Shalom or Salaam

#142 by nasah

Okay, if you say so I will :)

``well of course that was the Nehru era of world vision idealism and third world community spirit and camaraderie ``


HAHAHAHA!! Yes. That included standing up for the Poles, Czechs, East Germans, Hungarians, Afghans etc when they were crushed under Soviet Tanks. NOT!!!!

That included condemning Arab countries for their surprise attacks in 1948! NOT!

That included condemning China for occupying Tibet and doing to them exactly what the Israelis do to Palestenians today? NO, IT DID NOT.

So, please, spare us Nehru`s vision. Our country saw its consequences when his daughter became PM.

#142 by nasah

``there was a time for India when the ``needless concerns`` about others made us the leader of the third world -- well of course that was the Nehru era of world vision idealism and third world community spirit and camaraderie``

That was the time, wasn`t it, when we were the buffoon leaders of a joke organisation

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`the Non Aligned Movement`

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self righteous conscience keepers of the world :)

ahmadzai:
Given some of my posts, it may seem strange to you but the fact is that I am the least bit concerned about the minorities in Pakistan, that should be a concern of Pakistanis (and some Pakistani human rights activists do their bit in this regard) and international human rights agencies. I only lose my cool when some Pakistanis start to complain about the treatment of minorities in India; not that the Indians provide a shining example in this regard.

dionysis:
``More to the point, what is the percentage of Muslims in East Punjab?``
Actually, many times more than that of Hindus and Siks in West Panja. There is at least one constituency where Muslims are in a majority. And there are several popular Muslim Panjabi singers, some of them regularly come to Canada. More importantly, Muslims from other parts of India have started to come to Panjab, both on postings and as workers from the poorer states of UP and Bihar.

And all this about the new East Panjab. If you include Himachal Pradesh and Haryana which were part of the old Panjab, there are areas, such as Mewat which still have a majority of Muslims.

Dionysus: Yeah, thanks for the lesson in ``Ideology of Pakistan`` , probably the only subject you scored an A in.

You divided a ``fiction`` while we divided a nation? HAHA...You lot certainly have a unique perspective on history. So, Ii guess we divided a fiction in 1971 as well? HAHA!!

Israeli Professor: “150,000 Palestinians victims of Israel’s ‘Quiet Transfer’ policy”



Breifing on Occupation
Israeli Professor: “150,000 Palestinians victims of Israel’s ‘Quiet Transfer’ policy”

WASHINGTON, DC -- Speaking at a briefing on Capitol Hill yesterday, Israeli Professor Jeff Halper, coordinator of the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions (www.icahd.com) and co-founder of the Global Campaign to Rebuild Palestinian Homes, took issue with the basic premise of current US policy on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict which assumes that Israel is willing to return the Occupied Territories as part of future negotiations. The briefing was sponsored by the American Committee on Jerusalem (ACJ), the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), the Government Affairs affiliate of the American-Arab Anti- Discrimination Committee (NAAA-ADC), and Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel (JPPI).

Pointing out the contradiction between the temporary nature of occupation in international law and the 400,000 Israeli settlers living in over 200 settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, Professor Halper maintained that current Israeli policy revolves around the setting up of a reduced Palestinian state comprising Gaza and 4 unlinked and discontiguous cantons on a small part of the West Bank. “The total destruction wreaked on Palestinian civil society and institutions in the past months in the West Bank and the continuing relentless pace of settlement is part of this plan to preempt any possibility of a viable Palestinian state on West Bank land,” Halper explained. He continued, “ Israel realizes world public opinion will not allow a violent transfer of Palestinians out of their land, so a ‘quiet transfer’ is taking place where Palestinians leave out of despair with the unbearable daily living conditions Israel has created.” 150,000 Palestinians have left their land in this fashion in the past two years.

Professor Halper explained that the Global Campaign to Rebuild Palestinian Homes is an example of joint Israeli-Palestinian efforts to oppose Israel’s occupation and its manifestations, among which are the demolition of Palestinian homes. Over 9,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished since the beginning of the 1967 Occupation, rendering tens of thousands homeless, with 98% of these demolitions not being security or terrorism-related. The non-violent Global Campaign to Rebuild Palestinian Homes involves the rebuilding of Palestinian homes and is supported financially by thousands of people worldwide.

The briefing was attended by Congressional aides, diplomats, and leaders of NGO organizations and religious groups. Extensive media coverage included the filming of the briefing by CNN

Something to be aware of:

The biggest benefits of India-Israeli cooperation: Also. Pakistanis should realize that India`s ambition is not to counter Pakistan. It os to counter China. Therefore, regardless of there being peace between India and Pakistan, we still have to exponentially grow our military capabilities to match China or a possible combined attack by Pakistan and China.

Israel puts India beyond Pak reach
Mubashir Zaidi
Islamabad, September 10

Pakistani officials say Islamabad cannot hope to match the conventional military capability that the combination of India and Israel meets. A highly-placed government source said New Delhi`s military purchases from Tel Aviv indicated a larger vision. ``They are thinking big. India wants to be a world power. Their vision is beyond Pakistan,`` he said.

Islamabad placed its faith in the strategic balance provided in the subcontinent by Pakistan`s nuclear deterrence, said an official. However, this meant Pakistan had reason to fear the Arrow missile -- an anti-missile system that would neutralise part of Pakistan`s nuclear arsenal. ``The real worry is the proposed sale of the Arrow to India by Israel which will seriously affect Pakistani missile capability,`` affirmed retired General Kamal Matanuddin.

Officially, Islamabad said it was ``deeply concerned`` about India`s defence purchases from Israel. Unofficially, Pakistani officials said the resulting quantum leap in military capabilities meant that the purchases were no long Pakistan-specific.

Pakistan`s Foreign Office on Monday reflected this point of view by asking who India was arming itself against. ``They can`t all use all of these against Pakistan alone,`` said the Foreign Office spokesman.

Pakistani military experts said they were unconcerned about the purchase of the Israeli Phalcon early warning aircraft. And even if the Arrow missile system deal was struck today, said General Matanuddin, it would take at least a decade for it to put into place.

But though Islamabad insisted it was no longer in the business of matching India`s conventional weapons capability, government officials admitted Pakistan was in desperate need to modernise its air force and navy.

The Pakistani Air Force is pushing General President Pervez Musharraf to secure at least 50 modern fighter aircraft - either newer versions of the F-16 or the French Mirage. Similarly, the Pakistani Navy has submitted a long list of requirements that it needs to reduce India`s domination of the Arabian Sea.

Pakistani officials admit the US is unlikely to sell any offensive equipment to Pakistan. ``We are hoping that we can get an AWACS (airborne early warning system) from the US as this is defensive in nature,`` said an official.

But Pakistan`s other hope is that it can get the US nod for purchasing F-16s from Belgium. The quid pro quo: The dispatch of Pakistani troops to Iraq. ``Pakistan may announce the sending of troops to Iraq if the US agrees on F-16 sales,`` said a government source.

Musharraf and Prime Minister Jamali are expected to raise the F-16 deal when they President George W. Bush in separate meetings in September and October.

Phalcon early warning system

Allows India to look deep into Pakistan territory. Pakistan warplanes can`t move without being detected

Barak anti-missile system

This will protect Indian Navy ships, including vulnerable aircraft carriers, from Pakistan`s Exocet and Harpoon missiles

Arrow missile defence

If okayed by the US, this will defend India against Pakistan`s main delivery systems–its arsenal of ballistic missiles

Zahida Hina: The reason I am in love with this woman.

http://www.jang.net/editorial/index1.cfm?ed_fullpath=http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/sep2003-daily/10-09-2003/editorial/index.html&top_fullpath=http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/sep2003-daily/10-09-2003/top.htm&cont_fullpath=http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/sep2003-daily/10-09-2003/cont.htm

Israel has just declared war against Hamas. Not the Palestenian Authority but Hamas which is a fundamentalist Islamic group in the league of Laskar E Taiba and Al Qaeda.

I think Israeli ground troops will now move into Hamas supporting areas. India can help by sending KPS Gill as an adviser.

re:#126 by Satire
I tend to disagree with you. I think we need to realise that utterings of bigoted religious leaders like Imam Bukhari are recipe for disaster in a place like India where there is mass illiteracy and people are very religious. Riots have often resulted from misperceptions or misprounouncements of religious leaders. So, let us not blindly copy the western model of secularism. India needs stricter controls.
Even the western model of not mixing religion with politics is followed in breach in India. It is just difficult for Indian political leaders to stay away from religion for long. Much of vote bank politics (Ayodhya is just one eg) is linked to religion.
Sridhar

re:#133 by FarzanaVersey
Farzana Bibi asks:
``Why have the Hindus not protested against the persecution of those Hindus? Is it because BD came into being due to no small measure the contribution of our government, where we promptly labeled the PM ‘Durga’?``
The reason i think is straight forward. Hindus in India do not protest because there is no concept of Ummah among the Hindus as it is among the muslims. Hinduism is a personal religion (though BJP and Parvar would like that to change) and most hindus may sympathise with the plight of hindus in Bangladesh but nothing more can be done as it is an internal matter of Bangladesh. Hindus in India also did not protest against the brutality of Idi Amin against Indians (mostly hindu businessmen) in the 70s, atrocity against hindus in Fiji etc. For the same reason.
Sridhar

re:#124 by anuradha
Welcome to the concept of Ummah. Farzana bibi will have hard time explaining why a muslim mob in South India should go on a rampage for US bombing of Afghanistan. Most muslims in India do not have a sense of nationhood and are caught in this dilemma: nation or Islam? The eg you gave exemplifes that dilemma.
Sridhar

All figures from census of 1991 (available at www.censusindia.net)

http://www.censusindia.net/cendat/datatable23.html

Punjab:

Hindu 34%
Sikh 63%
Muslim 1.2%


Haryana

Hindu 89%
Sikh 5.81%
Muslim 4.64%

Delhi

Hindu 83.67%
Muslim 9.44%
Sikh 4.84%

re:#120 by Navida
All that is history. I mean the stuff you posted. India, under Nehru, was committed to Arab-African cause as India was part of that group which fought against colonists to gain independence and there was much sympathy for the Arab and Palestine cause during the Nehru era. This policy was formulated by Nehru himself and faithfully carried forward by his daughter and grandson. It has taken many decades to realise the futility of this policy.

Much water has flow down the ganges since then. Arabs have oil but little else. Saudi Arabia regularly exports its brand of extreme Wahabism and donates money towards madrassas in Pakistan, where jehadis are trained to fight in Kashmir, among other places. Saudi Arabia, in a way, is harming India`s interests. And when was the last time Indians heard of any Arab supporting India on Kashmir (the only Arab country to support India on this issue was Iraq). OIC regularly moves resolutions to condemn India on Kashmir.

Palestenian cause is a lost cause the moment Palestenians took to violence. There is little sympathy for that cause in India (except perhaps among the muslims). Palestenian youths strapping themselves with bombs and blowing away everyone around them do not inspire any sympathy or awe.
And, for India, being a friend of Israel is the best thing that could have happened. Here is a country which is militarily and economically strong and which has much to offer India. India would be stupid to tie its fate with the losers (the Arab-Palestine block) and not joing Israel to boost up its own security.
Sridhar

Dost-Mittar: Razia Sultana is a member of Assembly from Malerkotla. She won the seat in an open and direct race and not a nominated one. What is interesting about East Punjab demography is that most of the Muslim migrant workers from UP/Bihar/MP are working and settling in rural Punjab while Hindu workers mostly in cities. A relative of mine who had big farm in Jalandhar dist and visiting us in US told me about this. I was totally surprised becasue due to out infinite ignorance and arrogance we usually see a Bhaiya as a Bhaiyahis religion does not matter. another thing my relative pointed out is that most of these Muslim and Hindu Bhaiyas don`t get along very well in Punjab.....meaning they are taking their enemity along with them where ever they go...just like we bring ours to Chowk.

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