Primetime Pope and the Maverick Mother

Farzana,

Good article.
I don`t know why you expect nobel committee or Time magazine committee to be perfect standards. Remember, that there are many people belonging to different faiths doing social service without bringing religion into it. They are hardly recognized by us too. West I can understand, but wy us?
Nobel winners like desmond tutu and teresa are examples when contrasted with Gandhi, of Nobel`s standards.
On the issue of dara singh and his death sentence, there was an interesting article, i forget by whom. It mentioned that large number of newspapers and magazines in India have disproportionately high number of christains in the editorial staff. These people ensured that the murder of a foreigner gets front page coverage for long time. The same day that staines murder took place, ten labourers were killed in communal tension in Himachal, which did not get any coverage. So in essence, justice was ensured for a foreigner (glad that he got it), but a citizen of india, i guess he`s a piece of trash.
We the people of india have given importance to the popes and mother teresa`s at the expense of local do gooders. There are enough homeless and poor people in the mighty west including US, but mother T`s mission would not be interested in such things.
Could you throw some light on journalist culture in indian scenario related to the problems you have m,entioned?

Adios

…a digression…

His Holiness is a good man…heading a religious cartel…a CEO…that said…should not there be a retirement age for people in a position of influence and authority?…the same yardstick there exists for other normal human beings…55, 65, 75 years and then sent packing for a ride into the sunset?…

…or some other universally agreed criteria as:

--walking unaided 100 yards in ten minutes
--speaking lucidly (without a prompt) on a subject pulled out of a pugree for five minutes
--solving simple addition/subtraction (without a calculator) questions in less than ten minutes

...just like here, (TO) the human fraility is recognised and for their protections as well as that of other innocent victims...the senior citizen has to pass a mandatory road test if s/he wants to retain their driving permit beyond a certain age...

..t

Farzana:

``But the Pope and the Prophet cannot be put in the same bracket. An apt comparison would be Christ and the Prophet. ``

Theologically not an apt comparison from a Christian perspective. As far as I know Mohammad was a prophet, ergo a human being. In a theological sense, Christ is the product of immaculate conception, the son of God and a part of the trinity that comprises GOD itself.

Your comparison is apt only WITHIN the environs of Islam which considers Jesus Christ as a Prophet along the lines of Moses and Mohammad. However, Christian theology considers Christ himself as divine. Furthermore, Catholicism considers the Pope as God`s human representative on Earth, therefore comparing the Pope to Mohammad would be apt from their perspective.

The point is that how a religion is viewed within and without, even with the best of intentions, leads to dissonance.

Is this confluence of opinions because of confluence of interests?
Well, I think its unfair!
There are not enough christians around in chowk to protest.
Just think what would have happened if it were abt hindu/muslim leaders.

Good article Farzana. You consistently show that you are a good writer, and have a slightly skeptical worldview. You may not want to be the next Hutchins or Shourie, but you definitely are/can be the next Arundhati Roy.

Mother Teresa served the poor and the sick. Did she do it to tom-tom her piety? It is possible. The one thing most people of any religion can say with certainty is that she did good; that she spread more love than misery. Is that something most people of any religion can say about most holimen and prophets of other religions?


cipram # 16

``First u dive-get knowledge and then indulge in debate,I don``t know much about hindusim so I never discuss it.i know only ``satti`,i hate it.in childhood i saw hindu movies sacrificing young girls to prevent natural flood havoc.is it justified?.``

I will ask you a serious question and hope you will answer it.

Did you see these movies in Pakistan? Were these `Hindu movies` made in India?

Those who believe they are not supposed to like anything I write found this one quite palatable…and they froze over this discovery. Can’t even tell them to chill :) Is there a rule that says you are not supposed to agree with me on every single issue? Next time anyone tells me about my biases, I shall remember…

And thanks PM and urbashi; cipram, the issue is not merely condemnation. That can be done in two sentences.

bharatvaasi and puyu:
I do not wish to be the female version of Christopher Hitchens or aspire to be in the same league as Shourie…I am quite happy to be where I am – in my cocoon, ivory tower or down viper street…

gorabandar:
[Regarding Mother Teresa....to all those she administered to, feed, educated, nurtured, mentored and saved...she is a Saint. As to rice paddy?? Tum pagal
!!!!]
So, my mother is my saint. The paddy field reference was because the vision appeared to Monica Besra there…I did display it prominently in the teaser because I am writing an article not an academic treatise.

Urstruly:
[gorabandar: would that explain why in America only catholic preists are pedophiles?]
Is Michael Jackson a Catholic priest?

temporal:
[... ‘goodness’ and ‘badness’ are all momentary lapses?...
where?]
Since they are momentary and lapses, I cannot remember :) perhaps they have transformed into ‘betterness’ and ‘worseness’…who knows?

Anil:
[``I have never thought of people of god as being perfect; their very holiness is imperfect. It makes them blind to everything else. Besides, it is high time we demanded from our various religions and their wardens some degree of accountability. ``

Amazing insight. Don`t you think that you want to exclude Islam. Otherwise, by definition you include Prophet Muhammad, or you want to include him too.... My little and dangerous knowledge of all religions and more specifically Islam, tells me that it is sacriligious, and punishable by stoning to death, or by burning on stake.... I do not know how the Jews (probably cruification) and the Buddhists (may be self immolation) deal with such cases. I am assuming Dara Singh is a Hindu.]

Now, if one is critical of the mother-in-law, must it follow that the mother too ought to be seen in the same light?! Of course, this statement spells trouble, so let me clarify. I would not wish to exclude any religion. But the Pope and the Prophet cannot be put in the same bracket. An apt comparison would be Christ and the Prophet. It is a fact that we are afraid of taking on holy cows, and it is only natural that what we believe to be sacrosanct shall remain untouched. When Azharuddin got into trouble for signing his name (which happens to be the Prophet’s name) on a pair of shoes, I had objected to such narrow-mindedness. I have not yet been stoned to death…Also, I do not recall any article of mine, here or elsewhere, in which I have blindly supported Islam. My motives are clear: I speak for the community, primarily in my backyard, and sometimes if the effect of its misunderstood global face affects us.

If I take on the Pope, I apply the same standards to imams and shankaracharyas as well. The idea is not to question people’s right to have their beliefs, but to raise queries about the object of their beliefs, especially If they are found wanting. I may have full faith in a gemstone (as indeed I do!), but its flaws do not cause widespread damage. With people in power, religious or otherwise, the consequences can be stupendous.

sigalph235:
[As for the article`s comments on soon to be St. Teresa of Calcutta, well they seem to be a desperate feminist attempt to put a gloss of human fraility on a woman many consider as close to Godliness as mortals can ever get. The ludicrousness of the `sinner` terminology shows how much the author is ignorant of basic Christian doctrine which finds every human to be a sinner (that includes a nun, a prostitute, a banker, anybody else). Another salvo in a last ditch set of attempts to belittle the woman whose very life, humility, and piety was an affront to the moral relativity preached by the radical feminist Left-Liberal movement and the moral superiority preached by Muslim- and Hindu radicals.]

Feminism does not believe in the concept of sin, nor does any modern ideology. That does not make them any less ‘moral’ (I prefer the term ‘ethical’). If everyone is a sinner, then so should Mother T be and even the Pope. Why is one being sainted then? Piety is the business of those who are in that vocation; they are not doing anything out of the ordinary in that respect…as for humility, you will find hundreds of ordinary people doing tremendous work and not tom-tomming their achievements nor are they being put on pedestals. It can at least be said for ‘radical feminists’ that they did not create saints among their lot, and most have been torn to shreds by their own compatriots. This in itself reveals the strength of upholding a part of modern civilisation.

re gora 15

I did not say `government`, I said `cartel` about the Roman Church. Obviously your claims are contested by all the reformed and the Orhtodox Churches (and please none of that stuff about Peter being Pope # 1 etc etc). But I doubt this is the place to have an intra-Christian debate. Suffice to say I know plenty of people who are Catholics but not Roman Catholics. Your own credibility would be enhanced if you do not patronizingly assume that others know nothing of Christianity, the R Church, SAudi policies, or get the info from the so-called Zionist media.

On an aside, one of the major blunders of the current Bishop of Rome (i.e. the Pope) is that he welcomed the mosque in Rome while the Saudis (and many other Muslim countries)continue with their anti-Christian perserve bigotry day in and day out.

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.......... nothing is sacred - not edward said, not the man with the white dunce hat and silly robes, not even mother teresa ............. i like that ............ now if we could only topple those other clowns with clay feet - abraham, jesus, moses, muhammad and imran khan ..................

A few corrections: Yes the Papacy is the oldest continuing government in the world. RE: ``Roman Church`s tradition of blocking intra-Christian communion``....The Roman Church IS the Church founded by Christ THE Christian Church and the present Pope has made the re-unification of Christianity one of His main goals . RE: squelching any internal dissent to the centralized clerical dictatorship of his Curia. Interesting choice of words. The role of the papacy and it`s centralized government is to maintain orthodoxy. There certainly is wide dissent especially in Europe and the United States where the clamoring for homosexual ``marriage`` and the brutal killing of unborn children through abortion define the culture. The Church will not...indeed can not ever change it`s position on these matters. Call this DICTATORSHIP if you will but there are no Vatican police that will knock on your door to set you right. Unlike Islam ( of course depends on the countries) people are not forced to be Catholic they choose to be ( or not to be).
Curious how the Pope had no trouble having a huge Mosque in Rome....Indeed even kissed the Koran.When will the royal whoremongers of Saudi Arabia return the favor or at least allow Christians to wear a crucifix. Don`t hold your breath.
I would suggest using the internet as an educational resource and learning a little about th e``Roman Church and it`s history rather than rely on the Zionist controlled media pap(fiction)about the Inquisition and the Crusades.

The Pope presides over the oldest, most entrenched, and perhaps the corruptest cartel in the world. That does not take away from his own personal contributions to good. Unlike any other Roman pontiff he was able to say a few, if hesitating, words in favor of pluralism and religious liberty. In the dark days of Communist brutality he remained a psychological and practical symbol of resistance to the Commies. To this day, he is the one man who has courage enough to come to America and publicly say that he is for undocumented aliens and against the killing of the unborn (both extremely unpopular positions in the USA).

Yet, he is the pontiff. He continues in the Roman Church`s tradition of blocking intra-Christian communion and of squelching any internal dissent to the centralized clerical dictatorship of his Curia.

As for the article`s comments on soon to be St. Teresa of Calcutta, well they seem to be a desperate feminist attempt to put a gloss of human fraility on a woman many consider as close to Godliness as mortals can ever get. The ludicrousness of the `sinner` terminology shows how much the author is ignorant of basic Christian doctrine which finds every human to be a sinner (that includes a nun, a prostitute, a banker, anybody else). Another salvo in a last ditch set of attempts to belittle the woman whose very life, humility, and piety was an affront to the moral relativity preached by the radical feminist Left-Liberal movement and the moral superiority preached by Muslim- and Hindu radicals.

Dear Farzana:

``I have never thought of people of god as being perfect; their very holiness is imperfect. It makes them blind to everything else. Besides, it is high time we demanded from our various religions and their wardens some degree of accountability. ``

Amazing insight. Don`t you think that you want to exclude Islam. Otherwise, by definition you include Prophet Muhammad, or you want to include him too.... My little and dangerous knowledge of all religions and more specifically Islam, tells me that it is sacriligious, and punishable by stoning to death, or by burning on stake.... I do not know how the Jews (probably cruification) and the Buddhists (may be self immolation) deal with such cases. I am assuming Dara Singh is a Hindu.

ANIL

FV,
Well written critique! Haven`t read the second half, but liked what i saw in the first.
Worth repeating: ``I have never thought of people of god as being perfect; their very holiness is imperfect. It makes them blind to everything else. Besides, it is high time we demanded from our various religions and their wardens some degree of accountability.``

---

gorabandar:
re. pedophile numbers in the church.
You parenthesize the word molested, point out their (the `victims``) greedy motivation, and yet, couldn`t resist playing jury, judge and executioneer of the ``offendors``. What`s up with that? Has everyone here forgotten the Satanic Rites Child Abuse hoaxes of the 80`s and the now heavily discredited Repressed Memory Syndrome that the abuse industry came out with a decade or so ago?
Since the 1980s, self-help authors have claimed that you don`t even have to remember a sexual event to know it occurred. ``If you think you were abused and your life shows the symptoms, then you were,`` wrote Ellen Bass in The Courage to Heal. The symptoms of past molestation listed in such books range from asthma to neglect of one`s teeth.

For a non-hysterical assessment of hte landscape and a look at the numbers, read review in abcnews, hardly the bastion of the Left.

---

excerpt

Indeed, say some psychologists, there may be no such thing as a ``typical`` pedophile, if there is such a thing as a pedophile at all. Qualities by which social scientists and the police have marked him, such as his purported shyness or childhood sexual trauma, do not bear out with statistical significance. More important, sexual contact with a child does not a pedophile make. ``The majority of reported acts of sexual abuse of children are not committed by pedophiles,`` but by men in relationships with adult women and men, said John Money, of Johns Hopkins, a preeminent expert on sexual abnormalities. They are men like Charles Jaynes, who wrote in his journal about a fast crush on a ``beautiful boy`` with ``a lovely tan and crystal-blue eyes`` and in whose car police found literature from the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) but who had an adult girlfriend and was rumored to be lovers with Sicari, who also had a girlfriend.

In other words, there may be nothing fundamental about a person that makes him a ``pedophile.`` So-called pedophiles do not have some genetic, or incurable, disease. Men who desire children can change their behavior to conform with the norms of a society that reviles it. Pedophilia can be renounced; in the medical language we now use to describe this sexual proclivity, it can be ``cured.`` Indeed, contrary to politicians` claims, the recidivism rates of child sex offenders are among the lowest in the criminal population. Analyses of thousands of subjects in hundreds of studies in the United States and Canada have found that about 13 percent of sex offenders are rearrested, compared with 74 percent of all prisoners. With treatment, the numbers are even better. The state of Vermont, for example, reported in 1995 that its reoffense rates after treatment were only 7 percent for pedophiles, 3 percent for incest perpetrators, and 3 percent for those who had committed ``hands-off`` crimes such as exhibitionism.

--end excerpt

I like the way you break the idols just as I liked Arun Shourie at the job.
And you go overboard in your attempts just as Shourie does.
I am not suggesting that you are in the same league as Mr.Shourie.
Put yourself in the place of a leper or a prostitute.
And youd feel a lot better being treated as a human (even with the sinner label) rather than as a wretched outcaste .
Rest of it (the saint ,nobel part) I couldnt agree more