The changing face of America

While we are discussing the world in general than any particular country :) I want to use this board to share my beef with the despicable characters at the Saudi Consulate in NY City. One of the most screwed up Muslim Country! This is one country that makes my blood boil.

Why cannot a Single Muslim Woman perform Umraa on her own? Every time, I have planned to land in S.A in transit to perform Umraa, these manhoos characters have created road-blocks for me. They never let me even join my parents and sister in Jeddah while I was planning my trip from NY to Jeddah in late 90s. The cold and curt voice from Saudi Consulate told me that I could not land in Jeddah without a mehram. Interestingly, I have a lot of family in Jeddah, including my uncle and cousins. It was just that they would not issue me an umraa visa without a mehram accompanying me from the US. What nonsense! That`s what happens when the Muslim Men are allowed to lay out rules and regulations per their understanding. A male mind in general is a weak mind. So if 100 weak minds get together to devise policies, they are going to be weak policies. I wish that country gets more women in power and those female minds provide support to the weak male minds.

On another note: What if I do not want a mehram to accompany me?

Umraa is between me and my God. What is the role of a mehram there?

I am inshallah planning to write a note to the Saudi Consulate stating to wake up and smell some coffee beans. It`s an insult towards a Muslim Woman to deprive her of her basic right to pay respects to her holy places. It makes you feel so bad as if you are incompetent or foolish to be on that journey. The more I think about these discrepancies and unfairness, the more I detest the orthodox clergy and rulers. I wonder why Allah Taa`la let these nuts sit and rule the Holy Places for the Muslims :(.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Aliya, I guess the only way to overcome such treatment is to continually reach out and be yourself -- intelligent, considerate and generous. And of course stand up and fight, if it is oppressive
There is always someone trying to make you the Other. WE do it ourselves.

Temporal:

``today is Oct 9...i am talking in the present... what-if discussions are unrealistic and untenable...what if the French had replied to Tipu in the affirmative?...what if that turncoat Nizam had not sided with the British?...what if....khair...

...all am saying is that Kashmiris` feeling and decisions should have paramountcy over GoP and GoI`s wishes...also let me clarify...i mean all Kashmiris``

No wonder you are called Kofi Annan of Chowk. Your positions are always so morally well fleshed out that I don`t even feel like arguing for fear of feeling like a prick. Bring me a UrsTruly type to fight with anyday. Then at least I can self righteously feel self righteous. :)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

ahmedzai #49 I am not sure if the facts are with you (and Romair) on this one. Agreed, over the past few months there have been a number of newspaper articles expressing skepticism about Pakistan as an ally (it is seen as a ``doubtful ally``). Rather than rejecting such skepticism off-hand as is essentially what Romair and HE and yourself are doing, I would ask the following questions: WHY they are saying this. There are two basic complaints that are expressed in the US press vis-a-vis Pakistan, as follows:

a. That Musharaff is not sincere in curbing terrorism. He is in fact using islamic extremists to maintain his own power in Pakistan by making them the alternative to his rule. And he has very specifically done this by interfering with the last elections to keep the mainstream secular parties out of power, while bringing the religious parties as the main opposition group. In addition, known islamic terrorists are allowed to go free in the country (e.g. the leader of a proclaimed terrorist group).

b. That Pakistan is dragging its feet in sending troops to Iraq. Most recently, someone pointed out how Turkey had no problems agreeing to send 10,000 troops to Iraq a few days ago, while Pakistan is still calling for a UN umbrella. This is more debatable.

On a., as a Pakistani, I in fact share the concern expressed in the western press. The maulvis have come to power thanks to money given to them by one military dictator (zia), and elections tilted in their favor by another (musharaff).

NOWHERE in all this do you find the discrimination of muslims. Indeed: the same columnists (like Hoagland) who write the most frequently about Pakistan being a reluctant ally, are also (as I have seen not just Hoagland, but ultra-right/conservative columnists like George Will) the ones who point to the large secular-minded middle class in Pakistan whose voice is being suppressed.

By ignoring what is actually being said, and simply posting generalities about the anti-pakistan bias of the western press, we pakistanis are our own worst enemies: we complain about mullahs and the military in pakistan, but we also complain when some columnist in the western press expresses the SAME misgivings.

ahmedzai #44 not influential. just with time to kill when i could be doing something useful (like dropping my umpteenth pearl of wisdom on chowk). ;-)

His Excellency, Tauheed and Romair:

Kindly also note that the Western press treats Pakistan (and Pakistanis) as their favorite whipping boy. For example, the following news was published in their newspapers and electronic media, but quickly taken off:

1. Indian companies had collaborated with Iraq on chemical weapons.

2. An overwhelming majority of top 52 most wanted criminals in Iraq were educated in India.

3. An Indian has been caught in selling arms and ammunition to the terrorists.

On the other hand, not a single Pakistani that has been arrested has been proven guilty. All of them are either released or found to be some other nationality. But the intended damage is done for our enemies to capitalize on.

I believe that Pakistani-Americans should seriously consider turning one of their organizations into a pressure group. I agree with Romair whole-heartedly on this one.

His Excellency, Tauheed and Romair:

Kindly also note that the Western press treats Pakistan (and Pakistanis) as their favorite whipping boy. For example, the following news was published in their newspapers and electronic media, but quickly taken off:

1. Indian companies had collaborated with Iraq on chemical weapons.

2. An overwhelming majority of top 52 most wanted criminals in Iraq were educated in India.

3. An Indian has been caught in selling arms and ammunition to the terrorists.

On the other hand, not a single Pakistani that has been arrested has been proven guilty. All of them are either released or found to be some other nationality. But the intended damage is done for our enemies to capitalize on.

I believe that Pakistani-Americans should seriously consider turning one of their organizations into a pressure group. I agree with Romair whole-heartedly on this one.

#38 by Romair

You may be right about Virgin Air incident being just a case of bad customer service.

But I am referring to a general malaise with the American approach to terror. I see a trigger happy approach bordering on paranoia. Instead of making intelligent decisions, the American administration is depending on outdated shoddy intelligence both in the field and behind their desks.

Have you noticed how many people they kill every month in friendly fire? Some times they kill Canadian troops or bomb Afghan wedding parties by mistake. At other times, they kill innocent Afghans presuming them to be Taliban. Just last month they opened fire on Iraqi policemen who were chasing a group of extremist Baathists. In this day and age, such news spreads like wildfire. When people see innocent Iraqis and Afghans losing their limbs, lives and homes because of American mistakes.. they are bound to lose faith in American competence.

Naturally, extremists Al-Qaeda and anti-US Baathists exploit such incidents to recruit followers of their cause.

The INS registration process is by itself not a big deal. Many countries in the world require foreigners to register themselves. But problems arise when the administration appoints incompetent people to carry out their policies.

One of my friends went to UK for a summer break. At NYC airport, he asked the INS officer whether he needed to register. Since my friend had an advanced parole document (you get this when your green card is in process and you need to travel out of US). The INS officer looked at his document and told him that he didn`t need to register because he already had a green card.

On the return journey, this friend was sent back from NYC because he didn`t register. Although he got back after 4 weeks and a little help from US embassy in London, the incident ruined his vacation.

Romair #38

Man you are in serious denial.

here are something you should think over

(a) where were the jihadis trained?

Ans: Pakistan/afghanistan by the Pakistani army and ISI

(b) Where were all the top Al-Qaeda caught so far?

Ans: No not in Afghanistan or NWFP - but in heartland pakistan i.e Multan, Karachi and in Rawalpindi

(c) Where did these guys hide?

Ans: In the houses of army officers (retd) and their relatives with close ties to the jihadi outfits and the ISI

(d) Where was the journalist killed - Daniel

Ans: Pakistan

(e) By whom?

Ans : By an ISI protegy

need one go on.

If after this you still want to have your head up your b***side be our guest.

This is the attitude which you elite scum and military scum had for the last 20 years which has resulted in the bad image for pakistan. I hope you guys go to jahanoom just like you have given us jahanoom these last 20 years.

Romair at # 38:

You have come up with a very good suggestion for Pakistani-Americans. I think that the challenge to Pakistani-Americans in case of ``another attack`` (God forbid) would be serious and have to be proactively addressed.

Let us hope that influential people from us, like Tauheed saheb, is able to contribute positively for establishment of an influential Pak-American Group that could fight for Pakistani-Americans in case `another attack`` (God forbid) takes place.

I am guessing that Tauheed Saheb is an influential member from Pak-American community since I recall that he was present in the gathering of Pakistani-American businessmen with PM Jamali.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Romair #38 It would be foolish to ignore the fact that after 9/11 in particular, there is greater resentment as well as fear of similar or more deadly attacks in future in the west in general and the US in particular. These fears are not illegitimate: when bin laden talks about Islam on TV, it is natural to think that he his mindset is based on something he picked up in the Quran, e.g. And while I am a pakistani muslim myself, I am resentful myself at the animals who attacked innocent people on 9/11.

While you refer suggestions of Arabs being required to carry ID cards, the fact you need to note is that this has not happened yet. Indeed, Arabs themselves have never thought twice of requiring ID cards (15 years ago, in Kuwait, I remember being told in Kuwait that foreigners were afraid to go to pick up their mail without their ID papers with them - since the arab police were known to pick up people).

The fact is that most Pakistanis are only too eager to act as victims in the US. So they tryi to find problems where none exist (as you just did on ID cards). If you really want to feel victimized, all you need is go to Saudi Arabia and have a minor traffic accident (even WITH all your ID cards).

Aliya is male?? methought it was a girl`s name.