Shalom or Salaam

Here is a nice article on Israel

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=31162

Lions of Zion
The problem is not Israel. It is the rest of the neighbourhood
Bibek Maitra



Mani Shankar Aiyar’s rantings (‘‘BJP’s favourite West Asian’’, September 5) usually don’t deserve attention. But given the timing of his article — Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is currently in India — a rebuttal is necessary.

To begin with, Israel was not a gift of western powers to Jews after World War II. Even after the Balfour Declaration of 1919 and the promise of a Jewish homeland, the British were in no mood to leave. It was only when their mandate expired and they were confronted by a war of attrition by Jewish freedom fighting units such as Hagannah, Irgun and Stern that they decided to quit Palestine.

To be part of an organisation fighting colonial powers is no crime. Sharon has every reason to be proud of this past.

The United Nations voted for the creation of Israel and Palestine to live side by side. The Jews accepted the verdict but the Arabs did not. As soon as the UN gave its decision, the neighbouring Arab countries came together to attack Israel. They failed , Israel survived. The remains of the Palestinian state were gobbled up by Jordan.

Next we come to Deir Yassin. This was an Arab village located on an elevation overlooking the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway. During the Arab siege of the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem in 1948, Israeli relief convoys were regularly ambushed. (The remnants of these convoys can still be seen if you drive from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem).

Israeli intelligence got reports that Arab irregulars had infiltrated Deir Yassin to attack the convoys. The Israelis entered the village, a fight ensued and Israeli forces won. To set the record straight, Sharon had no role to play in Deir Yassin.

Then we come to the Quibya massacre. This was a time when Palestinian militants used to slip into Israeli territory at night and attack border villages. The village of Quibya was such a centre for Palestinian mujaheedin and under Jordanian control.

One night, militants entered the Israeli border village of Yahud and killed a woman and her two children. The Israeli army was ordered to take punitive action. The 101 border unit, led by a young officer named Ariel Sharon, entered Quibya village and asked all inhabitants to leave. Nearly 2,700 did so.

Fearing arrest, a few mujahideen and their families hid in cellars. The 101 unit blew up houses so Quibya could no longer be a base for attacks. The fatalities that occurred were of people hiding in the cellars.

Next come Sabra and Shatilla. These massacres of Palestinians were caused by the Maronite Christian falangists militia. They felt Palestinians had upset the demographic equation in Lebanon.

Israel’s fault was this massacre took place when it was in the midst of clearing operations in Lebanon. Sharon’s fault was he was then defence minister. To blame Sharon for this is like blaming Indira Gandhi for the Nellie massacre in Assam, 1983, because she was prime minister and had foisted an election on the state.

We now come to the comparison of Jenin with Gujarat. Jenin was a factory of Hamas terrorists and suicide bombers. Does Aiyar wish to say Gujarat was similar? I can only sympathise when he compares Sharon and Narendra Modi. In his urge to condemn Modi, he has unwittingly given him a larger than life image.

If the BJP-led government takes inspiration from Israel, what’s wrong? Israel has amalgamated people from different backgrounds into one classless, casteless society. Akshenazis (European Jews), Shepardis (Asian Jews), Baghdadis, Bene Israelis from India, Morroccan Jews, Iranian Jews have merged and devoted themselves to their national dream. Does it not offer inspiration? They have made the deserts of Palestine bloom. Their water conservation and ecological awareness is world class. Can this not inspire India?

Aiyar concludes with a reference to the Oslo accord. Israel took a lead in Oslo. It resurrected Yaseer Arafat. It released hundreds of Palestinian terrorists. It allowed exiles to return to the West Bank and Gaza. What did Israel get in return? Intifada.

Aiyar’s real motive is the destruction of Israel by demographic change. On the one hand, he talks of continuing massacres of Palestinians and, on the other, of the growth in Palestinian population and of his desire that it outgrows the Jews in Israel. This is a paradox only he can explain.

The author is a former president of the Indo-Israeli Friendship Society

Re : dost-mittar # 60

“The last time I checked, there are millions of Mohajirs who are proud that they went to the new promised land for which they had fought. These Mohajirs are no different from the jews of Europe and the U.S who went to their promised land.”

Dionysus touched a raw nerve here ah! We view events through the prism of our preconceived notions, prejudices or whatever you want to call it. If you want to know why a lot of Muslims left for Pakistan watch a movie called “garam hawa” it’s a good place to start.

“At worst, they are being asked by an expanding lunatic fringe to give up their separae identity.”

It is interesting how different perspectives are view from the other side of the coin….


Regards,

Faruk

Re : Stuka # 14
“Damn right we are newly privileged and proud of it. Victims of Indian partition were rotting in refugee camps around the same time as Arabs. What we have made with our lives is thanks to our own grit. No sops, no oil, just forward thinking, putting the past behind us and working. And why should we not draw conclusions that hard work and looking ahead pay off?”

No gainsaying the grit and hard work that has made people displaced in the partition. But I think that the Indian govt. of the time and ordinary Indians were very helpful to the displaced peoples from Pakistan. India was not a rich country but I think she did what she could.

Regards,

Faruk

Re : Article
I think we should have only one ideology in supporting a cause “Our Interest” that’s it. I have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinian people, but I don’t want to fight their war for them.

Regards,

Faruk

Dost-mittar at # 60:

Your over-sympathetic and highly emotional posts for Pakistani minorities seem to be a ploy to divert attention from secular and pluralist India`s treatment of its minorities. tell me how is their plight different from a Pakistani Muslim of the same profile, say living in the interior of Sindh Punjab or Balochistan?

Some Indians also cite the migration of Hindu families from Tharparker district into India and living in the refugee camps there as an example of Muslim atrocities on them. This is distortion of facts. Both Hindus and Muslim families have migrated from the drought stricken primarily `Hindu` region due to climatic reasons. That is a region in which Holy is celebrated just like it may be any where in India. I have personally witnessed that and have participated in it.

At the international level too, this `do it youselves and blame others` game is being played with impunity.

1. Israelis are killing Palestinian children and youths at will, but make the world believe as if its the Jewish kids who are dying everyday.

2. Indian army in Kashmir is killing innocent Kashmiris everyday and also shelling Pakistan administered Kashmir killing citizens there, but India makes the world believe that its Pakistani incited ``Cross border terrorism``.

3. The coalition forces are persecuting Pakhtoons in Afghanistan and terming their resentment as incited by Talibans entering Afghanistan from Pakistan.

Dost, you cannot shed tears for others sitting in your own cocoon. Please interact with Palestinians, Kashmiris, Pakistani Hindus and Muslims and Afghan Pakhtoons at personal level to see the truth for yourself, except if you want to shed tears to divert the attention from real problems.

I may be wrong but I understand that we have had Indian Jews in relatively high positions, State Governors (Punjab Governor Jacob) and there was even an Indian Jewish general in the 1971 war (the name skips me right now). Not to mention those oddball theories about the fact that one of the lost tribes of Israel ended up in Mizoram. So there is a fair bit of Jewish presence in India. Furthermore, I don`t have the reference to hand, but I believe that there were several flights from India to Israel as part of the migration into Israel in the late 1940`s. The funny thing is while reading about the protests in Delhi. At one time, Zionism was the darling of the left and now a visceral distaste has arisen. Strange bedfellows indeed. I may well be wrong, but I would be willing to plonk serious amounts of dosh (pick your currency) on the fact that polls will come up with the fact that a majority of Indians would love this Israel Indian relationship.

Just a final comment about Brajesh Mishra. He is the national security advisor, and I would have found it very strange if he had not suggested a tie-up with Israel and USA to fight terror. If he hadn`t, I would have said, fire the incompetent fellow and get someone who can get these things going. I had written something about it in the Hindustan times and the storm of vituperation that descended on me was amazing. Oh! well.

Faruk:

With re to your post, that is true. Also even the Punjabis who went from India to Pakistan did well as well. Zia was actually a Jullunderi, and a middle class one at that.

I resent people trying to make this a religious issue. That bloody fool Naqshabandi, when RSaxena pointed out that India has excellent relations with Iran as well, responds with ``Shias have always stabbed Sunnis in the back``...

That is why I say, if people like this call me communal, damn Ii will wear this as a badge of honor.

Quick Poll to Indians:

If Palestenians were scrweing Jewish Israelis, but were in a position to sell us high quality arms as well as increase trade, how many of you lot would object to dealing with the former?

I speak for myself..I would have no problem.

Beady:


``there was even an Indian Jewish general in the 1971 war (the name skips me right now)``

Yes, it was Lt General JFR Jacob.

stuka:

Here`s a poll for you:

Prior to the American Civil War, most Southern businessmen insisted that slavery was beneficial for the US economy. And, in fact, it was. The unlimited supply of cheap labor made the plantations of the South extremely competitive.

Based on your twisted logic of always putting national interests before one`s conscience, slavery should have never been abolished. After all, it benefited the U.S.

This is not to say that national interests should always take a back seat to morality, but to speak up against what one perceives as unjust or immoral (whether wrong or right), takes a lot of courage. I do not agree with Farzana`s basic premise regarding Sharon`s visit, but I admire her temerity.

Faruk:
``Dionysus touched a raw nerve here ah! We view events through the prism of our preconceived notions, prejudices or whatever you want to call it. If you want to know why a lot of Muslims left for Pakistan watch a movie called “garam hawa” it’s a good place to start``

I never said or implied that all Muslims of India wanted a new country (many did not!) or that all of them left India voluntarily. Garam Hawa was a great film. And quite realistic, too. If I remember correctly, it showed how one brother left for the Promised Land (creating problem for the other who remained).

It is my firm belief that India`s treatment of its Muslims is nothing to be proud of. And I am not talking only about the post Babri period. Even the Congress govts. really didn`t do enough to address the real needs of Muslims and to bring them fully into the national mainstream.

But you are right. Dionysus did touch a raw nerve. India deserves every criticism of its treatment of its Muslim minority by Asia Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and other national and international human rights agencies. But when a Pakistani criticises India`s treatment of her Muslims, it gets my goat every time. Statistics do not lie. Let Pakistanis bring back the Hindu-Sikh proportion of their population to the same level where it was at the time of the partition. Then I will listen even to them.

Until then, let them hang their heads in shame and pray that we do not go down to their level of getting rid of the `mareez` to get rid of the `marz`.

Ahmadzai:
The above responds to your post too. And yes, I agree that Muslim haris in the interior of Sindh also suffer greatly, just as the poor people of India suffer, but it does not mean that Muslims in India do not face problems peculiar to them.

Stuka 72

Agree with you.

Just my two cents. We supported Palestenians and snubbed Israel for long. It was not neccessarily only justice and blah blah. The policy made sense then, Israel was not of much use to us strategically.

Now things have changed so we changed. Now we support both Palestenians and Israel. And we need not worry about problem whole world has. We have enough of our own.

We hugged Saddams, Ayatollahs, Assads, why even Mushi. What is wrong with Sharon. Oh he is not Muslim eh? It was invitation to PM of Israel. Sharon is one today. If there was democratic coup (a la Mayawati/Mulayam) and a peacenik would have become PM, he would have come instead and we would welcomed him same way.

Yogiraj Patil

Adnan:

You are missing the basic point. It is not India that is treating the Palestenians shabbily. It is the Israelis. Therefore your example hoilds true for Israelis who wish to improve their lot.

OTOH, I am saying that though we may not have slavery, we have enough moral wrongs in our own land that we should correct before giving lessons to others. The outrage directed in defense of Palestenians should rather be directed towards reducing poverty in our own country, increasing rule of law, increasing economic opportunities. The yehoods and arabs can sort out their own mess.

Beaty, Stuka, others:
While I agree with India seeking cooperation from anyone it deems fit, including Israel, in furthering its security objectives, can anyone tell me how welcoming Sharon, a symbol of hatred by Muslims throughout the world, enhances India`s security? All it does, in my opinion, is telling its Muslims that it doesn`t give a damn for their feelings.

Ref dost-mittar #75

[Garam Hawa was a great film. And quite realistic, too. If I remember correctly, it showed how one brother left for the Promised Land (creating problem for the other who remained).]

Art does NOT imitate life, as it is usually thought.

Zakir Hussain remained in India and became President of the country while his brother migrated to Pakistan and hasn`t been heard from since then.

It only confirms and re-affirms that the words of Dr. Samuel P. Huntington were prophetic. I think the new alliances are emerging with detrmination and goal to wipe the Muslim civilization off this planet for good, in near future. This should be a reason enough for us to seek new alliances and strengthen our ranks too. It will eventually happen, though there is a greater chance that plague and other ``epidemics`` may strike the Muslims lands first. Ahadith predict a final conflict in syria, where ``hindi`` (pakistani?) army will strike jews, christian, and pagan allliance with a ``blindening lightening`` and the conflict will end.