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Shalom or Salaam

Farzana Versey September 8, 2003

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#125 Posted by anuradha on September 9, 2003 9:08:19 pm
#95 by FarzanaVersey

``Does showing concern for others come in the way of solving our own problems? ``

During the time the US was attacking Afghanistan in retaliation for Sept 11, Muslim mobs went on the rampage in our City Market area; smashed buses, threw stones, torched public property... all to protest the US attack! They injured scores of innocent people and caused crores of rupees worth public damage. I cannot tell you how infuriated the other (majority) community was over this.

Ours is a city in South India. What have we to do with either the US or Afghanistan?
Hurting your own countrymen, and causing heavy loss to your own city - for what? To express solidarity with unknown people of some unseen country! The Muslims lost a lot of goodwill that day.

And that`s just one example, Farzana, of how showing needless concern for others who do not in the least concern themselves about us, comes in the way of solving our own problems.

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#124 Posted by Navida on September 9, 2003 9:08:19 pm
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#123 Posted by veeresh on September 9, 2003 7:56:59 pm
This may sound strange to some, but is a simple fact:- the people of India, the man on the street, have welcomed over the past decade with similar enthusiasm a variety of leaders . . . Bill Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, Pervez Musharaf, Ariel Sharon, Jigme Wanchuk, Sultan of Brunei, President of Iran, President of China, assorted Arab leaders, Swiss President, Russian Dadas, Central Asian lords, Afghan leaders of a variety of hues, the works . . . many more . . . Bill Gates as well as the champion of open source whatsisname . . . so why deny them? Who are we to impose our leftist / rightist ``morals``?

I think the basic elemental human mind recognises and appreciates the talents (as well as intelligence & muscle) of the survivor, the scrapper. After an initial period of trying to prove to himself/herself that s/he has a more succesful product/model, s/he then falls in line with whatever is prevailing, usually in less than a generation.

So, Sharon or Musharaf, if we choose to compare, who symbolises more prosperity, better prospects?

Let me put it this way:- when the Israelies offered help in improving sugarcane and citrus fruit output per acre by multiples, and ``used`` a fairly well known Indian MNC for providing cover as well as for lifting the products, in a fertile but otherwise backward district of Western U.P. a few hours from Delhi, then with a bit of smart moves courtesy the help of ex-servicemen, there was absolutely no resistance from the local mullahs/pandits. And this is an area best known as ``Deobandi``.

So we can hang on to the vestiges of our collective though varied leftist/rightist anti-Israel angst. Meanwhile, the rest of the country moves ahead.

As for the guns, Farzana, they are needed and they are a fact of life. Petrograd taught me that a few decades ago.
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#122 Posted by anuradha on September 9, 2003 7:41:37 pm
Navida # 120,118,117 and esp 114 ...

Please learn some basic spelling/grammar before you post here...

(no offence; just a humble request... I`m sure most of us are unable to make head or tail of your posts as they stand at present... what pearls of wisdom are being lost to us, alas)





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#121 Posted by cipram on September 9, 2003 7:41:37 pm
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#120 Posted by sigalph235 on September 9, 2003 6:48:59 pm
re 111

The same UN where Syria sits on the Security Council, Libyan on the Human Rights Commission, and Iran on the Committee for Nuclear Non-Prolifearation. The same UN that helped Serbians cleanse Bosnia of ROman Catholics and Muslims. The same UN that wouldn`t do a thing when Iran took 52 diplomats hostage contravening the most ancient custom of diplomatic sanctity. The same UN that didn`t lift a finger as 3 million Bengalis were slaughtered by the same army that helped slaughter thousands of Palestinians a year before. The same UN where totalitarians like the USSR and China wielded veto power and Sao Tome/Principe`s ten thousand souls have the same one vote as India`s billion.

You`ll have to excuse me for assuring you that when it comes to matters of geo-politics (as opposed to humanitarian and social services), most realists don`t give a ``rodent`s rear`` to the UN. Had Israel paid attention to the reams of paper emanating from New York, she would have ceased to exist decades ago. No, thank you but Israel will defend itself herself than leave it to the goodwill of the bantu kingdoms that populate the General Assembly and the anti-Semitic Communists who have veto in the Sec Coun. The message of the Holocaust was clear: Never again. As every graduating class of the IDF takes the solemn oath at the historic rocky fortress ``Masada will never fall again``.
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#119 Posted by Navida on September 9, 2003 6:48:59 pm
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#118 Posted by Navida on September 9, 2003 6:48:58 pm
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#117 Posted by Navida on September 9, 2003 6:48:58 pm
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#116 Posted by Navida on September 9, 2003 6:47:09 pm
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#115 Posted by Navida on September 9, 2003 6:47:09 pm
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#114 Posted by ahmedmadani on September 9, 2003 6:47:09 pm
Reference# Naqshbandi various postings.
Thanks very much for your references as always heard these things I read myself and satisfied you are to the mark.
Does Koran and earlier writings refer to ongoing war between kufr hindus and pak pakistanis what is predicted by earlier religious writings in Arabian language. This is more important as Isralies and PLO have no interest in our struggle. I wonder are these struggles will be combined under Ummah or its left to each nation to fight separately. What is general thrust of old writings. Is pakistans emergence and B.Desh , India are referred by earlier scholars. I wonder if we will have heavenly support and material supports from our brothers or just verbal support.
I note only two nations are similar Israel and Pakistani as both are created for the religion.
I agree israel can not take chance as one defeat it will be history.Arab billions can take hundred defeats and survive.
Do you think we in pakistan we are facing similar situation. India can take defeats and survive but if we suffer one defeat it will lead to disintegration. Indians will start just like bangladesh , Sindhu desh and what not.
Do you think all Ummah is wasting too much energy on little Palestine compared to great struggle our nation Pakistan is leading against infidel India for same time.
Do you thinks its time to finish india now or wait till PLO has won.
Are we ready for ultimate war as you come here down on earth in pakistan ,people have lost spirit. Our gas pipelines are not protected. Indians can shoot at gas compressor units and whole gas pipe will be in operable. Harbour of Karachi is not well protected. Sindh sea coast is all holed by smugglers. Do you except some Suprman is going to come down to lead masses against final battle against hindus. I am clear divine intervention is going destroy Israel. Is there any thing in old writing about liberation of India by Pakistan ?
Just came to mind. We need some thing like that. General who came down from sky has lost glory. Wonder what is in store for Pakistan and Pakistanies.
I will like what is given in our religious books what mortals is not important .
with best wishes
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#113 Posted by anuradha on September 9, 2003 6:47:09 pm
#95 by FarzanaVersey

``But I will not accept any arrogance in the sentiment that Indian Muslims should improve their own lot first. This ought to apply to every community, except perhaps the Parsis.``

yeah, only difference being the other communities aren`t wasting time weeping over alien lost causes...
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#112 Posted by dost_mittar on September 9, 2003 3:55:38 pm
Pakfin:
``Now this one is uncalled for and is factually incorrect.``
Sorry for that exaggeration of facts!
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#111 Posted by asfand on September 9, 2003 3:40:19 pm
A list of UN Resolutions against ``Israel``



The only country that has a long list of resolutions against it and yet it defies them all without a shame.



a.. 1955-1992:

b.. * Resolution 106: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for Gaza raid & Killing civilians``.



c.. * Resolution 111: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people``.



d.. * Resolution 127: `` . . . `recommends` Israel suspends it`s `no-man`s zone` in Jerusalem``.



e.. * Resolution 162: `` . . . `urges` Israel to comply with UN decisions``.



f.. * Resolution 171: `` . . . determines flagrant violations` by Israel in its attack on Syria``.



g.. * Resolution 228: `` . . . `censures` Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control``.



h.. * Resolution 237: `` . . . `urges` Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees``.



i.. * Resolution 248: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan``.



j.. * Resolution 250: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Occupied Jerusalem``.



k.. * Resolution 251: `` . . . `deeply deplores` Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250``.



l.. * Resolution 252: `` . . . `declares invalid` Israel`s acts to unify Jerusalem as Zionst capital``.



m.. * Resolution 256: `` . . . `condemns` Israeli terror attacks on Jordan as `flagrant violation``.



n.. * Resolution 259: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s refusal to accept UN mission to probe illegal occupation``.



o.. * Resolution 262: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for terror attack on Beirut airport``.

p.. * Resolution 265: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for air terror attacks for Salt in Jordan``.



q.. * Resolution 267: `` . . . `censures` Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem``.



r.. *Resolution 270: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for air terror attacks on villages in southern Lebanon``.



s.. * Resolution 271: `` . . . `condemns` Israel`s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem``.



t.. * Resolution 279: `` . . . `demands` withdrawal of Israeli terror forces from Lebanon``.



u.. * Resolution 280: `` . . . `condemns` Israeli`s terror attacks against Lebanon``.



v.. * Resolution 285: `` . . . `demands` immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon``.



w.. * Resolution 298: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s changing of the status of Jerusalem``.



x.. * Resolution 313: `` . . . `demands` that Israel stop terror attacks against Lebanon``.



y.. * Resolution 316: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for repeated terror attacks on Lebanon``.



z.. * Resolution 317: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s refusal to release Arabs kidnapped in Lebanon``.



aa.. * Resolution 332: `` . . . `condemns` Israel`s repeated terror attacks against Lebanon``.



ab.. * Resolution 337: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for violating Lebanon`s sovereignty``.



ac.. * Resolution 347: `` . . . `condemns` Israeli terror attacks on Lebanon``.

ad.. * Resolution 425: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to withdraw its terror forces from Lebanon``.



ae.. * Resolution 427: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.



af.. * Resolution 444: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces``.



ag.. * Resolution 446: `` . . . `determines` that Israeli settlements are a `serious



ah.. obstruction` to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention``.



ai.. * Resolution 450: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to stop terrorizing Lebanon``.



aj.. * Resolution 452: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to cease building illegal settlements in occupied territories``.



ak.. * Resolution 465: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s illegal settlements and asks all member



al.. states not to assist Israel`s settlements program``.



am.. * Resolution 467: `` . . . `strongly deplores` Israel`s military intervention in Lebanon``.



an.. * Resolution 468: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of



ao.. two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return``.



ap.. * Resolution 469: `` . . . `strongly deplores` Israel`s failure to observe the



aq.. council`s order not to deport palestinians``.



ar.. * Resolution 471: `` . . . `expresses deep concern` at Israel`s failure to abide



as.. by the Fourth Geneva Convention``.



at.. * Resolution 476: `` . . . `reiterates` that Israel`s claim to Jerusalem are `null and void```.



au.. * Resolution 478: `` . . . `censures (Israel) in the strongest terms` for its



av.. claim to Jerusalem in its `Basic Law```.



aw.. * Resolution 484: `` . . . `declares it imperative` that Israel re-admit two deported



ax.. Palestinian mayors``.



ay.. * Resolution 487: `` . . . `strongly condemns` Israel for its terror attack on Iraq`s



az.. nuclear facility``.



ba.. * Resolution 497: `` . . . `decides` that Israel`s annexation of Syria`s Golan



bb.. Heights is `null and void` and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith``.



bc.. * Resolution 498: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon``.



bd.. * Resolution 501: `` . . . `calls` on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops``.



be.. * Resolution 509: `` . . . `demands` that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon``.



bf.. * Resolution 515: `` . . . `demands` that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and



bg.. allow food supplies to be brought in``.



bh.. * Resolution 517: `` . . . `censures` Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions



bi.. and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon``.



bj.. * Resolution 518: `` . . . `demands` that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon``.



bk.. * Resolution 520: `` . . . `condemns` Israel`s terror attack into West Beirut``.



bl.. * Resolution 573: `` . . . `condemns` Israel `vigorously` for bombing Tunisia



bm.. in attack on PLO headquarters.



bn.. * Resolution 587: `` . . . `takes note` of previous calls on Israel to withdraw



bo.. its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw``.



bp.. * Resolution 592: `` . . . `strongly deplores` the killing of

Palestinian students



bq.. at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops``.



br.. * Resolution 605: `` . . . `strongly deplores` Israel`s policies and practices



bs.. denying the human rights of Palestinians.



bt.. * Resolution 607: `` . . . `calls` on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly



bu.. requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.



bv.. * Resolution 608: `` . . . `deeply regrets` that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians``.



bw.. * Resolution 636: `` . . . `deeply regrets` Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.



bx.. * Resolution 641: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s continuing deportation of Palestinians.



by.. * Resolution 672: `` . . . `condemns` Israel for terror violence against Palestinians



bz.. at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.



ca.. * Resolution 673: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s refusal to cooperate with the United



cb.. Nations.



cc.. * Resolution 681: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s resumption of the deportation of



cd.. Palestinians.



ce.. * Resolution 694: `` . . . `deplores` Israel`s deportation of Palestinians and



cf.. calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.



cg.. * Resolution 726: `` . . . `strongly condemns` Israel`s deportation of Palestinians.



ch.. * Resolution 799: ``. . . `strongly condemns` Israel`s deportation of 413 Palestinians



ci.. and calls for there immediate return.

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#110 Posted by sigalph235 on September 9, 2003 2:33:28 pm
re 104

Wasn`t his name Mard-e-Momin Mard-e-HAq, Ziaul Haque?
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