Fading Exclamations

sorry to deviate from ur discussion. Can some one translate this song from Indian movie Bazaar into English. Its heavily loaded with Urdu words. BUt i really like this song. What a sweet voice Lataji has. Thanks in advance.

Dikhayi Diye Yoon Ke Bekhudh Kiya
Humein Aapse Bhi Judaa Kar Chale

Jabhi Sajda Karte Hi Sarse Gayi
Haq-E-Bandigi Hum Ada Kar Chale

Parastish Kiya Tak Ke Aye But Tujhe
Nazar Mein Saboki Khuda Kar Gaye

Bahut Arzoo Thi Gali Ki Tere
So Ya Se Lahoo Mein Naha Kar Chale

Fakirana Ae Sada Kar Chale
Miya Khush Raho Hum Dua Kar Chale

Jo Tujh Bin Na Jeene Ka Kehte Hum
So Us Ahad Ko Ab Wafa Kar Chale

Koi Na Umeed Na Karte Nigahen
So Tum Humse Munh Bhi Chhupa Kar Chale

Re to #82 by aliyasaeed

``Samin Khan, calm down, this is only between friend, why get worked up when we can have fun chatting amicably. I am on your side, don`t lose your cool.....``
hey i am not angry god promise if there is any.hehehe

``As for your description of me as an apologist, and the requotation of a part of your previous post to clarify it for ever one, well I am going to think the moment got the better of you, and won`t hold it against you. I am an old paapi of the chowk, some one who should be in the chowk nursing home along with the likes of temporal, SR etc. if you are too angry at me, I`ll just have to forgive you by blaming your youthful enthusiasm to see the world a better place``

for what my did you want to forgive me i dont know

``Marmaduke Pickthall translates 5:55 as ``Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow down (in prayer)``. ``

here is translation of Yusuf Ali`s,Marmaduke Mohammad Pickthall`s and M. H. Shakir`s and full verces


013.042
YUSUFALI: Those before them did (also) devise plots; but in all things
the master-planning is Allah`s He knoweth the doings of every soul:
and soon will the Unbelievers know who gets home in the end.
PICKTHAL: Those who were before them plotted; but all plotting is
Allah`s. He knoweth that which each soul earneth. The disbelievers
will come to know for whom will be the sequel of the (heavenly) Home.
SHAKIR: And those before them did indeed make plans, but all planning
is Allah`s; He knows what every soul earns, and the unbelievers shall
come to know for whom is the (better) issue of the abode.

013.041
YUSUFALI: See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their
control) from its outlying borders? (Where) Allah commands, there is
none to put back His Command: and He is swift in calling to account.
PICKTHAL: See they not how we aim to the land, reducing it of its
outlying parts? (When) Allah doometh there is none that can postpone
His doom, and He is swift at reckoning.
SHAKIR: Do they not see that We are bringing destruction upon the land
by curtailing it of its sides? And Allah pronounces a doom-- there is
no repeller of His decree, and He is swift to take account.

021.44
YUSUFALI: ``And verily We shall cause you to abide in the land, and
succeed them. This for such as fear the Time when they shall stand
before My tribunal,- such as fear the punishment denounced.``
PICKTHAL: And verily We shall make you to dwell in the land after
them. This is for him who feareth My Majesty and feareth My threats.
SHAKIR: And most certainly We will settle you in the land after them;
this is for him who fears standing in My presence and who fears My
threat


003.028
YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers
Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will
there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may
Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember)
Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in
preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with
Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking
(as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself.
Unto Allah is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather
than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the
guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them,
guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from)
Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming

004.139
YUSUFALI: Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honour they seek among them? Nay,- all honour is with Allah.
PICKTHAL: Those who chose disbelievers for their friends instead of believers! Do they look for power at their hands? Lo! all power appertaineth to Allah.
SHAKIR: Those who take the unbelievers for guardians rather than believers. Do they seek honor from them? Then surely all honor is for Allah.


004.144
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Choose not disbelievers for (your) friends in place of believers. Would ye give Allah a clear warrant against you?
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people

005.055
YUSUFALI: Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
PICKTHAL: Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).
SHAKIR: Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

005.080
YUSUFALI: Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers. Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah`s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.
PICKTHAL: Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide.
SHAKIR: You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.

022.004
YUSUFALI: About the (Evil One) it is decreed that whoever turns to him for friendship, him will he lead astray, and he will guide him to the Penalty of the Fire.
PICKTHAL: For him it is decreed that whoso taketh him for friend, he verily will mislead him and will guide him to the punishment of the Flame.
SHAKIR: Against him it is written down that whoever takes him for a friend, he shall lead him astray and conduct him to the chastisement of the burning fire.

060.001
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in Allah your Lord! If ye have come out to strive in My Way and to seek My Good Pleasure, (take them not as friends), holding secret converse of love (and friendship) with them: for I know full well all that ye conceal and all that ye reveal. And any of you that does this has strayed from the Straight Path.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you, driving out the messenger and you because ye believe in Allah, your Lord? If ye have come forth to strive in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship). Do ye show friendship unto them in secret, when I am Best Aware of what ye hide and what ye proclaim? And whosoever doeth it among you, he verily hath strayed from the right way.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, driving out the Messenger and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord? If you go forth struggling hard in My path and seeking My pleasure, would you manifest love to them? And I know what you conceal and what you manifest; and whoever of you does this, he indeed has gone astray from the straight path.

060.002
YUSUFALI: If they were to get the better of you, they would behave to you as enemies, and stretch forth their hands and their tongues against you for evil: and they desire that ye should reject the Truth.
PICKTHAL: If they have the upper hand of you, they will be your foes, and will stretch out their hands and their tongues toward you with evil (intent), and they long for you to disbelieve.
SHAKIR: If they find you, they will be your enemies, and will stretch forth towards you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they ardently desire that you may disbelieve.

re to #74 by sameerJB

``Saminshah #48:

``This was one post that I copied to my harddisk in about a year. Did you actually write this 4 pages long post worth an article at chowk under some title like Islamists` Hypocrisy or Indefensible Islam?``


I write this post first in 2002 and post as a post not as article under title of ``danger of islam to civilized world`` at one of yahoo`s giocities secular forum site and second time with changes i put it under title of ``may be wourld war 3 between who loves freedom and who not `` and third time i put it at chowk now with some changes.but u see it at chowk some times ago then i have to say that i know chowk since 3 or 4 month.so i dont know.

``Great job and excellent post though I doubt that you actually have more knowledge of the verses of koran than Urstruly, tahmed and Naqshbandi``

U can free to doubt anyone and i never claim about my knowledge and i dont want to prove
but atleast i know i can think freely

and i cant help but if u read my post 48 again u may be find yourself in this catagory

``Afterwards, they started to review the CV of the writers and raised excuses such as: ‘pseudonym writer’, ‘background of the writer’, ‘whereabouts of the author’, ‘the age of the writer’, ’what qualifications the author has’, ‘which University the author graduated from’, ’in which place the writer does his research’,’ who is his supervisor’……….and so on. ``

re: romair

{One group wants to put it into everyone`s life, and the other group wants to completely blame it for everything. }

...you have been peddling this $hit for 3 years now and no one buys it...don`t you get tired of it?...is there that much fat insulating your neurons?...

ahmedzai #67 I re-read your post, and I do indeed support your view to the extent you are saying that a feeling of injustice can drive a people towards extremists. And I will agree that the rise of mullah parties in nwfp and baluchistan can be attributed, at least in part, to a ``sympathy vote`` for the large numbers of pakistani taliban who were killed in afghanistan (but there were other factors too, obviously, which caused large numbers of young men from these areas to become recruited as taliban in the first place). I believe there is much more to this issue, but that would be a separate discussion.

However, the point urstruly made (and the one you mentioned) was a different one: he was using the deaths of iraqis and afghans to justify the acts of 9/11. This ``explanation`` of the cold-blooded killing of innocent people on 9/11 is (as I mentioned below) not merely self defeating in practical terms, it is also intellectually absurd and morally repugnant.

From your posts, it seems that even though you quoted urstruly, you do agree with me on this fundamental point of where we draw the line between criminal behavior vs. different points of view on public issues. One day urstruly may see the light, but I will not hold my breath.

Samin Khan, calm down, this is only between friend, why get worked up when we can have fun chatting amicably. I am on your side, don`t lose your cool, I support a change as much as you do, but I can`t bend the facts to support our view, may I know who did the translation you provided, because it seems so different. If there is an alternative translation around, I`d like to read it to educate myself. just give me a name of the publisher or the translator, I`ll find it on my own.
Marmaduke Pickthall translates 5:55 as ``Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poor due, and bow down (in prayer)``.
You translate it as: Real friends are God, His apostle (Muhammad) and the fellowship of pious and charitable believers.

the reason why it is important to quote full sentences instead of little pieces is that it truly changes the meaning, thats just how language goes, e.g ``Can I have some water `` is different from ``have some water`` even though the latter sentence comes from the previous one.
As for your description of me as an apologist, and the requotation of a part of your previous post to clarify it for ever one, well I am going to think the moment got the better of you, and won`t hold it against you. I am an old paapi of the chowk, some one who should be in the chowk nursing home along with the likes of temporal, SR etc. if you are too angry at me, I`ll just have to forgive you by blaming your youthful enthusiasm to see the world a better place.

nazarhayatkhan: Thank you sir. You are a scholar and a gentleman. :-)

faisaluno: Thanks too for a good discussion. We shall no doubt cross sword again, another chowk board, another time. :-)

re: Temporal

Yahoo! messenger is not a good idea at the present time. Just staying away from the madness, which is the reason why I seldom internact on Chowk. Presently, I am contemplating my departure. I think I have played my innings and now, I need to decide whether to play the averages or not. If I play the averages, I will have to wait for another 20 years or so and that is too long to wait.

It is time to say good bye. It is hard to say good bye considering what I will be leaving behind. A Roman bath would be really nice this time of the year, don`t you agree?

Ciao

Why people are bent upon dividing societies, particularly the Pakistani society, around religion, is something I will never understand. Certain people, on this site, are obsessed with religion. One group wants to put it into everyone`s life, and the other group wants to completely blame it for everything.

Both these groups are hazardous to the health of Pakistan. They both need each other to survive. If one of them disappears, the other will have nothing to fight over. Both want a destructive solution of their problems, based on hatespeak and shrill screaming. Both groups are bolstered by a hatred of the other. Hate is their driving force.

One will argue for a Punjabi Ummah, outside the boundries of Pakistan, but will make fun of an Islamic Ummah, outside the borders of Pakistan. The other will spend all his time on asking for an Islamic Ummah outside the borders of Pakistan.

I thinking a Punjabi-centric system, with Sharif family as its head, dominating the rest of Pakistan, is very dangerous. As dangerous, if not more, than a religious dominated country. Pakistan needs to neither be part of an extended Islamic Ummah nor a part of an extended Punjabi Ummah. These people need to be kept at bay.

Neither is interested in solving any of the real problems in Pakistan. Hopefully, both these groups will only destroy each other, without affecting the rest of the country. They are a watered down version of Pakistan`s OBL and Pakistan`s Wolfowitz.

...holy $hit, t`s gone fundo....

Saminshah #48:

This was one post that I copied to my harddisk in about a year. Did you actually write this 4 pages long post worth an article at chowk under some title like Islamists` Hypocrisy or Indefensible Islam? Great job and excellent post though I doubt that you actually have more knowledge of the verses of koran than Urstruly, tahmed and Naqshbandi.

tahmed sahib:

i have no disagreement with the essence of what you are saying. but what you are saying by itself is not going to be enough by a long shot. for reasons right and wrong, average mussalman is pretty mad at uncle sam and as things are shaping up, this attitude is not going to be changing anytime soon. (all bets are off should anything happen to arafat). and while you might dismiss this attitude as inconsequential and rooted in envy and whatnot, i myself am pretty concerned cause i have to periodically, travel to a couple of muslim countries to drum up business on behalf of an american corp. and the americans i meet in those countries are pretty concerned as well.

anyway enjoyed interacting with you. i am sure we will lock horns on this topic again.

nazar sahib:

if you are so sure about the fact that punjabis are dying to hangout with those moronic indian friends of yours, why dont you invite them to lahore, take them to badshahi mosque after friday prayers and, get them to repeat some of the things they say here. and please do keep a camera handy cause i would like to see the reaction.

Hamidm2 & Tehmed 32

Your powers of expressions is required on this critical subject - and you are doing a good job of it.

Saminshah has let it out so boldly - coldly - factually - fearlessly and so effectively.

Thanks to you all.

saminshah#48, aliyasaeed#56:
If translation of the same document can make such a big difference, one may be forgiven for thinking that Quran is a book of the Arab by the Arab and for the Arab.

re to #56 by aliyasaeed
``I am afraid most of the references were incorrect``
you must read my post 48 again and as islamist apologist u get catagory 1 and 2
as i mantion in my post like this


``In the beginning, the Islamists arguments ran like: ‘out of context’, ‘selective quotes’, ‘verses not quoted in its entirety’, ‘using incorrect verse’, ‘translation problem’, ‘Qur’an cannot be translated’, ’spelling error’, ‘grammatical and punctuation mistakes’, ‘no fluency in Arabic’, ‘ulterior motive to defame Allah’s Din’ (religion of Allah) and so on.
Afterwards, they started to review the CV of the writers and raised excuses such as: ‘pseudonym writer’, ‘background of the writer’, ‘whereabouts of the author’, ‘the age of the writer’, ’what qualifications the author has’, ‘which University the author graduated from’, ’in which place the writer does his research’,’ who is his supervisor’……….and so on. ``

my dear plz read the essance of reference not grammer of it