Resistance is the first step towards Iraqi independence

re:#213 by soysauce
I always have believed that Gujarat carnage is a bad chapter in Indian secularism. It was not just a tit for tat response by a mob. It went beyond that. It involved the local civic administration, police, local poiticians etc. I hope something like this never gets repeated.
Sridhar

Ref Sudalaikkannu #213

[Listen to likes of Harimau Iyer who say that the muslims got what was coming to them.... to realize how deep the rot is getting to be among middle-class hindus.]

You can read all my posts regarding Gujarat. I said that Modi would have to be seen as serving out retribution for the Godhra incident if he wanted to get re-elected.

Of course, with the education you got from attending the schools in Tamil Nadu, I don`t expect any comprehension of the English language or logic.

#212 rsridhar
I think gujarat was qualitatively very different. The looting was not done by characters who just happened to be around when shops were being put to the torch with its owners pulled out and killed. Rather these were middle-class hindus who hopped into their vehicles with the specific goal of looting the shops, and driving away with the goods. These were calculated, not impulsive acts. It`s said that the middle class is the conscience of the nation, it being more representative than other groups. Going by that gujarat is a rotten place indeed.
If you read the history of Sati you`ll find that ordinary hindus accepted it as a fact of life. I bring this up to argue that the acceptance of murderous behavior on the part of hindus as somehow limited in scope and situation can be dangerous. Listen to likes of Harimau Iyer who say that the muslims got what was coming to them or the likes of Satish who say it was no big deal to realize how deep the rot is getting to be among middle-class hindus.

re:#208 by soysauce
Whenever pogroms happen, unruly elements take over. I was a witness to riots after Mrs Indira Gandhi fell to an assasins bullets. The death itself was declared late in the evening (around 5 pm i think). All hell broke loose and rioting started. I was in Connaught Place with a Malaysian friend who was doing internship with me. Street urchins and the Gujjar community started looting T.V, VCR, Stereo etc from the shops. My friend picked up an item for himself: a small souvenir, he called it!
That looting had nothing to do with the riots. Riots that followed were carefully planned by the Congress hoodlums.
Sridhar

``BAGHDAD, Iraq, Nov. 14 — The Bush administration has agreed to restore independence to Iraq as early as next June, apparently hoping the move will change the perception of the United States as an occupying power and curb the mounting attacks on American forces in the country, Iraqi and American officials said Friday.``

``Resistance is the first step towards Iraqi independence``
Tariq Ali

Indeed -- NOT the `Governing Council`......

Ref Hindu-means-Thief-according-to-a-Persian-Dictionary #208

[There were widespread reports that during the pogrom on muslims in allhabad & elsewhere, middle & upper caste hindus drove up to muslim shops and helped themselves. I have always wondered if ordinary hindus could become so callous, lowest of the low and I wonder no more after reading your post.]

I landed in Chennai on Dec 29, 1986. The Darling of the Dravidian Masses, the Arnold Schwarzenegger of Tamil Cinema, Dr. MGR had died on Dec 25. Because the masses were so overwhelmed by the death of their leader, in their grief they helped themselves to anything they could get their hands on from the shops on Mount Road. The shopowners had tried to use close their stores using rolling shutters but unfortunately they had installed the kind that had panels of clear plastic so that passersby could still see what is inside the store. The mobs broke through the plastic and then used poles to break the display windows which were a couple of feet away from the shutters and reach inside them for the shirts, trousers and saris on display.

But this was a multi-religious mob robbing stores owned primarily by Hindus so this should be okay. Also, the cause was mourning the death of a DMK leader which makes it the right thing to do.

Shut the fcuk up and stop polluting Chowk with your inanities.

Soysauce

whether one is a Hindu or a Muslim -- Christian, or Jewish or a Buddhist -- when one becomes part of a mob -- one becomes the Primal Primitive raging monstrous barbarian -- our civlization of ONLY 5 thousand years -- is only skin deep...

Hasanji, here`s one for you:
There were two stark lessons in the history of the 20th century: no nation that launched a war against another sovereign nation ever won. And every nationalist-based insurgency against a foreign occupation ultimately succeeded. This is not to say anything about whether or not the United States should have gone into Iraq or whether the insurgency there is a lasting one. But it indicates how difficult the situation may become.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/weekinreview/09BEAR.html

#203
There were widespread reports that during the pogrom on muslims in allhabad & elsewhere, middle & upper caste hindus drove up to muslim shops and helped themselves. I have always wondered if ordinary hindus could become so callous, lowest of the low and I wonder no more after reading your post.

````Haroon Siddiqui, an emeritus editor at the Toronto Star says a ``subdued`` President Bush reminds him of the Shah of Iran, the U.S.-backed tyrant who was overthrown by the Shiite fundamentalists in 1979.

``Living in the cocoon of his court, the `king of kings` got angry when told in the fall of 1978 that a populist revolution was well underway. The warning had been triggered by a million-person march in Tehran. He went up in a helicopter, saw the sea of humanity below and plunged into a deep depression. Three months later, he was gone.

``There`s no knowing yet if Bush will be toast in the election still a year away. But there`s no mistaking the signals that disastrous news from Iraq and beyond is piercing the presidential bubble.`` ````(Washington Post)

Bush WILL be toast in the election 2004....the bubble WILL burst.....Twelve Months later the Stupido will be gone....like a bad dream the nightmare will be over...

the countdown has begun..

``````Spengler,`` a columnist for Asia Times, a smart new Hong Kong-based news site, says ``America is losing the intelligence war.``

He argues that the rocket attack on the hotel of deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz last month indicates that ``the Iraqi resistance has infiltrated the American command.``

``That should be no surprise,`` he says, ``given that the occupiers depend on local sources for information, and have little capacity to distinguish a repentant Ba`athist from a saboteur.`` ````(Washington Post)

a spicy headline in Washington Post: ``Georgians Want President to Resign``....:-)

Resign George Bush RESIGN......the Georgians wants you to RESIGN...

Stuka


Congratulations!! You absolutely demolished the strawman you constructed. That was brave.

But for lower order beings like us, they were communal riots, and not `pogroms` which your lurid imagination conceives sitting there.The riots were started by both communities and looting, hacking .... was done by both. People from both communities were killed. The riots in Gujrat were neither more bloody, nor more one sided, nor more or less abetted by politicians of various hues than many many others before them.

What gets to people like me is your absolute dependence on the same `Angana` like channels of news that you (being a self-declared rightist) claim to oppose. That, and the hectoring, patronising tone that comes with having lived in the `west` for some years and hence knowing better and having become better human beings (leftists or rightists).

I cant speak for gujjubaniya, but faced with such irritating behaviour, I feel like writing the same things he writes. And dont worry, we dont have to really think whether `fascism` and `free market` can live together, this `fascism` being another of your strawmen.

As per your guesses about my H1B etc. there is no point in talking about it as you have no means to know who or what I am and I have neither means nor inclination to prove anything to you. My point was just to convey how happy I have been, and that wouldn`t have been the case if the repatriation was forced. By the way, I wasn`t in US, but in Europe.
I wrote those lines to be taken as true statements, but if you dont , then just disregard them.

Satyavadi: While I do not dispute the veracity of your posts, I would feel better if you directed some of your outrage against those who spew invective against non Gujarati fellow Indians as well. As you are well aware, neither Sridhar and I are Muslim or Pakistani, but we stand up to such idiotic talk that Gujjubania throws around.

Satish:

``he is also a `Baniya` and that automatically removes him from Testosterone sploshing, Body-organ-size-measuring, Baniya hating, REAL (Momin or Pseudo-momin) Punjabbi gabru society.``


But different from the Muslim killing, hacking, raping, looting, hating Gujju Baniya. BTW, do not have the supposition that the term ``Baniya`` has anything to do with free market economy. People who are true capitalists believe in competition, healthy one, that is. They believe in sustainable win-win situations. Unlike the Baniyas on this board for whom success is defined by the acquisition of personal wealth through killing defenceless victims and feeling proud and boasting about it.

As far as your thinking that fascism and free enterprise can go together, what can one say but: Vinaash Kale Vipreet Budhi. I am sure staunch Hindutvawadis like you will understand.



``They left India years ago when it used to be a country populated by (and ruled by) losers. They haven`t caught the bug of hope and optimism that we have. ``

So did Gurcharan Das. LOL!!


``I recently returned to Bangalore after quite a few years in `first world`, and believe me, I have never been so happy in my life before.``

Translation: I got laid off from my H1B job and had to go back so Ii am suffering from acute syndrome of sour grapes.

Dost-Mittar ji

Gurcharan Das may be a punjabi, but he is also a `Baniya` and that automatically removes him from Testosterone sploshing, Body-organ-size-measuring, Baniya hating, REAL (Momin or Pseudo-momin) Punjabbi gabru society.

Gujubaniya

Dont worry if the `Indians` on this site dont get where you are coming from. They left India years ago when it used to be a country populated by (and ruled by) losers. They haven`t caught the bug of hope and optimism that we have. Also, they have a vested interest in holding on to the world that used to be - first world - bright, rich, happy, and the third - gloomy, starving, dangerous. If this picture changes, what have they achieved in life and what are they doing over there in dark, cold places where people look, feel, speak and live different?

I recently returned to Bangalore after quite a few years in `first world`, and believe me, I have never been so happy in my life before. I am writing this sitting in my office somewhere upstate NY where I am for a business visit, and I cant wait to get back to my warm, sunny Bangalore in a couple of weeks.