A Movement in Religious Nationalism: Jami’at-ul-Ulama-i-Hind

Hmmm...it seems lke the comments made by Shah Walli Ulah to Ahmad Shah Abdali were made with speciifc reference to an active conflict...in which case he may not have been a ``brutal`` man, but simply providing support for a ruler fighting what he thought was the good fight. Must research this further...for now, I take back my comments on the man since I hear similar rhetoric comming from Americans/Indians fighting Islamists...

who the hell cares what the JUH did in the past 100 odd years. as far as the role that this organisation has played in Indian political history, i think it is insignificant.

the article is long and boring, could very well be a part of any boring school textbook.

regarding the JUH`s plan to align itself with the dalits and OBC`s, it is a smart startegy to counter the brahmin raj of BJP. rather this alignment is already in play. In UP and Bihar, OBC`s and muslims have come together to keep BJP out of power. As per Mayawati`s recent statements, her main aim is to defeat BJP in the coming elections.

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The core issue here is the assessment of hate-mongers like Shah Walli Ullah. If such a person is a hero while advocating mass murder of the infidel, then indeed, we are talking about a pol-pot or nazi type of cult. The impressive thing is that all of this takes place in the 1700s. Most of North India is ruled by a muslim kings. Truly a sickening story and one that all right thinking people will find revolting.

Does this mean all of the communal problems in inda originate from this source? No. Does it justify the kind of mob violence that the VHP supports? No. But honesty demands recognition that this individual represents a kind of genocidal hatred for the `other` that is beyond civilization.

``When I read this article, I wondered if the facts had been twisted to suit the agenda of the writers who are obviously not very kind towards the Jamiat, but I am willing to take most of it at face value after reading Naqshbandi`s comments. He is generally well read about the history of Islam, especially the Deobandi and Bareilvi schools of Sunni Islam on the subcontinent.`` (dost-mitter)

dear dost -- you are right 100% for the first part of your sentence -- `` When I read this article, I wondered if the facts had been twisted to suit the agenda of the writers who are obviously not very kind towards the Jamiat`` --

this article mixed with some truths more halftruths is mostly a balderdash --

being no maulana lover myself -- I can say with my personal knowledge -- that Most of the Jameatis were all for Hindu-Muslim unity and amity -- keeping Islam out of politics into the masjid and building Muslim religious character and piety -- never heard them spouting bigotry and fanticism...


`` but I am willing to take most of it at face value after reading Naqshbandi`s comments. He is generally well read about the history of Islam, especially the Deobandi and Bareilvi schools of Sunni Islam on the subcontinent.``(dost)

Naqashbadi? -- what that newborn knows about Indian Islam of 30`s, 40` and 50`s -- the Jameatis were true nationalists -- in fact the Jameatis of 30`s and 40`s were more secular than the Hindus of 70`s and 90`s --

they fought the British shoulder to shoulder with the Hindus -- and considered them their brethren -- and that was their undoing -- they had hardly any following among the Muslims masses of those days....dreaming about a separate homeland for the Muslims ...

godot,

Thank you kindly.

Pmishra2,

``Your crude attempts at obfuscation and hiding behind innuendo are transparent.``

Transparency is always a good thing. Better to be honest then a pretender....

``Your inability to recognize the naked use of violence to support islam by ``leaders`` like Shah Walli Ulah speaks volumes. No interpretation is required when ``respected leaders`` call for murder, violence and genocide of the kafir....You are unable to counter them and are favoring us with a mindless rant about hindus, fascism, hindutva and other blather.``

Interpretation? Who`s calling for interpretation? He was a brutal man. Happy? Just don`t give me this CRAP that he was a brutal man in an otherwise pristine, Hindu environment. That`s idiocy.

And read my original message, I AM countering a statement the author wrote. If I have time, I`ll discuss others - like the need to bring up a 16th century Muslim to discuss current Hindu-Muslim tensions. But, just like yourself, I`m just responding to what got my attention.

``You only forgot to bring in Israel etc. Perhaps your next message could include some nonsense about the zionists as well.``

Talk about Palestine, and I will talk about Zionists. You think I`m something I`m not, so as you will have found out by now, I`m not as easy to bait as a mindless ``Jihadi``.

Bundchungal,

An excellent artcile. Hope history is researched with the intention of laying bare the facts alone.

Vertex # 6,

``Of course Muslims are going to look after their own interests, and continue to do so.``

In this statement is the seed of pathetic mentality seen worldwide. Muslims first, humans last.

I can understand RSS using this argument and the FACTS of genocide perpetrated by many islamic invaders alongwith destruction of temples and forceful conversions to further their bigoted vision. Pray inform us about the argument of your dear mullahs for the need to safeguard their interests in a nation that was ruled by them for centuries.
Why was it so difficult for the same community to live like brothers with the rest after independence. Oh I`m sorry, i forgot, the superior islamic blood cannot live like equals with anyone else. When in power, it crushes the non-ummah, but in minority pleads about human rights and safeguarding its ``own interests`` or else demands separate nation.
I hope such people get a planet of their own and let this world breathe better.
Adios


There has been one partition for the same stupid reason and even now the passions between the two nations have not cooled down. When are you folks going to stop with this nonsense?

When I read this article, I wondered if the facts had been twisted to suit the agenda of the writers who are obviously not very kind towards the Jamiat, but I am willing to take most of it at face value after reading Naqshbandi`s comments. He is generally well read about the history of Islam, especially the Deobandi and Bareilvi schools of Sunni Islam on the subcontinent.
However, the article is wrong in laying the full blame for the current religious divide in India on the Jamiat alone. The Jamiat may have played its part but the role of the RSS and its various offsprings cannot be ignored. Other than seeking a separate sharia law for Muslims, I dont know if the Jamiat sought any other special powers for itself.

Be as it may, the article makes it quite clear that India was lucky to be partitioned in 1947. Otherwise, Indians would have continued to fight whether they were one nation or two or many within the same country. Seems like Jinnah, a practioner of realpolitik among a bunch of dreamers, was the only one who knew what he was doing.

Mr. Naqsbandi

Hadrat Shah Wali Ullah Muhaditth Delhvi rahmatullah alayhi was a Sufi?

#6 vertex

Your crude attempts at obfuscation and hiding behind innuendo are transparent. Your inability to recognize the naked use of violence to support islam by ``leaders`` like Shah Walli Ulah speaks volumes. No interpretation is required when ``respected leaders`` call for murder, violence and genocide of the kafir.

These are simple facts stated here, based on direct quotation from the various ``leaders``. You are unable to counter them and are favoring us with a mindless rant about hindus, fascism, hindutva and other blather. You only forgot to bring in Israel etc. Perhaps your next message could include some nonsense about the zionists as well.

This type of garbage play well in the cantonments of Pakistan or perhaps the jihadi academies. But not in an open forum like Chowk.

vertex, 6

Very impressive and very intelligent.

Generally a good article and accurate too except that Hadrat Shah Wali Ullah Muhaditth Delhvi rahmatullah alayhi was NOT a Wahabi at all but rather a Hanafi Sufi who tried (and succeeded) in raising Sunni Muslims from their apathy. The rest of the article is more or less accurate: it was Shah Wali Ullah`s grandson unfortunately Shah Ismail Delhvi wo was responsible for the rise of Wahabism in India by his translation Ibn Abdul Wahab al Najdi`s heretical book Kitab al Tawhid into Urdu as Taqwiyatul Iman. Unfortunately he departed from the teachings of his illustrious grandfather and became a bona fide Wahabi and the Deobandis main scholars like Rashid Ahmad Gangohi, Qasim Nanautwi and Ashraf Ali Thanawi followed him in many aspects of his aqaid (beliefs) thus deviating from the Sunni path of their own great Shaykh Hazrat Pir Hajji Imdad Ullah Muhajjir Makki and laying the foundations for the influence of pro-Wahabi Deobandism in India. It was against this new Wahabi trend that great scholars such as Fazl e Haq Khairabadi and Fazl e Rasul al-Badayuni and, most of all, Ala Hadrat Imam Ahmad Rida Khan fought with the pen.

A brillaint analysis of Ismail Delhvi`s book Taqwiyat ul Iman and the beliefs therein is given here by a Lebanese scholar Shaykh GF Haddad:

http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/d/tqi_e.pdf




To be fair to Deoband though it HAS produced very many learned scholars but unfortunately a lot of them have been too pro-Wahabism although others have criticised the Wahabis vehemently and are much closer to the Ahle Sunnat Barelvis.

An example of a moderate Deobandi was Mawlana Shabbir Ahmad Uthmani and Anwar Shah Kashmiri. Unfortunately these anti-Wahabis deobandis were outgunned by the more pro-Wahabi group and nowadays the pro-Wahabist faction has taken over though there is a slow fight back by the other faction too..

Though many of the Deobandis are pro-Wahabi the Wahabis themselves consider the Deobandis as heretics!

I am neither Deobandi nor Wahabi but alhamdulillah am a Sunni.

:-)