The Racist Within

The final paragraph of this article did not make any sense.

The Western society to my experience has been the most racist, although they claim they work for world peace yet the amount of racism between the White and Afro American bands is so obvious in all parts of the US for example...A white petrol station would shut off its petrol if a black drives in.......The Western society has to stop this hypocrisy and mend themselves

Hey Chowk!

What is it with your fascination for Edward Said, Said-wannabes and fellow travellers? This is at least the third such bit of tripe that I`ve read on Chowk in the last couple of months. IF you are so short of halfway decent or semi-intelligent writing, just say so and I`ll submit a piece!

What a waste of time and space.

fuzair

Please do submit an article.

fuzair:

forget said...he will survive on his own in death too...

but

yes write for chowk...you always make for an interesting read

..t

Ref fuzair #3

[Hey Chowk!
IF you are so short of halfway decent or semi-intelligent writing, just say so and I`ll submit a piece!]

You could always write about that mysterious and inaccessible city of Ottawa. Or about the cultural and artistic treasures of Ouagadougou. These should appeal to Chowk editors as well as a large part of Chowk readers.

;-)

Forget Pakistan - think of Mughalistan.
http://mughalstan.freeyellow.com/
Doctrines of the Mughalstan Movement
Pan-Islamism - All Muslims are regarded as Muslims, whether Sunni, Shiah, or Sufi. Sufists - whether Ahmadiya, Sikh or Nanak-Shahi, Qadiani or Zaydi are all considered Muslims. It is this Pan-Islamism which shall permit Mughalstan to hold together.
Mughal-Muslim Culture - Virtually all South Asian Muslims are regarded as Mughal-Muslim. All Urdu-speaking Muslims are considered the descendants of heroic Mughal-Muslim invaders; only 5 % ( Moplahs, Tamil Moros, etc.) are viewed as converted `Hindus`.
Mughal-Urdu Language - All dialects of Urdu are regarded as part of one language. Punjabi, Urdu, Musulmani Bengali, Musulmani Oudhi, Musulmani Sindhi, Musulmani Kashmiri are all regarded as dialects of Mughali (ie. Colloquial Urdu). Urdu is viewed as having been born in the camps of Mahmud-e-Ghazni; it is thus a derivative of Ghaznavid Persian and is not derived from Sanskrit as is taught in Brahminist school text books. Mughalstan Nationalists hold it to be the most refined language in the world.
1000-year Caliphate - The entire period from 945 AD - 1857 AD is viewed as forming one single empire, the Mughal Caliphate. Mahmud-e-Ghazni is viewed as founder of this Caliphate. Britishers and Brahminists destroyed this Caliphate to establish the Anglo-Brahmin colonial state. Delhi is viewed as the capital of this caliphate, which is thought to have been founded by Qutb-ud-din.
Apex of Civilization - The Mughal Caliphate is viewed as the greatest civilization and empire ever built in the history of the world. Longer-lasting than any nation in history, it was far richer and more splendid than any of the states before or since.

Fuzair

I understand that this piece is far below your intellectual level, infact its so far below it that your intellect is not able to counter or confirm the allegation within it. Or maybe it is you who this article talks about when it touches upon those who have become more committed to these western ideologues of orientalism and racism then those who concocted it.

#2 Durman.tk

We have to remind ourselves that it has only been 50 years since the the American Whites have found it in their hearts to give the Black equal standing(even that after a very intense movement of Civil Rights), something which is still exclusive to the cosmopolitan city centres than the majority of Middle America. Yet these people today send soldiers to Iraq from the Americas on the promise that if they survive this war they will be given American Citizenship. Racism has just changed not ended.

The author has certainly hit upon a strain of ideology among chowkies-the complete refusal to interrogate our political and economic complicities with Orientalism. My feeling is the Muslim Americans of my parent`s generation are much more willing to engage in the significances of current American domestic and international policy-even though they have spent at least 20 years in this country as taxpayers, contributors to various professional sectors and local communities. What we see expressed by some vocal Chowk interactors should not be taken as the Pakistani American opinion-there would be GREAT disagreement to the positions taken on Said or even this article.

I have asked some of this generation to interact on Chowk, apparently they`ve been to busy. Hopefully, a few will join us eventually.

Saminaasha

I agree with your views that Orientalism when applied to expats have taken a new dimension, something edward said briefly touched upon in Orientalism. In the perspective of the Subcontinental Minorities in the US, another factor that comes into play is the Success factor the Indian-Pakistani Minorities have enjoyed in states which reenforces this condition of ignorance towards Orientalism. Infact it cannot go without saying that these questions have only risen after the mass-suspiciousness of the brown skin Arab/Muslim Looking people post Sep 11. As one African American Author recently put it, We are the New Blacks.

The Majority of the Chowkies belong to this successful Expat community and therefore it is hard for many to question their part in the scheme of things. I mean to put crudely, why ask questions when blaming Bin Ladin and the fundo elements seem to be the easy way out.

Blah, blah, blah.

I have yet to see any substantive response from any Orientalism-lover (the thesis in it, I mean) to the different critiques of Said that I have put up. All I see is non-stop ad hominem arguments, the sure sign of a second-rate mind launching a third-rate defense of a bad idea.

I`ll ignore Wajahat`s blatherings since he has described himself (``sporadic Pseudo Intellectual Outbursts``) quite accurately. What more do I need to say?

``the sure sign of a second-rate mind launching a third-rate defense of a bad idea.``

I think this line killed off any potential interest I had in your viewpoint. You obviously belong to that group of people who have a Numb Superiority complex to any other view than yours. Your rating of my mind and my argument just goes on to show the impatience you have when hearing other people`s perspective. I am a believer that all minds and as you conveiniently rate them according to your hierarchy based outlook should be given a chance. That is what Chowk is famous for, it allows us , and i quote , Second Rated Minds to put up a Third Rated defense of a bad idea, It allows us to put up a question which is then countered or confirmed by all types of minds, and thus we all learn and grow from our perspective postion. If you feel that you have nothing constructive to add to the argument then leave us second rated minds alone and stay in the bourgeosie world that your have built for yourself and where you can extort and announce to everyone who is listening the superiority of your intellect and the First Rated mind that you possess. Actions Sir are what makes history, assasination and indictments are forgotten. If you were to put up a First Rated argument against my position, I would appreciate it, otherwise if all you want to achieve by these interactions are boost for your overinflated ego then you are obviously at the wrong Interacts. Good day

......... this multiculturalism stuff is for the birds - there is the right way, and then there is the wrong way ............ and you don`t have to be a genius to figure out which is which .......... the right way works, and the wrong way doesn`t ............ western civilization works, the rest sucks ........ most chinese businessmen in addition, to the hu`s and the peng`s, also have western names like timothy and thompson and the head-waggers in bangalore always answer, `` hello this is shane, how may i help you`` never ``this is vijaygranpatniviramtiva!``.............. the only person who is not willing to change is abdul, and so abdul remains mired in misery and as he gets more miserable he gets more obdurate and finally becomes abdullah !................

have a nice day,

harry

first of all, whoever lectured you on a multicultural society not being able to be racist is wrong. . .one can be racist in a multicultural society. . and one is.

but to answer your question, no, not all of us expatriates/immigrants have bought into the orientalist ideology such as that may be, but please be so good as to not accuse all of us expatriates/immigrants of contributing to `racist` ideologies with ignorant generalizations. the criticisms we have of our parts of the world are quite specific, and while we would like to present a wholesome beautiful picture of our countries to `the west`. . .we`re certainly not going to generalize about something as horrible as the hudood ordinance, and how women have suffered from that.
you seem to suggest that expatriates/immigrants buy into orientalist or racist ideology, but what you do not realize is that some of us carry racist ideologies with us upon emigrating. . .and not all of those can be blamed on the west. i do not think that the bigotry some of us feel towards arabs for example, or our notions of blackness being the lowest of the low, are thanks to the western hemisphere.

and with all due respect, it is not for you to tell us whether we have the right to bash issues that have significance in the deeper scheme of things or not. what are these issues that you are referring to? everyone has a right to an opinion, no matter how fascistic it sounds. all we can do is try to get through to them, and back up what we say.

i have no doubt that racism is well and alive in the media. . in hollywood, in many parts of america. we`ve seen shades of that ever since rudy valentino came out with `the sheik`. am not denying that. i just feel uncomfortable about the generalization about expatriates making ignorant generalizations. that`s quite an ignorant generalization in and of itself.

hamidm: *grin*

Syed Ali:

I will once more air my argument that the ONLY thing wrong with the east or Muslim countries is they don`t have independent institutions. Institutions are the bedrock for society to establish a foothold. In it`s absence, there is insecurity and fear. Thus even we end up being acceptably receptive to those tragedies aired on the media of those societies that have foundations. Our own tragedies are deemed less significant because we do not have anywhere to turn to in order to overcome the causes of the tragedy.

More and more I feel this `us and them` argument is utter krap. A Pakistani army man once told me that if Pakistan had the power, it would totally fuk up Afghanistan like no one has tried to do so before. The only problem is Pakistan does not have the power. In Muslim countres, western manipulation and domination should be of secondary concern than to how the societies are internally screwed up. I bet Muslims have massacared ten times as many fellow Muslims as any `western` society may have done so.

#14 Nooralain

You raised a valid point about my ironic generalisation of Expats but I was very careful to use the word ``Widely Held`` and I gave some very specific statements in reference to that. I personally hate generalisation of any kind and I apologise if I bring across this idea. The very fact that Anti-War Organisations and Relief NGOs in many western countries are run by Expats who invest their time and effort into working towards issues effecting the Muslim Nations. My Argument was aimed towards a large number of us who actually do come out strongly in support of the Western Imperialist Designs.

You also raised two very important points about Arabs and our Perception of the Blacks. How do we end up forming judgement about african americans or Blacks if you will without ever being exposed to one in Pakistan. It has always been one of the acquired racist outlooks emanating specially from Hollywood movies, Gangland Rap and the way western media portrays the Black Community. I personally came across a freind who was going out with Black Person , being held accountable by her parents and one of the very first arguments raised by the father was that if it had to be outside the community, why not white....Somebody recently wrote an article about Fair And Lovely Nation, the terms used for the precedence of whiter skin over black. I know these at some stage become trivial issues but arent these ignorant generalisation that form part of our collective identity.

About the Arabs, Our perceptions about them are a minefield, and most of them are quite true. The way Arab societies have transformed into this consumerist oil dependent entities is quite sad and mix that with their backward attitude towards race (Treatment of Subcontinental Workforce a case in point) it is ever so hard to give them any credit. Yet as diaspora communities we tend to discredit and bash before we try and look at the issues that are more important. My Article in a way also wanted (Lack of Skills on my Part) touch upon our interminable silence on many of the issues that needs our vocal presence. I am glad that you feel the way you feel and can be honest about a lot of issues, But dont you feel its also neccessary to air these issues and keep challenging each others perception until we arrive somewhere where we might even remotely resemble that overused term of UNITY. Infact that is my challenge to you, yes we are all different and hold different views but isnt it time that we really come to some conclusion as to where we can drive the collective fate of our regions. Our Silence, Our Disappointments and Our Misfortunes should not let us fade away from our responsibility, as expats we have the unique power to change things and attitudes and we should take on this responsibility however challenging our position might become.

# 15 Rozaiba

Your argument about lack of Independent institutions is absolutely the basis of some very major issues, therefore I coudnt agree with you more. I think the reason lies in your example of the Pak Army, and what is happening in Pakistan right now, Heil Musharraf`s Kingship nurturing a ToyStore Civilian Infrastructure which would further weaken our civilian governments for decades to come. Pakistanis have been as a nation so abused by everyone that we find ourselves continuously between a rock and a hard place. A corrupt Civilian Government or a Self Serving/Aggrandising Army Rule in Musharraf`s Case. I really recommend rozaiba that you study the Hammood-ur-Rehman Commision report and picture it builds that specially in Army, Governmental Power Corrupts and absolute Power corrupts Absolutely. Why have strong Institutions when you can depend on your local Army to do it for you, as long as you dont ask how they do it and what a mess they make of it. The first sign of this and in reference to media is the birth of several Channels that actually do not take the Govt. tow and signs of independent thought in the media are beggining to grow. ( The author is actually Involved in a Pilot show of News Discussion for the younger generation on one of the channels)

However I am not clear about your point about the enumeration of regional Killings. Should I give up on my culture and my region because they have killed so many people? Or is it even more important to engage myself in questionning the root causes of the ever exploding violence?

#13 Hamidm

Thank you for the manichean viewpoint, I think we needed some lightning up. Very well said I must say. :)