The new face of US Warfare
Zeynab Ali October 30, 2003
#59 Posted by SR on November 3, 2003 11:58:35 pm
arjun_m #46 [“…Are you disagreeing ...that growth IS likely… 7.2% and if it`s not… real number will come out eventually..”]
No I am not disputing that the numbers CAN look better than reality and yes, most, though not all, corruption can eventually be exposed.
[“…How the numbers are measured and whether this represents real growth is another matter...urstruly disagrees with the number…anyway it was arrived at...he thinks its one big conspiracy....he isn`t saying 7.2% doesn`t represent real growth...”]
Au contraire! It is absolutely critical to understand the “materials and methods” of any research because that is what makes all the difference in what the numbers really mean. The devil is in the details.
Next time you are at the grocery store follow around that trim looking blond in leotards who is reading the food labels. You will notice that her milk carton label might read “97% fat free,” while her chips packet (the one indulgence she allows herself) may read “no cholesterol.” You will obviously think that she is a stupid blond for having fallen for those labels that sound good but mean absolutely nothing. But you know the details, she does not. She is unaware that a full-fat milk has only 3.5 to 4% fat content any way (ie: 96% to 97% fat free) and that the zero cholesterol (in her chips) is no big deal, because cholesterol is mainly manufactured in the liver from those fats, dietary cholesterol hardly counts.
The point of this seemingly irrelevant example is to drive home the fact that “good looking” numbers can be completely meaningless unless one understands their basic origins. I gave the example, in my previous message, of the government counting over $38 billion in computer equipment spending during second quarter. The government calls these “real dollars.” However, what you and I would think of as real dollars are the dollars that you and I can actually spend in the grocery store or at Walmart. Those dollars the government calls “current dollars.” It just so happens that there were only $6 billion “current dollars” actually spent on computer equipment in the second quarter, but the GDP contained “real dollar” numbers and that number was $38.4 billion. That is a lie worth about $32 billion. But its not considered a lie. Now unless someone, who is not in their right mind like myself, spends their entire time chasing these facts, it is easy to get misled. In my book that means they have been lied to even if the lies were wrapped up in the attractive attire of ‘technical correctness.’
The CNBC commentator will occasionally say that such and such was the “seasonally adjusted” number of this or that, but it could really mislead you if you didn’t know how that number was derived. The classical example of a man whose head is in the freezer and his feet are in the oven will have a mean temperature very close to room temperature right around his waist. But it will not give you any useful information about his condition unless you also look at the variance. CNBS and Investors Business Daily will never give you that variance figure. Those are all buried in the fine print on page 13 of the monthly bulletin of the Treasury Department’s Bureau of This or That Research in the “statistical methodology” section. No one will ever bother to find out. And thus the de facto lies are successful.
“…Give me a trillion dollars, and I can show you a good time also.” Warren Buffet said this in a recent interview, in response to his skeptical view of this economic recovery.
Paul Krugman recently wrote in The New York Times, “… the administration`s tax cuts are, in a fundamental sense, phony, because the government is simply borrowing to make up for the loss of revenue. In 2004, the typical family will pay about $700 less in taxes than it would have without the Bush tax cuts -- but meanwhile, the government will run up about $1,500 in debt on that family`s behalf.”
And so it goes on and on and on, false prosperity, phony financing, rising deficits, anything and everything in an effort to jazz up the economy prior to the 2004 presidential elections.
…SR
No I am not disputing that the numbers CAN look better than reality and yes, most, though not all, corruption can eventually be exposed.
[“…How the numbers are measured and whether this represents real growth is another matter...urstruly disagrees with the number…anyway it was arrived at...he thinks its one big conspiracy....he isn`t saying 7.2% doesn`t represent real growth...”]
Au contraire! It is absolutely critical to understand the “materials and methods” of any research because that is what makes all the difference in what the numbers really mean. The devil is in the details.
Next time you are at the grocery store follow around that trim looking blond in leotards who is reading the food labels. You will notice that her milk carton label might read “97% fat free,” while her chips packet (the one indulgence she allows herself) may read “no cholesterol.” You will obviously think that she is a stupid blond for having fallen for those labels that sound good but mean absolutely nothing. But you know the details, she does not. She is unaware that a full-fat milk has only 3.5 to 4% fat content any way (ie: 96% to 97% fat free) and that the zero cholesterol (in her chips) is no big deal, because cholesterol is mainly manufactured in the liver from those fats, dietary cholesterol hardly counts.
The point of this seemingly irrelevant example is to drive home the fact that “good looking” numbers can be completely meaningless unless one understands their basic origins. I gave the example, in my previous message, of the government counting over $38 billion in computer equipment spending during second quarter. The government calls these “real dollars.” However, what you and I would think of as real dollars are the dollars that you and I can actually spend in the grocery store or at Walmart. Those dollars the government calls “current dollars.” It just so happens that there were only $6 billion “current dollars” actually spent on computer equipment in the second quarter, but the GDP contained “real dollar” numbers and that number was $38.4 billion. That is a lie worth about $32 billion. But its not considered a lie. Now unless someone, who is not in their right mind like myself, spends their entire time chasing these facts, it is easy to get misled. In my book that means they have been lied to even if the lies were wrapped up in the attractive attire of ‘technical correctness.’
The CNBC commentator will occasionally say that such and such was the “seasonally adjusted” number of this or that, but it could really mislead you if you didn’t know how that number was derived. The classical example of a man whose head is in the freezer and his feet are in the oven will have a mean temperature very close to room temperature right around his waist. But it will not give you any useful information about his condition unless you also look at the variance. CNBS and Investors Business Daily will never give you that variance figure. Those are all buried in the fine print on page 13 of the monthly bulletin of the Treasury Department’s Bureau of This or That Research in the “statistical methodology” section. No one will ever bother to find out. And thus the de facto lies are successful.
“…Give me a trillion dollars, and I can show you a good time also.” Warren Buffet said this in a recent interview, in response to his skeptical view of this economic recovery.
Paul Krugman recently wrote in The New York Times, “… the administration`s tax cuts are, in a fundamental sense, phony, because the government is simply borrowing to make up for the loss of revenue. In 2004, the typical family will pay about $700 less in taxes than it would have without the Bush tax cuts -- but meanwhile, the government will run up about $1,500 in debt on that family`s behalf.”
And so it goes on and on and on, false prosperity, phony financing, rising deficits, anything and everything in an effort to jazz up the economy prior to the 2004 presidential elections.
…SR
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#58 Posted by nasah on November 3, 2003 8:09:50 pm
````The enemy in Iraq believes America will run,`` the president said following the death of 18 Americans
The ``enemy in Iraq`` is YOU mr. president -- and you will run in November 2004 -- because YOU are NOT American – you are unAmerican
You have tarnished the image of MY great country all over the world -- you are no patriot mr. president --
you are getting our boys murdered everyday -- for nothing -- in a far away land that never belonged to us -- and will never belong to us – and you dont even shed crocodile tears from your crocodilean eyes for these boys ....
you are no patriotic American -- you are an ugly unAmerican
you have humiliated a proud sovereign country Iraq and its men women and children by violating the sacntity of their homes -- by forcibly entering their homes at the dead of the night while they are sleeping in their beds --
why are you violating their homes -- what right you have to do this to the womenfolks of a proud tradtional people
and you have humiliated the men women and the children of the great United States before the eyes of world -- today the United States thanks to you is regarded as the second most dangerous country to world peace -- by Europe
The ENEMY in Iraq is YOU mr president -- not the Iraqis...
it is THEIR land not yours –- it is their their homes not yours -- YOU ARE AN INTRUDER
WHY ARE WE Americans there -- in a foreign land killing and maiming insulting and abusing the citizenry that did no harm to us --
what RIGHT you have to do this to a poor impoverished foreign country –
how would you `feel` -- if you can `feel` anything -- if foreign soldiers -- entering the homes of mr. wolfowitz, mr. dick cheney, mr. rumsfeld at the dead of the night -- will rudely wake mrs wolfowitz, mrs cheney and mrs rumssfeld and the children from the bed -- and take away mr. wolfowitz, mr cheney and mr rumsfeld with hands bound by plastic behind their backs --
think of it mr. president -- you think the third world people have no dignity no class no huamn rights -- their women have no privacy -- their children are not precious -- they are not being damaged and scarred for life by your atrocious behavior inside and outside their homes --
THINK mr. president -- look around you -- hear the voices -- are you DEAF and BLIND --
and for once -- look at yourself in the mirror mr. president...and you will SEE the real enemy of the Iraqis AND the Americans...
The ENEMY in Iraq is YOU mr president -- not the Iraqis -- not the Americans --
it`s YOU...
#57 Posted by arjun_m on November 3, 2003 3:50:12 pm
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#56 Posted by Romair on November 3, 2003 1:14:45 pm
Interesting results of a survey taken in the EU:
``According to the Eurobarometer poll, based on interviews with 500 people in each of the 15 EU states,`` (www.jang.com.pk)
the countries that pose the biggest threats to world peace, from highest to lowest:
1. Israel
2. USA/Iran/Korea
3. Iraq
4. Afghanistan
5. Pakistan
6. Syria
7. Libya
8. Saudi Arabia
9. China
10. India
11. Russia
12. Somalia
So the US is rated at the same level as the countries, which it placed on the, ``axis of evil.`` And that too, by Europeans, who are the closest allies of the USA. Perhaps some food for thought, for individuals who believe in every US foreign policy action, without asking questions.
``According to the Eurobarometer poll, based on interviews with 500 people in each of the 15 EU states,`` (www.jang.com.pk)
the countries that pose the biggest threats to world peace, from highest to lowest:
1. Israel
2. USA/Iran/Korea
3. Iraq
4. Afghanistan
5. Pakistan
6. Syria
7. Libya
8. Saudi Arabia
9. China
10. India
11. Russia
12. Somalia
So the US is rated at the same level as the countries, which it placed on the, ``axis of evil.`` And that too, by Europeans, who are the closest allies of the USA. Perhaps some food for thought, for individuals who believe in every US foreign policy action, without asking questions.
#55 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 3, 2003 11:10:29 am
arjum_m:
Suffice is to say ``beggers can`t be choosers``. So Pakistan will be better off developing militarily, economically and socially. I believe that we are doing great on military account, economy is rebounding and is being acknowledged by international rating agencies. We are still lagging on social indicators, but these will improve too.
NSEER contains many other Muslim countries. Every body is now criticizing the USA Government on discriminatory laws.
US-India may be having strategic relations, but this will not be at the cost of Pakistan. Similarly China may be getting closer to India and Pakistan to Russia, but at the end of the day, it is economy that dictates the terms.
And enjoy your relations with the USA, as we enjoy ours :-)
My whole point is that the USA`s economy should pick up for the combined good of the whole world (therefore, I disagree with urstruly), Musharraf`s/Jamali`s Government is doing a fine job for Pakistan and surveys are usually responses on perceptions created by media and/or the way surveys are conducted.
Suffice is to say ``beggers can`t be choosers``. So Pakistan will be better off developing militarily, economically and socially. I believe that we are doing great on military account, economy is rebounding and is being acknowledged by international rating agencies. We are still lagging on social indicators, but these will improve too.
NSEER contains many other Muslim countries. Every body is now criticizing the USA Government on discriminatory laws.
US-India may be having strategic relations, but this will not be at the cost of Pakistan. Similarly China may be getting closer to India and Pakistan to Russia, but at the end of the day, it is economy that dictates the terms.
And enjoy your relations with the USA, as we enjoy ours :-)
My whole point is that the USA`s economy should pick up for the combined good of the whole world (therefore, I disagree with urstruly), Musharraf`s/Jamali`s Government is doing a fine job for Pakistan and surveys are usually responses on perceptions created by media and/or the way surveys are conducted.
#54 Posted by stuka on November 3, 2003 8:56:35 am
SR:
Excellent post. I will keep it again. I was talking from a more detail oriented perspective. But as far as a holistic view is concerned, you are correct.
Excellent post. I will keep it again. I was talking from a more detail oriented perspective. But as far as a holistic view is concerned, you are correct.
#52 Posted by nasah on November 2, 2003 7:00:18 pm
The message -- for that blabbering Buffoon of Pentagon -- the ``Unnecessary`` Secretary of Offense -- our Clumsy Rumsy -- who called the death of our 18 precious American Boys -- ``necessary``.... is:
GET OUT
this strange uncouth -- `Washington Weirdo` -- doesn`t derserve to remain our Secretary of Defense.....after that crude offensive comment....
RESIGN
GET OUT
this strange uncouth -- `Washington Weirdo` -- doesn`t derserve to remain our Secretary of Defense.....after that crude offensive comment....
RESIGN
#51 Posted by arjun_m on November 2, 2003 7:00:18 pm
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#50 Posted by arjun_m on November 2, 2003 7:00:18 pm
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#49 Posted by nasah on November 2, 2003 12:05:06 pm
U.S. Helicopter Shot Down; 15 Killed – Rumsfeld says it is ``necessary”
``Why are the Americans here? said Habib Ali, 36, an Iraqi truck driver.
``This is my land, and they came as strangers,`` said Jassim Mohammed, 22.
``In a long, hard war, we`re going to have tragic days, as this is. But they`re necessary” (our Baghdad Bob Rumsy)
If it so ``neccesary`` for poor American Kids to DIE for Rumsfeld diabolical Plan -- why aren`t any of his own kids -- and Bush`s daughters -- dying in Iraq.???
This is what the European relatives of Rumsfeld have to say about the Warmonger:
``We are embarrassed to be related to him,`` (Karin Cecere (nee Rumsfeld), 59
``Why are the Americans here? said Habib Ali, 36, an Iraqi truck driver.
``This is my land, and they came as strangers,`` said Jassim Mohammed, 22.
``In a long, hard war, we`re going to have tragic days, as this is. But they`re necessary” (our Baghdad Bob Rumsy)
If it so ``neccesary`` for poor American Kids to DIE for Rumsfeld diabolical Plan -- why aren`t any of his own kids -- and Bush`s daughters -- dying in Iraq.???
This is what the European relatives of Rumsfeld have to say about the Warmonger:
``We are embarrassed to be related to him,`` (Karin Cecere (nee Rumsfeld), 59
#48 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 2, 2003 12:05:06 pm
Urstruly at # 42:
``I think you are on some sort of funny cigarettes. That`s ok; we will talk when you will start feeling better. ``
Hmmmm. Interesting.
Well you kind of amaze me. You live in the USA and hope that its economy goes down, even though this would mean that Pakistan and Pakistanis will suffer. Also this would mean that Muslims will suffer as frustration increases in the USA.
Also, you get hurt when I denounce extremists like OBL, who have only brought problems on the Muslims and have made a mockery of genuine freedom struggles being waged in Israel and Kashmir.
I have asked you before and I am asking you again. What is your agenda on this website? This I am asking only to know you better. I would like to discuss your agenda on all these affairs.
You can again avoid answering me if you so desire.
``I think you are on some sort of funny cigarettes. That`s ok; we will talk when you will start feeling better. ``
Hmmmm. Interesting.
Well you kind of amaze me. You live in the USA and hope that its economy goes down, even though this would mean that Pakistan and Pakistanis will suffer. Also this would mean that Muslims will suffer as frustration increases in the USA.
Also, you get hurt when I denounce extremists like OBL, who have only brought problems on the Muslims and have made a mockery of genuine freedom struggles being waged in Israel and Kashmir.
I have asked you before and I am asking you again. What is your agenda on this website? This I am asking only to know you better. I would like to discuss your agenda on all these affairs.
You can again avoid answering me if you so desire.
#47 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 2, 2003 12:05:06 pm
arjun_m at 38:
Now ask the same Democrat to give the following guarantees:
1. There will be no terrorist attacks on American soil.
2. there will be no ethnic attack against Muslims in America.
3. There will be no ``terrorist`` attack on American military in Iraq.
4. There will be no terrorist attacks any where in the world on American or World`s interests.
Even though Americans may be questioning Pakistan on cross-border infiltration, they are also not ``isolating`` us. Neither are they buying Indian line of isolating Pakistan. On the contrary, statements are coming in on a regular basis out of White House that Pakistan is their strategic partner.
On American surveys, less said the better. Surveys are responses on perception. Conduct a survey on the matter today in America and the results will be that India`s GNP is 10 times more than Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey or even of Malaysia. Conduct a survey on the matter and the response will be that Malaysian Muslims have killed all the Hindus in Malaysia, whereas in India, Muslims have never been killed, Gujrat, what Gujrat?
The survey of Americans on WMDs of Iraq should have opened your eyes. But it seems you are still copying and pasting your previous posts.
Btw, this survey thing is interesting. Could you please provide me a link for the survey that you mentioned?
Now ask the same Democrat to give the following guarantees:
1. There will be no terrorist attacks on American soil.
2. there will be no ethnic attack against Muslims in America.
3. There will be no ``terrorist`` attack on American military in Iraq.
4. There will be no terrorist attacks any where in the world on American or World`s interests.
Even though Americans may be questioning Pakistan on cross-border infiltration, they are also not ``isolating`` us. Neither are they buying Indian line of isolating Pakistan. On the contrary, statements are coming in on a regular basis out of White House that Pakistan is their strategic partner.
On American surveys, less said the better. Surveys are responses on perception. Conduct a survey on the matter today in America and the results will be that India`s GNP is 10 times more than Pakistan, Egypt, Turkey or even of Malaysia. Conduct a survey on the matter and the response will be that Malaysian Muslims have killed all the Hindus in Malaysia, whereas in India, Muslims have never been killed, Gujrat, what Gujrat?
The survey of Americans on WMDs of Iraq should have opened your eyes. But it seems you are still copying and pasting your previous posts.
Btw, this survey thing is interesting. Could you please provide me a link for the survey that you mentioned?
#46 Posted by arjun_m on November 2, 2003 10:21:16 am
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#45 Posted by harimau on November 2, 2003 10:20:56 am
Ref SR #40
[.... Now in the latest quarter with its miracle number of 7.2%, we see that 41,000 jobs were lost. And this job loss number, by the way is NOT annualized. The annualized number would be 164,000. ......
Lastly, I’d like to add that when you have actual (as opposed to statistically enhanced) growth of 7.2%, there is a palpable energy on the streets. I don’t get out much so maybe I have missed that vibrant throb of economic growth. But do you feel it?]
Well, 41,000 persons did feel the vibrant throb in their backsides! And that is just in the last quarter.
[.... Now in the latest quarter with its miracle number of 7.2%, we see that 41,000 jobs were lost. And this job loss number, by the way is NOT annualized. The annualized number would be 164,000. ......
Lastly, I’d like to add that when you have actual (as opposed to statistically enhanced) growth of 7.2%, there is a palpable energy on the streets. I don’t get out much so maybe I have missed that vibrant throb of economic growth. But do you feel it?]
Well, 41,000 persons did feel the vibrant throb in their backsides! And that is just in the last quarter.
#43 Posted by Urstruly on November 2, 2003 5:52:27 am
SR
Could anything be more disturbing than this:
In year 2000 the foreign investment in US was about 314 billion dollars. In year 2003 until last month this investment was 13 billion dollars. This raises a serious question. Have the riches stopped flowing to America for good?
Could anything be more disturbing than this:
In year 2000 the foreign investment in US was about 314 billion dollars. In year 2003 until last month this investment was 13 billion dollars. This raises a serious question. Have the riches stopped flowing to America for good?
#42 Posted by Urstruly on November 2, 2003 4:42:21 am
ahmadzai
I think you are on some sort of funny cigarettes. That`s ok; we will talk when you will start feeling better.
I think you are on some sort of funny cigarettes. That`s ok; we will talk when you will start feeling better.
#41 Posted by SR on November 2, 2003 12:59:48 am
sorry... the second half of the response #40 is to arjun_m
[“… the GDP grew by 7.2%… There are ways to verify … people working for the government … don`t come and go with each administration…”]
[“… the GDP grew by 7.2%… There are ways to verify … people working for the government … don`t come and go with each administration…”]
#40 Posted by SR on November 2, 2003 12:54:41 am
stuka #27 [“…America …not bound to any ideology… Republican ideology has … temporary favor in an uncertain time. … the pendulum will swing back… “]
Et tu, stuka? I didn’t expect you to have bought into the so-called Republican vs Democrat circus. Do you really believe they are anything more than just two wings of the One Ruling Party?? They are like the Tories and Whiggs of the Victorian era. They are both dogs but with different fleas.
The RepublicRats, that is, both, Republicans and Democrats, like to promote the fiction that the US Republic is, god-forbid, a democracy of the people. In reality it is the best democracy that money can buy and it is a government of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations. Both wings of the RepublicRats party serve their corporate agendas by promoting the Welfare State and the Warfare State. Both welfare and warfare are pushed under the garb of being for the good of the people. In fact, both welfare and warfare serve only corporate interests and strengthen and expand the central governmental authority while at the same time having the direct negative effect of diminishing individual liberty.
The United States was found, and built, on the principles of liberty. That’s what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are all about. Individual liberty was held as the highest ideal and government was small and uninstrusive. Unfortunately these principles are no longer understood by the majority of people, who, in their transformation from being citizens to becoming consumers, have slowly gotten accustomed to sacrificing liberty for pseudo security – a very bad deal. I believe that we should question anyone and anything that infringe on liberty. It’s a matter of principle. Governments across the globe should never become immune to scrutiny and individuals should never lose the ability to question authority, especially authority that is unilaterally imposed, as are most government programs and, in fact, for most part, government itself. I am not just critical of the US government, but also critical of the entire political structure as it currently exists, including every government in the world. It would serve us well to remind ourselves what the Founding Fathers believed in, which is what I wish we would all believe in. If there was a place on this earth where we could live in a laissez faire society that abides by the two fundamental principles common to most law, and most religions as well, that what you say you will do (contract law) and you won’t infringe on the property of others (tort law), I would be there in a flash.
[“… the GDP grew by 7.2%… There are ways to verify … people working for the government … don`t come and go with each administration…”]
Are you implying that if Clinton (and not Baby Bush) was in the White House these biased critics on Chowk would not be skeptical? What’s the difference, they are both psychopathic lying criminals… Let’s not forget that it was Ruben and Greenspan who started this crime wave of creating financial bubbles by unlimited credit expansion to get Slick Willie re-elected in 1994. Baby Bush is simply too stupid to have originated this ponzy scheme. He just tackled Gore and took the ball that Clinton passed and is running with it, going for his own touch-down. In the ultimate analysis it matters little who occupies the White House.
Let’s talk about the economic miracle.
I looked out of my window and saw that pigs were flying after all and that the GDP was growing at a break-neck 7.2%… Who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? But, wait a minute… did we miss something?
First of all, for the benefit of those who may not be aware, let us clarify that ALL quarterly figures reported by Uncle Sam are annualized. Europe, on the other hand, reports quarterly rates not their annual extrapolations. So if ECB says that there was 1% growth in the last quarter that would mean the annual rate is 4%, but when Uncle Sam says last quarter was 4%, it simply means that the actual growth in the quarter was 1%. I have been horrified to observe that many well educated people do not understand this elementary concept.
Now let’s turn to the 1.8% GDP growth in Q3 that would, if it remains constant, translate to a 7.2% annual growth.
I have not been able to dissect the numbers as yet so I cannot give details, but a few elementary observations need to be made.
It is naïve to say that the government does not lie. This is a country in a state of war and this government under earlier administrations during wartime has long history of telling all kinds of lies and has justified them under the rubric of National Security. The difference is that now lies have become so sophisticated that they are not even called lies any more. They are called spin.
In the second quarter, for instance, more than half of the 3.3% GDP was directly related to defense and the Iraq war. That left about 1.7% (annualized: remember) non-war related “growth.” Dissecting those numbers we discover that a chunk of it was due to investment in computers, which soared by $38.4 billion. But, in reality, the vast majority of that computer investment never occurred. Given the bizarre way government statistics are compiled, nobody actually paid anything and nobody received anything. That`s because Washington measures computer investment by calculating how much it would have cost in 1996 to buy a computer of equivalent power to today`s machines. On the $38.4 billion in increased computer investment, therefore only about $6 billion was real spending. The other $32 billion was a statistical construct, which is just a fancy way of saying that it wasn`t real. Without that false comfort, we would have been looking at a second-quarter growth not of 3.3 percent, but something under 2 percent -- and most of that attributable to defense spending. Profits told the same story, down $31 billion from the first quarter. Now in the latest quarter with its miracle number of 7.2%, we see that 41,000 jobs were lost. And this job loss number, by the way is NOT annualized. The annualized number would be 164,000.
It is absolutely amazing how effective this smoke-and-mirrors campaign touting ``economic recovery`` has been so far. It is even more amazing how ignorant and gullible the public is when it comes to being (willingly?) fooled by the nexus of government propaganda and Wall Street marketing machine.
Here I have not mentioned (though elsewhere I did) the hedonic factor that the government statisticians employ to make $6 billion look like 38.4 billion. The army of statisticians employed by the government is constantly revising their methodology, ostensibly to keep up with a changing world.
Following is the latest schedule of release of Comprehensive Revision of the National Income and Product Accounts.
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/2003benchmark/CR2003Schedule.htm
Go look it up yourself. There is also a Review of Comprehensive Revision of National Income and Product Accounts, Statistical Changes
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/ARTICLES/2003/09September/0903NIPAPreview.pdf
They even regularly change definitions.
An example of a definitional change is the recognition of computer software as capital investment (from being previously defined as business expense) in the 1999 comprehensive revision. In the 2003 comprehensive revision, the recognition of implicit services provided by property and casualty insurance and the allocation of a portion of the implicit services of commercial banks to borrowers represent other examples of definitional changes.
Lastly, I’d like to add that when you have actual (as opposed to statistically enhanced) growth of 7.2%, there is a palpable energy on the streets. I don’t get out much so maybe I have missed that vibrant throb of economic growth. But do you feel it?
…SR
Et tu, stuka? I didn’t expect you to have bought into the so-called Republican vs Democrat circus. Do you really believe they are anything more than just two wings of the One Ruling Party?? They are like the Tories and Whiggs of the Victorian era. They are both dogs but with different fleas.
The RepublicRats, that is, both, Republicans and Democrats, like to promote the fiction that the US Republic is, god-forbid, a democracy of the people. In reality it is the best democracy that money can buy and it is a government of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations. Both wings of the RepublicRats party serve their corporate agendas by promoting the Welfare State and the Warfare State. Both welfare and warfare are pushed under the garb of being for the good of the people. In fact, both welfare and warfare serve only corporate interests and strengthen and expand the central governmental authority while at the same time having the direct negative effect of diminishing individual liberty.
The United States was found, and built, on the principles of liberty. That’s what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are all about. Individual liberty was held as the highest ideal and government was small and uninstrusive. Unfortunately these principles are no longer understood by the majority of people, who, in their transformation from being citizens to becoming consumers, have slowly gotten accustomed to sacrificing liberty for pseudo security – a very bad deal. I believe that we should question anyone and anything that infringe on liberty. It’s a matter of principle. Governments across the globe should never become immune to scrutiny and individuals should never lose the ability to question authority, especially authority that is unilaterally imposed, as are most government programs and, in fact, for most part, government itself. I am not just critical of the US government, but also critical of the entire political structure as it currently exists, including every government in the world. It would serve us well to remind ourselves what the Founding Fathers believed in, which is what I wish we would all believe in. If there was a place on this earth where we could live in a laissez faire society that abides by the two fundamental principles common to most law, and most religions as well, that what you say you will do (contract law) and you won’t infringe on the property of others (tort law), I would be there in a flash.
[“… the GDP grew by 7.2%… There are ways to verify … people working for the government … don`t come and go with each administration…”]
Are you implying that if Clinton (and not Baby Bush) was in the White House these biased critics on Chowk would not be skeptical? What’s the difference, they are both psychopathic lying criminals… Let’s not forget that it was Ruben and Greenspan who started this crime wave of creating financial bubbles by unlimited credit expansion to get Slick Willie re-elected in 1994. Baby Bush is simply too stupid to have originated this ponzy scheme. He just tackled Gore and took the ball that Clinton passed and is running with it, going for his own touch-down. In the ultimate analysis it matters little who occupies the White House.
Let’s talk about the economic miracle.
I looked out of my window and saw that pigs were flying after all and that the GDP was growing at a break-neck 7.2%… Who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? But, wait a minute… did we miss something?
First of all, for the benefit of those who may not be aware, let us clarify that ALL quarterly figures reported by Uncle Sam are annualized. Europe, on the other hand, reports quarterly rates not their annual extrapolations. So if ECB says that there was 1% growth in the last quarter that would mean the annual rate is 4%, but when Uncle Sam says last quarter was 4%, it simply means that the actual growth in the quarter was 1%. I have been horrified to observe that many well educated people do not understand this elementary concept.
Now let’s turn to the 1.8% GDP growth in Q3 that would, if it remains constant, translate to a 7.2% annual growth.
I have not been able to dissect the numbers as yet so I cannot give details, but a few elementary observations need to be made.
It is naïve to say that the government does not lie. This is a country in a state of war and this government under earlier administrations during wartime has long history of telling all kinds of lies and has justified them under the rubric of National Security. The difference is that now lies have become so sophisticated that they are not even called lies any more. They are called spin.
In the second quarter, for instance, more than half of the 3.3% GDP was directly related to defense and the Iraq war. That left about 1.7% (annualized: remember) non-war related “growth.” Dissecting those numbers we discover that a chunk of it was due to investment in computers, which soared by $38.4 billion. But, in reality, the vast majority of that computer investment never occurred. Given the bizarre way government statistics are compiled, nobody actually paid anything and nobody received anything. That`s because Washington measures computer investment by calculating how much it would have cost in 1996 to buy a computer of equivalent power to today`s machines. On the $38.4 billion in increased computer investment, therefore only about $6 billion was real spending. The other $32 billion was a statistical construct, which is just a fancy way of saying that it wasn`t real. Without that false comfort, we would have been looking at a second-quarter growth not of 3.3 percent, but something under 2 percent -- and most of that attributable to defense spending. Profits told the same story, down $31 billion from the first quarter. Now in the latest quarter with its miracle number of 7.2%, we see that 41,000 jobs were lost. And this job loss number, by the way is NOT annualized. The annualized number would be 164,000.
It is absolutely amazing how effective this smoke-and-mirrors campaign touting ``economic recovery`` has been so far. It is even more amazing how ignorant and gullible the public is when it comes to being (willingly?) fooled by the nexus of government propaganda and Wall Street marketing machine.
Here I have not mentioned (though elsewhere I did) the hedonic factor that the government statisticians employ to make $6 billion look like 38.4 billion. The army of statisticians employed by the government is constantly revising their methodology, ostensibly to keep up with a changing world.
Following is the latest schedule of release of Comprehensive Revision of the National Income and Product Accounts.
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/dn/2003benchmark/CR2003Schedule.htm
Go look it up yourself. There is also a Review of Comprehensive Revision of National Income and Product Accounts, Statistical Changes
http://www.bea.doc.gov/bea/ARTICLES/2003/09September/0903NIPAPreview.pdf
They even regularly change definitions.
An example of a definitional change is the recognition of computer software as capital investment (from being previously defined as business expense) in the 1999 comprehensive revision. In the 2003 comprehensive revision, the recognition of implicit services provided by property and casualty insurance and the allocation of a portion of the implicit services of commercial banks to borrowers represent other examples of definitional changes.
Lastly, I’d like to add that when you have actual (as opposed to statistically enhanced) growth of 7.2%, there is a palpable energy on the streets. I don’t get out much so maybe I have missed that vibrant throb of economic growth. But do you feel it?
…SR
#39 Posted by arjun_m on November 1, 2003 3:44:10 pm
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#38 Posted by arjun_m on November 1, 2003 3:21:40 pm
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#37 Posted by Ahmadzai on November 1, 2003 12:05:00 pm
Urstruly:
``I wouldn`t mind if the economy stays lousy for almost one more year, otherwise there is greater chance that this anti-Muslim bigot and butcher will get elected for another term. Just imagine the extent of damage that he will do not only to Muslims but his own country. ``
Since you are living in the USA, would you like to tell me whether Democrats in power will continue to treat Pakistan as their strategic partners?
I hope they will not be misguided by a few extremists in Pakistan who carry OBL pictures and burn American flags. Being an extreme minority, they can never expect to come to power in Pakistan. They will always remain sidelined and in their frustration resolve to unethical acts. Its unlike India, where the terrorists have been elected to power and are being supported by all Indians. These terrorists kill innocent Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs then go into hibernation, then return after long sleep and revert to their abhorable ways of killing the innocents.
However, in Pakistan, mostly the people want Pakistan to be an Islamic state without Mullas and an active overseeing by military. This automatically ensures that extremists will remain a minority here and cut off from all entries into the Government. But the damage is done by the western media by portrayal of the extremists unduly and unnecessarily.
``I wouldn`t mind if the economy stays lousy for almost one more year, otherwise there is greater chance that this anti-Muslim bigot and butcher will get elected for another term. Just imagine the extent of damage that he will do not only to Muslims but his own country. ``
Since you are living in the USA, would you like to tell me whether Democrats in power will continue to treat Pakistan as their strategic partners?
I hope they will not be misguided by a few extremists in Pakistan who carry OBL pictures and burn American flags. Being an extreme minority, they can never expect to come to power in Pakistan. They will always remain sidelined and in their frustration resolve to unethical acts. Its unlike India, where the terrorists have been elected to power and are being supported by all Indians. These terrorists kill innocent Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs then go into hibernation, then return after long sleep and revert to their abhorable ways of killing the innocents.
However, in Pakistan, mostly the people want Pakistan to be an Islamic state without Mullas and an active overseeing by military. This automatically ensures that extremists will remain a minority here and cut off from all entries into the Government. But the damage is done by the western media by portrayal of the extremists unduly and unnecessarily.
#36 Posted by arjun_m on November 1, 2003 9:40:32 am
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#35 Posted by rozaiba on November 1, 2003 9:40:31 am
Well, what do you know? Am just reading a couple of Franken`s books. They are a delight to go over. Plenty of examples of scripts from shows where right-wing self-righteous farces like Hannity and O`Rielly abuse their roles by insisting on projecting only the conservative view as being correct.
Attended a recent lecture by the former President of CNN (and SONY Pictures) who suggests that Murdoch`s strongly placed to dominate global media.
With Fox, he`s got Roger Ailes, who was with Bush Sr. gvt., and who now ensures that conservative views recieve due coverge.
Attended a recent lecture by the former President of CNN (and SONY Pictures) who suggests that Murdoch`s strongly placed to dominate global media.
With Fox, he`s got Roger Ailes, who was with Bush Sr. gvt., and who now ensures that conservative views recieve due coverge.
#34 Posted by nasah on November 1, 2003 7:16:36 am
Zeynab -- great piece -- don`t worry -- the days of this fascist evangelical administration ARE numbered...this anomaly will disappear as a bad dream in November 2004 ..... we MUST VOTE not sit at home... on the day of the reckoning...
#33 Posted by Fosa on October 31, 2003 6:21:58 pm
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#32 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 3:21:04 pm
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#31 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 3:21:03 pm
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#30 Posted by Urstruly on October 31, 2003 12:27:39 pm
arjunm #26
That`s where you are wrong. Any human being living far or near is my neighbor. We want Americans to see humans being in this light then there wont be any clash of civilizations; there will be only one civilization on this planet - the human civilization.
That`s where you are wrong. Any human being living far or near is my neighbor. We want Americans to see humans being in this light then there wont be any clash of civilizations; there will be only one civilization on this planet - the human civilization.
#29 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 11:33:20 am
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#28 Posted by stuka on October 31, 2003 11:22:39 am
Arjun, SR, Temporal:
Read your posts subsequent to typing mine. I think we are all on the same page. McCarthy analogy is a good one. In fact, the war on Iraq has cooled passions on the Korean and Iranian front. The big issue is internal rather then external. You do have to keep the effect of Sept 11 in mind. No doubt many more have died elsewhere, but it is still the largest civil-terror attack on a country thereby opening a new paradigm in the reaction of the state.
UrsTruly:
I would not be surprised at 7.3% rate for the past qtr. Look at today`s edition of USA today. Tthere have been other instances of individual quarters having that kind of one time performance.
Read your posts subsequent to typing mine. I think we are all on the same page. McCarthy analogy is a good one. In fact, the war on Iraq has cooled passions on the Korean and Iranian front. The big issue is internal rather then external. You do have to keep the effect of Sept 11 in mind. No doubt many more have died elsewhere, but it is still the largest civil-terror attack on a country thereby opening a new paradigm in the reaction of the state.
UrsTruly:
I would not be surprised at 7.3% rate for the past qtr. Look at today`s edition of USA today. Tthere have been other instances of individual quarters having that kind of one time performance.
#27 Posted by stuka on October 31, 2003 11:16:29 am
SR:
``Any society that gets pre-occupied with ideology, any ideology, and foresakes rationality, is ultimately doomed. ``
True. But America is not bound to any ideology, least of all Bush`s. I am a Republican, but I know that the Republican ideology has at best temporary favor in an uncertain time. In a few years, the pendulum will swing back, and swing back again. Tthe genius of the American system lies in its pursuit of happiness. If the path we have chosen at this point provides dimishing returns in the perspetion of the American people, they will change paths.
``Any society that gets pre-occupied with ideology, any ideology, and foresakes rationality, is ultimately doomed. ``
True. But America is not bound to any ideology, least of all Bush`s. I am a Republican, but I know that the Republican ideology has at best temporary favor in an uncertain time. In a few years, the pendulum will swing back, and swing back again. Tthe genius of the American system lies in its pursuit of happiness. If the path we have chosen at this point provides dimishing returns in the perspetion of the American people, they will change paths.
#26 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 10:22:47 am
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#25 Posted by Urstruly on October 31, 2003 9:00:29 am
ahmadzai
I wouldn`t mind if the economy stays lousy for almost one more year, otherwise there is greater chance that this anti-Muslim bigot and butcher will get elected for another term. Just imagine the extent of damage that he will do not only to Muslims but his own country.
I wouldn`t mind if the economy stays lousy for almost one more year, otherwise there is greater chance that this anti-Muslim bigot and butcher will get elected for another term. Just imagine the extent of damage that he will do not only to Muslims but his own country.
#24 Posted by Ahmadzai on October 31, 2003 8:39:29 am
arjun and urstruly:
Btw, I will be delighted if the economy of the USA picks up and booms. This means more job opportunities for a person like me and more FCY earning opportunities for Pakistan.
:-)
Btw, I will be delighted if the economy of the USA picks up and booms. This means more job opportunities for a person like me and more FCY earning opportunities for Pakistan.
:-)
#23 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 8:21:48 am
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#22 Posted by Ahmadzai on October 31, 2003 8:21:48 am
Zeynab Ali:
This is a good article. I have said many times on this website that in the USA, the Government, establishment and media work together to implement the strategy made by the foreign office.
The same thing seems to have happened in India. Under a huge media propaganda, the Indians have elected to power and are quite satisfied with the anti-Pakistani rhetorics of extremists like Advanis, Joshis, Modis, Sinhas, etc.
Surprisingly, this cannot be said to have happened in Israel. The media, politicians and even their military denounce the Government policies off and on.
Interesting case study would be Pakistan. Governmental foreign policy is never supported by the opposition. Yet, opposition will never give an alternate strategy. The media too never toes our Governmental policy. I see our media as quite responsible in that it never goes overboard and walks a fine line. You will find all sorts of opinions expressed through it. Therefore, its is common to see healthy debates in TV Talk shows where pro and anti-Government analysts battle out advantages and disadvantages of sending army troops to Iraq.
An even more interesting behavior is depicted by our media versus views of the people. Although a questionable survey has shown that a majority of Pakistanis have sympathies for OBL, only 11 % people have cast their votes in favor of parties (MMA) that are considered to be Talibani supporters. Our media takes a decidedly pro-Government stance on its anti-Taliban/OBL matter. Even the MMA takes an anti-Taliban/OBL stance when challenged. However, media also takes an anti-Government stance on our total dependency on USA.
This is a good article. I have said many times on this website that in the USA, the Government, establishment and media work together to implement the strategy made by the foreign office.
The same thing seems to have happened in India. Under a huge media propaganda, the Indians have elected to power and are quite satisfied with the anti-Pakistani rhetorics of extremists like Advanis, Joshis, Modis, Sinhas, etc.
Surprisingly, this cannot be said to have happened in Israel. The media, politicians and even their military denounce the Government policies off and on.
Interesting case study would be Pakistan. Governmental foreign policy is never supported by the opposition. Yet, opposition will never give an alternate strategy. The media too never toes our Governmental policy. I see our media as quite responsible in that it never goes overboard and walks a fine line. You will find all sorts of opinions expressed through it. Therefore, its is common to see healthy debates in TV Talk shows where pro and anti-Government analysts battle out advantages and disadvantages of sending army troops to Iraq.
An even more interesting behavior is depicted by our media versus views of the people. Although a questionable survey has shown that a majority of Pakistanis have sympathies for OBL, only 11 % people have cast their votes in favor of parties (MMA) that are considered to be Talibani supporters. Our media takes a decidedly pro-Government stance on its anti-Taliban/OBL matter. Even the MMA takes an anti-Taliban/OBL stance when challenged. However, media also takes an anti-Government stance on our total dependency on USA.
#21 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 7:31:02 am
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#20 Posted by Ahmadzai on October 31, 2003 7:31:02 am
Urstruly:
``....7.2%...``
Either the truth will be known or the organization bringing the truth forward will be forced to disappear a la Indian Government versus Tehelka battle style.
``....7.2%...``
Either the truth will be known or the organization bringing the truth forward will be forced to disappear a la Indian Government versus Tehelka battle style.
#19 Posted by arjun_m on October 31, 2003 7:00:13 am
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#18 Posted by bharatvaasi on October 31, 2003 6:39:22 am
here is an article - were it not for its genophobia and racist stuff it would have been hilarious. I guess you need to give these uneducated dunderheads a voice else they will form the vaguard for the latent facist tendencies in pakistan....anyway here is the article in question.....(i found it mildly distasteful but when I showed to it some of my colleagues they found it alarming, but at a more rational level I wish these guys had more between their ears).
But then this is the kind of stuff most are fed on back home....and then we comment on FOX News. Now that I find funny
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/Oct-2003/31/EDITOR/op5.asp
the selection of quotes:
(a)He may well have tried but Bush’s America does not listen to any one the Indo-Zionists do not approve of.
(b)India wants unfettered democracy in Pakistan that permits it to engage openly in subversion thus paving the way for invasion.
(c)In the post 9/11 world defined by “if you are not with us, you are against us” every country is holding its breath in fear of strikes by American ‘precision’ bombs from ‘stealth’ bombers flying at ‘safe’ height if it is held by Indo-Zionists to be ‘not enough with America’.
(d)India has been infiltrating the body politic of Pakistan in support of ‘ethnic and secular chauvinists’. (I use the word secular chauvinists for persons who flout their faith openly and are proud of it - like Muslims who flaunt their drinking and womanising).
(e)The Indo-Zionist allies of the US government worry that despite being bombarded by intense propaganda, the American people may wake up to the fact that they suffer hate directly in consequence of and in proportion with the humiliation that its strategic partners - India and Israel - impose on the Muslims.
(f)It is certain that its policy of genocide of Muslims would have more meaning, purpose and focus in order to unite all non-Muslims under Brahmin tutelage. five percent Brahmins who rule India where 15 percent of the population is Muslim
(g)The nature of discipline of the armed forces is the hallmark of the nature of sovereignty a people enjoy. The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a true republic.
The armed forces of Pakistan have never been held down.
But then this is the kind of stuff most are fed on back home....and then we comment on FOX News. Now that I find funny
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/Oct-2003/31/EDITOR/op5.asp
the selection of quotes:
(a)He may well have tried but Bush’s America does not listen to any one the Indo-Zionists do not approve of.
(b)India wants unfettered democracy in Pakistan that permits it to engage openly in subversion thus paving the way for invasion.
(c)In the post 9/11 world defined by “if you are not with us, you are against us” every country is holding its breath in fear of strikes by American ‘precision’ bombs from ‘stealth’ bombers flying at ‘safe’ height if it is held by Indo-Zionists to be ‘not enough with America’.
(d)India has been infiltrating the body politic of Pakistan in support of ‘ethnic and secular chauvinists’. (I use the word secular chauvinists for persons who flout their faith openly and are proud of it - like Muslims who flaunt their drinking and womanising).
(e)The Indo-Zionist allies of the US government worry that despite being bombarded by intense propaganda, the American people may wake up to the fact that they suffer hate directly in consequence of and in proportion with the humiliation that its strategic partners - India and Israel - impose on the Muslims.
(f)It is certain that its policy of genocide of Muslims would have more meaning, purpose and focus in order to unite all non-Muslims under Brahmin tutelage. five percent Brahmins who rule India where 15 percent of the population is Muslim
(g)The nature of discipline of the armed forces is the hallmark of the nature of sovereignty a people enjoy. The Islamic Republic of Pakistan is a true republic.
The armed forces of Pakistan have never been held down.
#17 Posted by ferozk on October 31, 2003 6:14:26 am
The media in the United States, both electronic and print, is a business and like any other business, it needs to make money. The news shows on Fox or else, target an audience which shares a particular tangent of the contempoary political debate. People generally like, when their personal views are amplified and given the credence of mainstream opinion and its respectability.
Electronic media relies on ad sponsers to generate its revenues and news shows like O``Reilly, which tap into a political conscience that create ratings, which in turn determine the cost of a 30 second ad and that in turn pays salaries and puts food on many tables. The United States is a free market, where news is a commodity that can be packaged, marketed and sold and like free markets any where, the old Latin adage of caveat emptor, buyer beware, applies accordingly. Leaving arguments of First Amendment rights aside, the main justification is the pluarality of views and that pre-supposes a high level of intellectual maturity and intellectual tolerance. No one is forcing anyone to watch any news shows, but simply disagreeing with the message does not entitle a form of politically correct censorship to be mandated across the board.
I have watched many talk shows on many different networks and as Arjun_M said, when they agreed with my view points, I applauded them and when they did not, I chided them for their political leanings. Regardless of agreements and disagreements, what I valued was the choice given to me to listen and to choice my medium of information and not being forced to rely on a single source for my information.
The best advice I can give is listen to all and think and decide for yourself.
Ciao
Electronic media relies on ad sponsers to generate its revenues and news shows like O``Reilly, which tap into a political conscience that create ratings, which in turn determine the cost of a 30 second ad and that in turn pays salaries and puts food on many tables. The United States is a free market, where news is a commodity that can be packaged, marketed and sold and like free markets any where, the old Latin adage of caveat emptor, buyer beware, applies accordingly. Leaving arguments of First Amendment rights aside, the main justification is the pluarality of views and that pre-supposes a high level of intellectual maturity and intellectual tolerance. No one is forcing anyone to watch any news shows, but simply disagreeing with the message does not entitle a form of politically correct censorship to be mandated across the board.
I have watched many talk shows on many different networks and as Arjun_M said, when they agreed with my view points, I applauded them and when they did not, I chided them for their political leanings. Regardless of agreements and disagreements, what I valued was the choice given to me to listen and to choice my medium of information and not being forced to rely on a single source for my information.
The best advice I can give is listen to all and think and decide for yourself.
Ciao
#16 Posted by Ordinary_Muslim on October 30, 2003 8:31:26 pm
#4 Romair
++ In case of the Iraq war, only the majority of one country’s citizens, Israel, supported the war. ++
1. ``... nearly two-thirds of Baghdad residents believe that the removal of the Iraqi dictator has been worth the hardships they have been forced to endure, a new Gallup poll shows.``
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/24/international/middleeast/24BAGH.html?ex=1067662800&en=c9c6990133e17342&ei=5070
(Support for the US led war on the Saddam regime is higher in the rest of the country.)
2. ``The Gallup International survey ... found 68 per cent of Australians backed some sort of military action against Iraq.``
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/04/1044318597799.html
So here you have two countries (other than the US) where a majority supported military action. Would the America bashers bother to check their facts before going on their baseless anti-American rants.
++ ... Americans are overly self-righteous when it comes to their govts.’ actions in other countries. ++
If anyone made this statement about Arabs or blacks he/she would have been accused of racism, bigotry.
Cordially
OM
++ In case of the Iraq war, only the majority of one country’s citizens, Israel, supported the war. ++
1. ``... nearly two-thirds of Baghdad residents believe that the removal of the Iraqi dictator has been worth the hardships they have been forced to endure, a new Gallup poll shows.``
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/24/international/middleeast/24BAGH.html?ex=1067662800&en=c9c6990133e17342&ei=5070
(Support for the US led war on the Saddam regime is higher in the rest of the country.)
2. ``The Gallup International survey ... found 68 per cent of Australians backed some sort of military action against Iraq.``
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/04/1044318597799.html
So here you have two countries (other than the US) where a majority supported military action. Would the America bashers bother to check their facts before going on their baseless anti-American rants.
++ ... Americans are overly self-righteous when it comes to their govts.’ actions in other countries. ++
If anyone made this statement about Arabs or blacks he/she would have been accused of racism, bigotry.
Cordially
OM
#15 Posted by Fosa on October 30, 2003 8:02:22 pm
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#14 Posted by Urstruly on October 30, 2003 12:40:14 pm
arjunm
Yes I agree. Just give it a couple of days.
Yes I agree. Just give it a couple of days.
#13 Posted by arjun_m on October 30, 2003 12:33:22 pm
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#12 Posted by Urstruly on October 30, 2003 12:12:03 pm
temporal & SR
Speaking of the positive spin, the joke of the day was at NPR today when they told the news of US government`s claims (made today) that economy is growing at a rate of 7.2%.
By the way announcer was laughing too.
Speaking of the positive spin, the joke of the day was at NPR today when they told the news of US government`s claims (made today) that economy is growing at a rate of 7.2%.
By the way announcer was laughing too.
#11 Posted by RationalFaith on October 30, 2003 12:04:10 pm
SR
Your criticisms and fears are fair because you do not believe in any Islamist Utopias. Any objective person will agree that the US right now faces a moral crisis: it never before faced the kind of challenges that many other people have already faced and have been heartily lectured to by Americans.
I believe America will come out of it, though it will never go back to the innocence it once had. That may be a good thing. That innocence led to Zia and his jihadis running amok from Chechnya to G. Bay.
Your criticisms and fears are fair because you do not believe in any Islamist Utopias. Any objective person will agree that the US right now faces a moral crisis: it never before faced the kind of challenges that many other people have already faced and have been heartily lectured to by Americans.
I believe America will come out of it, though it will never go back to the innocence it once had. That may be a good thing. That innocence led to Zia and his jihadis running amok from Chechnya to G. Bay.
#10 Posted by temporal on October 30, 2003 11:59:50 am
SR
...have only read about the darkness pervading the states during (senator) mccarthy`s hey days...this is what the US is seemingly going through these days... the positive spin is it took decades but but finally the american wisdom and will woke up and did wash off all the excesses of the mccarthy era...positive spin?...it may take a few decades to wash off excesses...would we live through it?...who knows?
..t
...have only read about the darkness pervading the states during (senator) mccarthy`s hey days...this is what the US is seemingly going through these days... the positive spin is it took decades but but finally the american wisdom and will woke up and did wash off all the excesses of the mccarthy era...positive spin?...it may take a few decades to wash off
..t
#9 Posted by SR on October 30, 2003 11:26:50 am
arjun_m #8 [``...The pendulum has swung too far one way and it`ll swing back the other way...just give it time. ...``]
I hope with my heart`s depth that you are right and that this is just a bad dream and we`ll wake up in the morning to a blue sky and bright sunshine. If and when that were to really happen, we`d love to return to the US. But what if it takes decades to turn around and I`m dead and gone by then, never again to see paradise on earth.
...SR
I hope with my heart`s depth that you are right and that this is just a bad dream and we`ll wake up in the morning to a blue sky and bright sunshine. If and when that were to really happen, we`d love to return to the US. But what if it takes decades to turn around and I`m dead and gone by then, never again to see paradise on earth.
...SR
#8 Posted by arjun_m on October 30, 2003 10:53:23 am
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#7 Posted by arjun_m on October 30, 2003 10:53:23 am
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#6 Posted by SR on October 30, 2003 9:59:32 am
Years ago when, disgusted with the dominant religio-military mindset in Pureland, I moved to the US no one could have convinced me that, despite the then rising threat of Jery Falwell and Reaganism, in less than three decades this country will be dead set on an ideological path that leads directly towards fascism. It is one of the greatest tragedies of modern history. America could have been, and indeed should have been, a model of paradise on earth, but alas that was not to be.
Any society that gets pre-occupied with ideology, any ideology, and foresakes rationality, is ultimately doomed. The fate of the former Soviet block is a recent example and the perpetual state of turmoil in places like Pureland can, in large measure, be attributed to their obssession with an over-riding ideology that trumps rationality. Sadly, the collective psyche of America is being steered down an ideological path which suits the interests of its real masters.
The price, unfortunately, will be paid by the world at large and ultimately even by Bubas Americanus. In the mean time, I`m going to get the hell out and away from here so as not to get trampled over by the drunk elephants when they start running amock in an orgy of war dances.
...SR
Any society that gets pre-occupied with ideology, any ideology, and foresakes rationality, is ultimately doomed. The fate of the former Soviet block is a recent example and the perpetual state of turmoil in places like Pureland can, in large measure, be attributed to their obssession with an over-riding ideology that trumps rationality. Sadly, the collective psyche of America is being steered down an ideological path which suits the interests of its real masters.
The price, unfortunately, will be paid by the world at large and ultimately even by Bubas Americanus. In the mean time, I`m going to get the hell out and away from here so as not to get trampled over by the drunk elephants when they start running amock in an orgy of war dances.
...SR
#5 Posted by RationalFaith on October 30, 2003 9:52:13 am
You guys are just plain silly. You have the same problem with America as you do with anything non Islamic. You find holes in a good system and cry buckets of croc tears that it is not perfect. Then you go to town jobbering like morons how your despicable systems are not that bad.
Go figure why nobody takes any of you seriously. Develop some integrity. Then people will spare a few minutes to listen to your wailings in arabic.
Go figure why nobody takes any of you seriously. Develop some integrity. Then people will spare a few minutes to listen to your wailings in arabic.
#4 Posted by Romair on October 30, 2003 9:44:47 am
Good article.
Al Franken’s book is now on the top of the NY Times Best Seller’s list. Interestingly, his arch-enemy, Bill O’Rielly’s book, is also at the top of the same list.
I now follow the Canadia media, since it is much more objective than the USA media. BBC is still quite good, despite the official UK policy of supporting the Iraq War.
Sensationalism and controversy sells in US media. That is why the top-ranked shows are the ones that push it. The four top ranked Cable news shows in USA are all on Fox. Media personalities, like Rush Limbaugh, who create controversy, can get salaries of over $25 million/year (Rush’s salary). So it becomes very difficult for other more sane media personalities to compete with them, without, “doing” controversy. This encourages sensationalism.
Added to this, is the fact, that Americans are overly self-righteous, when it comes to their govts.’ actions in other countries. They actually believe, like a religion, that US invasions are a force of goodness in the world. Even when the rest of the world has overwhelmingly said, that aren`t. In case of the Iraq war, only the majority of one country’s citizens, Israel, supported the war. The rest of the world opposed it. Yet, a majority of the Americans still can be easily convinced that the war was justified, by their President simply stating, “We are liberating the Iraqis.” And 70% are convinced that Al-Qaeda had links with Iraq. When it definitely did not. This is similar to Muslims believing that Jews staged the WTC bombings. The only difference being that the US population is highly educated, yet still believes in myths, based on its own self-righteousness.
Due to this, any journalist who points out the incorrectness of the US stance, is blown out of the airwaves. Even on this site, whenever I point out, with statistics, the bias of the US media and govt. on international issues, a small group of our Uncle-Tom Pakistani neo-cons, immediately launches its character assassinations. They can never accept that the US can do any wrong. Hence every US journalist has to be patriotic, lest he be considered anti-American.
A good example is Bill Mayer of Politically Incorrect. He is actually quite pro-US wars, and is himself Jewish. Even he lost his whole career, and his show was cancelled, when he made one comment about the WTC bombings. All his sponsors backed off, and he is now in the dustbin. Similarly, Donahue was the highest rated show on MSNBC, yet it was yanked and replaced with Countdown: Iraq, since Donahue was openly anti-Iraq war.
“At MSNBC, meanwhile, a six-month experiment to develop a liberal program featuring Phil Donahue ended just before the war began, when Donahue’s show was cancelled and replaced it with a program titled “Countdown: Iraq.” Although the network cited poor ratings as the reason for dumping Donahue, the New York Times reported that Donahue ``was actually attracting more viewers than any other program on MSNBC, even the channel`s signature prime-time program, Hardball with Chris Matthews.`` A different story appears, however, in an internal NBC report leaked to AllYourTV.com, a web site that covers the television industry. The NBC report recommended axing Donahue because he presented a ``difficult public face for NBC in a time of war. ...” (http://www.altpr.org/print.php?sid=27) Excerpted from Weapons of Mass Deception: The Uses of Propaganda in Bush`s War on Iraq (Tarcher/Penguin).
I have always been pro-US domestic policy (until Sep 11) and very anti-US foreign policy. I have always felt that the US media presents, not only a biased view of international affairs, but an extremely biased view. I doubt anyone really knows what is going on, behind the scenes, in Iraq. A Christian magazine, reported that there are complains that the US govt. swiped off $5 billion dollars. Neo-cons with strong Israeli influence, starting a war, on false claims of WMD, against world opinion, with companies with high-level Republican connections like Haliburton and Bechtel getting major top secret contracts, which are hidden under the Defence Dept laws, is too fishy too be believed. Yet the US media is only now starting to acknowledge all this. After thousands of people have been killed.
And even now, Bush is basing his decisions, not on what is best for Iraqis, but what the media opinion polls show.
My biases have been validated by a recent report by the international media watchdog organization, “Reporters Without Borders,” (www.rsf.org) which ranked the US media at 144 out of 166 countries, in its reporting of international affairs. It ranked its reporting on Iraq even behind the reporting on Iraq during the govt. of Saddam.
Interestingly, even on domestic reporting, Reporters without Borders ranks Canada and Australia as countries with “Good Sitaution” for media. While it ranks US one category lower with “Satisfactory” situation. This is only level above India and Pakistan, which are ranked as” Noticeable Problem” situation. http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=20
I think it is in the interest of all immigrants to ensure free reporting. Otherwise, the same media could shift its attention from Arabs and onto other communities.
Al Franken’s book is now on the top of the NY Times Best Seller’s list. Interestingly, his arch-enemy, Bill O’Rielly’s book, is also at the top of the same list.
I now follow the Canadia media, since it is much more objective than the USA media. BBC is still quite good, despite the official UK policy of supporting the Iraq War.
Sensationalism and controversy sells in US media. That is why the top-ranked shows are the ones that push it. The four top ranked Cable news shows in USA are all on Fox. Media personalities, like Rush Limbaugh, who create controversy, can get salaries of over $25 million/year (Rush’s salary). So it becomes very difficult for other more sane media personalities to compete with them, without, “doing” controversy. This encourages sensationalism.
Added to this, is the fact, that Americans are overly self-righteous, when it comes to their govts.’ actions in other countries. They actually believe, like a religion, that US invasions are a force of goodness in the world. Even when the rest of the world has overwhelmingly said, that aren`t. In case of the Iraq war, only the majority of one country’s citizens, Israel, supported the war. The rest of the world opposed it. Yet, a majority of the Americans still can be easily convinced that the war was justified, by their President simply stating, “We are liberating the Iraqis.” And 70% are convinced that Al-Qaeda had links with Iraq. When it definitely did not. This is similar to Muslims believing that Jews staged the WTC bombings. The only difference being that the US population is highly educated, yet still believes in myths, based on its own self-righteousness.
Due to this, any journalist who points out the incorrectness of the US stance, is blown out of the airwaves. Even on this site, whenever I point out, with statistics, the bias of the US media and govt. on international issues, a small group of our Uncle-Tom Pakistani neo-cons, immediately launches its character assassinations. They can never accept that the US can do any wrong. Hence every US journalist has to be patriotic, lest he be considered anti-American.
A good example is Bill Mayer of Politically Incorrect. He is actually quite pro-US wars, and is himself Jewish. Even he lost his whole career, and his show was cancelled, when he made one comment about the WTC bombings. All his sponsors backed off, and he is now in the dustbin. Similarly, Donahue was the highest rated show on MSNBC, yet it was yanked and replaced with Countdown: Iraq, since Donahue was openly anti-Iraq war.
“At MSNBC, meanwhile, a six-month experiment to develop a liberal program featuring Phil Donahue ended just before the war began, when Donahue’s show was cancelled and replaced it with a program titled “Countdown: Iraq.” Although the network cited poor ratings as the reason for dumping Donahue, the New York Times reported that Donahue ``was actually attracting more viewers than any other program on MSNBC, even the channel`s signature prime-time program, Hardball with Chris Matthews.`` A different story appears, however, in an internal NBC report leaked to AllYourTV.com, a web site that covers the television industry. The NBC report recommended axing Donahue because he presented a ``difficult public face for NBC in a time of war. ...” (http://www.altpr.org/print.php?sid=27) Excerpted from Weapons of Mass Deception: The Uses of Propaganda in Bush`s War on Iraq (Tarcher/Penguin).
I have always been pro-US domestic policy (until Sep 11) and very anti-US foreign policy. I have always felt that the US media presents, not only a biased view of international affairs, but an extremely biased view. I doubt anyone really knows what is going on, behind the scenes, in Iraq. A Christian magazine, reported that there are complains that the US govt. swiped off $5 billion dollars. Neo-cons with strong Israeli influence, starting a war, on false claims of WMD, against world opinion, with companies with high-level Republican connections like Haliburton and Bechtel getting major top secret contracts, which are hidden under the Defence Dept laws, is too fishy too be believed. Yet the US media is only now starting to acknowledge all this. After thousands of people have been killed.
And even now, Bush is basing his decisions, not on what is best for Iraqis, but what the media opinion polls show.
My biases have been validated by a recent report by the international media watchdog organization, “Reporters Without Borders,” (www.rsf.org) which ranked the US media at 144 out of 166 countries, in its reporting of international affairs. It ranked its reporting on Iraq even behind the reporting on Iraq during the govt. of Saddam.
Interestingly, even on domestic reporting, Reporters without Borders ranks Canada and Australia as countries with “Good Sitaution” for media. While it ranks US one category lower with “Satisfactory” situation. This is only level above India and Pakistan, which are ranked as” Noticeable Problem” situation. http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=20
I think it is in the interest of all immigrants to ensure free reporting. Otherwise, the same media could shift its attention from Arabs and onto other communities.
#3 Posted by arjun_m on October 30, 2003 9:37:16 am
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#2 Posted by kaurasach on October 30, 2003 9:37:16 am
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#1 Posted by temporal on October 30, 2003 9:02:19 am
Zeynab:
the US media…of its own volition or under coercion from the neoconziX was the real WMD--Weapon of Mass Deception on a scale never before carried out…
...yes Christian Amanpour and other journalists are slowly coming out of the closet…(wouldn’t call them courageous) but i find it hard to accept their analysis and pseudo apologies…am also amazed at the so called Pulitzer prize winners and other journalists and analysts who so assiduously avoided reporting or commenting on the unpalatable truth before, during and in the aftermath of the Iraqi Invasion…
…if their integrity and principles were alive they would not have succumbed so easily to such blatant maneuvering and spinning of the truth… al jazeera is not a paragon of virtue by any means…but it has lit and at least nourished a flicker of truth in reports emanating from the region…along with some help from non US media such as TVO, CBC, and some European networks…
rgds,
t
the US media…of its own volition or under coercion from the neoconziX was the real WMD--Weapon of Mass Deception on a scale never before carried out…
...yes Christian Amanpour and other journalists are slowly coming out of the closet…(wouldn’t call them courageous) but i find it hard to accept their analysis and pseudo apologies…am also amazed at the so called Pulitzer prize winners and other journalists and analysts who so assiduously avoided reporting or commenting on the unpalatable truth before, during and in the aftermath of the Iraqi Invasion…
…if their integrity and principles were alive they would not have succumbed so easily to such blatant maneuvering and spinning of the truth… al jazeera is not a paragon of virtue by any means…but it has lit and at least nourished a flicker of truth in reports emanating from the region…along with some help from non US media such as TVO, CBC, and some European networks…
rgds,
t
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