Muslim League’s Politics (1937-1947)

re: YLH

I agree with the last paragraph of your essay and that was, and is, the crux of the matter. Pakistan was an accident of diplomatic power maneuverings and it was nothing more than a ploy to force the Congress to adopt a more flexible approach vis-a-vis the muslim interests. There is a reason to justify the blame on Congress for creating Pakistan, because had it compromised and was willing to share power, as agreed in the Cabinet Mission Plan, the idea of Pakistan would have never resulted in a reality.

The last paragraph says it all.

Ciao

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Irum I respect you view a lot... however that is not my assertion at all..


Ferozk,

You are right. Pakistan was a product of history... nothing more nothing less. No ideological basis needed.

So, Mantolives is Yasser Hamdani.

I must praise your attempt at providing a framework for rationally considering the political exigencies, traumas and misunderstandings that led to the partition. This will definitely serve as a springboard for discussion at Chowk for understanding, urged by me to Nazarhayatkhan due to his obviously calm statements of problems, the political and ethnic mess Pakistan has become by everyone`s admission. India is somewhat better but can degenerate into a Pakistan analog of Hindus.

I will refrain from commenting on the substance of your presentation till some some thrashing of the facts is done by Pakistanis themselves. I wish you luck, however, since you can see that both ferozk and irum have misunderstood your thrust and I commend you on your dissenting to imply a revaluation of the assertions implied by you, for the developments that you seek.

From our previous interactions on the related issues, it is essential to propound the objective of your reasonings. That would allow for a coherent understanding by the discussants.

Irum -

I totally agree with you.

It has been clearly established by the South Asian historians that the Congress Party shoved Pakistan down Jinnah’s throat. Jinnah, by not relenting and accepting a Pakistan, in what many historians consider to be a defeat for his quest to protect ALL Muslims of the Subcontinent, gave all those who now live within the geographical boundaries that constitute Pakistan an identity, that of a Pakistani.

Human nature longs for an identity. This yearning for an identification is a very powerful psychological force. Establishing an identity is a remarkable psychological achievement. All those people who now identify themselves as Pakistanis should be very grateful to Jinnah, their true hero, for providing them with a separate and a distinct identity...and of course, to Nehru and the Congress Party for lending Jinnah a helping hand.

Re : Article
That is an interesting perspective. In defense of the congress leaders at that time, they felt that they needed a united India to rebuild the nation. Keeping the Muslim league around would mean that every decision would be analyzed from a Hindu and a Muslim perspective.

Regards,

Faruk

Yasser

just a quick read thus far…would highlight two points:

1: The All India Muslim League was founded in 1906 with the express purpose of safeguarding Muslim interests in a united India.

...please check out the minutes of the resolution…if you do not know already…from memory… “we the Nawabs, talukdars, faujdars…. :)

…one can deduce that the concern for ordinary Muslims was far from their mind!…in fact the ordinary Muslim entered the ML fray only after Gandhi had initiated enrolling them in Congress ( the famous char anna membership campaign)…ML had no choice but to abandon its elitist posture and take measures to spread its base by soliciting mass participation

2: By 1933 Rahmat Ali, a student at Cambridge University, came out with an eccentric scheme which he called `Pakistan : Our Fatherland`.

…the pamphlet was called Now or Never…the year was 1932…check with his admirer the indefatigable historian K.K. Aziz who has retired to Lahore…(digression: one of the original signatories is still alive aslam khattack…must be nearing 100…chowk writer zeejah’s uncle)…

…the name he selected was PAKSTAN…later an I was inserted…it is this I that is the cause of so much fluctutation in the fortunes of the dreamland…;)...the pakistani leaders tend to look at all issues from their prism of self interest ( the I)...they seldom look at the long term interests of the nation...

3:I want this to be first in a series of articles by Pakistanis and Indians to unemotionally reconsider the events of that very important decade in our history which seem to blur our judgement when it comes to making decisions in the present.

…I have said this in the past, delving unduly in the past is counter productive in the face of onerous problems facing the dreamland…

…what is the difference in digging up quotes from jinnah, rajaji, patel, azad and abu hareira, abdurrehman ibn auf, salman farsi?…those who do so with or without relish have this quality dominant…they like to long for a past that is no more…

…one must do what one can to alleviate the present suffering of the masses and leave the dialectic interpretations and debates of what-ifs to the staid scholars ;)

rgds,

t

I also emphatically agree with temporal...

Keep harking back to the past is an exercise in futility. Pakistanis should only be concerned about the present and the future of their country...where the country is today and how to make it a better country for all those who live there should be the only thing on their minds...past is gone...nothing can be done about it now...but the future matters and something can certainly be done about it...

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IMH&HO . . . (humble and honest) . . . at a real-time real-life chowk, we dream about the future . . . discussion veers but always towards the morrow . . . sure, we see the yesteryears passing by, but like funeral corteges, pay your respects and get along with life.

I think this article makes a strong case for an experimental ban at the chowk on any articles about the distant past.

kaurasach

Did you even read the article? Instead of making such rants point to specific points you disagree with... factually please. Nobody is suggesting religion is a binding force (read the article.. my argument is quite the contrary)... take it out of your head. Waisay I have never met a sunni curses `Ali`...


temporal and godot,

Thanks for the corrections t...

But with all due respect you have now opened the door to a floodgate of self righteousness which will now flow from people who will not discuss the article but will opine `oh we should think of the present`... this is a simple article which is there to undo the rape of History that has occured on both sides of the border... let it be... I am amazed at how everything ends up with `you should care about the suffering of the people in the present`... Pakistan is secure in its identity... This article has nothing to do with Pakistan... it has to do with presenting the facts in their true light. I appeal to people instead of advising me on what should I do, debate the merits of the article...

temporal your entire ``what is the difference in digging up quotes from jinnah, rajaji, patel, azad and abu hareira, abdurrehman ibn auf, salman farsi?…`` is out of line because it assumes that I am merely praising Jinnah or something... nothing in the above mentioned can be assumed to be any praise of any individual... or in denigration of any either.

Anyway... the question of Identity is not closed... Pakistan is imagined to be an ideological state by our official pakistani ideologues... and this stops us from many of our aims and objectives... therefore, it is important the record be set straight...


-YLH

temporal

there you have it... now veeresh has joined the bandwagon... happy now?

On the one hand, people on this site keep harping about how History books in Pakistan and India are teaching lies, but when one tries to present a neutral view... he is bashed for looking far back in the distant past.

This from a person who was full of praise for my `tilak and Gokhale` article.

Inquirer,

Thanks for your encouragement...

``From our previous interactions on the related issues, it is essential to propound the objective of your reasonings. That would allow for a coherent understanding by the discussants.``

My objective is simply to undo the rape of history that has occured on both sides of the border. The Muslim League and its leadership were neither the conquering heroes of Pakistani mythology, nor the devils of Indian mythology. Whereas Irum has misunderstood my assertion, Ferozek hasn`t. His post #1 is the view I hold...

Pakistan is not an ideological state based on some incoherent idea of a poet. It was a product of history, brought about by a series of events, which were political in nature and were the result of the discord between the two leading parties Congress and the Muslim League... Like Azad points out in his book, there were many opportunities for the Congress to end the feud .. and for all practical purposes, Muslim League would have become a wing and an extension of the Congress Party. Those who continue to criticize me for `delving unduly in the past` fail to realize that a lot of Pakistan`s problems today are the result of an `imagined ideology` which has been allowed to continue unchecked by those who have been unwilling to set the historical record straight.

This reasoning has never been understood for some reason... it is the mullahs of Pakistan who claim to no end that `Pakistan was founded in the name of Islam, hence we will make it an intolerant bigoted taliban-like state`.... delving into history then is no longer some futile exercise... but the determinant of our future... We the Pakistanis have to live in this nationstate of ours after all... how can we let Mullahs dominate the discourse on history of our land? just because temporal thinks it is `delving unduly`?

No offence temporal... but this is what I feel.

-YLH

Yasser:

...my comments were more on the trend than on this attempt:)...no offence taken...

...who am i to interrupt a chowk bash or free-for-all?...carry on soldier...am outta here!;)

...t

Mantolives and others:

I just returned from lunch. During the lunch I watched Richard Haass interview with the Public TV. He stated that Pakistan with population larger than Russia, significant number of nuclear weapons, and running internal and external conflicts is the hottest flashpoint in the world. The Administration (US) considers that as its number one priority to deter Pakistan from exploding into a world problem. According to him Pakistan needs to train people in other than terrorism.

So much for world estimation of Pakistan, Jinnah`s legacy or otherwise. For your article, Mantolives, you need to propound the situation on positive reconciliation. Academic discussion is not relevant for the Chowkis to think about the improvement of the situation. Do not get me wrong I have not abandoned my estimation in #5 but NHK, temporal and others are saying what I said in #5 that in order for an academic discussion to be useful and interesting it should have a practical aim.

Needless to say I am against the talk of any ban on any subject as long as the reason is free to participate in it and limits of decency are maintained.

Mantolives:

Excellent work. Outside the box. Way to go.

I agree, in sports a backswing is necessary for a good shot, same with humans, a positive, clear understanding of the past is necessary for any worthwhile attempt at a future. Reframe, Re-View and Recast the past so that it can help you carve a path out of the vicious cylce. That`s called learning from history and is also the process of creating knowledge.

Something to add to your reasoning: in my humble opinion, the history of inequality between the various religio-communities of India are behind the tragic fear and suspicion today and which drove politics to the need for seperation. If we are able to understand why we fight, we might be able to end it. I think that the way society was structured 200 years ago, led to a lot of suppressed suspicion between communities. Today, we reap the fruit of inequality and powerlessness in some versus the colossal power of others: the fruit is hatred. And yes we need to put it out there, talk about it, be courageous and bold about it and condemn it for what it did to all of us. And move on to a better future where we teach tolerance and respect for all to our children. Perhaps the greatest practical invention of the white man :)....after the pen?

regards
S