Of Curiosity, Optimism and Hope
Zarine Habeeb October 13, 2003
#120 Posted by rsridhar on October 21, 2003 9:43:15 pm
re:#117 by gujjubania
You seem to be an admirer of Modi and i hate Modi and his kind of people. So, there is not much in common between you and me.
Two wrongs do not make a right. If killing of innocent people in that fated train by a mob was wrong, the killing of innocent civilians, actively aided by the local police and civic adminstration, with Modi looking the other way, was doubly wrong.
Sridhar
You seem to be an admirer of Modi and i hate Modi and his kind of people. So, there is not much in common between you and me.
Two wrongs do not make a right. If killing of innocent people in that fated train by a mob was wrong, the killing of innocent civilians, actively aided by the local police and civic adminstration, with Modi looking the other way, was doubly wrong.
Sridhar
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#119 Posted by rsridhar on October 21, 2003 9:43:15 pm
re: article 118
``We mingled with the mainstream and what did we get?`` asks Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh. ``Humiliation and rejection. Let these children grow to be proud and confident Muslims first. Only then will they be able to integrate well. Islam teaches us to be tolerant towards other faiths. I guarantee our students will never be instigated to violence by politicians.``
The above sentence is a harbinger of times to come, when muslims in India would find it difficult to integrate with the rest of the society. Instead of studying with the majority and keeping religion personal and teaching religion at home, these schools are doing the very opposite: inculcating a seperate identity for muslim children, an identity that will clash with the larger identity of the majority community. In nutshell, such schools do no good.
Sridhar
``We mingled with the mainstream and what did we get?`` asks Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh. ``Humiliation and rejection. Let these children grow to be proud and confident Muslims first. Only then will they be able to integrate well. Islam teaches us to be tolerant towards other faiths. I guarantee our students will never be instigated to violence by politicians.``
The above sentence is a harbinger of times to come, when muslims in India would find it difficult to integrate with the rest of the society. Instead of studying with the majority and keeping religion personal and teaching religion at home, these schools are doing the very opposite: inculcating a seperate identity for muslim children, an identity that will clash with the larger identity of the majority community. In nutshell, such schools do no good.
Sridhar
#118 Posted by dost_mittar on October 21, 2003 6:26:49 pm
Will these schools produce enlightened leaders for tomorrow`s India?
Back to their roots
Alarmed by the blunting of their identity in mainstream schools, the newer ``Islamic-English`` schools now aim to produce a radically different generation of Muslims: English-speaking, academically on a par with the best, and thoroughly Islamic in conduct and appearance. JYOTI PUNWANI examines this trend.
REUTERS
THEY sing ``A for Allah, B for Bismillah``; run around their classrooms properly covered from head to toe, know Arabic almost as well as they do English, don`t watch TV but are familiar with the most advanced general knowledge books and CDs.
Say ``Salaam Aleikum!`` to the first batch of toddlers to enrol in Mumbai`s four ``Islamic`` English schools started over the last two years. Combining the study of Islam with a regular academic curriculum, these schools aim to produce a radically different generation of Muslims: English-speaking, academically on par with the best, and thoroughly Islamic in conduct and appearance.
Housed on one or sometimes two floors of old buildings in the city`s Muslim quarter, they have yet to acquire a fully qualified staff, run only till Std. II or III, haven`t yet got official recognition, but are already turning away applicants.
Their USP is their irresistible combination of religious and secular education. Most Muslim children start learning the Quran by age seven, and almost all of them end up resenting this additional burden, which cuts into their limited play/rest time, and makes little sense to them. In these new schools, Arabic is taught from nursery, to enable children to understand the Quran instead of merely learning it by rote and then ``putting it away on a shelf, forgotten,`` as Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh puts it. But it wasn`t just this belated homecoming that prompted her to risk starting the Al Mu`minah Girls High School, where her younger daughter joins 124 others in singing ``Be careful little eyes what you see, as Allah is watching you``. The frequent taunts faced by her elder daughter in one of Mumbai`s best-known English schools, brought back bitter memories. ``Why don`t you go to Pakistan?`` was just one of the many jibes Dr. Shaikh grew up with in prestigious Delhi and Lucknow convents.
Gulf-returned and unemployed Mehmood, had a ``burning desire`` to see his youngest daughter as a student of the neighbourhood convent. Despite the principal`s insulting ``Why do you keep coming here? Go to your Muslim schools!`` he paid Rs. 5000 to an ``agent`` for admission. But when his three-year-old had to stand out in the sun as punishment for coming to school with mehndi on her hands after Eid, Mehmood decided it was time to try out the new Islamic school mentioned by the local Imam in his Friday sermon, even if it meant losing a year.
Today, he looks on thrilled as his little ``Dadimaa`` (grandmother) reproves him for indulging in the haraam activity of watching TV (``I`ve explained to her it`s only the news``), and puts on her scarf at the sound of the azaan. Businessman Altaf bhai got rid of his TV years ago, but feels helpless about his convent-going teenaged daughter`s easy familiarity with her male classmates. He tried for a reputed girls` convent, but his appearance — cap, beard and pyjama-kurta — and that of his burqah-clad wife, were enough to reject his application. So when fellow businessman Suhail Shaikh started the first Islamic English school in Mumbai, the Al-Jamia-Tul-Fikriya Islamic School, on one floor of a semi-constructed building, Altaf bhai`s extended family enrolled all their six infants. The school has since moved to a better location, but classes are only till Std. III and cost Rs. 2,000 a month.
However, the joy of being corrected by his five-year-old whenever he deliberately falters over his bedtime prayers is compensation enough for Altaf bhai. The ``Islamic`` meals provided by the school: boiled eggs, milk, fruit and biscuits, eaten seated on the floor in ``Islamic`` style; the burqah-clad teachers (including non-Muslims) and the advanced science and geography textbooks brought out by the school, are a bonus.
A convent product himself, Shaikh neither wanted his son to recite the Christian prayer nor bow before the idol of Saraswati every morning. So he began his own school in his office with his son as his first student, and his Christian secretary the first teacher. Today, the parents of his 200 students willingly comply with his only condition: getting rid of their TV sets.
It`s obvious that the existing English schools have failed to meet the complex needs of today`s Muslims. Those tolerant enough to admit first generation learners, or children of ``typical Muslims``, are either too Westernised, strengthening, rather than countering, the worst effects of mass media on impressionable minds, or are too Hinduised. Rues Shahabuddin Shaikh, founder-principal of Safa English School (a/c classrooms, no songs), ``Our kids in UP know more about the Ramayan than about the Quran.``
Either way, they blunt the Muslim identity, more under siege after Gujarat than ever before. Many Muslims today want a school where their children can be themselves, as can Hindu/Christian children, where ``students are free to express Islamic attitudes and behaviour, proudly and openly``. This promise made by the Islamic International School, comes at Rs. 48,000-plus a year and is not available to parents who don`t wear the hijaab or pray five times, who refuse to learn English or cut off their cable connection.
But while existing English schools can be faulted for making the country`s largest minority feel excluded (most celebrate Diwali and Christmas but not Eid), the new schools run the risk of ghettoising Muslim children. So caught up are they in moulding their clay into ``true Muslims`` for whom education has been ordained as a religious duty, so keen to produce a generation who, while looking unashamedly like ``typical Muslims``, will destroy the stereotype of the ``typical Muslim``, that these schools seem to have forgotten their very raison d` etre: the vast, many-hued world that exists outside their classrooms.
Singing ``Be careful little eyes`` at the Al Mu`minah School, Mumbai.
Only Bangalore`s Oasis International School, the first such school in India, started in 1997, has this world firmly in mind. ``A community`s survival and acceptance in a pluralistic society, depends not only on its ability to preserve its identity, but also to a large extent on its capacity to contribute to society,`` says founder Ayesha Masood. Though catering mainly to Muslims, who are taught Arabic and the Quran, Oasis does not call itself an Islamic school, and has separate value education classes for its non-Muslim children, based on their own scriptures. Of all these schools, Oasis is the only one that has the national anthem sung during the weekly assembly.
Most of the Mumbai schools don`t give more than a day off for Diwali or Christmas, if that, preferring to give their students time off during Ramzan and Eid.
One college lecturer withdrew her child for that reason alone, since their holidays didn`t coincide, and they could not visit grandparents together. Another lawyer-doctor couple withdrew their daughter after three months, not wanting to deprive her of the ``National Geographic`` channel, and worried that she wouldn`t be able to interact with non-Muslims once she reached college.
A Muslim teacher at one of these schools prefers to send her own children to a regular school, because she doesn`t have the time to supplement the learning they would receive in the Islamic school. ``I would have to take them to bookshops for the normal children`s books, and teach them the normal nursery rhymes, so that they don`t stand out among their friends.``
But the schools remain unfazed by such reactions. They believe most of the problems of Indian Muslims arise from not following Islam correctly, and they would be happy if all faiths, including Hindus, ran similar schools for their own children. Intermingling can take place through joint inter-school programmes, they say, and there`s a whole lifetime for kids to meet others. ``Mingling with others, we forgot our own ways,`` laughs Shahabuddin Shaikh.
``We mingled with the mainstream and what did we get?`` asks Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh. ``Humiliation and rejection. Let these children grow to be proud and confident Muslims first. Only then will they be able to integrate well. Islam teaches us to be tolerant towards other faiths. I guarantee our students will never be instigated to violence by politicians.``
``Islam says we are all part of one human family, children of one father and mother. This is what we teach our students,`` points out Suhail Shaikh. ``Our aim is not to build a good Muslim student alone, but a good Indian student.``
Back to their roots
Alarmed by the blunting of their identity in mainstream schools, the newer ``Islamic-English`` schools now aim to produce a radically different generation of Muslims: English-speaking, academically on a par with the best, and thoroughly Islamic in conduct and appearance. JYOTI PUNWANI examines this trend.
REUTERS
THEY sing ``A for Allah, B for Bismillah``; run around their classrooms properly covered from head to toe, know Arabic almost as well as they do English, don`t watch TV but are familiar with the most advanced general knowledge books and CDs.
Say ``Salaam Aleikum!`` to the first batch of toddlers to enrol in Mumbai`s four ``Islamic`` English schools started over the last two years. Combining the study of Islam with a regular academic curriculum, these schools aim to produce a radically different generation of Muslims: English-speaking, academically on par with the best, and thoroughly Islamic in conduct and appearance.
Housed on one or sometimes two floors of old buildings in the city`s Muslim quarter, they have yet to acquire a fully qualified staff, run only till Std. II or III, haven`t yet got official recognition, but are already turning away applicants.
Their USP is their irresistible combination of religious and secular education. Most Muslim children start learning the Quran by age seven, and almost all of them end up resenting this additional burden, which cuts into their limited play/rest time, and makes little sense to them. In these new schools, Arabic is taught from nursery, to enable children to understand the Quran instead of merely learning it by rote and then ``putting it away on a shelf, forgotten,`` as Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh puts it. But it wasn`t just this belated homecoming that prompted her to risk starting the Al Mu`minah Girls High School, where her younger daughter joins 124 others in singing ``Be careful little eyes what you see, as Allah is watching you``. The frequent taunts faced by her elder daughter in one of Mumbai`s best-known English schools, brought back bitter memories. ``Why don`t you go to Pakistan?`` was just one of the many jibes Dr. Shaikh grew up with in prestigious Delhi and Lucknow convents.
Gulf-returned and unemployed Mehmood, had a ``burning desire`` to see his youngest daughter as a student of the neighbourhood convent. Despite the principal`s insulting ``Why do you keep coming here? Go to your Muslim schools!`` he paid Rs. 5000 to an ``agent`` for admission. But when his three-year-old had to stand out in the sun as punishment for coming to school with mehndi on her hands after Eid, Mehmood decided it was time to try out the new Islamic school mentioned by the local Imam in his Friday sermon, even if it meant losing a year.
Today, he looks on thrilled as his little ``Dadimaa`` (grandmother) reproves him for indulging in the haraam activity of watching TV (``I`ve explained to her it`s only the news``), and puts on her scarf at the sound of the azaan. Businessman Altaf bhai got rid of his TV years ago, but feels helpless about his convent-going teenaged daughter`s easy familiarity with her male classmates. He tried for a reputed girls` convent, but his appearance — cap, beard and pyjama-kurta — and that of his burqah-clad wife, were enough to reject his application. So when fellow businessman Suhail Shaikh started the first Islamic English school in Mumbai, the Al-Jamia-Tul-Fikriya Islamic School, on one floor of a semi-constructed building, Altaf bhai`s extended family enrolled all their six infants. The school has since moved to a better location, but classes are only till Std. III and cost Rs. 2,000 a month.
However, the joy of being corrected by his five-year-old whenever he deliberately falters over his bedtime prayers is compensation enough for Altaf bhai. The ``Islamic`` meals provided by the school: boiled eggs, milk, fruit and biscuits, eaten seated on the floor in ``Islamic`` style; the burqah-clad teachers (including non-Muslims) and the advanced science and geography textbooks brought out by the school, are a bonus.
A convent product himself, Shaikh neither wanted his son to recite the Christian prayer nor bow before the idol of Saraswati every morning. So he began his own school in his office with his son as his first student, and his Christian secretary the first teacher. Today, the parents of his 200 students willingly comply with his only condition: getting rid of their TV sets.
It`s obvious that the existing English schools have failed to meet the complex needs of today`s Muslims. Those tolerant enough to admit first generation learners, or children of ``typical Muslims``, are either too Westernised, strengthening, rather than countering, the worst effects of mass media on impressionable minds, or are too Hinduised. Rues Shahabuddin Shaikh, founder-principal of Safa English School (a/c classrooms, no songs), ``Our kids in UP know more about the Ramayan than about the Quran.``
Either way, they blunt the Muslim identity, more under siege after Gujarat than ever before. Many Muslims today want a school where their children can be themselves, as can Hindu/Christian children, where ``students are free to express Islamic attitudes and behaviour, proudly and openly``. This promise made by the Islamic International School, comes at Rs. 48,000-plus a year and is not available to parents who don`t wear the hijaab or pray five times, who refuse to learn English or cut off their cable connection.
But while existing English schools can be faulted for making the country`s largest minority feel excluded (most celebrate Diwali and Christmas but not Eid), the new schools run the risk of ghettoising Muslim children. So caught up are they in moulding their clay into ``true Muslims`` for whom education has been ordained as a religious duty, so keen to produce a generation who, while looking unashamedly like ``typical Muslims``, will destroy the stereotype of the ``typical Muslim``, that these schools seem to have forgotten their very raison d` etre: the vast, many-hued world that exists outside their classrooms.
Singing ``Be careful little eyes`` at the Al Mu`minah School, Mumbai.
Only Bangalore`s Oasis International School, the first such school in India, started in 1997, has this world firmly in mind. ``A community`s survival and acceptance in a pluralistic society, depends not only on its ability to preserve its identity, but also to a large extent on its capacity to contribute to society,`` says founder Ayesha Masood. Though catering mainly to Muslims, who are taught Arabic and the Quran, Oasis does not call itself an Islamic school, and has separate value education classes for its non-Muslim children, based on their own scriptures. Of all these schools, Oasis is the only one that has the national anthem sung during the weekly assembly.
Most of the Mumbai schools don`t give more than a day off for Diwali or Christmas, if that, preferring to give their students time off during Ramzan and Eid.
One college lecturer withdrew her child for that reason alone, since their holidays didn`t coincide, and they could not visit grandparents together. Another lawyer-doctor couple withdrew their daughter after three months, not wanting to deprive her of the ``National Geographic`` channel, and worried that she wouldn`t be able to interact with non-Muslims once she reached college.
A Muslim teacher at one of these schools prefers to send her own children to a regular school, because she doesn`t have the time to supplement the learning they would receive in the Islamic school. ``I would have to take them to bookshops for the normal children`s books, and teach them the normal nursery rhymes, so that they don`t stand out among their friends.``
But the schools remain unfazed by such reactions. They believe most of the problems of Indian Muslims arise from not following Islam correctly, and they would be happy if all faiths, including Hindus, ran similar schools for their own children. Intermingling can take place through joint inter-school programmes, they say, and there`s a whole lifetime for kids to meet others. ``Mingling with others, we forgot our own ways,`` laughs Shahabuddin Shaikh.
``We mingled with the mainstream and what did we get?`` asks Dr. Shehnaz Shaikh. ``Humiliation and rejection. Let these children grow to be proud and confident Muslims first. Only then will they be able to integrate well. Islam teaches us to be tolerant towards other faiths. I guarantee our students will never be instigated to violence by politicians.``
``Islam says we are all part of one human family, children of one father and mother. This is what we teach our students,`` points out Suhail Shaikh. ``Our aim is not to build a good Muslim student alone, but a good Indian student.``
#117 Posted by gujjubania on October 21, 2003 11:23:55 am
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#116 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2003 8:55:15 pm
re: Paki and Paki`s ``mai baap``
Just when Pakis in this forum are trying to convince everyone how much they care for the Indian muslims, their own ``mai baap`` from Saudi Arabia has snubbed them.
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=319591
Just when Pakis in this forum are trying to convince everyone how much they care for the Indian muslims, their own ``mai baap`` from Saudi Arabia has snubbed them.
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=319591
#115 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2003 8:52:46 pm
re:#53 by Urstruly
``And it is the gazillionth time that I am trying to get my point across that sanctity of human life is not a hindu value, or Muslim value, or Nazi value, or Eskimo value......it is a human value.``
Agreed, mullahji.
Now, let me ask you a question. Did not the partition of India on religious basis result in so much bloodshed and loss of human life, which you claim you value so much? Why do you Pakis not accept that as a mistake to begin with? When you look around, you do not see christians, buddhists, jains, sikhs, Parsees in India suffer the trauma of Partition so much as the muslims (mostly North Indian) have. Does this tell you something, my dear mullah?
What was Pakistan meant for? Why are Shias and Sunnis killing each other in your country? Why are Ahmedias not accepted as muslims? If it was a country for muslims, how come India has more muslims than Pak? And how come there is so much sectarian strife in your country?
Ms Habeeb, as i said in my last post, has not been tainted by hatred, so she would not know answers to above questions. If she wants to know the real Pakistan, she needs to seek answer to the above questions. Pakistan is not just another country. At its present form (with Army ruling over the country and mullahs on the rampage), it is India`s ideological enemy.
For a South Indian like me, even the very basic question ``Was Pakistan really necessary?`` has not been answered.
Sridhar
``And it is the gazillionth time that I am trying to get my point across that sanctity of human life is not a hindu value, or Muslim value, or Nazi value, or Eskimo value......it is a human value.``
Agreed, mullahji.
Now, let me ask you a question. Did not the partition of India on religious basis result in so much bloodshed and loss of human life, which you claim you value so much? Why do you Pakis not accept that as a mistake to begin with? When you look around, you do not see christians, buddhists, jains, sikhs, Parsees in India suffer the trauma of Partition so much as the muslims (mostly North Indian) have. Does this tell you something, my dear mullah?
What was Pakistan meant for? Why are Shias and Sunnis killing each other in your country? Why are Ahmedias not accepted as muslims? If it was a country for muslims, how come India has more muslims than Pak? And how come there is so much sectarian strife in your country?
Ms Habeeb, as i said in my last post, has not been tainted by hatred, so she would not know answers to above questions. If she wants to know the real Pakistan, she needs to seek answer to the above questions. Pakistan is not just another country. At its present form (with Army ruling over the country and mullahs on the rampage), it is India`s ideological enemy.
For a South Indian like me, even the very basic question ``Was Pakistan really necessary?`` has not been answered.
Sridhar
#114 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2003 8:52:46 pm
#77 by Urstruly
``...Let me be very blunt here when I tell you that there is nothing more dear to me than my country....``
Mullahji,
Which country are you talking about? I thought you lived in USA. Have they deported you?
Sridhar
``...Let me be very blunt here when I tell you that there is nothing more dear to me than my country....``
Mullahji,
Which country are you talking about? I thought you lived in USA. Have they deported you?
Sridhar
#113 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2003 8:10:22 pm
re:#21 by Urstruly
Dear Mullahji,
The difference between Farzana bibi and Ms Habeeb is this: latter is a South Indian muslim, not yet tainted by the hatred and prejudice that has been instilled into the minds of North Indian muslims like Farzana bibi. Also, she comes from a highly literate state where even the mosques and temples look alike from outside and where a muslim dresses like anyother malayalee. Religion has never been a big issue in Kerala or for that matter in the whole of South India.
Kerala, my dear mullah, is very different from rest of the subcontinent and there is much to learn from people of that state. I feel proud to be called a South Indian along with Ms Habeeb. More power to her.
And why is Kerala so different? Go to the following Url to learn more.
I assure you Mullahji, this article will be a revelation to you. You would soon realise how regressive you Pakis really are.
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2009/stories/20030509000106600.htm
Excerpts:
`` In Kerala, things are quite different. There are few signs of this ``cultural chasm`` that is so apparent in other regions and countries. Hindus, Muslims and Christians appear to live in harmony with each other as communities. Not only is there very little inter-religious rivalry, the different communities even share for their respective religious festivals paraphernalia such as decorated umbrellas, musicians and even elephants. The local Hindu temple priest would suspend his prayer sessions to allow the muezzin at the mosque to be heard, before resuming his amplified chants. All this is accomplished without word or gesture. It is simple common sense here. Why fight if you can cooperate?
In Kerala, Islam is not the `enemy`, it is not even the `difficult one`; it is just another belief system, a different faith, and nothing special. Hindu, Muslim and Christian children and young people easily make friends with each other. They attend school together, play games with each other, and later do business together. Intermarriage is not unknown. Each morning, Muslim fishermen visit the local teashop run by their Hindu neighbour, to chat and exchange stories after a hard night`s work. Christian fishermen are not excluded.
Mosques rise majestically amid lush coconut palms, often perched atop red-and-pink cliffs overlooking the blue waters of the Arabian Sea; facing Mecca. Some mosques are pure white, while others with their pastel shades of pink and blue, contrast with the more traditional Islamic green. All have a mystique, surrounded by lush tropical beauty, unimagined even in the great deserts of Prophet Muhammad`s Arabia. ``
Sridhar
Dear Mullahji,
The difference between Farzana bibi and Ms Habeeb is this: latter is a South Indian muslim, not yet tainted by the hatred and prejudice that has been instilled into the minds of North Indian muslims like Farzana bibi. Also, she comes from a highly literate state where even the mosques and temples look alike from outside and where a muslim dresses like anyother malayalee. Religion has never been a big issue in Kerala or for that matter in the whole of South India.
Kerala, my dear mullah, is very different from rest of the subcontinent and there is much to learn from people of that state. I feel proud to be called a South Indian along with Ms Habeeb. More power to her.
And why is Kerala so different? Go to the following Url to learn more.
I assure you Mullahji, this article will be a revelation to you. You would soon realise how regressive you Pakis really are.
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2009/stories/20030509000106600.htm
Excerpts:
`` In Kerala, things are quite different. There are few signs of this ``cultural chasm`` that is so apparent in other regions and countries. Hindus, Muslims and Christians appear to live in harmony with each other as communities. Not only is there very little inter-religious rivalry, the different communities even share for their respective religious festivals paraphernalia such as decorated umbrellas, musicians and even elephants. The local Hindu temple priest would suspend his prayer sessions to allow the muezzin at the mosque to be heard, before resuming his amplified chants. All this is accomplished without word or gesture. It is simple common sense here. Why fight if you can cooperate?
In Kerala, Islam is not the `enemy`, it is not even the `difficult one`; it is just another belief system, a different faith, and nothing special. Hindu, Muslim and Christian children and young people easily make friends with each other. They attend school together, play games with each other, and later do business together. Intermarriage is not unknown. Each morning, Muslim fishermen visit the local teashop run by their Hindu neighbour, to chat and exchange stories after a hard night`s work. Christian fishermen are not excluded.
Mosques rise majestically amid lush coconut palms, often perched atop red-and-pink cliffs overlooking the blue waters of the Arabian Sea; facing Mecca. Some mosques are pure white, while others with their pastel shades of pink and blue, contrast with the more traditional Islamic green. All have a mystique, surrounded by lush tropical beauty, unimagined even in the great deserts of Prophet Muhammad`s Arabia. ``
Sridhar
#112 Posted by rsridhar on October 20, 2003 8:10:22 pm
re:#38 by rsaxena
``..weren`t you running around with a hard-on after arundhati roy did just that?...``
Man, that was funny!
Sridhar
``..weren`t you running around with a hard-on after arundhati roy did just that?...``
Man, that was funny!
Sridhar
#111 Posted by Fosa on October 17, 2003 9:25:20 pm
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#110 Posted by ZahraJ on October 17, 2003 9:25:19 pm
109
nb: I do not follow all articles and interacts on Chowk. I read this article with interest and it`s a very personal perspective as the article suggests. I am just surprised that why the readers would start dissecting personal perspectives as if someone tried to chant gospel truth in their ears and asked them to follow that truth blindly. Simple...
nb: I do not follow all articles and interacts on Chowk. I read this article with interest and it`s a very personal perspective as the article suggests. I am just surprised that why the readers would start dissecting personal perspectives as if someone tried to chant gospel truth in their ears and asked them to follow that truth blindly. Simple...
#109 Posted by nb on October 17, 2003 7:11:16 am
And,Zahra,this is new???Just when I had thought people were going to leave certain very strange other people alone...
#108 Posted by ZahraJ on October 16, 2003 5:54:32 pm
The strangest part about this article under discussion is that the interactors are tweaking the context.
#107 Posted by ballukhan on October 16, 2003 7:34:40 am
#102 by Fosa on October 15, 2003 11:52am PT
Fosa dear, can you suggest the nominees from PAkistan who represent the Indian Muslims????
I have great respects for UrsTruly for atleast standing up against the Dictators- but he has to expand his vision of humanity and not compartmentalize the world like literal Islamists do into believers/non-believers, idolators/non-idolators because in real life situations I have seen great believers showing utter mis-faith in God in various situations they went through and I have also seen self professed non-idolators behaving like idolators towards ``images``, ``icons`` and ``symbols`` of satan in the form of ``dollars``.
As regards Foza`s delusions about becoming the leading spokesman of muslim ummah let me clarify that Indian muslims have a very clear understanding of PAki muslim elite`s games. They have repeatedly asked the Pakistani muslim elites to refrain from publically voicing concern about their problems and training the ignorant amonst them in subversion and terrorist methods through incitement. The Paki muslims must realize that the Indian Shias or Ahmedis avoid meddling with the dreadful experiments that is going on in Pakistan, the PURELAND. THey just want the guys like Foza and Musharaff to shut up and try to resolve the problems of their own co-religious brothers in the streets and villages of Pakistan, they have repeatedly asked them not to try and act as self appointed spokes-persons to Indian muslims just to score some points in their own domestic territory. Just by disparaging the successful amongst Indian muslims like Nafisa Ali. M.J.Akbar or APJ Kalam because they have come out of the blinkers that TNT-s wants them to put would not make any difference to their standing in the Indian context!!
I hope the message is clear!
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01082002/01082002049.htm
Fosa dear, can you suggest the nominees from PAkistan who represent the Indian Muslims????
I have great respects for UrsTruly for atleast standing up against the Dictators- but he has to expand his vision of humanity and not compartmentalize the world like literal Islamists do into believers/non-believers, idolators/non-idolators because in real life situations I have seen great believers showing utter mis-faith in God in various situations they went through and I have also seen self professed non-idolators behaving like idolators towards ``images``, ``icons`` and ``symbols`` of satan in the form of ``dollars``.
As regards Foza`s delusions about becoming the leading spokesman of muslim ummah let me clarify that Indian muslims have a very clear understanding of PAki muslim elite`s games. They have repeatedly asked the Pakistani muslim elites to refrain from publically voicing concern about their problems and training the ignorant amonst them in subversion and terrorist methods through incitement. The Paki muslims must realize that the Indian Shias or Ahmedis avoid meddling with the dreadful experiments that is going on in Pakistan, the PURELAND. THey just want the guys like Foza and Musharaff to shut up and try to resolve the problems of their own co-religious brothers in the streets and villages of Pakistan, they have repeatedly asked them not to try and act as self appointed spokes-persons to Indian muslims just to score some points in their own domestic territory. Just by disparaging the successful amongst Indian muslims like Nafisa Ali. M.J.Akbar or APJ Kalam because they have come out of the blinkers that TNT-s wants them to put would not make any difference to their standing in the Indian context!!
I hope the message is clear!
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01082002/01082002049.htm
#106 Posted by tahmed32 on October 16, 2003 7:34:24 am
hamidm #91 ``i don`t give a flip about indian muslims and as far as i can recollect i don`t know anyone who does``
we got maudoodi from india, and zia from india and musharaff from india. together they screwed up pakistan. we also got myself (at least my parents) from india, and i fixed it (on chowk).
anyway, i know what you mean. bengalis used to hate west pakistanis before 1971 when we were one country, now they love us. distance makes the heart grow fonder. best for indian muslims to love us from a distance. come to close and they join MQM.
we got maudoodi from india, and zia from india and musharaff from india. together they screwed up pakistan. we also got myself (at least my parents) from india, and i fixed it (on chowk).
anyway, i know what you mean. bengalis used to hate west pakistanis before 1971 when we were one country, now they love us. distance makes the heart grow fonder. best for indian muslims to love us from a distance. come to close and they join MQM.
#105 Posted by ZahraJ on October 15, 2003 7:38:18 pm
[The longer you delay to acknowledge its existence; the longer you keep on giving it a facade of all that good stuff that you call democracy, tolerrance and such other alien concepts, the more malignant it becomes.]
[Happy? ]
Not at all! I was about to analyze a few excerpts from your previous write-up, of which the above were a few lines that made me wonder who wrote those ideas. No offense intended, but I was very disappointed to read what I read. Please go back and review your last post with the above passage. You seem to have misjudged the intellect of your reader :( That was a big disappointment! Being light-hearted/humorous/shararti is one thing. I did not find any traces of the above in your previous post. To give you the benefit of doubt, did you really mean what you wrote in the above post ?
[Lately, every other guy on Chowk needs to be given the benefit of doubt. Disappointing Male Interactors! Haif Sud Haif...]
[Happy? ]
Not at all! I was about to analyze a few excerpts from your previous write-up, of which the above were a few lines that made me wonder who wrote those ideas. No offense intended, but I was very disappointed to read what I read. Please go back and review your last post with the above passage. You seem to have misjudged the intellect of your reader :( That was a big disappointment! Being light-hearted/humorous/shararti is one thing. I did not find any traces of the above in your previous post. To give you the benefit of doubt, did you really mean what you wrote in the above post ?
[Lately, every other guy on Chowk needs to be given the benefit of doubt. Disappointing Male Interactors! Haif Sud Haif...]
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