Free Thought is Key to Progress

What does Iqbal`s Sunni-ness has to do with his poetic leanings ?

Why should you point out someone`s sect and start referencing the aa`gaa peechaa` of that
sect whenever you get an opportunity ? Kyoun?

It appears that a little boy aka mr. goody-good is trying very hard to portray a certain impression. It also appears that mr. goody-good likes to portray ``that`` impression at very specific locations. Unfortunately, mr. goody-good ain`t successful in getting his point across. May be, it`s the missing element in the intent :( May be or may be not!

Where did i mention or disparage any other sects in these posts on Iqbal? He was a Sunni himself as anyone who reads his biographies and poetry will attest. that is just fact. As for his pining for Madina that too is a fact. you can read it yourself in his works.

[btw iqbal alayhirahmah also wrote scathingly of the qadianis if you are interested calling them heretics and kafirs?!]

Indeed this world is full of all kinds. The very fact that someone divides Islam based on its sects, and always highlights the sects and makes one seem like holier than the other, is completely distasteful.

ZahraJ # 43

[Where is my ``Thank You`` ?]

I thank thee: lead me on. (Shakespeare, twelfth Night)

HH

why would any Muslim find that offensive? Besides, it is true--if you read the Armaghan i Hijaz (Farsi) it is full of his pining and desires to go to Madina before the end of his life and mingle with the sacred dust there...

#42:

[become a devout and pious traditional Sunni Muslim who loved nothing more than to die in Madina Sharif.]

As a Sunni Muslim, I find the above very offensive. Somehow you always insult the very basis of Islam!

hh:

[you have answered the question yourself.. i didnt have to move a muscle!! ;-)) ]

Where is my ``Thank You`` ?

[well, this is what the orthodox clergy wanted the muslims to believe, that they made him `repent & ccorrect` however, considering that shikwa was written in 1909 and its jawab in 1913, it becomes clear that if the clergy wanted to persecute him, they had ample time. they did make a big issue out of it. but thats about all. ]

Rumors (for or against)aside, I do not think one can write a potent and poignant Jawab under the fear of persecution. Just my two cents.

reg Inquirer

Two points require clarification to avoid the type of mis-construction that may take place-
1. Free thinking and ``Positivity``- Intuition is not directed by ``Positivity``, because that itself is now in question. The distinction is fine- the ``Positivity`` itself may be pre-defined by what it is from the interpretation of religious books and cultural understanding of this term in a community. To accept such constraints to the intuitions is to negate the intuition itself. Positivity would flow from intuition- the correct interpretation of Quaran would be revealed through intuitions- the possibility of a destructive action arising out of intuition is not possible.
2. Free thinking and God- The correct interpretation of the phrase `` Being like God!!`` is not that humans become God himself or ``being God``, the distinction between humans and God is clearly understood and the word ```like`` has been chomped from the meaning of the phrase by somebody who cannot read properly. It is that being a part of God`s creation humans aspire to be closer to its creator by reflecting his glory.

So much for hitting below the belt- a favourite past time of ribald Islamist!! I fail to understand why these guys have to discuss theology all the time???

Hazrat Allama Iqbal rahmatullah alayhi was a great poet and a great Muslim and though he went through different intellectual phases in his life--by the end of it he had rejected most of the Western ideas he espoused earlier and become a devout and pious traditional Sunni Muslim who loved nothing more than to die in Madina Sharif. Indeed the ulama of Ahle Sunnat consider him to have died as a wali--one of the Friends of Allah--ie Saints.

He wrote near the end of his life:

The glare of Western sciences could not confuse my vision,
For the dust of Medinah and Najaf is the collyrium of my eyes.

[ Khaira na kar saka mujhe jalwa e danish e Farang
Surma hai meri aankh ka khaak e Madina o Najaf]


In his farsi poetry especially he wrote of his longing for Madina....Prof. Anne Marie Schimmel, the late German scholar of Islam and expert on Iqbal in her book Gabriel`s Wing on Iqbal writes about this and also in her other books.

may Allah have mercy on him!

This post was written before #39 but somehow it wasnt submitted properly. Pls read before #39

ZahraJ # 32

you have answered the question yourself.. i didnt have to move a muscle!! ;-))

++
it was evident that the Jawab was the result of fear of persecution by the orthodox clergy
++

well, this is what the orthodox clergy wanted the muslims to believe, that they made him `repent & ccorrect` however, considering that shikwa was written in 1909 and its jawab in 1913, it becomes clear that if the clergy wanted to persecute him, they had ample time. they did make a big issue out of it. but thats about all.

jawab-e-shikwa is essentially the other side`s version, and if you understand its real `mafhoom`, you`ll see that jawab is more consistent with the main thrust of iqbal`s poetry, that is, rennaissance, pride and dignity of muslims and the need to rise and reform, rather than bask in their glorious past. thats exactly what god tells the muslims in jawab.

another way of looking at it is that shikwa was written by iqbal the philosopher / rebel / thinker whereas jawab-e-shikwa was written by iqbal the religious scholar, the reformer, a leader of an oppressed and enslaved nation.

Inquirer # 37

when you translate the first and the fourth line of the verse (without the 2nd and 3rd) and try to extract the meaning of the whole verse from that, its no surprise that you arrive at such conclusions!

++
so I took this opportunity to learn more about what the literal meaning of his quatrain is.
++

you need to learn a bit more...

Those who have not participated in
My Perspectives of Islam by Rashid Talib can gain alot from there even on this issue.

In my posting, #5, I confessed that I did not understand what Aazadi-afkar was. But I have often wondered about Iqbal`s character, so I took this opportunity to learn more about what the literal meaning of his quatrain is. My research has indicate to me the following:
afkar = plural of fikr or creation; equivalent to tasaanif
tasaanif = plural of tasniif which means imagination in contast to reality

So what is the quatrain saying?

Aazadi-e-afkar sey haiy unn ki tabahi TR Freedom of creativity leads to doom
Rakhtay naheen jo fikr-o-tadabbar ka saleeqa
Ho fikr agar khaam, tau aazdi-e-afkar
Insaan ko haiwaan bananay ka tareeqa TR Creative freedom leads to mostrosities

So it seems to me that Iqbal`s statement is urging people to follow the path laid by the masjid`s mullahs. Evidently, this was an effort to keep thinking muslims, who potentially were opposed to the division of India, in line of the Divisionists (MAJ &Co).

With exception of Nazarhayatkhan and Temporal, no one has addressed the fundamental error. Oh, I did but I do not count, a Hindu Indian!

Gill made a fundamental error - if he believes in freethinking as he professes and proclaims by his pseudonym- by adducing Iqbal who himself was against free thinking. A poet who had a parallel conversion, like MAJ, from a nationalist to a secessionist. NHK and Montolives have argued about the seeds of communalism practiced by muslims. I state that you need to read Iqbal`s address of 1937 in Allahabad to see how the theoretical foundations of partitions were laid by Iqbal and his ilk.

#34, Ballukhan:
You may be a Ballu but are no Khan. Your statement: ``In essence it [free thinking] is about CEATIVITY and POSSIBILITIES- It is being like God itself!!!!`` The practicing muslim can never accept free thinking then.
I refer you to my posting no. 5`s content about Tulsidas.
Iagree with your definition of attributes of a freethinker except may be about kissing a dolphin! However, there can be a constructive and a destructive free thinking. We are presuming the constructive free thinking in this discussion. Hence we need to retain the role of wisdom in free thinking. Free or otherwise the role of positivity in any thinking can not be overestimated. Thus intuition MUST be guided by the goals of positivity.

What Free- thinking is all about-
Free thinking is about losing your layers of prejudices and letting yourself be guided by your intuitions- It is about relying upon your intuition to arrive at new hypothesis about reality, it is about creating new possible wonderful worlds on the earth, creating wonderful inventions, creating possible state of affairs where love abounds ( Jesus imagined such a world of love), it is about dreaming about the heaven while still on earth, it is about planning to make life better for all at this moment than at some in-definite time in the line of infinity, it is about creating new types of relations which innumerable types of beings on this earth (like kissing a dolphin)- In essence it is about CEATIVITY and POSSIBILITIES- It is being like God itself!!!!