Muslim League’s Politics (1937-1947)

rsridhar:

Reference your various posts (#189-192), seems like that in line with the current trends in India, you would rather kill a Muslim named dionysus than discuss anything after shedding off your emotionalism.

I have learnt that you are a doctor. This may be medical or phiolsophical. In any case, keeping the respect for the profession/education we would expect you to be reasonable and sensible in your posts. There is an interesting discussion going on. Why bring in religious emotionalism - this being very un-south Indian don`t you think?

Bharatvarsha and Aryavarta are BOTH historically valid names. Aryavarta is the older name mentioned in the oldest scriptures available.``Bharatvarsha`` was popularised by the 4th century Sanskrit poet Kalidas in his play Shakunthalam. Obviously it is a better choice today since the Nazis have disgraced the term ``Aryan``.

By at least 500 BC the time of the Buddha the word ``Arya`` implied noble rather than race, caste or anything else. The community he established was known as the ``Arya Sangha`` - every single Buddhist concept has the prefix ``Arya`` like ...

Buddhism according to the Buddha was ``Arya Dhamma`` or ``Arya Dharma``
The Buddhist community was the ``Arya Sangh``
The Four Noble Truths are the ``Chatur Arya Satya``
The Noble Eightfold Path is the ``Arya Ashtangika Marga``

the list goes on ... (perhaps you should learn some Pali ?)

Most of India was Buddhist soon after including South India.

But I see you are not intrested in learning but in trading insults so ...... Goodbye.

---

(A Parting gift )

Tarana-I-Hind by IQBAL

Sare Jahan se achachha Hindustan hamara,
hum bulbulen hainiski yeh gulistan hamara!

Ghurbat men hon agar ham rehta hai dil watan men,
Samjho wahin hamen bhi dil ho jahan hamara!

Parbat woh sab se uncha hamsaya aasmaan ka,
woh santari hamara, woh pasban hamara!

Godi men khelti hain iski hazaron nadiyan,
Gulshan hai jinke dam se rashke jinan hamara

Aiy ab-e-rood-i-ganga ! woh din hain yaad tujhko,
utra tere kinare jab karavan hamara!

Mazhab nahin sikhata apas men bair rakhna
Hindi hain ham watan hai Hindustan hamara!

Yunan-o-misr-o-Roma sab mit gaye jahan se,
ab tak magar hai baqi nam-o-nishaan hamara!

***********************************************
Kuchh bat hai ki hasti mitthi nahin hamari,
sadiyon raha hai dushman daur-i-zaman hamara
***********************************************
Iqbal! koi mehram apna nahin jahan men
Ma`loom kya kisi ko dard-i-nihan hamara!

re:#187 by dionysus

Who the fukc are you to assume what south indians are going to feel? I am a south indian and i do not feel bad. India was called Aryavartha in the old times. Llet me remind you that there is no word like ``Aryan`` in the whole of sanskrit literature. It is corrupted by western authors. The word is ``Aryas`` literally meaning ``good people``. So, Aryavartha literally means a land inhabited by ``good people``. Arya was also commonly used as a way of respect after some one`s name (the same as Ji that we use today eg Gandhiji). The sanskrit word ``anarya`` literally means ``not fair or good`` or as they say in America ``not kosher``.

Now, as i said, go back to your frikking madrassa and start memorizing those lines. You are wasting too much time interacting with the infidels.

Sridhar

re:#179 by dionysus
You still lurking here. I thought i told you to go to your madrassa and memorize your Qoran. Mullah Omar is going to be pissed off.
Sridhar

re:#170 by dionysus
Tut, tut.
I told you in another forum to go and memorize your Qoran. Mullah Omar is going to be very unhappy. You need to brush up on the verses related to ``Jehad`` and ``How to kill infidels``.
Sridhar

re:#178 by dost-mittar
I was talking more in terms of the reaction of the masses to the idea of Secularism. In 1950, people had witnessed religous carnage. There were a lot of people who were very angry. Yet, there was no major opposition to making Indian Constitution a secular one. I do believe hindus are inherently secular.
Sridhar

Alephnull #185 ``You have made this unfounded claim more than once. On the contrary, Bharatvarsh applies to the entire region south of the Himalayas, north of the sea. The term is not of recent coinage; it is found in the Puranas with that specific definition, with its inhabitants called Bharatis. ``

Unfounded? Let`s see some evidence. The term is not of recent coinage but its application to the whole of South Asia, and not to some mythical Hindu kingdom in UP, IS recent.

BTW, our friend roohi`s latest offering is `AryaVarta`. Now which is it? AryaVarta or Bharat Varsha? Why can you `Indians` not agree on the native historical name of your `country` which has existed since time immemmorial in your united and highly elevated consciousnessnesses (allegedly) ? This is simply astounding.

Tell you what. Why don`t you and roohi do a little uniting of conciousnessess, make up your minds about what exactly is the name of your `country` Arya Varta or Bharat Varsha and then come back here.

Dear Roohi,
`Aryavarta` means the `Land of the Aryans`. You know, those nice white people who invaded South Asia and wiped out most of the native Dravidians and either enslaved the remaining ones as low-cast Shudras or drove them to the South. I wonder what our South Indian Dravidian friends think about their country being called `Aryavarta`!

Try again!

``What is the native historical name of this `country` of yours in whose name you justify the rape, murder and torture of innocents?``

I think you are confused. This discussion is about India and not Pakistan.

#179 Hello - The most ancient indeginous name is ``Aryavarta``

The name is not important, the idea is. The word Arya did not historically have the conotations it has today. Even the Buddha called his following the arya-sangha.

``The noble ideal (arya-dharma) and the noble discipline (arya-vinaya) were set forth for the aspiring candidates. The path to be pursued by the noble aspirant is the Noble Eightfold Path (arya-astangika-marga.) and the truth to be believed by the noble is the Noble Fourfold Truth (catvari arya-satyani). The perfections attained by the noble were the four noble fruitions (arya-phala) and the wealth to be possessed by the noble was the noble sevenfold wealth (sapta. arya-dhana), all being spiritual qualifications. The careful application of the word ‘arya’ to each of the important points of his institution must not be overlooked by a student of Buddhism. The Buddha thus seemed to have endeavored to revive the original meaning of arya in personality and the daily life of his religious community.``

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~maa1/chi/newbud/ideal.htm

dionysus #170

{{Just tell us why this vast subcontinent of a multitude of distinct and separate races, languages and cultures is a nation called `India`.}}

Because the overwhelming majority of the inhabitants of that vast territory choose to be citizens of a single nation called India – or at at any rate haven’t expressed dissatisfaction with their citizenship of that nation. If you ask them, they’ll tell you that they’re Indians, or at least not disown the appellation.

Because that nation has inherent viability today based in the shared historical consciousness of a majority of its inhabitants. Because the majority of the distinct cultures have been smelted in the crucible of a larger overarching civilization. Because a majority of the local traditions are tributaries to or distributaries from the river of a great tradition. Because a majority of the citizens speak languages that get a large part of their vocabulary from common ancestors or a common source of borrowings. Because there have been substantial population movements back-and-forth across the land throughout its history, and no part of the mainland has been truly insular. Because the ‘races’ are thoroughly mixed and this process can be expected to continue.

Most of all, because the underlying civilization has historically regarded ‘racial’, linguistic, cultural diversity, as a normal, not a pathological, condition. It will readily accept and assimilate into its mosaic all those who do not reject it, without reducing them to a uniform nondescript homogenous mass.

You at any rate seem to behave as though India, the concept and the nation, is real enough. It would be ludicrous to have nightmares over a mere phantasm, something that has no solid and permanent existence.

Dionysus #172

{{And oh yeah, what is the name of this `country` of yours? Let`s look at the candidates so far:

...

Bharat Varsh - the land of a mythological Hindu prince, historically only applies to a certain area in the Gangetic Plain. ...}}

You have made this unfounded claim more than once. On the contrary, Bharatvarsh applies to the entire region south of the Himalayas, north of the sea. The term is not of recent coinage; it is found in the Puranas with that specific definition, with its inhabitants called Bharatis.

stuka #174 ``Crap. Aurangzeb chronicles fighting far south in the Deccan and it is still referred to as hind ``

This is an outright lie. The Mughals, including Aurganzeb, distinguished sharply between Hind and the Deccan. Historically the North West subcontinent was considered to consist of several distinct nations: Hind, Sind, Punjab & Kashmir. Hind was ONLY the Hindi speaking areas. No Sindhi or Punjabi, Hindu or Muslim, historically ever considered himself to be a `Hindustani` a term which always had derogatary overtones in these areas.

``Crap again. Tthe Ramayana has reference to Bharat as well as Lanka. I don`t think Lanka was ever in the Gangetic belt. ``

For a Hindu nationalist your knowledge of Hindu mythology is piss-poor. ``Bharat Varsh`` was never anything more than the area covered by King Bharat`s kingdom - a region south of the Himalayas in present day UP around a capital in Jambudweepa. It was 19th century Hindu fanatics who adopted this word for their new proposed `nation` of `India`.

Come on now, stuka, this is getting embarrasing. What is the native historical name of this `country` of yours in whose name you justify the rape, murder and torture of innocents?

dingbat dionysus:

We already told ya that Bharatvarsha is the ancient name of India. If you choose to think it was the Gangetic plain because your baapu was doing kheti there, it is your problem. The name exists even in the Ramayana which was written by Indians. Their also reference to Lanka, reference to travel jungles etc till the ocean is reached.

You can take a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink. In your case, it should be donkey.

Dear roohi,
Megasthenis, Huan Tsang and Al-Beruni...all three were foriegners who used foriegn designations for the subcontinent. Please tell us the NATIVE name for this entity you now call `India` and which you claim has been a nation since immemorial. Please do this quickly as it is becoming extremely embarrasing that blood and guts nationalists like stuka and pmishra don`t even know the historical native name of their own `country`. I`m assuming it does have one. :)


Cheers...and good luck...you`re gonna need it. LOL!

Rsridhar #163

{{I bet Field Marshal Romair has not read even one of the books written on Gandhiji (there are a plethora of them).}}

RSridhar, you have done the Field Marshal a great injustice. You owe him an abject apology. We know that Romair has picked up at least one book on the Mahatma – by Stanley Wolpert. There is reason to believe he has even read parts of it because he ventured to review it for Chowk: see Gandhi’s Passion.

Wolpert is now enshrined in Romair’s pantheon as the ultimate credible, objective and impartial authority on ‘South Asian` history, cheek-by-jowl with such luminaries as Eric Margolis, the last word on the Afghan War and ‘South Asian’ politics, and Brian Cloughley, the reigning authority on ‘South Asian’ militaries.

The reasons for Wolpert’s deification aren’t difficult to divine. Wolpert has used the technique of highly selective quotation to paint a certain picture of Gandhi’s opinions on Kashmir’s accession to India. Romair has in turn selectively quoted from Wolpert to push his pet project – the ‘Kashmir liberation struggle’. When Romair is confronted with other quotations from the Mahatma’s speeches on Kashmir that paint an entirely different picture, the response is dead silence. I wonder why?

pmishra #176 ``If you had even the slightest knowledge of history, you would also be aware that till the mid 19th century there was no such country as Italy or Germany. All of them emerged in the middle of the 1800`s. From your point of view they do not actually exist??? ``

I`ve already this issue, arsehole, and I`m not going to repeat myself.