Kashmir from the Left

re:#73 by ahmadzai
Your argument was valid before Kargil. Now India and the whole world knows how Pak Army uses its resources to push Mujahideens (terrorists) into India. During Kargil Pak Armymen camouflaged as mujahideens invaded into Kargil. So, do not be stupid enough to keep harping on the same theme.
So, these people crossing into Indian Kashmir, who are these people? Surely not Kashmiris in India fighting for independence? What the heck are they doing? Why are they entering from Pak side? Well, i know you will come up with some perverted logic of your own.

Anyway, you guys are the limit. I do not even feel like interacting with the likes of you who think everything is fine with Pak when the whole world is saying Pak is a terrorist haven. Read the statements coming out of U.K lately?
Sridhar

#16 by arjun_m on September 28, 2003 8:05am PT

``..... most Indians would be fine with the status quo...converting the LoC into an international border.....``

I agree with arjun_m. India is a status quo power. Regardless what might be mouthed officially regarding PoK, it is my belief too that India will agree to a compromise that turns the LoC into the international border. It is Pakistan`s ruling elite (primarily its military) that harbors irredentist dreams epitomized by its war cry, ``Kashmir banega Pakistan.`` It is hell bent on altering the status quo. The Kargil misadventure was a product of this mindset.

The international community too sees merit in turning the LoC into the international border. Just 3 years back, President Clinton stopped in Islamabad and spoke directly to the people of Pakistan (over the heads of its military dictatorship) on TV to warn them, ``This era does not reward people who struggle in vain to redraw borders with blood.``

It is also interesting to note that LoC as the international border is not as divisive as it sounds because of the demographic differences that have evolved due to dramatically different policies pursued since 1947 on the the two sides of LoC. Jammu & Kashmir on the Indian side of the LoC remains a religiously diverse society (in spite of the wholesale expulsion of the Pandits from the Valley). PoK, on the other hand, has discarded the eclectic tradition of Kashmiriyat in favor of religious homogeneity.

It is only the Jammu and Kashmir on the Indian side of the LoC that has retained the legacy from Maharaja`s time that prevents non-residents of the state from acquiring
immovable property.

But that is certainly not true on the Pakistan side of the LoC. This has led to a drastic alteration in the demographic composition of PoK.

To retain Jammu & Kashmir`s sense of identity the Indian Government scrupulously honored a law (enforced by the Dogra Maharajas of the State) which forbade any
non-Kashmiri, someone not born or a resident of the State, from acquiring immovable property of any kind in the State. This was done to ensure that the demographic
character of the State is not altered. The law exists and is enforced to this today.

Contrast this with the virtual colonization of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK) and also of the so-called Northern Areas of Pakistan.

It needs to be also noted that Kashmiri language is far less significant in ``Azad`` Kashmir than it is in Jammu & Kashmir in India across the LoC. In PoK Punjabi/Lahandi/Pothwari is far more important today than Kashmiri:

(1) According to latest census figures, only about 100,000 in PoK (Pakistan Occupied Kashmir) claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue. This is in sharp contrast to Jammu & Kashmir across the LoC where more than 4 million claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue.

(2) Kashmiri speakers lack the critical mass to be significant in PoK. They form a mere 2% of the population. In sharp contrast, nearly the half the population of Jammu & Kashmir claim Kashmiri as their mother tongue.

(3) Institute of Kashmir Studies in Muzaffarabad does some language promotion - but observers have acknowledged that it is a lost cause in PoK.

Thus Kashmiris speakers will not find themselves divided the way, say, the Sindhi speakers were as a result of the partition of 1947. The Sindhi speakers who had to flee across the border to India number more than the number of Palestinians who were displaced by the partition of Palestine. And today, Sindhi diaspora in India numbers more than the population of the Kashmir Valley!

In conclusion, a permanent partition along the LoC will be far more merciful to the Kashmiri speakers than, say, the 1947 partition was to the Sindhi speakers.

Jammu & Kashmir (and Ladakh) on the Indian side of LoC remains multi-religious. Terrorists from across the LoC are trying to ruthlessly impose the religious homogeneity of Pak Occupied Kashmir (PoK) on the rest of the province - not surprising in view of the nexus between these terrorists and Taliban/Al Qaeda over the years.

``Kashmir banega Pakistan`` is not a Kashmiri slogan, it is a slogan engendered in the cantonments in Pindi, Lahore and Sialkot. It is a slogan designed to preserve the perks & privileges of Pakistan`s military.

There is absolutely nothing in the history of Pakistan`s ruling elite (primarily the military) to suggest that it cares any more for freedom and democracy in Jammu & Kashmir than it cares for freedom and democracy for Pakistanis!

If Pakistan`s ruling elite can let a quarter million stranded ``Biharis`` (who consider themselves Pakistanis) to rot in refugee camps for decades, it cannot possibly care for
Kashmiris who don`t even call themselves Pakistanis. The ``Biharis`` will not come with any real estate - naturally Pakistan`s ruling elite doesn`t want to touch them even with a 10 ft pole.

Funds were set up in Pakistan, and even in Saudi Arabia, to finance the repatriation of these hapless ``Biharis``. The Rabita trust was one such fund. And General Pervez
Musharraf was himself on its board. I don`t know how much fund was collected by the Rabita trust for the purpose over the years. But I was not very surprised to be told
ruefully by a Mohajir-Pakistani acquaintance that in the post 9/11 era, the funds of that trust have been frozen on orders from the American government because they were being misused to promote terrorism. And that, in a nutshell, spells out the real tragedy.

Pakistan`s ruling elite has never lacked in funds to promote jihad in Afghanistan or Kashmir. But they had not a penny to spare for the repatriation of the hapless ``Biharis`` !!

Pakistan`s ruling elite doesn`t care a damn for the people of Jammu & Kashmir. All it is interested in is the real estate. To that end, it has been financing cross border terrorism which has already succeeded in imposing the religious homogeneity of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir on the Kashmir Valley as a first step toward turning it into a fiefdom for Pakistan`s ruling elite.

Pakistan cannot really afford to fund the cross border terrorism. Unfortunately for Kashmiris and Pakistanis alike, Pakistan`s army cannot seem to afford to end its patronage for these terrorists either because ``Kashmir banega Pakistan`` has become the fulcrum on which rests the military`s ability to ensure that it continues to be allocated a disproportionate share of the country`s wealth.

pmisra2 #67 : Thank you mr. Pmira2 of India. Sir i have no references. This all i write is lack of sleep induced psyco problems.

I was use to get no sleep at all, but my wife told me to read try reading articles by Yassar H or new incarnation Matno. Its putts me to sleep fast, god bless him. I threaten not hard working lufangas in our hotel if they not improve , i will force them to read YLH articles. You apply once punishment they never show lack of enthuacism. I think FEAR is the key. Only one persisted but then he became mad and as In mad house recently, he just recite some speeches. He just go on shouting, BB,Imram, General shaib, Jinnah, equaqbal, akber .... Zindabad and Mr. M K Gandhi Murdabad. Doctors said he sholld be sent to usa for advanced treatment and its interesting nut case.

This reading for sleep as solved my most if not all problems. Life is getting interesting due to good sleep.

#61 by harimau

Thank you sir for you comments. You are very kind.
Sindhu beer or Bir I mean its same to me as Musulman Alhocol is haram to me.
India will pump water from sindhu to its eastern rivers which were sold to india for 600 million dollars by first self appointed fieldmarshall. Then canals will start south to peninsular india its natural slopes. And they will claim cleverly we can not control those water pumping terrorist and we are against them.

I think it wrong to assume streets have only one directional slope. Some times good and bad done things give the rewards and punishments and results come slowly. My fear is slowly Hindu Ummah is getting powerful and once it starts diverting water it will be devastating than atomic bombs exchanged. Todays men and women easily change geography of rivers. The general stupidity and Mypoic view of Our Army is going to take to water starvation and bombs will not help.

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Nazarhayatkhan Saheb,

I am also interested in your response to Romair at # 68.

My conviction: Indian is waging a declared war (previously, I was of the view that it was an undeclared war) on Pakistan and on Muslims.

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Ironman at # 57:

I have always been claiming that majority of Indians on Chowk struggle with their IQ levels getting into positive digits. You provided yet another evidence of that.

Read my message again. Its not me reporting 25%, but your Government.

Rsridhar at # 56:

``America, of late, has been monitoring the LOC thr` high resolution satellite imagery and has come to the same conclusion independently.``

This is one reason I keep saying that Indians have lost all their faculties to think logically.

Americans can monitor through satellite imagery and find that people (who I have already called terrorists and Pakistani Government calls extremists acting on their own) are crossing into India, but they cannot report that they were doing so under Pakistani patronage, unless these infiltrators were being dropped off at Pakistan side of border by Pakistani military vehicles, or were carrying metal shields over their heads like umbrellas showing Pakistani symbols engraved on them, etc.

I hope you get my message :-)

As regards American confirmations, please recall that they confirmed Saddam`s WMD program too.

A more prudent course of action for our erstwhile Indian friends would be to at least once question their Government as to why not a single terrorist has been arrested alive todate since the enactment of POTO in the Valley or even before it? At least question once why can`t we make at least one ``terrorist`` arrested alive say after starving them in their holed up bunkers in a mosque or through tear gasing.

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pmisra2 #67

{{[quote]
Now they are showing same by naming their submarines `` sindhu Shastra (Arm of sindh), Sindhu beer ( sindi fighter), Sindhu Rakshaka( (protector of Sindh)
[end-quote]

... Needless to say, you will be unable to provide a single factual reference to back it up.}}

Actually Ahmed Madani is right about the submarine names, at least. The Indian Navy has 10 Sindhughosh class (Kilo Type 877 EKM) submarines, which are among its most modern. Their names are Sindhughosh, Sindhuvaj, Sindhuraj, Sindhuvir, Sindhukesari, ... Sindhurakshak, Sindhushastra.

And Madani Sahib may or may not be a factotum in a hotel on Ziauddin Road Karachi (I strongly suspect his persona is a brilliant impersonation), but he is one of the most insightful Pakistanis posting on Chowk. At least according to my mental thinking ...

Interesting letter from Asia Times...

The article [Machiavellian US policy towards Pakistan, Sep 23] by Hussain Khan was really heart-rending. He has got a long list of grievances against the USA. But if the US is Machiavellian, isn`t Pakistan quixotic? Does Khan not know, or [does he want] us to believe otherwise, that Pakistan got nothing in return for its services and help? The USA is known to be a good paymaster for all the services rendered throughout the world and that is the main reason nations fall head over heels to help and serve. Has Pakistan not received billions of dollars in donations, debt writeoffs, free Saber jets, Patton Tanks, F-16s, C-130s, and the list goes on? Even the F-16s which Pakistan is claimed to have paid for were from the money the USA gave to Pakistan. How can Hussain, an economist, ask the USA to be indebted forever by whatever Pakistan did and was paid for? How can the USA espouse Pakistan`s wish to match India`s purchases, which India pays for by cash, by providing Pakistan free, paid by US taxpayers? That is on top of Pakistan being the third-largest recipient of US aid after Israel and Egypt. Wouldn`t Afghanistan demand from the USA to bring it at par with Pakistan so it can stand up to and escape from its ravages? And also some other nations in the neighborhood who also contributed to the ``war against terrorism``. Surely then, the USA`s economic demise will be hastened, as predicted by the same Hussain Khan.
An Avid ATol Reader (Sep 24, `03)