Pakistan under its Ethnic Shadows

Adnan:

``point out the fundamental flaws in the two nation theory.``

I am not middle aged but I can definitely point out the flaws in TNT. Every Indian. But, that is exactly why I like Manto`s position. A living breathing nation does not need a theory to survive.

Godot:

As an Indian, I claim to have no direct knowledge of Pakistan. It is all hearsay. All I can say is that if you are to ask the vast majority of Indians about the viability of India, they will give you a blank look. India exists, and that is reason enough. It should be the same for Pakistan. Let theories gather dust. As long as people are empowered with the idea of Pakistan that is reason enuff to be part of it.

ylh #14 that is i think a fine answer to that question, and indeed a step further ahead in the right direction than the one i had tentativel provided.

but then: if being a pakistani basically means no more and no less than being a citizen of pakistan, that implies that there are no particular values that are uniquely pakistani. no particular structure of government that we can say should apply to pakistan and to no other country.

i think the implications are far-reaching indeed. we have more in common as fellow humans, regardless of nationality, then we do as fellow pakistanis. you have just given a death blow to nationalistic thinking.

pakistan zindabad. that is fine.

but more important: we, the people of this planet, paindabad.

#10 by nakhok

The comments about democracy as a major centripetal force are fair. Indeed, democracy facilitates political discourse and acts as a safety valve. To borrow from Dr. Zafar Altaf (an ex-Federal Secretary), dictatorship is like driving at 100 mph on a highway: you can drive fast with little resistance but when you make a mistake, you end up in a fatal accident. Democracy, on the other hand, is like driving at 5mph through a crowded bazaar; sometimes your car gets bumped & scratched by pedestrians and bicyclists. But you never die.

However, the absence of democracy does not necessarily imply a breakup.

Field Marshall Tito`s Yugoslavia is a perfect example. Before World War II, Yugoslavia didn`t exist as a nation or state. The breakup of Turkey, Austro-Hungarian empire and Czarist Russia after 1918 created a dozen small weak states. In 1939, Hitler made a pact with Stalin to divide the Balkan states of eastern Europe among themselves. Nevertheless, the people of these states identified with neither Nazi Germany nor Communist USSR.

Marshall Tito provided a centripetal ideology in the form of Socialism that overcame the strong centrifugal forces. Bosnians, Slavs, Serbians, Croatians and Kosovars forged a new state out of thin air.

This new state was not democratic. It had deep religion faultlines (Orthodox Christian vs. Muslim) and no shared sense of history. The Serbians, e.g., celebrated June 28 as a black day when their Prince Lazar was defeated by Muslims at the Battle of Kosovo in 1389 A.D.

Yet Marshall Tito managed to hold together such a polarized society together without democracy for 36 years! Through benign dictatorship, distribution of powers and a unifying ideology (socialism), he overcame the centrifugal forces.

These centrifugal forces emerged after central authority weakened in 1990. By then, Marshall Tito had died and the unifying ideology (socialism) collapsed. Democracy propelled racist leaders like Slobodan Milosevic and Karadzic to power; under military dictatorships, such unsavory characters would perhaps have been secretly imprisoned or assassinated... and millions of lives could have been saved in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo.

The Yugoslavia example just scores a critical point: in the absence of democracy, a unifying ideology such as Islam, communism, fascism, etc. can also hold a nation together for several decades.

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The fault lines are most accentuated in Pakistan- one little push and it breaks into pieces.

Pakistan faces a greater identity crisis than India or France... since in Pakistan the fault lines are religious as well as ethnic.

Pakistan ka matlub

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loot sako to looto.

I dont see any threat to Pakistani nationhood. I have concerns about the nature of that nationhood, but not about its viability.

IMO, Pakistan is headed toward complete Urduization of its population. There are religious and structural forces afoot that no one community can resist, unless some communities are as fully committed to self-preservation as Bengalis were. That does not apper to be the case. Neither do these communties have time on their hands.

Every new generation will have signficantly less of that commitment for self-preservation than its previous generation. Sindhis will struggle the most, and the longest, but they are also the least equipped to make any difference in the long-term.

In essence, Romair is on the mark as far as his own country is concerned. His confidence is quite well justified.

This shouldn`t be read to mean that this inexorable march toward an exclusively Urdu-based Islamic identity is desirable. It is more an expression of what is and is going to be rather than what should be. People will differ on the issue of desirability of such a future.

#21 by ballukhan

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Pakistan faces a greater identity crisis than India or France... since in Pakistan the fault lines are religious as well as ethnic.
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This is largely a misconception. Although religious composition of Pakistan is Sunni (77%) and Shia (20%), there is no polarization along sectarian lines in Army, industry, Parliament and social structure.

The sectarian outfits like Sipah-e-Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Sipah-e-Muhammad are in fact small (but well armed) organizations. Their total membership is approximately 5,000 members or less. They represent less than 0.05% of the total population of Pakistan. Moreover, their membership has already dwindled because of police encounters and crackdown.

In practical terms, the only fault lines in Pakistani society are ethnic, not religious. As I have stated in a previous post, these fault lines have already been eroded considerably through a stronger centripetal force and national integration through roads, media, local government system and internal migration.

But as Romair pointed out... there are economic disparities between Sindhis/Baluchis and Punjabis/Pashtuns/Urdu-speaking community. If left unchecked, this could provide a strong centrifugal force. Fortunately, the Musharraf govt has focused a lot of energies on Baluchistan. The Gwadar port, when it is finally complete, will go a long way in correcting the economic imbalance between ethnic Sindhis/Baluchis and Punjabis.

#19 by HisExcellency on November 17, 2003 9:06pm PT

Boot Licker!! You may draw the analogy of Yugoslavia and Tito and obliquely justify Mush and his cronies benign dictatorship, but you forget that this is 2003- and Communist/socialist Statecraft is discredited. Blaming democracy for the milosevic episode is just obfuscating the recent yugoslavian history.
Yugoslav is the typical example of what happens when a centralized and dictatorial regime shifts towards a democratic system without the democratic functioning percolating down to the grass root level public institutions.
I believe that after Mush is out, the chances of Pakistan breaking like Yugoslavia would be great because he has ensured his cronies in all the important public institutions turn Pakistani state into a true martial state controlled by the Generals..
http://public.srce.hr/~mprofaca/euroyu7.html

rsirdhar
`This is what makes India different from Pakistan. Pak has to prove (to itself more than to anyone else) that it is different from India. That is hard to do.`

pakistan has to do no such thing. comparisons such as these reside in the minds of sad, obsessive little indians like yourself and little place else
good day

#22 by gujjubania on November 17, 2003 10:48pm PT
Idiot-Extraordinaire Romair : ``Despite all their complains, every province is now willingly a part of Pakistan. In fact, another (Kashmir) actually wants to join Pakistan. ``
Thanks for the pics- they were great.
Can anybody spot Mushy anywhere in these pictures???
I would love to know where his batallion was when the rest of the guys were bowing down to the Indian army.

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This is largely a misconception. Although religious composition of Pakistan is Sunni (77%) and Shia (20%), there is no polarization along sectarian lines in Army, industry, Parliament and social structure.
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Actually, during the last five decades a small privileged minority -- feudal aristocracy strengthened by the induction of retired army officers and civilian bureaucrats -- reaped the benefits of economic gains in terms of better training and education, economic prosperity and political participation. The promised and actual economic gains never reached the deprived masses.
These elites in Army, aristrocacy and parliament are not polarized because they share the loot and have monopolized the power in their hands. So, the unity of INTERESTS of these elites is perfunctionary and is made to appear substantial by their cronies.
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The sectarian outfits like Sipah-e-Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and Sipah-e-Muhammad are in fact small (but well armed) organizations. Their total membership is approximately 5,000 members or less. They represent less than 0.05% of the total population of Pakistan. Moreover, their membership has already dwindled because of police encounters and crackdown.
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This is what Mush wants rest of us to believe. But the reality is far from this, the double speak , the covert operations, the new jehadi agents from ISI are even more active after their earlier success and the recent frustrations in Afganistan. They are increasing their tribes and the recruitment is in full swing- the poor people of Pakistan who do not even have any opportunities to rise in the new economies are lured by the visions of 72 hoories, status of matrydom and praise by the mullahs to take others lives- Mush knows the recruitment process very well and knows that he is just killing those groups who are not towing his line- making it seem to the US that he is wiping out the jehadis.
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In practical terms, the only fault lines in Pakistani society are ethnic, not religious. As I have stated in a previous post, these fault lines have already been eroded considerably through a stronger centripetal force and national integration through roads, media, local government system and internal migration.
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No religious fault lines?? You are now forgetting the shia, ahmedia bashing in Pakistan. It is bound to increase now> Infact, the lack of democracy at the local levels just accentuates the frustration amongst the local leaders and the technologies helps them voice their concerns to a even greater reach. The so called centripetal forces morph into centrifugal ones- just wait and see.
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Fortunately, the Musharraf govt has focused a lot of energies on Baluchistan. The Gwadar port, when it is finally complete, will go a long way in correcting the economic imbalance between ethnic Sindhis/Baluchis and Punjabis.
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So much for Mush admiration- as if the port is a personal favour by him to the beggars of Pakistan!!!!

#25 by ballukhan

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Yugoslav is the typical example of what happens when a centralized and dictatorial regime shifts towards a democratic system without the democratic functioning percolating down to the grass root level public institutions.
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Knickerwallah!! Apparently you are allergic to facts and counterarguments.

The reason post-Tito Yugoslavia became a failed state was that its constituent ethnic groups had ancient rivalries that had been suppressed by a strong ideology (communism), charismatic leader and powerful military. Serbs and Slavs had historic grievances against Kosovars, Albanians and Bosnians. These historic grievances were not just differences of opininion: they were (irreconcilable) differences in religion that erupted in several bloody battles.

When the overriding centripetal force weakened, these ancient rivalries resurfaced.

In contrast, there is no ancient rivarly between Punjabis, Pashtuns, Sindhis, Baluchis and Urdu-speaking community living in Pakistan. They share the same religion. Unlike Serbs and Kosovars, they have never fought each other on the battle field. Moreover, there is a peaceful political mechanism for all these communities to resolve their disputes. And lastly, the genuine fear of India acts a strong centripetal/unifying force.

There are alternatives to democracy. Whether those alternatives are durable and sustainable is a matter of opinion, not fact. History is dotted with several examples that contradict conventional wisdom. As the Yugoslavia example illustrates, a strong unifying ideology can suppress even bitter Serb-Muslim rivalries.

Looks like everyone is still busy, at Chowk, re-inventing the wheel! (LOL)

re: ylh

I agree with your definition.


Ciao

tahmed sahib:
[ ... ``it means i was born there and thus have emotional attachments to the land and the people``. no more, no less. ...]

This is exactly how I feel too. However, loving the people part did not come naturally. It took some effort on my part to love ALL Pakistanis equally. Sadly, many of us profess an undying love for Pakistan but not Pakistanis. We`re in love with an abstract notion but unwilling to face the concrete realities of nationhood.

Waisay, what`s your take on the whole Urdu/Punjabi debate raging on elsewhere?