The Children of Abraham Share a Unique Heritage

Naqshbandhi #19

``That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.``

Must?!!! Anything but that.

The conflict in interest between the wife and the mistress never provided the environment to make it a ``must`` even during Abraham`s lifetime.

In fact, Abraham`s progeny of various brands should find it easier to feel closer to ``Hindus and other polytheists`` who were not part of Abraham`s families from wife Sarah and maid servant Hagar that resulted in cruel situations of the Cinderella genre.

http://www.torah.org/projects/genesis/topic6.html

excerpts:

..... God promised Abraham that his own progeny would inherit him. However, he did not promise that Sarah would necessarily be the mother of his child. And so, when it appeared that Sarah would remain barren, she offered to give her servant Hagar to Abraham with the understanding that the child of their union would be considered as Sarah`s and that Hagar would still remain as Sarah`s servant. .....

..... However once Hagar conceived she became contemptuous of Sarah who took forceful steps to put Hagar in her place, whereupon Hagar fled do the desert. .....

..... An angel of God spoke to Sarah, promising her a son for ``He has heard your suffering.`` At the same time Hagar was instructed to return and submit to her mistress.

When Sarah gave birth to Isaac it was clear that only Isaac would inherit his father. After the weaning party for Isaac, Ishmael scoffed. And Sarah once again complained to Abraham and demanded that Ishmael be driven away. Abraham was disturbed, but upon God`s intervention he heeded Sarah and sent Hagar and Ishmael away.

Once again an angel of God spoke to Hagar promising her that Ishmael would become ``a great nation.``

In both instances Sarah had good cause for being disturbed. First Hagar was given to Abraham with the understanding that their offspring would be Sarah`s child to reared under her guidance. Once Hagar disdained Sarah and her position, Sarah realized that it would be impossible for her to raise Ishmael--who at that point was thought to be Abraham`s successor--thus throwing into jeopardy the whole future of Abraham`s mission.

In the second instance when it was already clear that Isaac was Abraham`s true seed, Sarah had a new concern. Ishmael was a scoffer. He was sure to be a negative influence on Isaac in his delicate and crucial formative years. And so, Sarah demanded that Ishmael be banished from their home. Abraham was at first reluctant, but eventually complied with God`s admonition to heed Sarah`s warning.

``That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.``

Nasbandi, don`t feel so close. There is nothing in common between proponents of love and proponents of constant war. Your gig is up.

The Muslims and the People of the Book--Jews and Christians--indeed have a lot in common and Hazrat Ibrahim alayhisalam was a Great Rasool and Apostle of Allah. Indeed every day in our namaz 5 times a day Muslims pray,

``O Allah bless Prophet Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad as you have blessed Prophet Abraham and the Progeny of Prophet Abraham...``

Between them these 3 great religions have been responsible for much of civilisation as we know it today. That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.

#16 tahmed32

The point of objection, oh great thinker, is the use of Abraham as a unifying symbol. Abraham, the first documented idol smasher in the middle-east, is not a symbol that hindus and buddhists view neutrally. Abraham comes across as a narrow minded jerk with some kind of complex perhaps caused by his frustrations and (sexual?) deviance.

How would you feel if I insisted that the hindu goddess Durga was a unifying symbol of all indians?? Or even for all people ! After all, she has this or that fascinating property in hindu tradition! And therefore she can unify hindus, muslims, christians whatever.

I have a feeling that you would be quite blunt in letting me know that I was wrong. Would you not???

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I think such interdenominational meetings are certainly a step forward.

As for Abraham that kaka discusses - wait till you read about Noah and how (per the Bible in Genesis), after the flood was over and he came out, he was found lying drunk and naked by his two sons who put a blanket on him. When he came to, he blamed it on his grandson (Canaan, son of Ham). The Canaanites (considered descendants of Canaan, the bad guy who got his grandad Noah drunk - or so granddad claimed) then had the stuffing knocked out of them by Joshua. And (who else!) Africans got labelled as the descendants of Canaan, thus making it easier to enslave them by Europeans. Arabs needed no such excuses, of course, and went ahead and enslaved Africans for over a thousand years (until the early 19th century by which time the Europeans had figured out that maybe the Africans were not the children of Canaan and so need not be punished for getting poor grandad drunk).

All due respect to all three religions. Just thought I would toss this in to make the following point: so what, kaka sahib? We all know religions have all sorts of childish stuff, unexplained stuff built into them - and whatever the shortcomings, humans have stretched them further for their own benefit. Still, if muslims and jews and christians (and of course, why not also hindus and sikhs and buddhists and any other religions around) can get together to focus on their commonalities - that is a hell of a lot better than them not getting together. The hindu extremists in india who are bent on replacing mosques with temples would be well advised to learn something from the christian and jews who came together as Ras describes.

Here is my guess Kaka is Shankar aka headshrinker. Shankar bhai yeh kaka kab say ban gaye?

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Can any sane man (or group of men) willingly destroy that which feeds them, makes them rich and puts enormous power into their hands?

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Ras:

Thanks for sharing.

There was a good article on Abraham in National Geographic last year. Problem is that all such articles, meets and seminars will only make sense to Jews, Christians and Muslims. Practitioners of other religions may not be able to make any thing out of it. On the contrary, most of them may find Abraham a loathsome character, as indeed many of the posts on board reflect.

Adnan at # 1:

Good point. My submission: Only those will trace their ancestory to Adam who will trace their ancestory (at least spiritually) to Abraham. There will be no increase of people in the net. For example, by going all the way up to Adam, Hindus, Buddhists and others will not include themselves amongst Jews, Christians and Muslims. Also, more information is available on Abraham than on Adam to make research papers and docu-dramas interesting for readers/audience.

:-)

One could of course go back to Adam and Eve in the Bible as the singular most important common denominator of mankind. That way the Hindus, Sikhs, and Papua New Guinea animists could gather together with the Jews, Christians and Moselms. Just imagine what the breaking of the bread would look like under these circumstances.

ActuallyI find these ``Interdenominational`` events little more than Theological masterbation, if even that. All this hand-holding does nothing to furher World Peace, which is something that never will be achieved.

I must say though that I am a bit weary of the claim that wars are over religion. Wars to my sense of History are always over land , wealth and property, not religion although the plunderers invoke religion. It should also be noted the worst wars are between brothers or those in close proximity or kinship. India-Pakistan; Biafra-Nigeria, Japan-China Jew-Palestinian and so on....I hesitate somewhat to mention Jew-Palestinian although it clearly falls into my defintion. Surely this land grab is by secular athetistic Zionists ( from around the world) claiming a phony bibilcal Judaic deed as they plunder and brutally subjugate and treat worse than dogs the Palestinians who are BOTH Moslem AND Christian.

Rather than a cause of the world`s wars, Religion in fact helps check the brutality mankind is all too capable of doing on it`s own with little provocation save desire for wealth, land and property. Religion is the cultural medium that shows mankind at it`s best. In fact it will only be by faithfully adhering to one`s religion that will make the world a better place if only by a little.

Ras,

Through many interacts, I`ve tried to explain this ``patent`` on God that Abraham created (in other threads). It has created a myth, that Abraham alone has the rights to God and the chosen ones. All three faiths in middle east have striven to become more abrahamic.
It used to be that 19th century conservative western historians tried to eyewash the world in believing that Abraham was the first monthiest. Actually I like Karen Armstrong`s definition better... ``Abraham was the world`s first jealous monotheist``. If you don`t like my defn., you going to hell buddy...
The same definiton seems to have had huge impact upon judaism, islam and christianity. So how do you expect these three faiths to be tolerant then. If Abraham,Moses,Jesus,Mohammed could not live in peace with other faiths/cultures around, what do you expect from a common follower of any of these religions?

Adios

The Children of Abraham are the problem, not the solution. Unless they are dealt with the human race isn`t going to see the next century - though that probably isn`t SUCH a bad thing.

# 1, #4, #6

All very good points.

I have a suspicion. My suspicion is that these efforts are not meant to expand the circle of tolerance by learning from the tolerant. These are the efforts by the intolerant to earn `respect` and acceptance of others for their intolerance. The argument the intolerant make is -

yeah, we are intolerant, but since you and I belong to the same family, please accept our intolerance so we can continue our intolerant ways. May be you will see the light as well and become as intolerant as us.

That`s all there is to it.

God ordered Abraham to abandon his son, Ishmael, and Ishmael`s mother, Hagar, in a desolate desert. God also ordered Abraham to ``sacrifice`` his other son, Isaac, by cutting his throat with a knife.

Well, we have all heard that Abraham went ahead and complied with both the orders. And, fortunately, it was an era of miracles. Bizarre as they were, both incidents mercifully had happy endings.

But this is the 21st century - a century in which God is helping those that help themselves instead of trusting in miracles. In fact, a modern day Abraham would most certainly face prosecution for heeding illegal orders, even if they are from God.

We need to revel in the brotherhood/sisterhood of all of mankind. To that end, we need to abandon our contempt for the ``Golden Calf`` of other cultures. The need of the century is to abandon the ``My Prophet/God is bigger than your Prophet/God`` approach to our quest for spiritual fulfillment.

More than Abraham, we need to celebrate the Eve of Africa whose fossilized remains point to a common ancestor for all of mankind. Harmony will rein not when all admirers of Abraham can get together under a tent, but when no ``infidel`` is excluded from such exercises in harmonious coexistence.

With all due respect to the author, I beg to differ with phrases like ``On September 11th a day which we now solemnly commemorate due to the thousands of American lives lost to terrorism.`` Yes lives were lost on Sep 11 but what about the lives that have been lost since Sep 11 in an effort to declare war on terrorism. The Jews have used Holocaust to gain sympathy and then injustly use it to justify their own atrocities in Palestine, and I feel as if America is also following in the footsteps by using Sep 11 to continue its unjustified, oil/global domination, war against ``terrorism.`` There is no point to these interfaith fest unless the attendees take a more active role in politics by writing to their state representatives/senators to end the relgious/racial profiling that has targeted muslims ever since sep 11. These interfaith fest should not only focus on the lives lost in America on dooms day but also on the civilian casualties imposed on citizens of foreign nations.

Sorry, I don`t buy this children of abraham love fest. It`s no better to say that we three are an exclusivist club than saying we and our own kind are an exclusivist club. Instead of playing these games, we need to change our thinking.

One inheritance that the children of Abraham all share is INTOLERANCE towards other systems of thought. Violence towards others, especially polytheists and animists, is justified by the Abraham myth and his destruction of ``idols``.

Fortunately, judaism and christianity have (mostly) moved beyond this type of issue. However, mediaeval christianity and early judaism (pre-500 BC) are full of rules that justify violence, murder and genocide of the ``other``. Islam, which is a more recent descendant of this family, fully participates in this type of thinking and regrettably many ``mainstream`` muslims even today feel that such bigotry and violence towards ``others`` is natural.

Do you plan to address this issue? Or is this a feel good society of people who plan only to compliment each other on being ``cousins``? The millions who were murdered in the name of jesus and allah would like to know: they include the animists of South America, the tribals of Africa and the Buddhists of Afghanistan and so many other cultures that are now extinguished by these exclusivist doctrines.

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ras: why stop at Abraham? why not go all the way upto Adam?