Resistance is the first step towards Iraqi independence

Sohail, 182

Since Chowk Staff does not want the topic of Ethnicity to be discussed on this board, I`ve opened this topic ``Punjabis and Others`` at Chaathouse Unplugged. I`d welcome your, or anyone else`s, comments there.

Despite the stern warning from Chowkstaff (#181) I would like to humbly comment on a remark lamenting ethnic pride among South Asians.

#164 [``...It’s truly sad ... world is getting away from the curse of ethnicity... if Chowk... a gauge, South Asia... is emphasizing ethnicity. ...a cancer that destroys the social fabric of a nation. ...South Asia is doomed... with its emphasis on ethnicity.``]

Further down the interactor (godot) writes that this ``destroys nations`` and goes on to imply that this `divide and destory` tactic is working to ``someone else`s`` advantage, though he never says whose?

First of all, there are not just two, three, four or five nations in South Asia. One can argue that Bangaladesh and Nepal are nations in the correct sense of the term, but not the other countries. Even Sri Lanka has a hard time convincing everyone of being ONE nation. But I suspect, the interactor wasn`t thinking of Bangladesh or Nepal or even Sri Lanka. I suspect he had Pakistan and Bharat on his mind. To suggest that those two are two NATIONS is to totally divorce one`s self from reality and buy into a state-sponsored fiction.

South Asia is much like the European continent where multiple nations reside side by side. For a few odd occasions (sometimes lasting decades or even a century or two at a time) during its history large parts of Europe were consolidated under one empire and several nations were brought to be subjects of the particular empire of the day. Rome, Hapsburgs, Third Reich and the Soviet system come to mind. However, as soon as the compelling force dissipated, the various nations took charge of their own affairs, yet continued to be Europeans and ulimately saw the wisdom of cooperating with each other.

South Asia is similar. For a few odd occasions (sometimes lasting decades or even a century or two at a time) during its history large parts of South Asia were consolidated under one empire and several nations were brought to be subjects of the particular empire of the day. Maurya, Mughal, British and the present system come to mind.

Perhaps some day our great grand children will see a subcontinent of several proud nations who shall have acquired the wisdom of cooperating with each other.

The real curse, if there is one here, is blind loyalty and subservience to a state machinery and not identification with your ethnicity.

...SR

The discussion here has digressed far from the topic at hand. Further replies unrelated to the topic of the article will be rejected.

RSridhar:

I am surprised but gratified by your response.

`` if you ever come face to face with me and say the stuff you said here , I will beat the life out of you. ``

HAHAHAHA!!! That was a joke and a half u Gujju Khusra. India is not your bapu`s country that u decide who is pro-India and who is Anti-India. Carry on sitting in your office hammering out code and answering my phone when I call Dell customer service. You do not have the mentality of a winner, only one of a whiner. And if you are ever coming to the states, I will be more then happy to give you my address, phone number etc. A chutiya like you making empty threats makes no difference to me. Regardless, it does not take too much effort to beat the crap out of a Gujrati. Seems like U do well in violence only when there are a couple of thousand of you and a couple of defenceless people as targets and the cops take your side. Does not work that way in the states.

re:#159 by gujjubania
Dude,
Correct me if i am wrong but i thought you were a Gujarati settled in South. I will be very disappointed if you were a south indian.

``Never an enterprising sort , they always were contemptuous of the businessmen/industrialists from the west of the country - `bania` as they used to call them. ``
Kid,
I do not know who fills you up with so much hatred but for a young man, you are full of it.

I grew up with Punjabees. Though a Tamilian, our lives were enriched by presence of Punjabees around us. There is nobody more friendly than a middle class Punjabi neighbour. We grew up in the part of Delhi surrounded by Punjabi refugees. Right in front of our eyes we saw many families go into business and prosper. My mom learnt all punjabi dishes and taught her neighbours ``madraasi dishes``. Later, when my parents moved south, we continued our contact and continued to visit one family for many years.
Gujaratis are called banias perhaps because they see nothing beyond ``money``. I am told that when a Gujarati Bhai comes home from his work, the first topic of discussion with his Behn (wife for the uninitiated) is about the stock prices. When money alone becomes your focus, you fail to appreciate nicer things in life. It is these nicer things that go to make a culture.
When one goes up the social ladder, one`s social responsibilities increases. Do you see even Narayana Murthy of Infosys giving away millions for charities. I bet you do. How much money does the chief of Reliance give for charities? I have yet to hear of Anil Ambani or anyone give any substantial amount for charities. These high profile Gujjus treat India like a whore. And they expect to be appreciated in return!

Next time when you try to put down any community, be sure what you are talking about.
Sridhar

````And why do the folks at Chowk find my views unusual ? Visit any Indian forum ,(Sulekha , rediff , Yahoo groups etc) or any campus/office in India - you wont find my views to be out of place. Infact I find this Chowk thing very strange, with Indians expressing sympathy with Pakistan , denigrating India . I have been on all Indian forums , have more or less expressed the same views , but never have I been opposed or faced with such ridiculous abuse (more by fellow `Indians` rather than Pakis) as in here.``(Gujjubania)

my dear Gujju miaN -- so u DO think the Chowkees are a breed apart........

wonderful -- u couldn`t have come to a better palce -- and u couldn`t have come up with a better compliment for Chowk....

stay where u r -- for a while longer on Chowk -- and you`ll find yourself -- `out of place` -- at -- ``( Sulekha , rediff , Yahoo groups etc) or any campus/office in India``....and ``on all forums in India ``...

what you call ``abuse`` from Indians -- is a subtle and sometimes not so subtle -- facetting process -- by our Chowki Diamond Cutters -- of Indian and `Paki` origin -- for our newly arrived uncut Indian and Pakistani diamonds.....

and you ARE a diamond -- aren`t you?.......:-)

ahmadmadani: Thanks for the reply. Greatly appreciated.

gujju bhai,

Take it EZ.

Sorry to nitpick, but PunjabiZulu is ONLY half punjabi. The other half is Zulu...sorry, kashmiri. Kaurasach is related to PanjabiZulu and he too is half-and-half. They are both nephews of Ahmadzai...who, BTW, is half punjabi and half pathan!

re:#171 by tahmed32
tahmed sahib,
I, like many other Chowkies, am very disgusted with the likes of Gujjubania. If this is progress, then India is better off without such progress. What India seems to be producing of late is people like Gujjubania who just see the $ sign and nothing more. They have no class, no culture. I bet this guy Gujjubania will not hesitate to sell his mother or wife or sister for some extra money.
I have had personal experience with at least one such person (also a Gujarati; just a coincidence?) for whom i worked initially soon after my fellowship. I was so disgusted with that guy (his work ethics sucked big time) that i left that job within a few months of joining.
People like Gujjubania are becoming a liability. If they do not temper their hatred of other communities and keep indulging in muslim-bashing, the rest of India may have to show them how to behave. And it will not be pleasant for them.
Sridhar

godot #164 generalizations and stereotypes do indeed quickly fall apart when one meets with people from other communities. as i said, this was a theory that i put together to explain this weird phenomenon that on chowk indian panjabis tend to be more friendly than, and not as boastful as, people from south india. i dont know how else to explain it.

certainly in real life i have known many south indians as well as north indians and they have almost invariably been very nice and friendly people. maybe the folks showing up on chowk represent a frustrated lot perhaps - but then why this asymmetry?

i also reject the obvious explanation that south indians tend to be nicer on the surface and their true hatreds come out on chowk: i would have seen through that if that was the case with the ``real`` people i worked with. they were genuinely good, professional people and proved their sincerity over the years.

the whole thing is a puzzlement, as the king of siam said.

dost mittar #165 your warning concerning small samples is well taken, and certainly chowk is a tiny, tiny sample (also distorted by the nature of the medium, which makes communication seem more hostile than intended - a phenomenom that was actually studied by psychologists soon after email became popular several years ago). still, after three years on chowk i must say this has been a consistent observation.

gujjubania:
``Never said I represented Hindutva. Never was a religious sort.``
...neither was Veer Savarkar, the agnostic god worshipped by the hindutavavadis!
As regards my remark about your hating Muslims, didn`t you say that you regard Modi as your hero? And is he not the guy who faciliated the killings of the very citizens he was constitutionally bound to protect just because they were Muslims? And since you put so high a value on making money, you should know that many of those killed and plundered could also justifiably be called ``Muslim banias``.

gujjubania #170 you write `` but I dont give a damn what Pakis and other anti-India folks say or think about me``

very good. that is what i wanted to hear (at least the part about your not giving a damn what pakis think of you). now i hope you will walk the talk and change your nick so your entire presence on chowk is not defined by what you think pakis think of you (as i discussed in my previous post).

the part about about pakis by definition being ``anti-india`` (whatever that means) as you continue to believe despite my earlier explanation (i.e. socio-economic progress in india is bound to have positive direct and indirect affects on pakistan, and so is good for pakistan as well), that is fine. i dont expect you to change what you have obviously been learnt while growing up in india on the basis of one chowk post. nor are your beliefs of any particular interest to me except to pass some idle time on chowk.

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stuka No156

~~Hhmm, u are wasting your time with Gujjubania. As a young Indian albeit one with a small penis, he has too many complexities that give rise to irrational paranoia~~

Are you being serious stuka? You really believe this khusra has got a penis?

Khusra-Bania

~~Punjabis always put up a facade of sophistication , but underneath it all is a very debased mind possibly because of frustration/inadequecy. So Stuka`s penis talk is typically Punjabi~~

You are a neo-nazi who gets aroused at the thought of barbecuing muslims and turning them into bars of soap. You are a degenerate fascist. Go jump in front of a train you degenerate fascist.