Of Curiosity, Optimism and Hope

Outstanding! Pleasure to read. More power to you Ms. Habeeb!

Warm regards,

Aamir

Assaalm Aliekum Ms. Habeeb
THanks for an objective approach towards an issue that is mostly dominated by our parochial, biased view. I think in today`s society patriotism has become equated with blind supprot of our native country`s actions/atrocities. Whether your country is engaged in something benefitting to humanity or something destructful, you must support your country or else you are labeled a traitor. Optimism is the first step in working towards progress. It is not the general populace that condemns the other side rather it is the political leaders on both sides that are exploiting a segment of society just for their own persoanl motives. Hopefully, both countries will become better democracies in the future run by humans and not ``politicians.`` thanks for a good article, hope to see more from you in the future.

Well written & a good theme.

I can hazard a few similarities & dissemilarties:

(a) There is no difference between a poor Indian & and a poor Pakistani. Both are just surviving.

(a) There is not much difference between Pakistani intellectuals & Indian intellectuals. Both have approximately the same world view.

(c) There is no difference between the elite & business community of two countries. Maybe the Indian business community is a shade more ethical.

(d) There is no difference in the mentality of Thakurs from India & Chaudhries from Pakistan.

(e) There is no difference in the attitude of bureacracy i.e. police, customs etc. Both are equally bureacratic, corrupt and inefficient.


And now the differences:

(a) The Indian politicians are more seasoned.

(b) Pakistani middle class is more conservative than the Indian Middle class.

(c) The Pakistani religious community is more wide spread and is more intense.

(d) The Pakistani Military is highly politicised as compared to the Indian.

(e) Pakistanis in general are more emtional & politicised.

(f) Pakistanis in general are more spendthrift and consumptive.

(g) Quality of education, in general, is superior in India as compared to Pakistan.

A good article, after a long time. This was very well done.

Hindu, muslim, or christian, south indian or north indian, we are all obsessed with pakistan one way or another which is why we are all hanging out here, essentially a pakistani website. The question i ask myself is why is it that i am more interested in pakistan than, say, bangladesh, nepal or even srilanka. It must be that the conflicts that separate us also bind us together (if somewhat reluctantly). I should also mention that Chowk is proabably a popular hang out because it has evolved into a wonderful medium for everyone to argue, discuss and what not.

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Zarine,

No you do not have to prove ``good`` muslim in India. You were not supposed to do anything. Being a woman and muslim means simply that .... You are Muslim and a Woman...that is just about it. Nothing more... Nothing less.

If any one asks you that question...Do one thing... Look upfront in the eyes and say why the abcdefg you too migrate to NEPAL. Got me?

If you get a vague look ....Well then you are Indian ..... Not Hindoo or Muslim....Man or a woman...Simply Indian.

BTW

Prove this to me.

Optional.

Drive on Mecca and Madina all alone. You will find all the excuses. I know you willl never be able to do it anyway.

Urstruely. Will find all the wrong with his grandama...his mom ... his wife/sister...his daughter. Never with ..tought questions?

Tahmed will say Good question NO answers.

Great Hamidm will write like Charlie,,,,,Remember the shoe... the kid..the great dictator.. the ....... torn shoes... leave it there. No answers.

Sameeerjb will shout and shout and shout.... Well no one will listen. All they will worry. Can I kill this one worm?

Field Marshal Romair will teach us what USA did wrong.. What India should do.... What Jews should do...Never in his life this idiot will tell what Paki Army did wrong. Goshh... Peace Be Upon Them...Paki Army I mean. No Romair. Guy never had honesty to start with.

What is good about Pakistan. We do live in such a confined space. There is a lot. A simple Pakistani is as good or as bad as you and me . Honest, Humane, and perhaps Orrible. Hing loving. Loves his mother/sister/wife/daughter. Loves her Grandpa/father/bro/hubby/son

I too would have loved to go and meet. But I actually did . I know now. BUT....``They`` are simply suckers.

They are afraid. One wrong word and Romair will be far from calling some idiot from Jhang a god`s child. He killed quite a few Shias you know...After ``his`` death there was devine..... Look at their National assemblies ... rampage....and he had 72 (numbers.. numbers... means nothing).

For a change when I know anti Shia was killed I would start thinking mmmmm...how do I protect.... Let us say ummmm a Cinema house owned by a shia. A place of worship....OHHHH he cannot... well Romair will change his domicile. But not his....In Jhang the shia is feudal,,,,,,, loyalty.

Pathetics...Ahmedias are gone .. Now it is Shia`s eh?

Who are next Sindhi`s

I salute thee Romair... I salute thee. Peace be upon your army.

Never find a solution... Always blame ... Always blame .... others


Yogiraj Patil

Nice article. Refreshing change from the usual chest thumping ``patriots`` whose version of reality vis a vis Indo/Pak relations has all the complexity of a primary school text book, which is no doubt where all their ideas come from. This article sensitively explores our shared, yet unique identities, which are not derived in opposition of the ``other``. This is all the more important in todays world where such nuances and subtleties are being steam rolled by the bandwagon of hate mongerers on all sides.

It is a very good analysis from an indian muslim living outside India.But i must say that it is over optimistic view.
My Father migrated from Jallandher, India to Pakistan.He lost two brothers and a sister during migration but he always wish to go back and have good cordial relations with India.Now in my genration grown up after 71,we dont feel such affections.I feel India as neighbour who always try to snub Pakistan.The secular, democratic India is a fraud.It is a Hindu state and muslims there are in a very bad condition.I wonder how an indian muslim can be so optimistic after massecar of muslims in Gujrat.
I wish from the core of my heart to have at least normal relations with india.So the money spent on the defence is spared for welfare projects.

This whole ``Muslims support Pakistan in cricket`` ..the origin lies in a one day international played by India and Pakistan in Srinagar. The crowd there booed the Indian players and flew Pakistani flags. The match was telecast live and seemn by millions of Indians.

This match occured before the Kashmir insurgency, before ``Kashmir`` was known as a site of a proxy war, and much before Indians learnt to distinguish between Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims.

The net affect of watching a few thousand Kashmiri Muslims supporting Pakistan was that it reinforced existing doubts/perceptions of a hundred million odd community.

The author makes a valid point:

``Does patriotism have to be based on negative emotions like enmity``

In a fair world, no. The reality is more complex. Hindus in India have no problem seeing Pakistan as the enemy. Regardless of goodwill that may exist for peace and all, if the government says Pakistan is the enemy, Hindus in general echo that sentiment. Hindus have no attachment to Pakistan in the form of families. Indian Muslims do. They intermarry, have relatives and the like. Hence, an insecure Hindu community sees potential fifth columnists when a Muslim advocates. Not saying it is fair or right. Saying it is true.

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perfect. a definite pleasure to read.

Yes, having one`s patriotism questioned is ridiculous. However, i`m assuming that a vast majority of the people who you would have interacted with would never even think of such stuff, but the oddball comments are the ones that rankle (and justifiably so).

Again, I think the nature of curiosity you mention can be found in a vast majority of Indians, irrespective of religion. Another thing that I have noticed is that many do not talk / think / work towards great relations between india and pakistan is only because they do not think it is realistically possible. A cold-warish ``just do your own thing and let us do ours`` then seems to be the realistic state to be aimed at.
On a pure hypothetical level, taking away the hows and whys, most Indians would welcome wonderful relations with Pakistan (with no aspirations of flying the tricolour over Lahore). I haven`t interacted with Pakistanis in sufficient numbers to the know the predominant common-man`s viewpoint.. i`m guessing it would be no different. Others can educate me.

As an aside, I have also regularly questioned the loyalty of muslims during indo-pak matches - bangladeshi muslims, that is (I am not talking of one group here.. this is over a period of time). Of course, that they were muslims was incidental... that most of them supported Pakistan was not!! The Indian team supporters, while in a minority were by-and-large ardent and vociferous supporters... i now wonder why would that be... was that for our benefit (ie fellow students), is there some other reason, or just pure chance?