A Gory Tale of Lies, Greed and Deception

tahmad,

[...in my post i was thinking of last year when i mentioned the fear of pakistani nuclear weapons keeping indian chauvinists at bay - or do you seriously think that india brought a million men to pakistan`s borders, and then marched them back, for nothing?...]

pray tell why musharraf had to say what he did to armitage before the troop pull back from india? you never had an answer before and i imagine wouldn`t have one now...

Gujjubania

For personal reasons, I cannot but look upon a Kannadiga with a special kind of affection. But tell me, does your hard-edged nationalism reflect the new sentiment on the MG Road?

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ballukhan #103 i would like nothing better than to see peace and progress in south asia - for pakistanis, for indians, for bangladeshis, for everybody. for a subcontinent where city streets are crowded by desparately poor people, where the countryside provides a bare-bones existence, any military expenditures above Rs. 0 are too much and any jingoistic rantings by the nouveau riche and the not-so-nouveau riche on either side is disgusting.

i am also aware of the horrors of war and violence and of terrible and vast devastation caused by nuclear weapons. and finally i am aware that ``indian belligerence`` is the standard argument presented by military officers (having myself raised with them the waste caused by military expenditures and being given this response ).

however, ``indian belligerence`` is an unfortunate fact (as the article in the Hindustan Times indicates). the fact that the military has used this fact to justify its outrageous interference in pakistan politics does not change this fact.

in my post i was thinking of last year when i mentioned the fear of pakistani nuclear weapons keeping indian chauvinists at bay - or do you seriously think that india brought a million men to pakistan`s borders, and then marched them back, for nothing?

this will sound strange but the fact is that musharaff (without excusing his takeover of the country or his baiting of india), did both indians and pakistanis a favor by making explicit the policy of first use of nuclear weapons last year and following it up with a couple of perfectly timed missile ``tests``. The jingoistic mood in india took a 180 degree turn (just as it did a few years earlier when pakistan surprised the bjp when it responded in kind to the nuclear bomb tests conducted by bjp). This clarity of intention prevented a slide into a bloody war that could have led to the terrible nuclear devastation you mention in any case.

but what are the options? we should no doubt work for peace in whatever way we can, and we should work to end military interference once and for all. but in the meantime, given the obvious hostility towards pakistan among a large percentage of the population as well as at the highest ranks of the ruling party, we must be careful not to throw the baby (credible defense) out with the bathwater (military interference in politics). and at the same time pray for the day that we dont need the baby either, and have demilitarized borders as exist between Canada and the US.

nazarhayat/fuzair: another one - air marshall nur khan got too big for his boots. made some anti-zia statements. zia summoned him, showed him a file he had on him for corruption charges and reminded him that if he was no longer zia`s friend than zia could not protect him from prosecution anymore. nur khan was quiet as a mouse after that.

fuzair #104 i dont think ex-military officers like you and nhk should have the luxury of rueing corruption in the military. a potentially far more dangerous problem that has resulted is the india-pakistan hostility (never mind whose fault it is). i deal with this in my post to ballukhan that i just sent, and present (in the poetic spirit that you started) the following piece that reflects i think the threat of nuclear devastation that very much exists but is ignored by the idiots running these two huge poverty stricken nuclear armed nations:

Who is in charge of the clattering train?
The axles creak and the couplings strain,
And the pace is hot, and the points are near,
And Sleep has deadened the driver`s ear;
And the signals flash through the night in vain,
For Death is in charge of the clattering train.``

(anonymous)

re: Is Pak sincere about peace?
Everytime i read the statements issued by Pak politicians, i suspect they are living in a fool`s paradise. For eg, just look at the statements by this guy Rashid (Information minister of Pak visiting India). When asked about the 20 wanted men`s list that India had presented to Pak, this guy raked up a non-issue of FIR against senior politicians including Advani. The list that India gave Pak included some senior Khalistani leaders, and above all Dawood Ibrahim, who has now been labelled a global terrorist. This guy, i learnt the other day, lives in Islamabad now, having shifted his residence from Karachi.
If Pak is sincere about peace, then the first thing it has to do is to surrender Dawood Ibrahim to India. This is kind of an acid test. No peace is possible if this first step is not taken.
And this Rashid clown complemented India on having a better democracy! My answer to him would be: you A$$HOLE, where is democracy in Pak anyway. Where is the comparison? However, i do concede that Pak has become a global player in IT. By IT, i mean Intenational Terrorism. India, of course, as we all know is a global player in another kind of IT viz Informational Techonology.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_456426,0008.htm
Sridhar

re:#105 by gujjubania
You are still young. I advise you to read a book called ``The rise and fall of the third Reich``. Learn how Hitler came to power on the bogey of hatred against the jews, how his rule saw a major economic revival of German economy reeling under the Weimar Republic before. Learn also how that country was finally destroyed by a few diehard Nazis who implemented what they thought was a good plan, which the world later learnt was a pogrom of the kind that would put humanity to shame. Gujarat or India`s prosperity means nothing India strays away from its ideal of secularism. There are forces stronger than Pakistan within India itself that will eventually destroy India if the secular fabric is not kept intact. You are too young to understand all this.
Sridhar

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arjun_m at # 90:

``WASHINGTON- A conservative think tank here is asking the Bush Administration to shift its war from Iraq to Pakistan. An article written last month by a research fellow at the Cato Institute, an influential conservative think tank, was published this week in widely circulated newspapers. ``

Just remind yourself that similar conservative and progressive think tanks, as well as same media, had told the world that Iraq possessed chemical weapons and WMD and that Iraq was about to attack and annihilate the USA.

arjum_m at 83:

``Hey osama lover.......``

I challenge you to show any post where I said I loved Osama or people of his ilk like Vajpaai, Advani, Joshi, Modi, Thakray, Mulla Umar.

#91 by rsridhar on November

``The reality is (and this answers Tahmed Sahib`s question as to why South Indians on chowk are so anit-Pak): ``

yes u r right.I see lot of articles like this by south indians since 5 years.may be they come to know more about pakistan since 5 or 10 years

#92 by tahmed32 on November 12, 2003 5:01pm PT
``saminshah #88 this article is a good reminder of why pakistan needs ..........``

I read somewhere article by Muslim professor of Delhi university which addressed to Muslims. He write “don’t play with Hindu’s tolerance once Hindu is intolerant nobody can more dangerous then him.”

We can see that in last year Gujarat my home state or by LTTE in shrilanka

Article posted by me of Rajesh Tembarai reflect something same

#94 by sadna on November 12, 2003 8:21pm PT
saminshah #88
``Good article.
What Nehru got us in 1947 is 50 years free of Pakistani ruling classes veto on Indians lives. He got us space to talk a little of land reform, of education, of pluralism, and of self government, without being called ......``

you know i m strong believer of two nation theory.i strongly believe muslims cant live peace fully with any race.at time of partition exchange of population happened in both country by government then muslims and hindu may be more happy.
may be i m born in pakistan

Fuzair # 93

Another story.

Once M.M. Alam ( by then in a hero`s mindset & religious) went to Zia. He told Zia how corrupt current Air Chief MM Shameem was and how he has been making money. Zia patiently listened to Alam`s whole story ; said ``OK`` ; and came to the door to see him off with a double handshake.

When Alam reached back at the Chaklala Mess, he was told that he has been retired and is to immediately vacate the Mess premises. Literally, his stuff was thrown out of the Air Force premises.

saminshah #88
The article was a load of BS!!
But unfortunately reflects the mind set of S Indians as rsridhar has rightly pointed.

And the guys like tahmed who talk about the ``fear of pakistani nukes vaporizing them in delhi`` only strengthens the position of the belligerents in the army and the jihadi machinery. He needs to visit the museums in nagasaki and hiroshima to see the sufferng of the victims. Perhaps he would be sitting outside Pakistan and watching the ``fun`` when such an exchange takes place.
Sick!!

My apologies to Sara Teasdale for misquoting her words. I was relying on faulty memory and didn`t do her justice.

Wisdom

WHEN I have ceased to break my wings
Against the faultiness of things,
And learned that compromises wait
Behind each hardly opened gate,
When I can look Life in the eyes,
Grown calm and very coldly wise,
Life will have given me the Truth,
And taken in exchange -- my youth.