Shalom or Salaam

nasah bhaijaan:
Glad to be on the same page with you again - almost.
It seems to me that Islamists are already in control of the Palestinian struggle and the secular elements have taken a back seat.
...Agreed about Hanan Ashrawi, but when was the last time you saw her face on the TV, or that of Clovis Maksoud, the indefatiguable secretary of the Arab League, former ambassador to India and a champion of Palestinians?
I agree re. Israelis. Shimon Peres is the closest one - he and Ashrawi could probably work things out, if given a chance.
[BTW your non-comment on my Indian secularism artilce politely tells me that you do not approve my analysis!]

merey bhai dost-mittar sahib -- I know -- I have great respect and admiration for MJ Akbar he is one the most level headed responsible civilized columnists -- my allusion to him was purely rhetorical.

I agree with you squarely about Palestinian leadership -- Arafat is the father of the Palestinian nation albeit still an immature one -- with Clinton and Ehud Barak peace was almost at hand -- but he messed it up -- as if he was afraid of being imprisoned by Peace --
now he is as much a prisoner of the Israeli Extreme Right as he is of the Islamist Extreme right --

if anything -- one would like to accuse him of allowing the Islamists extremists erode the secular tenets of Palestinian struggle .....

but I don`t think that the Islamist will ever be able to take over Palestinian struggle -- its character will remain secular -- because of its mixed (Christian and Muslim) nature --

for me the best candidate for the prime minister ship of Palestine is a Palestinian woman -- one of the most rational and articulate member of Arafat inner circle -- Hannan Ashrawi -- if only she stops smoking like Palestinian men......

A Palestinian Gandhi …… a Palestinian Mandela………..well ……if only there was an Israeli Prime minister named ……Einstein.....:-)

Nasah#281
Bhaijaan, you are a bit unfair to MJ Akbar. Not siding with one side does not always means not choosing between good and evil. I am sure Akbar would see the irony of the victims of the Nazi butchery burning homes and firing with tanks on little kids.
But Palestinian leadership, in condoning suicide bombers, is also not being very helpful. To me, Israel is one issue where justice is not feasible. True justice would mean Palestinians` right to return to the current state of Israel. This would mean that Israel would eventually turn into an Arab majority state. When that happens, and if it is still a democracy, what are the chances that the majority will not declare it to be an Islamic state? I have met very few Arabs who believe that jews have any right to live in Israel. At best, they might be willing to make a Hudbaiya like temporary settlement.
In my pesonal, and perhaps biased, opinion, Palestinians would get a lot more support if they adopt the methods of Gandhi or Mandela instead of keep fighting using the `j` word. [If you have noticed, you now hear less from secular militant groups, such as those headed by the old war-horse George Habash]

Farzana 276,
When I talk of homeland here, I mean a concept which in Bengali is `bari`, the permanent home, and Kashmiri Hindus have lost theirs, maybe forever. I can`t add to what Maharana and Harimau have said, so I won`t-how is it that the Jordanians aren`t expected to house the Palestinians and the later want their own homes back? And I understand why they do.
About the violence,good to be reminded you`re a peacenik....surprise every time:) But you did expect the Pandits to stay in Kashmir despite the violence and implied they were cowards because they could not and did not fight -that`s why I suggested you only take people seriously if they are willing to be violent.
Harimau, we don`t know that Farzana isn`t sponsoring someone. Apparently,Sachin Tendulkar has sponsored 200 kids for some years now and only spoke about it recently(I think he was a bit aggrieved at all the attention Waugh gets.;)) I don`t tell everyone what I do by way of charity. How do we know what she does?

``MJ Akbar who are much admired for their balanced approach``(DOST-MITTAR)

merey aziz bhai dost-mittar saheb -- ub aap hee bataaiye ke -- between the oven operator SS guards of Auschwitz and the charred bodies of their Jewish victims -- HOW our much admired `non committed` MJ Akber saheb will come up with his `balanced` approach?

-- that the charred Jews were also partly to be blamed as to why they brought themselves to a situation that they had to be gassed and cremated alive?......

-- or to achieve `journalistic balance` and `fair play` for BOTH sides -- should the VICTIM Jews be criticized for not using the suicide bombing against the Nazis in place of dying in droves without a whimper?.....

if I may be excused for saying this -- when the lines between EVIL and GOOD are drawn so clearly -- we need Bidwais not MJ Akbers....

between the Sharonite Nazis with their missiles, F16`s, Tanks and Helicopters poised and used against the defenseless Palestinian children -- the LINES between EVIL and GOOD are drawn as clearly as they were between armed to the teeth German Nazis with their Panzer Division Blitzkrieg -- and the poor defenseless European Jews being rounded all over occupied Europe for deportation to the gas chamber

may be MJ Akber Sahib would disagree with Palestinians for not emulating the European Jews on the way to the oven --

why ARE they fighting back?

for the sake of journalistic balance......

Ref Miss Poison Pen #276

[The Kashmiri Pandits have had to leave their homes/were driven out, but they do have a `homeland`: India.]

But somehow, the Palestinians who were driven out do not have a homeland in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, the UAE or Saudi Arabia. They alone have the right of return to Palestine.

I suppose you would say -- Iactually gave you the opportunity but you chose not to take it -- that the Hindu Sindhis who were driven out have a homeland in India and that the Biharis stranded in Bangladesh have a ``homeland`` in Bangladesh or perhaps Bihar.

I admire your generosity toward your co-religionists. Or should I say your fellow-travellers in criminal enterprise?

[As for the `violence` in your post, you are talking to a peacenik :) ]

As someone put it, ``Islam is a religion of peace. If you don`t believe in it, you will rest in peace.``

People like you bring shame to honorable men like nasah.

Instead of ranting and raving on Chowk, perhaps you can sponsor a single Muslim`s education in a trade such as welding, machining, carpentry or machining or even driving, a trade that is in demand in the Middle East so that you can raise that poor family out of destitution. But ``no, that is the responsibility of the Indian government and they are discriminating against the Indian Muslims`` is your constant refrain. By the same token, the Indian government is discriminating against every single person who is poor. If the middle class in India has increased that is because they applied themselves to education, got a skill that is needed and packed out of their hometowns, be it to Bombay or Bahrain. You could spread awareness of the need for adapting to the world. Instead, the only role model you yourself offer is that of a rabble-rouser.

People like you make me puke.

Farzana # 276,

``The Kashmiri Pandits have had to leave their homes/were driven out, but they do have a `homeland`: India.``

So do the Kashmiri muslims :India. So why fight?

Adios

#274 by scott

Aajkal male aur females ka equality ka zamaana hai :)

Nasah bhaijaan#264
I agree with almost everything PB said. The problem is not with the message but the messanger. I do not recall any article by Bidwai devoted to a condemnation of Palestinian suicide bombers. Praful has marginalised himself in India by his one-sided commentaries. Once a commentator establishes a reputation as a committed ideologue, whether he is a neocon or a leftist, one`s opinions have minimal impact on the non-committed and keep converting only the already converted. Contrast that with commentators like MJ Akbar who are much admired for their balanced approach, so when they criticise, people sit up and listen.

nb (#272):
The Kashmiri Pandits have had to leave their homes/were driven out, but they do have a `homeland`: India. As for the `violence` in your post, you are talking to a peacenik :)

Ref Faruk #273

India would like transit rights for shipping freight through the Bangladesh road and rail network to Manipur, Tripura, Nagaland, Mizoram, etc. India doesn`t have that right today and all traffic from places like Calcutta have to go north and across the narrow neck between Bhutan and Bangladesh to get to the far eastern states.

Re : sigalph235 #271
India has a limited transit facility through Bangladesh under the provisions of the India-Bangladesh Inland Water Transit and Trade Protocol which has been in operation since 1972. What I think you are talking about is urestricted transit. That `s a treaty India & Bangladesh have not been able to work out yet.

Faruk

Baap ray male interactors to gali deytay thay yeh female interactor bhi stalk karnay lagi!

Farzana,there are many differences between the plight of Kashmiri Hindus and that of the Palestinians, but they do share in common an inability to live in their homeland. Why do you feel so differently about these two groups? I feel sorry for both of them, but I guess the Pandits aren`t going to be taken seriously until they start suicide bombing places where supporters of the militants hang out, or,shock!horror! take their campaign to Islamabad.
265
Excuse me, Rainbow or navida or Tipu or whatever you may wish to be called. Take issue if you wish with the facts that jaym put forward, but what makes you think people have not heard of Charu Majumdar or Mahashweta Devi?

re 261

India has never granted transshipment to Bangladesh in spite of ad nauseum free trade rhetoric of Yashwant Sinha. The reason is that both Bhutan and Nepal have wanted to use Bangladesh seaports and that obviously threatens India`s stranglehold on the trade with these landlocked countries. Of course, given this situation, Bangladesh has not given the same to India until New Delhi reciprocates.

re:#261 by Faruk
Thanks for the info.
Sridhar