Why is the West so angry with Dr. Mahathir?

satyawadi#123:
I thought that I had aleady pointed out that I did not think that the hindus were the only ones to blame for the partition riots. Your other point is about the sikh psyche. Pardesi has provided a good backgound. Sikhs did feel cheated in the partition. The British had taken the power from them in 1840s. And yet when they left, sikhs were thrown out from practically all the areas that they had ruled; areas that formed their sacred land. They threw their lot completely with the hindus and India. But soon after partition, Panjab got embroiled in a language dispute which pitted hindus against the sikhs, with hindus unfortunately prefering hindi to their mothertongue. This was the first phase of hindu-sikh alienation. This was the time when I asked my brother, a sikh, whether it was a good thing for our family unity to be divided along the hindu-sikh line. But despite this irritant, sikhs never felt alienated from India until 1984. I could go on, but I hope you understand where I am coming from.

Abdus Salam Jhangvi -- for Pakistan to love Salam -- Abdus Salam was unfortunately no Sipah-e Sehba Jhangvi....

certainly a BLINDNESS afflicts Pakistan -- what Germany did to Einstein -- Pakistan did to its Einstein Salam -- Qadr-e gauhar shah daanud ya bu daanud jauhree --

just look at Abdus Salam`s CV:

Abdus Salam – Curriculum Vitae
Date of birth: 29 January, 1926
Place of birth: Jhang, Pakistan

Educational Career
Government College, Jhang and Lahore (1938- 1946) M.A. (Panjab University)
Foundation Scholar, St. John`s College, Cambridge (1946- 1949) B.A. Honours Double first in Mathematics (Wrangler) and Physics
Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge (1952) Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics

Awarded Smith`s Prize by the University of Cambridge for ``the most outstanding pre-doctoral contribution to Physics`` (1950)

D.Sc. Honoris Causa
Panjab University, Lahore (1957)
University of Edinburgh (1971)
Panjab University, Lahore (Pakistan) (1957)
University of Edinburgh (UK) (1971)
University of Trieste (Italy) (1979)
University of Islamabad (Pakistan) (1979)
Universidad Nacional de Ingenieria, Lima (Peru) (1980)
University of San Marcos, Lima (Peru) (1980)
National University of San Antonio Abad, Cuzco (Peru) (1980)
Universidad Simon Bolivar, Caracas (Venezuela) (1980)
University of Wroclow (Poland) (1980)
Yarmouk University (Jordan) (1980)
University of Istanbul (Turkey) (1980)
Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar (India) (1981)
Muslim University, Aligarh (India) (1981)
Hindu University, Banaras (India) (1981)
University of Chittagong (Bangladesh) (1981)
University of Bristol (UK) (1981)
University of Maiduguri (Nigeria) (1981)
University of the Philippines, Quezon City (Philippines) (1982)
University of Khartoum (Sudan) (1983)
Universidad Complutense de Madrid (Spain) (1983)
City College, City University of New York (USA) (1984)
University of Nairobi (Kenya) (1984)
Universidad Nacional de Cuyo (Argentina) (1985)
Universidad Nacional de la Plata (Argentina) (1985)
University of Cambridge (UK) (1985)
University of Goteborg (Sweden) (1985)
Kliment Ohridski University of Sofia (Bulgaria) (1986)
University of Glasgow (UK) (1986)
University of Science and Technology, Hefei (China) (1986)
The City University, London (UK) (1986)
Panjab University, Chandigarh (India) (1987)
Medicina Alternativa, Colombo (Sri Lanka) (1987)
National University of Benin, Cotonou (Benin) (1987)
University of Exeter (UK) (1987)
University of Gent (Belgium) (1988)
``Creation`` International Association of Scientists and Intelligentsia (USSR) (1989)
Bendel State University, Ekpoma (Nigeria) (1990)
University of Ghana (Ghana) (1990)
University of Warwick (UK) (1991)
University of Dakar (Senegal) (1991)
University of Tucuman (Argentina) (1991)
University of Lagos (Nigeria) (1992)


Awards

Hopkins Prize (Cambridge University) for ``the most outstanding contribution to Physics during 1957-1958``
Adams Prize (Cambridge University) (1958)
First recipient of Maxwell Medal and Award (Physical Society, London) (1961)
Hughes Medal (Royal Society, London) (1964)
Atoms for Peace Medal and Award (Atoms for Peace Foundation) (1968)
J. Robert Oppenheimer Memorial Medal and Prize (University of Miami) (1971)
Guthrie Medal and Prize (1976)
Matteuci Medal (Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Rome) (1978)
John Torrence Tate Medal (American Institute of Physics) (1978)
Royal Medal (Royal Society, London) (1978)
Einstein Medal (UNESCO, Paris) (1979)
Shri R.D. Birla Award (India Physics Association) (1979)
Josef Stefan Medal (Josef Stefan Institue, Ljublijana) (1980)
Gold Medal for Outstanding Contributions to Physics (Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences, Prague) (1981)
Lomonosov Gold Medal (USSR Academy of Sciences) (1983)
Copley Medal (Royal Society, London) (1990)


Appointments

Professor, Government College and Panjab University, Lahore (1951- 1954)
Elected Fellow St. John`s College, Cambridge (1951-1956)
Member, Institute of Advanced Study, Princeton (1951)
Lecturer, Cambridge University (1954-1956)
Professor of Theoretical Physics, London University, Imperial College, London, since 1957
Director, International Centre for Theoretical Physics, Trieste, since 1964
Elected (First) Fellow of the Royal Society, London, from Pakistan (1959)
Elected, Foreign Member of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences (1970)
Elected, Foreign Member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences (1971)
Elected, Foreign Member, USSR Academy of Sciences (1971)
Elected, Honorary Fellow St. John`s College, Cambridge (1971)
Elected, Foreign Associate, USA National Academy of Sciences (Washington) (1979)
Elected, Foreign Member, Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Rome) (1979)
Elected, Foreign Member, Accademia Tiberina (Rome) (1979)
Elected, Foreign Member, Iraqi Academy (Baghdad) (1979)
Elected, Honorary Fellow, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (Bombay) (1979)
Elected, Honorary Member, Korean Physics Society (Seoul) (1979)
Elected, Foreign Member, Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco (Rabat) (1980)
Elected, Foreign Member, Accademia Nazionale delle Scienze dei XL (Rome) (1980)
Elected, Member, European Academy of Science, Arts and Humanities (Paris) (1980)
Elected, Associate Member, Josef Stefan Institute (Ljublijana) (1980)
Elected, Foreign Fellow, Indian National Science Academy (New Delhi) (1980)
Elected, Fellow, Bangladesh Academy of Sciences (Dhaka) (1980)
Elected, Member, Pontifical Academy of Sciences (Vatican City) (1981)
Elected, Corresponding Member, Portuguese Academy of Sciences (Lisbon) (1981)
Founding Member, Third World Academy of Sciences (1983)
Elected, Corresponding Member, Yugoslav Academy of Sciences and Arts (Zagreb) (1983)
Elected, Honorary Fellow, Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences (1984)
Elected, Honorary Member, Polish Academy of Sciences (1985)
Elected, Corresponding Member, Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala (1986)
Elected, Fellow, Pakistan Academy of Medical Sciences (1987)
Elected, Honorary Fellow, Indian Academy of Sciences (Bangalore) (1988)
Elected, Distinguished International Fellow of Sigma Xi (1988)
Elected, Honorary Member, Brazilian Mathematical Society (1989)
Elected, Honorary Member, National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina (1989)
Elected, Honorary Member, Hungarian Academy of Sciences (1990)
Elected, Member, Academia Europaea (1990)


Orders and other Distinctions

Order of Andres Bello (Venezuela) (1980)
Order of Istiqlal (Jordan) (1980)
Cavaliere di Gran Croce dell`Ordine al Merito della Repubblica Italiana (1980)
Honorary Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire (1989)

Awards for contributions towards peace and promotion of international scientific collaboration
Atoms for Peace Medal and Award (Atoms for Peace Foundation) (1968)
Peace Medal (Charles University, Prague) (1981)
Premio Umberto Biancomano (Italy) (1986)
Dayemi International Peace Award (Bangladesh) (1986)
First Edinburgh Medal and Prize (Scotland) (1988)
``Genoa`` International Development of Peoples Prize (Italy) (1988)
Catalunya International Prize (Spain) (1990)

United Nations Assignments
Scientific Secretary, Geneva Conferences on Peaceful Uses of Atomic Energy (1955 and 1958)
Member, United Nations Advisory Committee on Science and Technology (1964-1975)
Member, United Nations Panel and Foundation Committee for the United Nations University (1970-1973)
Chairman, United Nations Advisory Committee on Science and Technology (1971-1972)
Member, Scientific Council, SIPRI, Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (1970)
Vice President, International Union of Pure and Applied Physics
(1972-1978)

Pakistan Assignments
Member, Atomic Energy Commission, Pakistan (1958-1974)
Adviser, Education Commission, Pakistan (1959)
Member, Scientific Commission, Pakistan (1959)
Chief Scientific Adviser, President of Pakistan (1961-1974)
President, Pakistan Association for Advancement of Science (1961-1962)
Chairman, Pakistan Space and Upper Atmosphere Committee (1961-1964)
Governor from Pakistan to the International Atomic Energy Agency(1962-1963)
Member, National Science Council, Pakistan (1963-1975)
Member, Board of Pakistan Science Foundation (1973-1977)

Pakistani Awards
Sitara-i-Pakistan (S.Pk.)
Pride of Performance Medal and Award (1959)

From Les Prix Nobel 1979.

Abdus Salam died in 1996.

{#148 by satyavadi on November 1, 2003 9:40am PT
Dostmittar, Harpreet:: No comments on my #127? -Satyavadi}


Satyavadi, this may help you a bit.

Sikhs (mostly Hindu followers) were simple non-militant disciples of Guru Nanak, and the subsequent eight Gurus, until our ninth Guru (Guru Teg Bahadur) was beheaded by Aurangzeb in Delhi. The reason he went to Delhi was to urge Aurangzeb not to force conversion of Kashmiri Pandits. Before this time, Sikhs were kind of left alone by Delhi rulers. The fifth Guru was also martyred (Guru Arjun Dev) but that was by Lahore Governor with his Hindu wazir (Chandu) taking the lead and is a whole another story.

After ninth Guru’s sacrifice, Guru Gobind Singh created the militant form of Sikhism to meet the need of the hour. Essentially all Hindu families “donated” their eldest sons to become Sikh soldiers and turban/beard was more like a uniform. Over time, many families like mine, converted wholesale to Sikhism just out of love/respect for the Gurus and simplicity of the religion.

So, depending upon your view point, Sikh lovers can say Sikhs were (no more in this technology era) sword arm of Hinduism, who protected Hinduism in north India (Just fyi, within one hundred years of formation of militant Sikhism, almost all of Pakistan except perhaps Sindh/Balochistan and Indian Punjab/Haryana/HimachalPradesh/Kashmir became part of Sikh empire with Lahore as its capital. This was very significant since Mogul rulers were beaten right at the heart of their empire).

On the other hand, if you are a Sikh hater, or envious of them for any reason, you can say hey, they fought for them selves like today’s soldiers/chowkidars fight for wages. Who needs these turkeys any more. Right? They are just 2% and they should be happy that we Hindus do not hate them as much as Muslims and they should thank us for letting them live in ``our Hindu nation``.

Rehashing history does not do people any good. No one owes any one anything for past acts of bravery or whatever. Open economy, thanks to 1991 reforms, will channel people’s energies in right direction (Hopefully, India will also evolve in law and order area over time). Sikhs will take care of themselves. They have great history, supreme confidence in themselves, tremendous energy, and adaptability to adjust to the changing realities and do not need any one’s sympathies. 1984 has taught them quite a few lessons. More some other time.

Nazar 145,

South had been relatively peaceful. In fact calicut where I live was ruled by the samoothiris for more than thousand years till the indian independance. In fact samoothiris still get some privy purse, because they struck a deal with the english east india company, which still exists. All the others who struck deals with the british govt lost out.

Tahmed you have to grow up. The late bilal ahmed had this notion, Pkaistanis will not tolerate external criticism, but internal is OK.

No one in pakistan will dare to tell the truth about pakistan. Look at YLH article on chowk now, and you will find that he still asserts there are roads and building named after abdus salam, while according to hamidm there is no such thing.
Now Tahmed, as a honest upright man as you claim to be , Can you say who is correct, hamidm or YLH?
As a so called decent man, it is not good to indulge in name calling, and is indicative of you limited vocabulary. By the way who is Thackey. If you want a malayalam name call me `` Sakhave``

hamidm2 #146 Do we really need jay to remind us of our many shortcomings? The energetic debates on all sorts of issues related to pakistan by pakistani posters are proof that there is no lack of awareness of our problems and no lack of diversity of opinion. Posters from India are certainly very welcome and many of them can and do certainly enrich the discussion by providing an Indian perspective. But jay and the rest of the Thakerays on chowk who make their presence felt by the quantity - not quality - of their posts are not among these posters. They just create noise and detract from any intelligent discussion.

The dogs of mohmand may indeed be better than the mohmands themselves. and better than the bangash. I must remember to get me one of these wonder dogs next time i am in pakistan. (as long as the dog is not so good that it expects me to run and fetch the ball while it sits and philosophizes).

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Dostmittar, Harpreet::

No comments on my #127?

-Satyavadi

#142 gujjubania

[quote]
You know who I am talking about - The JNU/AMU rats , the 120 million or so katuas whose heart beats for Pakistan , Palestine , Babri Masjod and Kashmir (in that order) , the worthless Biharis , the lethargic Bengali Babus , the anti-progress socialists , the China-worshiping communists , the Sonia-worshipping congresswadis , the 2 million bloodsucking parasites also known as government servants who plague our corrupt administration and loss making public sector units and last but not the least , the traitors who masquerade as journalists.
[end-quote]

Maro, Maro, kill them, burn them.... RIGHT?

Listening to your poisonous and hate-filled output, I truly begin to realize how dangerous the extremist indians such as you and Modi and Togadia really are. I can see that they can may really end up destroying our country. Like them you have not a single constructive suggestion, not one plan to go forward, NOTHING. ZERO. But your language is full of hatred towards the ``others``: muslim, bengalis, biharis, ...

You are no different from the angrezi-speaking jihad-supporting friends from across the border. The same disrespect for others, the same ignorance and lack of real education.

tahmed,

.......... all right, so jay is an idiot, but you must admit that like those pesky fruit flies and garden slugs, he serves a useful purpose by reminding us pakis of our many faults .......... everyone complains about him bringing up abdus salaam but no one has yet proven him wrong by pointing to anything named after him - not even ylh ............ is it a big deal?.........for some it might not be but i think it is symptomatic of a fundamental flaw in paki society and values .............

......... it might be archie bunkeresque, but i do believe that there are certain general character traits that identify groups of people ............. i know it is not politically correct, and we can get into all kinds of unnecessary debates about why the afghans and the bushmen continue to be stuck on the lower rungs of evolution, but the fact remains that some groups are doing better than others .........and south indians, inspite of eating terrible food, are generally nicer people than the rabble rousing northeners............. we have to recognize this difference before we can go about analyzing the causes and coming up with a solution ..............

.....and it is not just me ......... my gandfather, who was born in kandahar, used to quote khushal khan khattak :

the dogs of the mohmands are better than the bangash,
though the mohmands themselves are a thousand times worse than the dogs

............ who am i to disagree .............

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hamidm #140 who knows and who cares what a poster is like in real life? one can only go by what he or she writes on chowk. this man (Jay) is obsessed with defaming a community of people (pakistanis) to the point of derangement - and he has been at it consistently for the past three years. if this isnt mean spirited, i dont know what is. in real life, what is the difference between him and the individuals who incite mobs by demonizing entire communities?

as for his decency (and again, limited to evidence on chowk with no comments on his real life one way or another): twice i caught him lying about me and both times, when I challenged him to cut and paste anything i had ever written on chowk to back his claim, he quietly disappeared from the thread. no apologies, no acknowledgement that he was wrong. that is not decency.

there are many people who have demonstrated decency on chowk, but this man is not one of them: ylh once attributed something to me, and when he could not back what he said he immediately apologized for his mistake. That is decency. There are people like stuka who are proud of their national heritage, but also have the generosity of spirit to appreciate pakistanis too. That is decency. Not this monotonous, dimwitted, demonization of pakistanis by Jay and his obvious desire to see pakistanis suffer (as if the poor people of pakistan dont suffer enough, while his highness sits in his comfortable home in the US).

i too know many south indians and others in real life and have worked closely with people from perhaps over a hundred different countries at one time or another over a period of more than two decades. if there is one thing i have learnt, it is that decent people and scumbags are to be found in every nationality and every community - this stereotyping about whites being like this and desis being like that is hogwash and you need to get real on this matter. we dont need an archie bunker on chowk.

The Satanic Jews vs the Satanic Muslims

``Mahathir is being faulted for stating the obvious: the Jews, through centuries of planning and concerted action are today in control of the world—because of their choke-hold on global economy—and also ruling it, indirectly, because of their lock on the policies of the world’s only super power.`` (Ambassador KK Ghori)

``We`re a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christian, and the enemy is a guy named Satan.`` (General Boykin)

ALL Jews and ALL Muslims -- not even the Satanic Zionists or the Satanic Islamists --

this is called painting with the million/billion mile broad brush -- and creating picasso pieces of thumb nail arts...

kharee Issa agar bu makka rawad chooN beayes hunooz khar bashad

Hamidm2 # 140

(......... in my dealing with indians from the south i have found them to be remarkably different from us uncouth and incorrigible northeners............)

There is some history behind it. Areas constituting Pakistan (especially Punjab) have been under the same Rule many a time in the history with the Indian North. They have also mutually faught with each other. These were richer Indus plains & Gangetic plains. They were hiearchial with class differences and were fighting types.

(Areas constituting Pakistan (especially Punjab) have been also part of the Western kingdoms - Afghans, Persians, Turks.)

But the Indian South pretty much remained isolated and in peace for long periods - busy with its own progress in Astronomy & Algebra - and of music, dances & temples. And ocean going commerce.

I think the Indian South only linked up with the Indus and Ganges people during Ashoka, Chandra Gupta Mauriya and the British.

So the Indian South people are different from both - the Ganges people as well as the Indus people - Mentally at a higher level and with a low profile temprament.

Islamic countries.

Pakistanis on chowk are all the time citing Turkey as an islamic country. A few weeks ago, vajpaye was in Turkey to name a major street in its capital to be named after Rabindranath Tagore. Can this ever happen in pakistan an islamic country, well why not make a start with Abdus Salam.
Then of course there is the islamic country of malaysia, I know that one of its cabinet ministers is a hindu. Can this happen in islamic republic of pakistan.

There are muslim countries, and there is pakistan. People like stuka and others who talk of indi pak similarity has to accept the fact that bipeds look same, some are homo sapiens, others are homo eructus pakistanis cus. They look similar, but the difference is himalayan.

tahmed,

.......... if it works for god and rush limbaugh why wouldn`t it work for me?.......... a little self promotion goes a long way - i don`t know to what end..... but still.........

.......... in any case, i will bet you that jay is probably the nicest guy on chowk .......... being a civilized madrasi i can`t imagine him being really mean spirited ......... in my dealing with indians from the south i have found them to be remarkably different from us uncouth and incorrigible northeners............ they almost think like white people - it is scary!

hamidm #135 i see i am back in your bad books. It appears this is the result of my pointing out that in applauding Jay Thakeray`s rantings about all of us pakis being jehadis and murderers, and while posting your umpteenth post referring to Romair as Captain Clueless, you had unwittingly proved yourself to have become General Seriously Unglued.

Incidentally Romair may write on and on and on and on about this, that and everything plus the kitchen sink ...but ...you have pulled ahead of him now. You my friend have pulled another first on chowk - applauding your own post!! You sure Cousin Jay didnt mix some of his lithium in your drink, giving you this special high where you start applauding yourself??