Ras Siddiqui October 6, 2003
#17 Posted by kaka on October 10, 2003 1:37:50 pm
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#18 Posted by pmishra2 on October 10, 2003 10:01:16 pm
#16 tahmed32
The point of objection, oh great thinker, is the use of Abraham as a unifying symbol. Abraham, the first documented idol smasher in the middle-east, is not a symbol that hindus and buddhists view neutrally. Abraham comes across as a narrow minded jerk with some kind of complex perhaps caused by his frustrations and (sexual?) deviance.
How would you feel if I insisted that the hindu goddess Durga was a unifying symbol of all indians?? Or even for all people ! After all, she has this or that fascinating property in hindu tradition! And therefore she can unify hindus, muslims, christians whatever.
I have a feeling that you would be quite blunt in letting me know that I was wrong. Would you not???
The point of objection, oh great thinker, is the use of Abraham as a unifying symbol. Abraham, the first documented idol smasher in the middle-east, is not a symbol that hindus and buddhists view neutrally. Abraham comes across as a narrow minded jerk with some kind of complex perhaps caused by his frustrations and (sexual?) deviance.
How would you feel if I insisted that the hindu goddess Durga was a unifying symbol of all indians?? Or even for all people ! After all, she has this or that fascinating property in hindu tradition! And therefore she can unify hindus, muslims, christians whatever.
I have a feeling that you would be quite blunt in letting me know that I was wrong. Would you not???
#19 Posted by Naqshbandi on October 11, 2003 7:21:48 am
The Muslims and the People of the Book--Jews and Christians--indeed have a lot in common and Hazrat Ibrahim alayhisalam was a Great Rasool and Apostle of Allah. Indeed every day in our namaz 5 times a day Muslims pray,
``O Allah bless Prophet Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad as you have blessed Prophet Abraham and the Progeny of Prophet Abraham...``
Between them these 3 great religions have been responsible for much of civilisation as we know it today. That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.
``O Allah bless Prophet Muhammad and the Progeny of Muhammad as you have blessed Prophet Abraham and the Progeny of Prophet Abraham...``
Between them these 3 great religions have been responsible for much of civilisation as we know it today. That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.
#20 Posted by RationalFaith on October 11, 2003 9:30:12 pm
``That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.``
Nasbandi, don`t feel so close. There is nothing in common between proponents of love and proponents of constant war. Your gig is up.
Nasbandi, don`t feel so close. There is nothing in common between proponents of love and proponents of constant war. Your gig is up.
#21 Posted by nakhok on October 13, 2003 11:04:49 am
Naqshbandhi #19
``That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.``
Must?!!! Anything but that.
The conflict in interest between the wife and the mistress never provided the environment to make it a ``must`` even during Abraham`s lifetime.
In fact, Abraham`s progeny of various brands should find it easier to feel closer to ``Hindus and other polytheists`` who were not part of Abraham`s families from wife Sarah and maid servant Hagar that resulted in cruel situations of the Cinderella genre.
http://www.torah.org/projects/genesis/topic6.html
excerpts:
..... God promised Abraham that his own progeny would inherit him. However, he did not promise that Sarah would necessarily be the mother of his child. And so, when it appeared that Sarah would remain barren, she offered to give her servant Hagar to Abraham with the understanding that the child of their union would be considered as Sarah`s and that Hagar would still remain as Sarah`s servant. .....
..... However once Hagar conceived she became contemptuous of Sarah who took forceful steps to put Hagar in her place, whereupon Hagar fled do the desert. .....
..... An angel of God spoke to Sarah, promising her a son for ``He has heard your suffering.`` At the same time Hagar was instructed to return and submit to her mistress.
When Sarah gave birth to Isaac it was clear that only Isaac would inherit his father. After the weaning party for Isaac, Ishmael scoffed. And Sarah once again complained to Abraham and demanded that Ishmael be driven away. Abraham was disturbed, but upon God`s intervention he heeded Sarah and sent Hagar and Ishmael away.
Once again an angel of God spoke to Hagar promising her that Ishmael would become ``a great nation.``
In both instances Sarah had good cause for being disturbed. First Hagar was given to Abraham with the understanding that their offspring would be Sarah`s child to reared under her guidance. Once Hagar disdained Sarah and her position, Sarah realized that it would be impossible for her to raise Ishmael--who at that point was thought to be Abraham`s successor--thus throwing into jeopardy the whole future of Abraham`s mission.
In the second instance when it was already clear that Isaac was Abraham`s true seed, Sarah had a new concern. Ishmael was a scoffer. He was sure to be a negative influence on Isaac in his delicate and crucial formative years. And so, Sarah demanded that Ishmael be banished from their home. Abraham was at first reluctant, but eventually complied with God`s admonition to heed Sarah`s warning.
``That is why Muslims must feel closer to Jews and Christians than to Hindus and other polytheists.``
Must?!!! Anything but that.
The conflict in interest between the wife and the mistress never provided the environment to make it a ``must`` even during Abraham`s lifetime.
In fact, Abraham`s progeny of various brands should find it easier to feel closer to ``Hindus and other polytheists`` who were not part of Abraham`s families from wife Sarah and maid servant Hagar that resulted in cruel situations of the Cinderella genre.
http://www.torah.org/projects/genesis/topic6.html
excerpts:
..... God promised Abraham that his own progeny would inherit him. However, he did not promise that Sarah would necessarily be the mother of his child. And so, when it appeared that Sarah would remain barren, she offered to give her servant Hagar to Abraham with the understanding that the child of their union would be considered as Sarah`s and that Hagar would still remain as Sarah`s servant. .....
..... However once Hagar conceived she became contemptuous of Sarah who took forceful steps to put Hagar in her place, whereupon Hagar fled do the desert. .....
..... An angel of God spoke to Sarah, promising her a son for ``He has heard your suffering.`` At the same time Hagar was instructed to return and submit to her mistress.
When Sarah gave birth to Isaac it was clear that only Isaac would inherit his father. After the weaning party for Isaac, Ishmael scoffed. And Sarah once again complained to Abraham and demanded that Ishmael be driven away. Abraham was disturbed, but upon God`s intervention he heeded Sarah and sent Hagar and Ishmael away.
Once again an angel of God spoke to Hagar promising her that Ishmael would become ``a great nation.``
In both instances Sarah had good cause for being disturbed. First Hagar was given to Abraham with the understanding that their offspring would be Sarah`s child to reared under her guidance. Once Hagar disdained Sarah and her position, Sarah realized that it would be impossible for her to raise Ishmael--who at that point was thought to be Abraham`s successor--thus throwing into jeopardy the whole future of Abraham`s mission.
In the second instance when it was already clear that Isaac was Abraham`s true seed, Sarah had a new concern. Ishmael was a scoffer. He was sure to be a negative influence on Isaac in his delicate and crucial formative years. And so, Sarah demanded that Ishmael be banished from their home. Abraham was at first reluctant, but eventually complied with God`s admonition to heed Sarah`s warning.
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