The new face of US Warfare
Zeynab Ali October 30, 2003
#59 Posted by SR on November 3, 2003 11:58:35 pm
arjun_m #46 [“…Are you disagreeing ...that growth IS likely… 7.2% and if it`s not… real number will come out eventually..”]
No I am not disputing that the numbers CAN look better than reality and yes, most, though not all, corruption can eventually be exposed.
[“…How the numbers are measured and whether this represents real growth is another matter...urstruly disagrees with the number…anyway it was arrived at...he thinks its one big conspiracy....he isn`t saying 7.2% doesn`t represent real growth...”]
Au contraire! It is absolutely critical to understand the “materials and methods” of any research because that is what makes all the difference in what the numbers really mean. The devil is in the details.
Next time you are at the grocery store follow around that trim looking blond in leotards who is reading the food labels. You will notice that her milk carton label might read “97% fat free,” while her chips packet (the one indulgence she allows herself) may read “no cholesterol.” You will obviously think that she is a stupid blond for having fallen for those labels that sound good but mean absolutely nothing. But you know the details, she does not. She is unaware that a full-fat milk has only 3.5 to 4% fat content any way (ie: 96% to 97% fat free) and that the zero cholesterol (in her chips) is no big deal, because cholesterol is mainly manufactured in the liver from those fats, dietary cholesterol hardly counts.
The point of this seemingly irrelevant example is to drive home the fact that “good looking” numbers can be completely meaningless unless one understands their basic origins. I gave the example, in my previous message, of the government counting over $38 billion in computer equipment spending during second quarter. The government calls these “real dollars.” However, what you and I would think of as real dollars are the dollars that you and I can actually spend in the grocery store or at Walmart. Those dollars the government calls “current dollars.” It just so happens that there were only $6 billion “current dollars” actually spent on computer equipment in the second quarter, but the GDP contained “real dollar” numbers and that number was $38.4 billion. That is a lie worth about $32 billion. But its not considered a lie. Now unless someone, who is not in their right mind like myself, spends their entire time chasing these facts, it is easy to get misled. In my book that means they have been lied to even if the lies were wrapped up in the attractive attire of ‘technical correctness.’
The CNBC commentator will occasionally say that such and such was the “seasonally adjusted” number of this or that, but it could really mislead you if you didn’t know how that number was derived. The classical example of a man whose head is in the freezer and his feet are in the oven will have a mean temperature very close to room temperature right around his waist. But it will not give you any useful information about his condition unless you also look at the variance. CNBS and Investors Business Daily will never give you that variance figure. Those are all buried in the fine print on page 13 of the monthly bulletin of the Treasury Department’s Bureau of This or That Research in the “statistical methodology” section. No one will ever bother to find out. And thus the de facto lies are successful.
“…Give me a trillion dollars, and I can show you a good time also.” Warren Buffet said this in a recent interview, in response to his skeptical view of this economic recovery.
Paul Krugman recently wrote in The New York Times, “… the administration`s tax cuts are, in a fundamental sense, phony, because the government is simply borrowing to make up for the loss of revenue. In 2004, the typical family will pay about $700 less in taxes than it would have without the Bush tax cuts -- but meanwhile, the government will run up about $1,500 in debt on that family`s behalf.”
And so it goes on and on and on, false prosperity, phony financing, rising deficits, anything and everything in an effort to jazz up the economy prior to the 2004 presidential elections.
…SR
No I am not disputing that the numbers CAN look better than reality and yes, most, though not all, corruption can eventually be exposed.
[“…How the numbers are measured and whether this represents real growth is another matter...urstruly disagrees with the number…anyway it was arrived at...he thinks its one big conspiracy....he isn`t saying 7.2% doesn`t represent real growth...”]
Au contraire! It is absolutely critical to understand the “materials and methods” of any research because that is what makes all the difference in what the numbers really mean. The devil is in the details.
Next time you are at the grocery store follow around that trim looking blond in leotards who is reading the food labels. You will notice that her milk carton label might read “97% fat free,” while her chips packet (the one indulgence she allows herself) may read “no cholesterol.” You will obviously think that she is a stupid blond for having fallen for those labels that sound good but mean absolutely nothing. But you know the details, she does not. She is unaware that a full-fat milk has only 3.5 to 4% fat content any way (ie: 96% to 97% fat free) and that the zero cholesterol (in her chips) is no big deal, because cholesterol is mainly manufactured in the liver from those fats, dietary cholesterol hardly counts.
The point of this seemingly irrelevant example is to drive home the fact that “good looking” numbers can be completely meaningless unless one understands their basic origins. I gave the example, in my previous message, of the government counting over $38 billion in computer equipment spending during second quarter. The government calls these “real dollars.” However, what you and I would think of as real dollars are the dollars that you and I can actually spend in the grocery store or at Walmart. Those dollars the government calls “current dollars.” It just so happens that there were only $6 billion “current dollars” actually spent on computer equipment in the second quarter, but the GDP contained “real dollar” numbers and that number was $38.4 billion. That is a lie worth about $32 billion. But its not considered a lie. Now unless someone, who is not in their right mind like myself, spends their entire time chasing these facts, it is easy to get misled. In my book that means they have been lied to even if the lies were wrapped up in the attractive attire of ‘technical correctness.’
The CNBC commentator will occasionally say that such and such was the “seasonally adjusted” number of this or that, but it could really mislead you if you didn’t know how that number was derived. The classical example of a man whose head is in the freezer and his feet are in the oven will have a mean temperature very close to room temperature right around his waist. But it will not give you any useful information about his condition unless you also look at the variance. CNBS and Investors Business Daily will never give you that variance figure. Those are all buried in the fine print on page 13 of the monthly bulletin of the Treasury Department’s Bureau of This or That Research in the “statistical methodology” section. No one will ever bother to find out. And thus the de facto lies are successful.
“…Give me a trillion dollars, and I can show you a good time also.” Warren Buffet said this in a recent interview, in response to his skeptical view of this economic recovery.
Paul Krugman recently wrote in The New York Times, “… the administration`s tax cuts are, in a fundamental sense, phony, because the government is simply borrowing to make up for the loss of revenue. In 2004, the typical family will pay about $700 less in taxes than it would have without the Bush tax cuts -- but meanwhile, the government will run up about $1,500 in debt on that family`s behalf.”
And so it goes on and on and on, false prosperity, phony financing, rising deficits, anything and everything in an effort to jazz up the economy prior to the 2004 presidential elections.
…SR
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#58 Posted by nasah on November 3, 2003 8:09:50 pm
````The enemy in Iraq believes America will run,`` the president said following the death of 18 Americans
The ``enemy in Iraq`` is YOU mr. president -- and you will run in November 2004 -- because YOU are NOT American – you are unAmerican
You have tarnished the image of MY great country all over the world -- you are no patriot mr. president --
you are getting our boys murdered everyday -- for nothing -- in a far away land that never belonged to us -- and will never belong to us – and you dont even shed crocodile tears from your crocodilean eyes for these boys ....
you are no patriotic American -- you are an ugly unAmerican
you have humiliated a proud sovereign country Iraq and its men women and children by violating the sacntity of their homes -- by forcibly entering their homes at the dead of the night while they are sleeping in their beds --
why are you violating their homes -- what right you have to do this to the womenfolks of a proud tradtional people
and you have humiliated the men women and the children of the great United States before the eyes of world -- today the United States thanks to you is regarded as the second most dangerous country to world peace -- by Europe
The ENEMY in Iraq is YOU mr president -- not the Iraqis...
it is THEIR land not yours –- it is their their homes not yours -- YOU ARE AN INTRUDER
WHY ARE WE Americans there -- in a foreign land killing and maiming insulting and abusing the citizenry that did no harm to us --
what RIGHT you have to do this to a poor impoverished foreign country –
how would you `feel` -- if you can `feel` anything -- if foreign soldiers -- entering the homes of mr. wolfowitz, mr. dick cheney, mr. rumsfeld at the dead of the night -- will rudely wake mrs wolfowitz, mrs cheney and mrs rumssfeld and the children from the bed -- and take away mr. wolfowitz, mr cheney and mr rumsfeld with hands bound by plastic behind their backs --
think of it mr. president -- you think the third world people have no dignity no class no huamn rights -- their women have no privacy -- their children are not precious -- they are not being damaged and scarred for life by your atrocious behavior inside and outside their homes --
THINK mr. president -- look around you -- hear the voices -- are you DEAF and BLIND --
and for once -- look at yourself in the mirror mr. president...and you will SEE the real enemy of the Iraqis AND the Americans...
The ENEMY in Iraq is YOU mr president -- not the Iraqis -- not the Americans --
it`s YOU...
#57 Posted by arjun_m on November 3, 2003 3:50:12 pm
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#56 Posted by Romair on November 3, 2003 1:14:45 pm
Interesting results of a survey taken in the EU:
``According to the Eurobarometer poll, based on interviews with 500 people in each of the 15 EU states,`` (www.jang.com.pk)
the countries that pose the biggest threats to world peace, from highest to lowest:
1. Israel
2. USA/Iran/Korea
3. Iraq
4. Afghanistan
5. Pakistan
6. Syria
7. Libya
8. Saudi Arabia
9. China
10. India
11. Russia
12. Somalia
So the US is rated at the same level as the countries, which it placed on the, ``axis of evil.`` And that too, by Europeans, who are the closest allies of the USA. Perhaps some food for thought, for individuals who believe in every US foreign policy action, without asking questions.
``According to the Eurobarometer poll, based on interviews with 500 people in each of the 15 EU states,`` (www.jang.com.pk)
the countries that pose the biggest threats to world peace, from highest to lowest:
1. Israel
2. USA/Iran/Korea
3. Iraq
4. Afghanistan
5. Pakistan
6. Syria
7. Libya
8. Saudi Arabia
9. China
10. India
11. Russia
12. Somalia
So the US is rated at the same level as the countries, which it placed on the, ``axis of evil.`` And that too, by Europeans, who are the closest allies of the USA. Perhaps some food for thought, for individuals who believe in every US foreign policy action, without asking questions.
#55 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 3, 2003 11:10:29 am
arjum_m:
Suffice is to say ``beggers can`t be choosers``. So Pakistan will be better off developing militarily, economically and socially. I believe that we are doing great on military account, economy is rebounding and is being acknowledged by international rating agencies. We are still lagging on social indicators, but these will improve too.
NSEER contains many other Muslim countries. Every body is now criticizing the USA Government on discriminatory laws.
US-India may be having strategic relations, but this will not be at the cost of Pakistan. Similarly China may be getting closer to India and Pakistan to Russia, but at the end of the day, it is economy that dictates the terms.
And enjoy your relations with the USA, as we enjoy ours :-)
My whole point is that the USA`s economy should pick up for the combined good of the whole world (therefore, I disagree with urstruly), Musharraf`s/Jamali`s Government is doing a fine job for Pakistan and surveys are usually responses on perceptions created by media and/or the way surveys are conducted.
Suffice is to say ``beggers can`t be choosers``. So Pakistan will be better off developing militarily, economically and socially. I believe that we are doing great on military account, economy is rebounding and is being acknowledged by international rating agencies. We are still lagging on social indicators, but these will improve too.
NSEER contains many other Muslim countries. Every body is now criticizing the USA Government on discriminatory laws.
US-India may be having strategic relations, but this will not be at the cost of Pakistan. Similarly China may be getting closer to India and Pakistan to Russia, but at the end of the day, it is economy that dictates the terms.
And enjoy your relations with the USA, as we enjoy ours :-)
My whole point is that the USA`s economy should pick up for the combined good of the whole world (therefore, I disagree with urstruly), Musharraf`s/Jamali`s Government is doing a fine job for Pakistan and surveys are usually responses on perceptions created by media and/or the way surveys are conducted.
#54 Posted by stuka on November 3, 2003 8:56:35 am
SR:
Excellent post. I will keep it again. I was talking from a more detail oriented perspective. But as far as a holistic view is concerned, you are correct.
Excellent post. I will keep it again. I was talking from a more detail oriented perspective. But as far as a holistic view is concerned, you are correct.
#52 Posted by nasah on November 2, 2003 7:00:18 pm
The message -- for that blabbering Buffoon of Pentagon -- the ``Unnecessary`` Secretary of Offense -- our Clumsy Rumsy -- who called the death of our 18 precious American Boys -- ``necessary``.... is:
GET OUT
this strange uncouth -- `Washington Weirdo` -- doesn`t derserve to remain our Secretary of Defense.....after that crude offensive comment....
RESIGN
GET OUT
this strange uncouth -- `Washington Weirdo` -- doesn`t derserve to remain our Secretary of Defense.....after that crude offensive comment....
RESIGN
#51 Posted by arjun_m on November 2, 2003 7:00:18 pm
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#50 Posted by arjun_m on November 2, 2003 7:00:18 pm
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#49 Posted by nasah on November 2, 2003 12:05:06 pm
U.S. Helicopter Shot Down; 15 Killed – Rumsfeld says it is ``necessary”
``Why are the Americans here? said Habib Ali, 36, an Iraqi truck driver.
``This is my land, and they came as strangers,`` said Jassim Mohammed, 22.
``In a long, hard war, we`re going to have tragic days, as this is. But they`re necessary” (our Baghdad Bob Rumsy)
If it so ``neccesary`` for poor American Kids to DIE for Rumsfeld diabolical Plan -- why aren`t any of his own kids -- and Bush`s daughters -- dying in Iraq.???
This is what the European relatives of Rumsfeld have to say about the Warmonger:
``We are embarrassed to be related to him,`` (Karin Cecere (nee Rumsfeld), 59
``Why are the Americans here? said Habib Ali, 36, an Iraqi truck driver.
``This is my land, and they came as strangers,`` said Jassim Mohammed, 22.
``In a long, hard war, we`re going to have tragic days, as this is. But they`re necessary” (our Baghdad Bob Rumsy)
If it so ``neccesary`` for poor American Kids to DIE for Rumsfeld diabolical Plan -- why aren`t any of his own kids -- and Bush`s daughters -- dying in Iraq.???
This is what the European relatives of Rumsfeld have to say about the Warmonger:
``We are embarrassed to be related to him,`` (Karin Cecere (nee Rumsfeld), 59
#48 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 2, 2003 12:05:06 pm
Urstruly at # 42:
``I think you are on some sort of funny cigarettes. That`s ok; we will talk when you will start feeling better. ``
Hmmmm. Interesting.
Well you kind of amaze me. You live in the USA and hope that its economy goes down, even though this would mean that Pakistan and Pakistanis will suffer. Also this would mean that Muslims will suffer as frustration increases in the USA.
Also, you get hurt when I denounce extremists like OBL, who have only brought problems on the Muslims and have made a mockery of genuine freedom struggles being waged in Israel and Kashmir.
I have asked you before and I am asking you again. What is your agenda on this website? This I am asking only to know you better. I would like to discuss your agenda on all these affairs.
You can again avoid answering me if you so desire.
``I think you are on some sort of funny cigarettes. That`s ok; we will talk when you will start feeling better. ``
Hmmmm. Interesting.
Well you kind of amaze me. You live in the USA and hope that its economy goes down, even though this would mean that Pakistan and Pakistanis will suffer. Also this would mean that Muslims will suffer as frustration increases in the USA.
Also, you get hurt when I denounce extremists like OBL, who have only brought problems on the Muslims and have made a mockery of genuine freedom struggles being waged in Israel and Kashmir.
I have asked you before and I am asking you again. What is your agenda on this website? This I am asking only to know you better. I would like to discuss your agenda on all these affairs.
You can again avoid answering me if you so desire.
#47 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 2, 2003 12:05:06 pm
arjun_m at 38:
Now ask the same Democrat to give the following guarantees:
1. There will be no terrorist attacks on American soil.
2. there will be no ethnic attack against Muslims in America.
3. There will be no ``terrorist`` attack on American military in Iraq.
4. There will be no terrorist attacks any where in the world on American or World`s interests.
Even though Americans may be questioning Pakistan on cross-border infiltration, they are also not ``isolating`` us. Neither are they buying Indian line of isolating Pakistan. On the contrary, statements are coming in on a regular basis out of White House that Pakistan is their strategic partner.
On American surveys, less said the better. Surveys are responses on perception. Conduct a survey on the matter today in America and the results will be that India`s GNP is 10 times more than Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey or even of Malaysia. Conduct a survey on the matter and the response will be that Malaysian Muslims have killed all the Hindus in Malaysia, whereas in India, Muslims have never been killed, Gujrat, what Gujrat?
The survey of Americans on WMDs of Iraq should have opened your eyes. But it seems you are still copying and pasting your previous posts.
Btw, this survey thing is interesting. Could you please provide me a link for the survey that you mentioned?
Now ask the same Democrat to give the following guarantees:
1. There will be no terrorist attacks on American soil.
2. there will be no ethnic attack against Muslims in America.
3. There will be no ``terrorist`` attack on American military in Iraq.
4. There will be no terrorist attacks any where in the world on American or World`s interests.
Even though Americans may be questioning Pakistan on cross-border infiltration, they are also not ``isolating`` us. Neither are they buying Indian line of isolating Pakistan. On the contrary, statements are coming in on a regular basis out of White House that Pakistan is their strategic partner.
On American surveys, less said the better. Surveys are responses on perception. Conduct a survey on the matter today in America and the results will be that India`s GNP is 10 times more than Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey or even of Malaysia. Conduct a survey on the matter and the response will be that Malaysian Muslims have killed all the Hindus in Malaysia, whereas in India, Muslims have never been killed, Gujrat, what Gujrat?
The survey of Americans on WMDs of Iraq should have opened your eyes. But it seems you are still copying and pasting your previous posts.
Btw, this survey thing is interesting. Could you please provide me a link for the survey that you mentioned?
#46 Posted by arjun_m on November 2, 2003 10:21:16 am
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#45 Posted by harimau on November 2, 2003 10:20:56 am
Ref SR #40
[.... Now in the latest quarter with its miracle number of 7.2%, we see that 41,000 jobs were lost. And this job loss number, by the way is NOT annualized. The annualized number would be 164,000. ......
Lastly, I’d like to add that when you have actual (as opposed to statistically enhanced) growth of 7.2%, there is a palpable energy on the streets. I don’t get out much so maybe I have missed that vibrant throb of economic growth. But do you feel it?]
Well, 41,000 persons did feel the vibrant throb in their backsides! And that is just in the last quarter.
[.... Now in the latest quarter with its miracle number of 7.2%, we see that 41,000 jobs were lost. And this job loss number, by the way is NOT annualized. The annualized number would be 164,000. ......
Lastly, I’d like to add that when you have actual (as opposed to statistically enhanced) growth of 7.2%, there is a palpable energy on the streets. I don’t get out much so maybe I have missed that vibrant throb of economic growth. But do you feel it?]
Well, 41,000 persons did feel the vibrant throb in their backsides! And that is just in the last quarter.
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