Orissa: A Gujarat in the making

gujjubania:
``That is not as preposterous as you make it to be. The the frankly anti-India viewpoints of the likes of Roy/Bidwai/Nayyar/Pankaj Mishra(of the `Indian Army killed the 36 Sikhs in J&K` fame) are widely published in Pak media (more than even by the Indian media) - their articles/columns are more often than not used by Pak diplomats in international forums as a proof of Indian culpability in various issues - (`hey when an Indian like Arundirty Roy talks about India becoming a Nazi-like state or about attrocities commited by Indian armed forces in Kashmir etc....that must be true , right ?`) . Infact these characters are even quoted by Mian Musharaf in his various tirades against India. ``

...Indians too quote Mazdak, Ayaz Amir, Najam Sethi, Asma Jehangir and others when they want to point out to the problems of the Pakistani society; Noam Chomsky, Eric Margolis, etc. are read more widely abroad than they are in the US. Tolerance of dissidence is the strength of open societies, not their weakness.
Angana Chatterjee`s article is certainly one-sided and biased, as I pointed out in my interact#1. So, let us point out those biases, if we can, with facts, figures and logic. Those who are already biased against India/hindus will merely have their biased confirmed, those who feel she is out to get them will get inflamed, but there are a large number of readers out there who are open minded and willing to look at an issue without prejudice and bias; these should be our target audience.

``No idea - but if I was given a choice of selecting my Hindu caste , I would certainly be a Dalit/Tribal/SC/ST or what some people crassly refer to as `untouchables` or `shudra` .

I bet you are saying this because you are not one! How many upper castes Hindus do you know who say in their daily prayers, ``Oh Lord, make me a shudra in my next life!``? Reservations/quota is not the only reality in a dalit`s life. I do not know the contemporary scene but I am aware of not so long ago when, even with quotas, the reserved positions went unfilled because there were not enough dalits who met even the minimum qualifications. Are dalits better fed and clothed than the upper castes? Would you like to be a dalit in Bihar and Orissa and live in the fear of attacks by the upper castes if you used their water? Do you remember how some dalits in Haryana were lynched in front of the police station because someone spread the false rumour that they had skinned a cow? And do you remember that a VHP leader said that the cow was more important than the lives of those killed? Do you know what is the statistical probability of someone born dalit finishing a college education compared to that of one born in the upper caste, reservations/quotas notwithstanding? So, gujjubania, I dont know about you but I am sure glad I was not born in a dalit family.

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Harmau # 34

Like all writers, Agana`s article also seems to be a bit exaggerated. She has not balanced it by putting in some text on the countervailing forces. I know India is not in a frenzy on this issue.

But an extremist religious fringe is present in all religions. Its quantity in Islam is perhaps on a much wider and institutional scale.

But its presence in India must be recognized - and this the first step towards curbing it. That is precisely the intent of Agana.

Hinduism has liberal, fuzzy and tolerant concepts - some things that I like. This liberal ethos of Hinduism should not be hijacked by a few - and at present, it is no where close to that stage of a criticle mass - an impression that a general reader might get from this article.

I stick to my contention that all formal dogmas are rough on a woman.

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pmishra2,

i had no intention of insulting hinduism whatsoever. as a religion i respect hindusim but i definitely find sangh parivar`s agenda divisive and hateful. so there is a distinction between my attitude towards the religion and towards RSS and company. you started the sarcasm and i replied in kind.

all i asked you was a question ``what would be the caste of a newly converted hindu? can he/she be a brahmin?`` and you assigned me quiet a few labels ``ignorant``, ``illiterate``,``spiteful ignoramus`` and so on. i must have touched a nerve and maybe you dont have a answer.

I sure hope that more Indians listen to people like Angana.

Too much Bull in some of the interacts.

Ras

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gujjubania:
``I won`t be too surprised if these characters ( Chatterjee , Arundirty Roy , Praful Bidwai , Teesta Seetalvad etc ) are on the ISI payroll.``
This is absurd! One can disagree with these individuals and their ideologies. Sure, they have leftist leanings and do not like the current political trends in India. But accusing them of being on the ISI payroll is really crossing the bounds.

To chowk staff: What is the point of publishing secondhand articles of authors who are not there to defend themselves or their views? It is not fair to them or to their readers.

ijaz_gul #23

Mr. Gul, when you, a certified Christian dhimmi, come to Chowk to defend the land of Pure Muslims, don`t you think anything - ANYTHING AT ALL - is possible?

Best regards :)

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#43/#44 yagacho/pmishra
this seems to be a legally important question. if one converts to be a scheduled caste or nomadic tribe, certain benefits are available, perhaps?. else, its relevence is mainly for answering matrimonials. the commerce of roti is of low relevence, but that of beti is not. in village based conflicts, conversions will make little difference to the conflicting parties. in caste politics (yadav etc), conversions again wont matter much.

do you not understand English? Now go pat yourself on your ass for having won this argument!

#42 ixno (aka hypocrite)

Why don`t you first answer my question: Do you support the right of muslims and christians to promote themselves as the one true religion and aggressively convert others? And if so, what is the difference between them and what Angana devi is describing here?

This is the second time I have asked the question. Why are you unable to give an answer? Maybe it has to do with a word that begins with an h...

#44 yagacho

I am happy to see that you take the matter of your caste so seriously. By all means declare yourself a brahmin or a Syed or a pure WASP or anything you like. In my experience, only the most backward-looking people are interested in these distinctions. But then that is your free choice...


As I had thought, your interest in hindu tradition is actually ZERO. You have never been to India but are full of advice to us about India and its traditions. In spite of your deep ignorance you are happy to insult us with various trivial details (monkeys, whatever).

And you pretend that you want to have a discussion with us! Why should we discuss anything with a spiteful ignoramus like you? A person who indulges in cheap sterotypes and is proud of their illiteracy and ignorance of other traditions?