The changing face of America

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re AirMarshal 79

For once we agree. Your Hajj in Montreal reminds me of a story about the Libyan dictator (knowing his weird personality, it is porbably true). In the eighties Libyans were banned from Hajj for a couple of years because of Muammar`s antics. In rage, he had asked his Rev Command Council to build a Kabaa in Benghazi so that his pilgrims could do Hajj outside of the reach of the Saudis.

Indeed the SAudi kingdom, its entire society is a bigger LONG term threat than Iran or Iraq. I mean these people teach hatred to young kids and practice slavery and bigotry openly. Like yourself, I`ve never found anyone returning from KSA to have anything but nasty things to say about the bedouins there. Similarly, with one singular exception, I`ve never met a SAudi expatriate with any tahzeeb, taaleem, or tarbiyat.

Don`t worry, the SAudis` time will come too. Right now, it is Syria`s turn. Did you see the House IR committee approved the Syria Accountability Act which the president has finally said he`ll sign. Amen.

ref #76.. Hamid2 . I am stopping, time to head home and home troubles aftre few hours of well earned sleep.

For you satiafaction
: Punjab is full of cultural scene. From Intricate jumping and shouting is methodical way of life, is called ``bhangada`` way of life. Wine and country liquoir are intricate part of ancient culture and ,so much so older preislamic times people used to be buried with wine drums to enjoy in future life.
Punjabi men and women muslim , hindu, Sikhs has great knowledge of chemistry and interest can only be satisfied by tasting of wine. They are educated people and left ancient stupid Punjabi and adopted Urdu from hindia as they are sensetive and picked nice words like all hindi moves from India.

There very sofiscated and THEIR AGRICULTURAL WAY OF LIFE APPEARS AS GREAT CULTURAL DRAMA surpassing all habitatants of all other provinces of land of pure.

In Kingdom of King Mo. ZIA the first the cultural scene reached zenith. For entertainment sinners were flogged by hunter. Good things do not last too long and in air accident King died. Then all cultural collapsed as Hindus armed with TV cables, hindi movies and songs attacked. Presently again cultural scene is rising as King maker a great ``Choudhary`` is trying best. It is so advanced in animal cultural a Buffollow from Lahore animal beauty contest. New kite flying is revived. Even EXPAKs are return to lahore , saying lahore has nightlife first after Mughal time. That is limit. Shift is over. Bye

*79 Romair: i do not comment on your comments as I have no knowledge about your topics of interest.
You are wrong. All BROWN and BLACKS ( NON WHITES) people are not treated well in arabia so there is no discrminiation of any sort.
ONLY ONE COUNTRY IS HELPING PAKISTAN IS SAUDI A. EVERY YEAR SAUDI ARABIA GIVES 1 BILLION DOLLRAS TO PAKISTAN IN TERMS OF SOF( SAUDI OIL FACILITIES). DO EXPAKS CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING IN THAT ORDER? SAUDI ARABIA IS NOT THAT RICH> ITS PERCAPITA INCOME IS LESS THAN ISRAEL( EVEN BEFORE ADDING AMERICAN GIFTS TO ISRAEL). THERE ARE MANY DIRT POORS ALSO , LOOKING FOR JOBS

THEY SAY ITS NOT GOOD TO BITE THE HAND WHICH IS FEEDING YOU.

#70 Hamidm: Thank you for your kind support. That was so very sweet of you! By the way, some of my male cousins who themselves are quite well versed in religion, have no issues with me leading the prayers. To my surprise, one of them even asked me once to do that. His family women were a little taken aback, but he was insistent. Personally, I did not feel comfortable and declined the request. But I must mention that on many Pakistani American Seminars, at the prayer time whenever men disappear for prayers, I always follow them. They are so damn mean that I cannot tell you. They would never let the women know where they are off to and what they are up to? I simply detest them for this hurkat. My 6th sense tracks them. And I always offer my prayers with them. Sometimes, I did find raised eye-brows but who gives a damn. Why should I deprive myself of offering my prayers in a Jamaat? I would kick a man in his rear for being a roadblock there. By the way, the latter step is yet to be performed. I hope that desire gets fulfilled in my lifetime :)

On inheritance: according to the Islamic Law, on a minimum a woman gets 1/2 the share of what a man secures. But it`s on a man on how he wants to divide his assets. So, if my father wants me to inherit all his belongings, I am entitled to getting that. By the way, I am blessed to be the daughter of a darling man, who always views his daughters equal to his son.


# 79 Romair: Both my siblings have performed their Umraas with my parents. And, it does hurt my well being for not being able to do that with my parents. I must mention that I do not have any personal grudge against the Saudis. Some of my family friends are Saudis and they are beyond any doubt gem of human beings. My mother tells me, during my parents` Hajj, how kind and helpful my brother`s best friend(a Saudi)was. I guess it is human nature if someone is kind to your parents, your heart goes out to them. Still, my late pophi would always speak very high of the said gentleman and his family; and my late aunt spent over 40 years of her life in Jeddah.

I`ve my beef against their policies on women. I cannot imagine a strange man(shurtas) touching a woman`s hair and making her cover her hair. How much more can you insult a woman of your own religion ? I mean if I have to seduce a man, I would go somewhere else. I have all the freedom in the world to do so in the land of freedom and choice. Why would I opt to go to the holy land to seduce a man or elope with one? On the same lines, what`s the rationale behind my landing in Jeddah with my mehram? Why cannot my mehram join me at the Jeddah Airport? Or be there to receive me? It does not make any sense.

On top of it, my last phone call to the Saudi Consulate resulted in a very strange response from the man on the other end. He told me that the office was about to close and I should call back in the morning to chat. The expression he used has a different connotation. I do want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but somehow I did not like his way of delivery. I had a genuine question and responding to a question is not chatting. Probably, he used a wrong expression or probably it was a figure of speech and as a jahilae` mutliq I did not get it...whatever. It did not sound right. I did not like it. I am going to complain about that as well.

In that respect, I do feel that my friend`s observation on the prevalent corruption amongst the muslim men may have been an appropriate observation. Living in the West, one takes many things for granted. Most importantly, you are who you are. No game playing and hoodwinking. Many times it`s a shock to comprehend the male attitude even in Pakistan. Let`s not touch another can of worms.

Then they chant about the respect that is granted to the Muslim Women in the Muslim Countries. Must have been a story from the Arabian Nights!

So, what did Prince Qabaa`d Sheheryaa`r tell Shehar`zaa`d?

Sweet dreams, I guess....

ZahraJ #66,
``You are simply sick! Please get yourself treated.``

I thought we decided to give Naqshbandi the benefit of doubt regarding
his stands on various (non)issues. Kya hua ? :)

Ponytail Walae Romair:

[I think Hajj should be shifted to Swizerland or Montreal. Or the Hajj should be online. Virtual Hajj. You log into a site, and carry out the Hajj from the comfort of your home, with some kind of hologrophic technology. I think you may be overemphasising the Umra. It may be better to use the money and take a trip to Barbados. I plan to do that when the Pakistan cricket team tours next.]

Why did you perform your Hajj ? Penance ?

re:#67 by ahmedmadani
Ahmad Madani Sahib,
I always liked your posts. But this particular post was unpleasant for me. So, i have some clarifications.
Indian lobby in US is indeed trying to project Pak as an aggressor and a sponsor of terrorism but it is targetting the dictator and the Military-ISI nexus. It is not targetting the people of Pak. Vajpayee started people to people interactions but Pak`s military dictator did not like it and stopped it. He only wants to talk about Kashmir.

India is not taking away US jobs. US corporate greed is making sure that they transfer a chunk of jobs to India, China etc to make a profit. The bottom line in US corporate world is : profit. Regardless of how this comes about, profit means more money for creating more jobs. Of course the jobs lost to India, China etc have to be replaced by other high end jobs or these jobless workers need to be retrained but Corporate America understands this as a ``ncessary evil``. That is how free market works. During the worst Wall street crash in the 1930s, thousands of American workers actually migrated to USSR for jobs!

So, you are wrong when you say India is taking away their jobs. India has become the natural destination of these jobs because of talent and human skills available in abundance there. If Pakistan were not involved in Jehad, Terrorism (IT in Pakistan means International Terrorism and not Information Technology) and if Pakistan had a good name, these jobs would come to Pak too. If Pak had sued for peace with India, it could have taken advantage of tremendous opportunities that have opened up in that part of the world.

But your military dictator is not interested in any of this. He only wants Kashmir. And he wants US to keep supporting him so he can keep ruling Paksitan like a personal fiefdom. Meanwhile he keeps impressing the local crowd by blasting off Korean made misslies repainted as Shaheen or Ghauri or what not.
Pakistanis must realize the harm this dictator and Army is doing to their country. India is not their enemy. Their own people are their enemy.
Sridhar

ahmedzai #68 I hope you are right about musharaff. i keep my fingers crossed on him. it is true, though i think, that in many muslim countries dictators/kings ``inoculate`` themselves from pressures to democratize by making sure that the only parties opposing them are religious parties which no one (not the middle class within the country, nor the international community) would like to see in power. Mubarak played this game for a long time in Egypt (by keeping the muslim brotherhood boys as the opposition), the same in algeria (at great cost in human life for innocent villagers and others), and in morocco. I surely hope musharaff is not playing the same game, but there does seem to be clear evidence that he ``unleveled`` the field in favor of the religious parties in the last elections. But, maybe you are right here. I guess time will tell whether musharaff is the chap on the white horse who saves pakistan, or just another tinpot general.

As for sending troops to Iraq, there seems to be more sympathy for that. Most of the commentaries I have read or heard in fact criticize Bush for not seeking a UN umbrella and thus make it easy for countries like Pakistan to help in security operations in Iraq. musharaff is sometimes criticized on this account, but not so often and not as strongly.

ZahraJ #various: If it makes you feel any better, there is only one country in the world that I avoid completely, and that is Saudi Arabia (another country that I am now starting to avoid is the USA, since they treat me like an escaped convict, with interviews, and fingerprints and check-ins, everytime I visit them. Even the American immigration officer doing the interview, last time, seemed embarrased by the questions his govt. was making him ask).

I went to Saudi Arabia for Hajj and have hated the place, ever since. And every little stopover I have there, magnifies my dislike for the place and people and environment.

Saudi Arabia is one country, which needs to be reformed. Not Iraq or Iran or anyone else. Saudi Arabia is the center of Islamic problems. Yet it gets VIP treatment by the USA. How ironic.

There is only one country where I have felt racism in my life. And that is Saudi Arabia (the USA is also now marginally racist towards non-citizen Muslims (not including our resident Uncle Toms). Saudis consider all Pakistanis (not just women) to be sub-humans. Every one of my friends who has worked there (including Indians) hates the place. They only go there, because they need to make some money. Though I assume, there must be some Saudi Uncle Toms also (or Uncle Al-Toms).

I think Hajj should be shifted to Swizerland or Montreal. Or the Hajj should be online. Virtual Hajj. You log into a site, and carry out the Hajj from the comfort of your home, with some kind of hologrophic technology. I think you may be overemphasising the Umra. It may be better to use the money and take a trip to Barbados. I plan to do that when the Pakistan cricket team tours next.

#73 Mr. Arjuna: you critc my spelling and thanks for poinyting
Again all readesr note sane=same its writing mistake m replaced by n due to strategic vicinity on type machine. ( in printing industry it is called as collateral damage)

#67 you have not said any thing. I suppose you do not find mistake as no critic bye you.
I will suggest to look towards to content- real stuff- the meat in writing that fluff you look for. Again thank for mistake correct alarm.

SR#59:``after 24 years of living in Ameica, my wife and I are moving and taking our kids to Europe to make a new home there. Europe is not too far behind, but the distance between Western Europe and the United Soviet States of America is still great enough for our personal comfort.``

SR, this is interesting. My wife and I moved to Canada, after a lot of discussions and soul-searching. We were quite happy in the USA. However, we came to the conclusion that the atmosphere is too uncertain for our kids. One more attack and who knows how they may get treated.

I had a close friend in Toronto, whom I used to visit for business reasons, and had become somewhat familiar with the place. He suggested we move also. We are now completely settled. And I can safely say, I have not regretted the decision once. Canada has all the good points of the USA`s domestic system, with none of the foreign policy hangups.

I think people (specially on this site) tend to divide themselves, unnecessarily, into two groups: those who hate America, while still living there. And those, who go to the other extreme, and equate any criticism of America to an unforgivable sin.

The USA and Americans, are like any other country. They have their faults and virtues. And behave in the same manner as everyone else. I don`t think the Americans are any worse than any other people. At the same time, they are not any better either. Their Trade Centers should not be bombed. At the same time, they have no right to bomb other countries either.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a strong strain of self-righteousness that has come to the forefront amongst Americans, now. I don`t think one can blame a small oligarchy for the actions of the USA now. All these actions are supported by the general population. The attack on Iraq was supported by 70% of the population, and by most Democrats. The Democrats are only now criticising it, as a group, since the Republican party is stuck, and Iraq is not going well.

The USA has a hell of a lot to offer the rest of the world. It had (still has?) so much potential to improve the world for good. Yet it seems to completely be following the wrong path, now. Arabs and Americans should be best friends. They need each other`s money and oil respectively.

At the expense of sounding like an anti-Semite, I think Israel excercises far too much influence in the USA, and its lobby is making the USA fight Israel`s wars. This whole situation is now out of control and has a life of its own. And tiny Israel is now the fault line along which the Clash of Civilizations is taking place. All because Israel is unwilling to let go of a tiny piece of land called West Bank.

The American ideologues are now on one side, and the OBL ideologues are on the other side. Both think that their respective sh*t doesn`t stink. Such conflicts can be never ending. Any country in which they are fought, will get destroyed. Afghanistan and Iraq are the first two. Now things seem to be moving to Syria and Iran.

I think the only hope at the moment is the population of Europe. Their opposition to the Iraq war was unprecendented. It was a watershed point in world affairs. They are the only group which has the power to keep the Americans in check. And it is only because of them, that the world is now making sure that Iraq is not destroyed any furthur.

The USA can go in two directions: The Democrats could win the election, and undo the Republicans` policies. I think they would undo them, not because they disagree with them in principal. After all they voted for them. They will undo them to make the Republicans look like failures.

Or the Republicans will win: And the policies will stay in place.

I think people are greatly discounting one point: What happens if another attack occurs? What if this time around, chemical agents are used, or nuclear agents. The Al-Qaeda (or whatever the parent organization is called) has things going in its direction. The more violence there is, of the form of USA vs some Muslim country, the more it has to gain. It can now regroup in Iraq.

Bush has started making sounds about Iran now. Once again, the USA has no threat from Iran. But Israel has a huge threat. From what I have read Iran is five to ten years from making a nuke. If they succeed, the whole power balance of the Middle East will shift. Nukes are Israel`s trump card. It can lauch them at any country in the area. However, what happens if those countries develop a deterence?

I am quite sure Bush would have gone after Iran, had he not gotten stuck in Iraq. Now, it will be interesting to see what he does. What will be even more interesting is whether the Shia clergy will be allowed to form a govt. in Iraq. They will win any democratic election, hands down. If they are not allowed to come into power, then Iraq will remain in a state of imbalance, with the people supporting the Iraqi clergy, and the govt. supporting the USA.

madani,

``Punjab`s cultutral scene is more agricultural than cultural``

................. stop it! you are killing me !

#70: mr hamid 2: you write too abstract.
I think one should not sit on Camel and try to herd folks of sheep.
You are not ``Muslim`` you can use any thing from islamic scriptures.
Religion is not your type thing. You are past-post religion.
Religion and intelligence are opposed except shrewd Brahmin and cunning Mullah and pedophile prist
Religion is thing of heart.
When Christian enter his mosque he takes out hat saying i surrender ti Jesus I am keeping my intelligence down and he keeps his hand on heart. Signifying trimph of heart on brain.
Hindu enters temple keeps out shoes, or brahmin Mullah when does that prayer takes of his upper cloths out of respest, he bows his head. He makes namaskara bowed with his hands palms closed near heart.
Muslim bows down its submission saying I am nothing against allah and his messanger(Pbuh), its total surrender.
You can see symbolic victory of heart on brain or bheja.
Please respect even stupid mentality of religious folks. What is fair is fair. aaaaaaaaaAlso this love business is troubling me, its like religion. I can not stop lufangas catching eyes of little girl in our house hold. I am just tired by stupedity of love and religion business. Bad part is more you suppress more it gets strong. Best hope is let them do love and religion and hopefully they will recover without too much damage. I tried both I could get out of clutches on one. Its all stupidity

Mr. Hamid you had any problem with #67. Arjun is making big show. I say its your way , if you read sane then you are insame. If you read same you are sane.
What is your opinion about that arjun stuff comments
Arjuna I do not call Lafanga as I know he is rich, otherwise i would have.

# 73 Mr. Arjun: I am working hard at night and mistake happens in typing dynamic system.
If you look little carefull god damd m and n are so near.
Manto knows me. Here is not like you, I am working at same time, taking little sleep and making some lazies to work. Sane=same most people can follow.
You are smart but you have problem of attitude. I mean you attitude is it has 3 words ( it contains a,d,and b). I will not like to fight with you as I make money by working not on computers softwaring stuff ok.
You are little hindu punk, you come here to karachi i will give you managers special(50% off) and throw extra goodies like car taking you to Cliffton and visiting Lakhanis McDonalds and some liquid refreshment( not do not tell me but north indians are very fond of liquid refreshments, i serve all types people no difference hindus consume lots of stuff including their women).
Manto has brains he knows topographical mistakes. Sure you make few. I do not read you as you have poisoned mind against all pakistanis including present ;leadership and past leadership of 50 years. You are brought up on hate stuff and bad food in Delhi poor areas. I do not think you live in posh areas of delhi.
I do not critic anybody including you. Please do not start wwar between mw nad YLH(Manto). I have relished ideas of Evil ``chankaya``. I read his book translated in english. He say`` one of best way to discourage enemy and defeat is when he comes for war just absent yourself. and win. I am Punjabi but i hate lahore for stupidity. There is no sofistication of boharas, its just bunch of people forced in modern times. Most Punjabis give ``abuses`` as part of language. If you talk to punjabi and if you do not use vulger words he feels there is problem. Punjab`s cultutral scene is more agricultural than cultural. And it applies to all kafir punjabi hindus or sikhs for that matter. Generally ugly , not clean people while even mohajirs takes bath every day and sindhis are clean as like hindus they take bath every day.
Mr. Arjun please do not provoke me and YLH( manto). We are intelluctual friends though he is history buff i am practical type no airconditions, plumbing, all. Your hotels in Mathura of taj cost 2000 Rs but was ok. I had good chat with manager. See i get friends no problem for Madani even in enemy country. I like every body expect hate throwing people like you. I have read story of Arjuna and Krina and its good. He was nice man I guess, youchange name to Saitan of India. good luck. bye

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts