Shalom or Salaam

P.S.
In addition to non-bhangis, I should have also added hindu haris who are also under no pressure to leave or convert as long as they keep supplying their daughters and sisters to their vaderas on demand.

dionysus:
I have yet to meet a hindu or sikh who says that he voluntary left Pakistan because he loved India. They did so because the alternative was death or reading the kalima. The last time I checked, there are millions of Mohajirs who are proud that they went to the new promised land for which they had fought. These Mohajirs are no different from the jews of Europe and the U.S who went to their promised land. Almost all the hindus and sikhs and mainly Panjabi Muslims are like the Palestinians (and the jews from Arab countries) who were kicked out of their homes.
And the last time I checked, the percentage of Muslims in India was greater than at the time of the partition. What about the percentage of the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan? Unlike Pakistan where non-bhangi Hindus are under constant pressure to convert or leave, there are not any instances of Muslims who have felt any pressure to convert or leave. At worst, they are being asked by an expanding lunatic fringe to give up their separae identity. Yes, the Hindu and Sikh leaders did demand the partition of Panjab if India was to be partitioned. Any guess as to what the percentage of Hindus and Sikhs in an undivided Panjab in Pakistan would have been if all of it had remained in Pakistan?

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re dionysus
``I`ve seen it all now! ``

You ain`t seen nothing yet, bro. Wait until the PLO is crushed, Hamas liquidated, and Islamic Jihad obliterated. And this nonsense of `Palestinian Authority` given a decent burial. Then we can start working on real and lasting peace.

MNIPhirsay #8

Well said!

sighalph $43 ``Glad you asked that. It was your favorite Ottoman Caliphate, the Osmaniya Khilafat, the last true Muslim sultanate(as you say). Happy? ``

Why don`t you just answer the fucking question, moron? What right did Jewish squatters from New York and Manchester have to steal Palestine, to expel most of the native population and to create a racist state that excludes Palestinians on Palestinian land? What right did the British have to assist them in this almighty land grab which to this day is one of the biggest threats to world peace?

A straight answer please. Don`t start regurgitating ZioProp or else I`ll fling straight back in your face.

sigalph #55 ``And I told my Senator last week that he ought to request the Secy of State to move the embassy to Jerusalem (as required by 1996 act), the united, ancient, and eternal capital of Israel. ``

LMAO! A Bangladeshi ZioNazi?????? I`ve seen it all now!

Dear stuka, veeresh and other Punjabi Hindus wallowing in self-pity,

For every Hindu or Sikh expelled from West Punjab a Muslim was expelled from East Punjab. Further, the partition of Punjab was DEMANDED by the Hindus and Sikhs.

Partition of Punjab was your demand and you, therefore, bear primary responsiblity for what followed. So cut it out before you drown in your own puke.

re Nasqshbandi
``The Jews can live their but it must belong to us. (the muslims).``

Man, I don`t know whether to laugh at the comedy of arrogance or the tragedy of ignorance. Reminds me of another old Bengali saying `gaachhey kathal, gofey tel` which roughly translates into licking your lips while the fruit is far above your reach.

As several times before, I`ll remind you of that great Prime Minister of Pakistan, Hazrat Maulana Husain Shaheed Suhrawardy, rahmatullah alaihi and actual descendant of the founder of the Suhrawardiya: Israel has come to stay.

And just to make you a little more troubled, may I add that I feel privileged that part of my taxes go to defend innocent Israelis against terrorists of the secular and fundamentalist kind. And I told my Senator last week that he ought to request the Secy of State to move the embassy to Jerusalem (as required by 1996 act), the united, ancient, and eternal capital of Israel.

If some Indians choose to protest against the trip - its well within their rights to do so. But remember every year around 30,000 Israeli tourists visit India so why not welcome another one even the Prime Minister? If the leader/dictator of Pakistan can be invited for talks then why not a leader of a friendly democratic country? There are approximately 45,000 Jews of Indian origin in Israel today, its time to cement those ties.
Shalom Alekhim.

Miss Poison Pen writes, ``But I have spent hours with Palestinian students in India, sitting with them over cups of bitter tea at their hostel canteens, and wondered how they could identity and feel so strongly about a land that they had never seen, whose history was wiped out by the razing of 480 villages. From Jordan and Lebanon, where most of their families live, how could they aspire for freedom and peace?``

How about the Sindhis in India? Do they have a place they can call home? Can they visit the land of their forefathers?

While you are shedding copious tears for the Palestinians -- whom you had not mett till late in your life -- you seem to have no sympathy for the Sindhis in your backyard in Bombay.

But then the Sindhis were expelled by Islamist thugs so it is all right! Only Muslims have a monopoly on suffering.

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This is the first article where I have noticed more than several postings from Temporal. This is not the norm. Remarkable, I must say!
Anyway, nice to hear from you, no matter when and where. All credit to Farzana for writing a wonderful article.

Farzana, As a soveriegn nation India has a right to invite anyone, even if it is a known terrorist. I understand your concern as a Muslim in India and I think you have done well to express it here. However, if I stand aside and look at how this world is shaping up, I would assume that it is probably in India`s immediate interest to welcome Israeli attention and vice versa. I don`t suspect Indian policy makers and Hindu fundamentalists are making fists and banging their tables, saying, ``Yeah, this will teach Pakistan``

Israel is a powerful albeit a small nation with amazing reach and potential on the international scene. The fact that it is oppressing an entire nation is not something that India or any other country can concern itself with. Maybe as a matter of priciple but certainly not as a matter of realpolitik. As a Pakistani, I do have concerns but I must say that India is not banking on Israel`s help to continue its aggressive policies towards Pakistan, some of which definitely have good reciprocal basis in the aggressive and childish policies of Pakistan Army. I don`t think India needs Israel so much as it needs the US for its interests. Everything that Israel can sell to India will need US` stamp of approval anyway.

One more point that I must agree with here is that Palestinian cause is more Arab than Islamic. Arab nationalism was all the rage when the Palestinian issue gained momentum. So, when the wars fought for Arab pride (`48, `67) were lost on the battlefield or arguably even before the battle had begun, and consequently Arab nationalism lost its momentum, Islam made its appearance to some extent but it is still mainly about land and not some idealogy.

Anyway, I must say that Muslim Majority states are in a state of despair and If I hadn`t used the word state so many times I would have used it again to describe their horrid state of internal affairs, oops, there I go again. I should probably wait for a few more weeks or months before commenting further on this st&*(^% (can`t stay away from that word, ofcoarse being a Pakistani has its downsides :-) who knows Pakistan might end up accepting Israel and we may be saying Shalom soon to the killers of unarmed, starved Palestenian refugees and guys who have spent their lives breaking Arab skulls for a living.

Dear Farzana:

Neither the borders are going to contain alliances, nor the religions are not going to form friendships. In the past, religions could not be contained within borders, also border could not contain religions. In my view, Islam could not have spread otherwise.

Myopic view of extreme islamists forget that the golden age of Islam in Spain also saw the best cooperation between Jews and Muslims. Only if you had researched and wrote on the co-existence of these two religions to create prosperity. It is quite easy to write about antagonist views about Israel and Palestinians, but more important is to write a testament of their cooperation.

President DeGaulle rightly said ``People have friends, and nations have interests``. Indian, the U.S. and Israeli interests converge not because of anti-muslim, but because of market forces that are sending jobs to India from the U.S. as we speak, and because of the demand for technology, skills, market and capital.

From the dawn civilization, immigrations, forced or unforced, have displaced some and rehabilitated others. Whatever, happened in North America during American-Indian wars. Unfortunate may be, but a reality certainly. Sooner the Palestinians accept a peaceful co-existence with Israel, the better it would be for all. I am sure the tea you would wold not be bitter either. Together, the Arabian wealth, Israeli talent and capital are capable of producing a second golden age for Islam. Also, only then Arab wealth would not be locked in the hands of the few, Saud family included, but would be distributed in Arab hands. Jihadist are not going to produce the second golden age of Islam, they will only deliver more bombed out Afganistan and Iraq. The world will willingly help them. Please don`t complain about the U.S., the U.K., Musharraff and Pakistan were very willing ally and amplify my point.

ANIL

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Stuka hits the nail on the head as far as I`m concerned. As Indians we should be concerned first and foremost with Indian interests. If the Palestinians are suffering that`s very sad, but what precisely does it have to do with us?? Don`t we have enough misery in our part of the world that we should go looking in the Middle East for something to cry over??

Even Pakistanis (going by the recent discussions on another board) are asking themselves whether it`s sensible of them to be more Islamic than the Arabs, and whether they shouldn`t recognise Israel for their own benefit. Now should India be more Islamic than Pakistan??

Indian Muslims would do well to try and improve their own lot before they get so agitated over what`s happening in alien nations.

Glad to find this board so far free from the usual anti and pro FV hysteria. One could hardly see the article for the heat and dust on earlier boards.

`(Never mind Brajesh Mishra’s silly pronouncement, “The US, India and Israel have to jointly face the same ugly face of modern day terrorism”.)`

It might help if you explain what`s so silly about the pronouncement, Farzana? Sneering is no substitute for criticism.