Of Rites and Rights: An Interview with Asma Jahangir

16:temporal
can you furnish your definition of (a)Islam and (b) Muslims please?

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I can. I won`t.
A muslim is supposed to know that.

``What is the definition of ``IS``?

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President-zanee-Clinton, trying the smartass route.

The minar-i-Pakistan behaviour of bhais & humsais.

It was not Jama`at Islami. It was some local ad-hoc louts. No organisation there. Asma is wrong here.

But when Musharraf visited Gandhi`s Samadhi the Shiv Sena did `purify` the smadhee by giving it a cow-urine bath.

Where can one find such reciprocating brotherhood or neighborhood?

re manto #9

Excellent letters. Yep, gotts go back to Dominion..or at least a simple Republic!

faisaluno #25 holding a position of power is not necessary to providing public service. indeed, pakistan runs on the basis of work done OUTSIDE the government...whether it is education or health or poverty alleviation...this is the concept of pluralistic societies, and thank God that no military government, no religious party, has been able to stop the emergence of pluralism in pakistan.

RE #20 Pardesi ``#4 Indian
Did you mean to say eunuchs ? I hope you did not graduated from IIT.

and for rest of chowkies, did JAY finally commited suicide or something. I have not seen him interact in a while. ``

Sigh..the pitfalls of accusing others....

``I hope you did not graduated from IIT`` maybe revise to ``I hope you did not graduate from IIT``.
``committed`` not ``commited`` but really it should be ``did JAY finally commit suicide``.

Off corse I havn`t notised me speling deterioratin - but eye yuse a spel checka

One has to admire Asma Jehangir on certain issues. On top of this list is her fight for women`s rights in Pakistan. There is no denying that. It doesn`t matter whether one agrees with her or not.

And I do admire her for that. At the same time, I think she does go somewhat overboard in using that to get some cheap popularity for herself sometimes. One should be anti-establishment because one believes in it. One should not attempt to do it at the expense of others, who are not the establishment.

A lady whose views I have been following quite closely is Dr. Riffat Hassan. Interestingly, I saw her on Tariq Fateh`s show. I find my views on religion, women`s rights, etc. in Pakistan to be quite in line with hers - at least whatever I have heard from her so far. She is an activist, though not nearly as big as Asma Jehangir. But her views seem quite a bit more balanced on certain issues. Her and Asma Jehangir have been having somewhat of a disagreement in the press on certain issues. Following is her bio:

``Dr. Riffat Hassan is professor of religious studies at the University of Louisville, Kentucky and the founding director of the INRFVVP, a network of organizations to combat violence against women in South Asia. Dr. Hassan is originally from Pakistan and spent the early years of her life in Lahore where her first collection of poetry was published at the age of sixteen. Soon thereafter she proceeded to the UK to complete her studies in philosophy and theology, obtaining her undergraduate degree and doctorate from Durham University. She then moved to the United States and has taught at the University of Louisville for over twenty years. Her teaching and research career in the US also includes appointments at Harvard Divinity School, Oklahoma State University, Villanova University and the University of Pennsylvania. She is the author of numerous books and scholarly articles
on the status of women in the Muslim world and on ecumenical conversations between Muslims and other religious groups. Her ecumenical work has given her an opportunity to meet religious leaders including Pope John Paul and members of the Iranian clergy. Dr. Hassan is currently working on a book about the status of women in Islam entitled ``Equal Before Allah.`` Among her many honors and awards is her inclusion in Life Magazine`s compendium of 100 great voices on ``The Meaning of Life.``

Some info on her at http://www.cpsdv.org/Articles/hijack.htm

I believe her daughter Mehr is a movie actress and has appeared in movies in India and Pakistan.

dost-mittar #23: ``Pakistanis of Romair ilk are fond of repeating how Pakistan is tolerant in letting pirated Indian videos to be openly shown in Pakistan.``

You are making a false claim here. I have never stated that Pakistan is tolerant in letting pirated Indian videos to be openly shown in Pakistan.

What I have stated is that Pakistanis take interest in things Indians, including Indian movies, due to which they know more about India than Indians know about Pakistan. This is a fact. Though it has nothing to do with the tolerance of Pakistan, as a country. Pakistan`s policies, just like India`s policies, are quite intolerant towards its neighbor. However the attitiude of Pakistanis seems to be quite a bit less affected by such intolerant govt. policies, than the attitude of Indians. One of the reasons being the Pakistanis better kinowledge of India.

``Indians do allow Pakistani artists to perform and record in India and receive royalties on the sale of their records there while Pakistan, to the best of my knowledge, does not reciprocate this favour.``

Indians perform in Pakistan quite a bit. Daler Mehndi, Sukhbir, Lucky Ali to name a few. Sonu Nigam does the playback singing, I believe, for many of the new Pakistani movie songs, etc. etc. I assume the money the Indian artists make goes back with them. Other than Daler Mehndi, who does charity shows for Imran Khan`s hospital.

Indians do not record in Pakistan, because India has much better facilities. Pakistanis record in India, because India for the same reason, i.e. India has much better recording, editing, choreography etc. facilities. Pakistani television ads are made in India also. The main beneficiary of this are the Indian companies. Since all of the money from this goes to Indian companies who make the ads and organize the concerts. I assume the Pakistani artists take a salary just like the Indian artistst take a salary. In essence, it is a loss of Pakistani ad and studio industry, because they cannot compete with the Indian industry.

``Even the Pakistani govt. is in no position to guarantee the safety of the pipeline from non-state actors in Pakistan.``

The oil and gas industry is one of the areas in Pakistan which seems to be getting a lot of foreign investment, in comparison to other areas. Pakistan provides international gaurantees to all these foreign companies, otherwise they would not come to Pakistan. Similarly, Pakistani govt. has provided all kinds of gaurantees for the pipeline to both the Iranis and to India.

Could you highlight the non-state actors, who would be a threat? The only non-state actors I know of having done anything to any pipelines in the past decade are a few explosions that occured to Pakistani pipelines due to royalty issues between two Baluchi tribes. Not that big of a deal if you ask me. The financial loss, in comparison to the total commodity pumped through these lines over decades, was microscopic, since they have been around for so long, working well. I have seen the layout of the pipelines in Pakistan in a computer simulation. Gas from remote Baluchistan gets pumped through the length and breadth of Pakistan. And so far the system has worked well. I cannot recall turning on my gas heater in Islamabad and it not working. One or two explosions is not much. They get fixed quite quickly.

You need to keep in mind that Iran is involved also, which is an ally of Pakistan, and not a hostile country. In international contracts, international gaurantees are provided. Even in contracts where Pakistan was ripped off, like the Independent Power Plants, Pakistan was forced to honor the contracts, made by previous govts. at great loss to itself.

So there is really no ecnomic reason for India to refuse the pipeline. It is not dissimilar to India refusing to play cricket. It is simple politics, in which both countries are losing out.

I think India maybe pushing it too far, with its one-sided stances. Indians need to realize that Pakistan has just as many, if not more, complains against India, as vice-versa. Each country considers its complains to be legitimate. Each considers the other to be the biggest terrorist in the world. So Pakistan has every right to behave with India in the same manner as India behaves with Pakistan. Yet Pakistan is still trying to talk and play.

What will happen if Pakistan also adapts the same attitude as India? Sooner or later Pakistan will be forced to adapt equivalent policies of no talks, no cricket etc. Will we all be better off then?

So its about time, India got off its moral high horse, and started trying to solve the problems. Or at least started realizing that Pakistan consider it just as evil as it considers Pakistan. If Pakistan can consider India evil and still want to talk to it, then why cannot India consider Pakistan evil and still talk to it?

Considering someone evil does not mean one should not talk to them.

My own guess is that the BJP needs to create an evil out of Pakistan, to keep its votebank. And if talks start, they will invariably move towards Kashmir. And then towards a solution of Kashmir. And the internationally accepted and humane solution to Kashmir would result in a plebescite. And India is quite convinced that the Kashmiris will vote to separate from India. Hence, the best way to avoid this sequence of events is to not talk at all.

India needs to either convince (not through force) the Kashmiris to vote for India in a plebescite or it needs to give them their independence. At the same time, if India is convinced that the Kashmiris blame Pakistan, and not India, for all the terrorism in Kashmir, and that Pakistan is causing all the problem in Kashmir, or if it genuinely feels that the recent elections in Kashmir indicate a desire of Kashmiris to remain with the Indian Union, then it should call Pakistan`s bluff and ask the Kashmiris for their opinion, on this issue. It is India`s inablity to do any of the above, that is the cause of most of the problems between India and Pakistan.

Maybe if the Congress comes into power, it will agree to talk. Or maybe if Indians starting learning about Pakistan by taking interest in it, and then realizing that we are not the evil that their govt. has convinced them off, things may improve also.

From Pakistan`s side, Pakistan would be well-advised to drop all visa restrictions for Indians, even if Indians do not do the same. This will give a boost to Pakistans` tourist industry, and more importantly, will allow India to see Pakistan, thereby removing their prejudices. Not to mention the fact, that it will allow my many Indian colleagues to discuss Pakistan with me. Rather than all of us discussing India 100% of the time, due to their lack of knowledge of anything Pakistani.

re: mantolives

A word of advice. Next time, when you are near Asma Jahangir make sure you guard your conscience very carefully. If she is the hope of Pakistan, then hope is a four letter word.

Ciao

re:#20 by pardaisi
``#4 Indian
Did you mean to say eunuchs ? I hope you did not graduated from IIT.``
No. He graduated from LUMS, whatever the hell that is (I do not know and i do not want to know).
Sridhar

stuka #17 he is. also hamzad afaqui. apparently he cant stand his own posts, and kicks himself out of chowk every few months. then he comes back with a new nick hoping to start writing coherent sentences. but all that comes out in the end is some hodge podge about baa-baa-black sheep and islam and so forth. please help this man.

if asma jehangir is so hot and democracy is the answer, why does`nt she run for elections?

#20 pardaisi

Spell error. How did u guess? Yes from IIT Powai. Bus no. 36 from Ghatkopar.

Asma Jehangir is indeed a bastion of modernity and commands the respect of a majority of Pakistanis. She has struggled for rights of women and minorities with utter determination. I wish her cause finds more followers in Pakistan.

Her political views will have to be taken in with with a pinch of salt. She adheres to the view that cultural exchange between the two countries will facilitate resolution of Kashmir conflict. I find that opinion too utopian.

HE:
[If India wanted to ``move ahead`` despite Kashmir, it would have no qualms in playing cricket in Pakistan. Moreover, Pakistan has already agreed to let Iran-India gas pipeline pass through Pakistani territory. It is India that has refused this proposal.]

Agree with you on cricket but not on the gas pipeline. There are real security issues for Indians in having a vital commodity like gas passing through hostile territory. Even the Pakistani govt. is in no position to guarantee the safety of the pipeline from non-state actors in Pakistan.
And whatever India`s motives in giving MFN status to Pakistan, it does have a right to insist upon reciprocity before accepting more items on Pakistani agenda. Pakistanis of Romair ilk are fond of repeating how Pakistan is tolerant in letting pirated Indian videos to be openly shown in Pakistan. However, Indians dont get a penny out of this theft of Indian product. OTOH, Indians do allow Pakistani artists to perform and record in India and receive royalties on the sale of their records there while Pakistan, to the best of my knowledge, does not reciprocate this favour.

stuka:
[Is Echoboom Farangi Kush?]
....I didn`t know you were a slow learner:-).

It`s natural for a peacenik like me to agree with everything Asma Jehangir says. I think people-to-people contact is more important than trade. In trade, there may be some losers on both sides, although I haven`t seen any Indian businessman opposing opening of trade between the two countries. But people-to-people contact is a win-win situation. If one baby noor to could swell millions of Indian eyes, imagine what scores of similar human stories on both sides would do to melt the walls of hatred!

[Even though we do have in our country the German Cultural Center the French Cultural Center, but we don’t have an Indian Cultural Center; we don’t have a Bangladesh Cultural Center, we don’t have a Nepalese Cultural Center; we don’t have a Sirilankan Cultural Center. We need something that is so close to us in culture, geographically, and in terms of certain value structures as well.]
Asma is being naive here. German or French culture pose no threat to the identity of Pakistan. But an Indian cultural centre strikes at the very roots of the `we-are-not-indians` identity of Pakistan.

[Lahore and in some ways it was not such a good experience with the army turning their back on him and Jamaat Islami going and washing Minare Pakistan after he left.]
This incident should not be equated with Kargil. I am sure there are people in India who might do similar acts in India during the visit of a Pakistani leader. The acts of the state is what should count and not that of a minority.

[My own children on a visit to India have been shocked to learn that many of my friends are Hindus, and they can’t reconcile to it for a while because of the learning they have done here.]
This is a real shock even for someone like me who has already read on chowk about the syllabus and texts used in Pakistani schools. I could not have imagined that the brainwashing at school is stronger than the bringing up in Asma Jehangir`s home.

Asma Jehangir, with her deeds, has already proved herself to be a courageous and dedicated individual. She has boldly stood up for those suffering from injustice. This interview shows the straightforward and clear-headed personality that she is.

She is indeed a shining light of hope during these dark times in Pakistan. She represents the true spirit of the people of Pakistan.

I think someone should do a complete biography on people like her (and others like Edhi). Her deeds would serve to inspire a population that has been repeatedly let down by corrupt leaders and has nothing but clowns in political life today.