On Countries of Dwelling

Dear Aisha,

I join the chorus of compliments for you. Your
articles have lost the
blinding flash it used to be, and IMHO, this
possibly is the begining of
a career in writing that will emit more of a
sustained glow, which lasts
longers, outlives you, and tend to influence those
who have similarly
crossed triumphantly beyond catfights and
arguements which only need be
won. It is one anxiety, the need to win today,
which must have had Shaw
saying that very perceptive thing: ``Youth is such a
wonderful thing. What
a crime to waste it on children.``

You have written a very heartfelt piece. I felt you
were coming to terms
with your vulnerability, and taking stock of years
spend overcoming,
blunting, or jettisioning them. Your professors,
your experiences, and
the way your own emotional moorings to certain
values you cherished have
all chipped away at your ability to perceive
things...and what America
has taught you perhaps...should be that...there are
only ways of
perception...there is absolutely no single right
perspective. And,
whenever you do feel threatened by ``one right
perspective``...remember
Ibsen ``The majority is always wrong.``

I felt you might want to read a bit on Martin
Buber...he is a jewish
man...and i do not mean to pkoe you...:)...his
theory of I-Thou...and I-
It...and how it explains why some
communications...interpersonal and
Inter-people... tend to be more rewarding might
actually interest you.

The challenging, bludgeoniing tone in writing...is
like a skill...like
typing...and usually most people can throw
challenges in writing...but
the communicating...``the reaching out to the
other...again a buber
term...is more challenging for the writer. And, I
do believe, a lot of
your earlier writing tended towards passionate
pamphleteering. This, on
the other hand, yoked your real voice.

I know you`ll notice I am Indian...but would rather
you not.

All the best

Zahraj #42

Theek hai, I will assume the most un-charitable position and still be happy with it :)
After all, being compared to a Hall of Famer doesn`t happen too often.

About the attire related question, I was just pointing out something I had noticed
here on chowk. Now, I assure you that us docile Indians bad-mouth and stereotype Pakistanis in every which way possible, but I haven`t heard any comments regarding
their outer-wear.

Inner-wear on the other hand is a different proposition altogether :)

Plats8 40:

Ghalti Bhee Ho Saktee Hae :) But since it was not a ghaltee, I suggest you go with your gut feeling.

Plats8 41:
I did not misunderstand your post, it`s just that I found the question very amusing but to the point.

Regards.

ZahraJ #39,

Terribly sorry. I did not imply that you were judging people by their attire. That was
not directed to you at all.

It was a serious question though, and I wanted to get a Pakistani response to it.
I wouldn`t really call these comments condescending - in fact I am not really sure
how to classify them. I had heard them often enough on chowk, and was just
wondering aloud.

ZahraJ #39,

You called me Plato - not sure whether I should feel amused/honored/condescended.
Please advise....

Dear Plats8: Are you really serious ? I mean is your question a real question? With due respect, I have much better things to do in my life than to concentrate on any Indian`s or for that matter any Pakistani`s attire, in general. (~?~)

Between you and me: Nice and sweet people stand out in any garb or color. If they are well dressed and well groomed - excellento! On the flip side, munhoos people cannot hide behind any pashmina shawl or dress suit - great!

Hopefully, I was helpful, Plato.

sigalph,

Atleast Jinnah is alive and well in Dhaka :)

-YLH

re Manto 30

Good one. You`re right, as they say, `A rose by any other name...`` Now, if you as Premier decided to discriminate against the mullahs for keeping unweildy beards, you won`t hear me complain...at least for a few decades.

On an aside, this just in: One of the odd dozen Jamaat members in the Bangladesh parliament has been disqualified by the High Court on grounds of ``corruption, bribery, and excessive expenditure violative of the People`s Representation Order``. Here`s one to the judiciary! That the guy, Maulana Sayidee, is an unabashed woman-hater and Hindu-baiter makes his disqualification all the more sweet. And, to top it off, the petitioner who moved the court is a veteran Hindu lawyer.

Ditto!! on post at #18 by yantric on September 12, 2003 12:57pm PT
``If the hate machinery that allude to existed why the hell would we(Indians!!) be welcoming sick Pakis kids and healing them.``

The response in India media was very pleasant and encouraging. So were the people associated with these sick kids. The Indian media and the medical fraternity did not view this with binkered eyes.
I again refer to my post at #6

Chowk-staff, By publishing such tirades, you deprecate i-logs.

ZahraJ #28,

I tend to agree with you that Fuzair has been a little too harsh on this piece.
We all have our learning curves, and this was supposed to track Aisha`s
personal evolution anyway. Autobiographies often have an element of self-
indulgence in them.

I have a somewhat unrelated question. I have often seen a small subset of
Pakistanis on chowk making disparaging remarks about the fashion sense
of Indians, or rather the lack of it. Aisha`s depiction of a typical Indian man
and woman in San Jose confirms this. Is this the dominant way that Indians
are depicted and calibrated ? Just curious to hear the Pakistani response. The
Indian response to this will be one of self-righteousness, mostly.

Dear Aisha,
What a wonderfully mature (in the best sense) reflection of your inner experiences! I could have written this piece, but not this eloquently, and with not this warmth.
Yes, life, if it is to be truly lived, ``doesn’t let us be in an extreme or at a static point on the spectrum of political or other activity.`` And although ``this constant flux in our brains is tiresome``, ``surrendering to the dynamic balance leaves us better off.`` Well said!!
There was testimony to your discovery of this truth (in your own life) well before you wrote this article.
I may not share with you a past of always favouring the underdog. Indeed, I was often among those by whom ``it was hated``. Well, sometimes. Most times it was tolerated.
Your thoughts on the American experience mirror my own, minus the college scene. This passage is brilliant I think, even though it`s terribly subjective: `` You can be a cog in the machine, be it a productive one, a comma in a legal brief, a brick on the side of a road that will not be reconstructed for a long time. A bureaucracy of a “social construct of reality” that you’ve had no input in.``
hmmm.. Chomsky there? Incidentally, do you ascribe non-input just to us (foreigners) or equally to everyone living in the Land of the Free? Academic, but I`d like to her your views all the same.
Well... I guess all that`s left to say is ``welcome back``. But I`ll wait to say that in person. :)
rgds,
PM

Missed a thought. When I wrote ``I may not share with you a past of always favouring the underdog. Indeed, I was often among those by whom ``it was hated``.`` I meant to follow with: The irony is that going away from it, calling somewhere else home (or trying to anyway) is what made me more, well, more sympathetic with the underdog. But it`s more than that.. it`s deeper understanding, not just chartiable sympathy. And that is more durable than sympathy.

re. echoboom, who quoted:
``Hence Jinnah`s pluralist doctrine for Pakistan is, by no means, in conflict with his declaration of Pakistan being an ``Islamic democracy``. And his pluralist doctrine continues to be extremely relevant in the context of the divisive forces and voices that have for long plagued Pakistan``
This is welcome news to someone who sees the impracticability of Western-style secularism in a society with such strong and deep religious underpinnings.
However, given the ground realities, i suspect it would be the folks on the right, not the left, that would have more problems with the practical application of this principle/vision. What say ye?

sigalph

lol :)

Waisay I am ready to run with the idea ... cuz echo writes: ``Any system which has any good aspects to it has to be the Islamic one``

So I suppose Secular Democracy is the most Islamic system in the world. Problem solved... what say you Echo?

-YLH

re echoboom to manto

``Calm down. An Islamic system is the best system in the world-- or as a corrollary(sp?) Any system which has any good aspects to it has to be the Islamic one.``

Wonder who has the blinkers.

Fuzair,

First of all, I am not an avid reader of the writer under discussion.

But, don`t you think that we all have our own learning curve ?
While we are on that journey, we will always have some folks who are with us, some who are not with us and some who are way behind us. Just a personal observation.

Echoboom...

I am not in the business of convincing... what is required is complete equality without any discrimination on the basis of religion caste or creed.... you can call it by any name you want... I have not sopped anyone from making a fool of themselves.

-YLH

24:MantoLives

Even when someone says what you yourself mean BUT does not use the words `liberal` `secular` or `pluralism` and draws inspiration from `meesaque` `sharia` or `shoora` instead--your western education puts blinkers on you and you start cursing at windmills and mistake ropes for dragons.

Please shed & cast aside the western-education and start using your own mind. You`ve grown up now. In Quaids days this was considered mature age. Look what Iqbal accomplished when he was at this age.

Be with the futurists. Western edifice is creaking & crumbling and let us join hands to give it a final push..[[ Western is not US or Europe, nor white, nor non-muslim. It is the infidel satanic and secularistic mindset like that of Phiraun, Nimrod and Caligula [ Saddam Bush Mubarak and Fahd types] ]

Calm down. An Islamic system is the best system in the world-- or as a corrollary(sp?) Any system which has any good aspects to it has to be the Islamic one.

From Napoleonic code (inspired by his Islamic bent) to Jefferson`s learning from the French to the present bill of rights. Whatever is good there is ISLAMIC. Call it by whatever name. Muslims, if given a choice, would love to name it Islamic and they will not want it anyother way.

ps u still didn`t answer me on urstruly`s board.

shukar hai kay `Islamists` are atleast accepting the principle of Pluralism .. :)

We are well aware of Prof. ShareefulMujahid`s writings (especially Quaid-e-Azam Studies in interpretation)... he is rather liberal... i doubt that echoboom would agree with him so whole heartedly

From SharifulMujahid
Chairman--QuaideAzam Academy
Dawn--sept. 11,2003.

excerpt:
....................................................................................................................................
He had invoked the Madinite model of statehood in his reply to Lord Mountbatten on August 14, 1947, and that model was based on the Misaq-i-Madina, which Dr. Hamidullah describes as the first written constitution in the world.

The Misaq-i-Madina, promulgated by the Prophet (PBUH), had envisaged a pluralist state (articles 1, 2, 25-35, and 46), bearing in mind the multi-racial, multi-lingual and multi-religious character of Madina, and its defence was made the collective responsibility of all its citizens (articles, 24, 44, 45a, and 45b). Hence Jinnah`s pluralist doctrine for Pakistan is, by no means, in conflict with his declaration of Pakistan being an ``Islamic democracy``. And his pluralist doctrine continues to be extremely relevant in the context of the divisive forces and voices that have for long plagued Pakistan.

---

Dear Aisha,

I agree with Sigalph #3

This is a great piece. Waisay when was Pakistan an underdog in the cricket matches? Or is this a reference to the matches between the Kenyan-Pakis and Koknis?

You are right ... Pakistan is a constant! It will always be there. It is no puff of smoke, nor is it some `ideological state` that some Pakistani pretend but a concrete reality ... which will exist, and lend us inspiration whenever we will turn to it.

-YLH

Aisha - a really beautifully written piece. All best wishes for your move home (and hopes of forgiveness for past misdeeds). I am sure that you will do Pakistan proud.

My Dear Ms. Sarwari,

I apologize for being blunt but this is, again, another waste of bandwidth. Narcissistic, naive, self-indulgent, truly sophomoric and frankly I felt quite embarrassed for you as I read it. This piece read like extracts from the diary of a freshman, not a college freshman but a high school one. Please refrain from submitting more such pieces to Chowk and thus spare both yourself and the reader.

Regards.

where did you learn to write like that Aisha -- great great piece -- great content -- great style -- your pen glides through your emotions like a knife through butter -- u r a very decent sensitive soul --

bless you Aisha --

please write more often and write more ... more

A country whose people have successfully been handed down the hate machinery to the personal level after Kargil.

Guess this says it all. What were we supposed to do after we extended our hand of friendship. Hopes were raised the two countries will find ways to live with each other. What did your guy do ? First he hoodwinked his own Prime Minister and attacked India and then he became your dictator. How the hell can we trust people like that.

If the hate machinery that allude to existed why the hell would we be welcoming sick Pakis kids and healing them. As a matter of fact we Indians are sentimental idiots. We forget how much hate is embedded in our neighbor to the West. Hate was the cause your country came to existence. Hate is what your country was suckled by. Hate is the foreign policy of your country. Hate is your National preoccupation. Even when you know what Hate did your country(split it in half), still you do not give it up.

If you are impressed by America then you should love India. We have people of different religions, different languages coexisting even with great attempts made by our neighbor to provoke us into internal enmities.

I found amusing your sterotyping an Indian programmer and talking about his chappals etc.
Well my sterotytype of a Pakistani in America is a middle aged guy with dyed beard, wearing kurta and salwar followed by a few women who could be either his wives or daughters wearing garish salwar kameezez and with a bunch of kids ( at least 6).

I find it amazing how you throw words like ``progroms of Muslims in Gujrat``. Well Muslims in India have grown both in absolute numbers and percentage of population since 1947. People subjected to progroms are not supposed to do that. You guys should know after you most efficeintly progrommed Hindus and Sikhs out of Pakiland. Have you ever wondered that if things are so bad for Muslims in Gujrat, why they have not made a beeline to to the Pakistani border and asked for asylum. I have not heard about a single incident of a single muslim trying to enter the Paki homeland. On the contrary a number of Bongs(as your great Field Marshal used to call them) are still coming over from Bangaladesh into India. Do u think they are masochists who love to be ``Progrommed`` in India.

This is a wonderful article. Definitely, Pakistan for you will be as grand as you make it with your personal efforts. Wish every Pakistani was like you. Hope you never get disillusioned by the state of this country.

Aisha,

You`ve got a lot of good material here that would be very interesting to read. Some of the ideas you`ve expressed would warrant separate essays themselves- and should you decide to explore some of those ideas (if you havent already), I hope you submit what emerges to Chowk.

Best to you and Yasser on the upcoming union!

Urstruly #7,

This is hypocrisy of the highest order - what exactly have you done to support the
underdog, other than mouthing useless sermons and vacuous posturing ? Heroism
on the keyboard is what you seem to have specialized in.

Aisha #9,

Good luck on the upcoming event. Given his track record, Urstruly will perhaps come
back with some amount of piss and vinegar - whether you indulge him is your choice.

Good reflection.

It`s wonderful to see how you and Yasser have matured together. Bodes well for your life together.
Best wishes.

Aisha:

congradulations and best wishes...for health and happiness...will crash the party if passing through;)

lve,

t

Congrats and my very best wishes :)

Regards.

nice piece Aisha, though at times slightly disjointed but a worthy cause!
..oh and congratulations on your forthcoming wedding--even if it is to yasser!! (that was meant to be a joke and not offensive i hope. yasser is misguided (in aqidah) but okay at heart. that`s the feeling i get.)

:-)

Re: Urstruly,

I`d hate getting into a defensive plot here on Chowk, but # 7 was uncalled for. What are you referring to?

Aisha F Sarwari

...... lovely!....... now i am going to go home and slap my daughter who thinks that hanging out at starbucks is what america is all about, and hanging out at music land in jinnah super is what pakistan is all about .......... better still, i am going to make her read this article ..........

best wishes ...........

Good luck to you in Pakistan Aisha. Your efforts will be missed here in America.

I am sure that CHOWK readers will be much interested to hear from in December.

Will be expecting an invitation.

All I can say once again.....

WATCH OUT PAKISTAN!


Ras

Aisha

There was a time when I used to beleive in you but then you compromised. You broke your own vows and stopped supporting the underdog. You failed when the time of test and tribulation came. Anyone can be hero on his keyboard, its the time of test that shows ones character.

Best of luck to you when you land in you fabled pureland which has no infidels but only the purest of the jihadis.

As regards:
``Aur India. My neighbor, America’s current fascination, my government’s enemy. A country whose people have successfully been handed down the hate machinery to the personal level after Kargil. ``

I remember that in a television interview on Star TV Hindi Channel where kargil was discussed a number of people asked this question:- Why us? What have we done to you?
I could not stop drawing similarity between this question being asked after 9/11 by the Americans. Infact, India had forgotten Pakistan (as America had forgotten before 9/11) before Kargil but were jolted suddenly one day to find that some one has assaulted them without provocation.

This article is a jumble of emotional diatribe and socio-political nonsene! What were chowk editors thinking?

Aisha:

This is one of the best, most heartfelt articles I have read from you. Also, I am glad that you have acknowledged Africa as well for that too is part of your home. Acknowledging it reflects on your own maturity and expansion of your personal horizons.

Excellent Read.

Aisha, if Pakistan cannot be changed for the better by the likes of you, I doubt it can ever be changed. It takes a singular greatness of heart and character to admit that one is in a constant state of reform and re-evaluation personally. I`d be the first one to admit that I, as I am sure many others, have a lot to learn from your candor and introspection.

Yes, in Pakistan (or anywhere else) you shoudn`t expect the `sohni-dharti`. But then a `dharti` is made `sohni`, as Emperor Shahjahan once said of Lahore, by those who love her. I am not Pakistani by any stretch but I recall with fondness and respect the great sacrifices my grandparents made to create the ideal that Mr. Jinnah enunciated 60 years ago. May you always live that ideal every day as you start your new life there. Pakistan will expect nothing less; you need give to her nothing more.

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Good luck for you Ayesha. May you succeed in your dreams for your people and country.