then and now is that Hinduism has already turned on its own adherents.``
It`s not clear how Hinduism has turned on Hindus.

Re: #22 pmishra

Similarly, I am sure the author isn`t proposing that forced conversion to any religion are OK. So lets talk about the point the author is making - that the Sangh Parivar brand of hindutava is perpetuating communal violence in India and that funding to organizations supporting such philosophy should be checked.

What I have seen thus far is only slandering and attacking the author. Why focus on the messanger and not the message.

#18 trinity

No one is arguing that the Sangh Parivar`s version of Hindu culture is the best thing possible. What we are arguing about here are comments that suggest that only conversion to hinduism is objectionable, that only the hindus are sources of extremism in India, and that finally, and most astonishingly, that this author who is an immigrant making a good living in the USA, condemns Indians for following dynamic economic practices from the USA!!!!

What sense does that make?

pmishra2 # 15,

I share your frustrations too on many such self-proclaimed champions of poor and downtrodden. Arundhati Roy won an award for a beautiful book she authored. That does not automatically qualify her to be an expert on everything else under the sun.

Adios

stuka, rsaxena, pankaj,

You can call this leftist, marxist, commie, or what ever else you like. But the fact is that today we need more voices of dissent against the system where Narendra Modi can get reelected, where gujarat was only a ``lab experiment``, where thousands of new hindutava cells are being established to control in other states - Rajasthan and Orrisa.

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#9 Urstruly,

Your analysis is very accurate, couldn`t agree more.

pmishra et al,

``Taking pride in your history and religion ...``

There was once a saint-patriot of India who is revered in both the East and West alike because his message was one of spirituality and strength of both mind and body, he challenged us to rise above creed caste rituals and myths. He taught that Siva was not to be found in the temple but in the poor that we serve. Yes, Swami Vivekananda.

And then there is the brand of Hinduism being propagated by the Sangh Parivar steeped deep in myths and rituals. They it would seem have successfully encapsulated all of hinduism into one temple. And the measure of their success is being witnessed in the various religious conflicts around India.

Yes, we should take pride in our identity and in our heritage. But should we divorce our senses and turn a blind eye to this hijacking of the Hindu religion and culture by the likes of Modi/Tagodia and the saffron clad men of Sangh Parivar?

nazarhayatkhan,

May I suggest you read some of Ayesha Jalal`s works before you keep repeating the same mantra?

-Manto

For the record I always saw P-Mishra as a right wing fanatic posing as a secular liberal. Bravo! Atleast P-mishra has dropped his pretensions and come out in his true colors. Too bad he is still trying to associate himself with stuka which is just not on. For example it must be remembered that Stuka`s opposition to Ms. Roy is based on his opposition to marxism and not secularism.

He has also now added a leaf from romair`s book by castigating the `secular fundamentalists` ... strange bed fellows... Romair and P-Mishra.