Operation Searchlight

# 169 by dard

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It is a matter of utmost shame and disgust for us as a nation that even after 30 years more than 300000 Pakistanis are still stranded in Bangladesh.
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Bangladesh had offered Bangladeshi citizenship to the ``Biharis`` in the immediate aftermath of independence. Those that accepted the offer live today as Bangladeshis fully integrated with society of their adopted country.

The ``Biharis`` who have been living in the Geneva camps in Bangladesh for the last three decades are the ones that did not accept the offer - they chose to retain their Pakistani citizenship. And they have been waiting patiently in UN-run Geneva Camps for a third of a century to be repatriated to their home country. They never renounced their citizenship, nor did they lose it. In fact, they fly the Pakistani flag at the UN-run Geneva Camps and continue to be referred to as ``stranded Pakistanis`` in Pakistani/non-Pakistani publications alike.

Pakistan`s ruling elite has been using ``lack of funds`` as an excuse for their indifference toward these ``Biharis.`` Curiously, the same ruling elite is never lacking in funds for promoting Jihad beyond Pakistan`s borders in places like Kashmir and Afghanistan!
Rabita Trust had explicitly collected money to fund the repatriation of the stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh. General Pervez Musharraf himself was on its board of directors. And, needless to say, the funds got diverted to finance jihad in Afghanistan and Kashmir.

I was not very surprised to be told ruefully by a Mohajir-Pakistani acquaintance that in the post 9/11 era, the funds of that trust have been frozen by the Musharraf government on American orders because they were being misused to promote terrorism. And that, in a nutshell, spells out the real tragedy. Pakistan`s ruling elite has never lacked in funds to promote jihad in Afghanistan or Kashmir. But they had not a penny to spare for the repatriation of the hapless ``Biharis`` !!

Pakistan`s ruling elite has allowed the quarter million ``Biharis`` to rot in refugee camps in distant Bangladesh for well over a generation. In contrast, the Kashmiris haven`t declared themselves to be Pakistanis. Yet, Pakistan`s ruling elite remains determined to spill as much blood as it takes to fulfill its slogan of ``Kashmir Banega Pakistan``. ``Kashmir Banega Pakistan`` is not a Kashmiri slogan. It is a slogan engendered and nurtured in the cantonments at Lahore, Rawalpindi and Sialkot.

The ``Biharis`` won`t come with any real estate. But the Kashmiris will. Naturally, Pakistan`s ruling elite gives priority to ``liberating`` Jammu & Kashmir to repatriating the ``Biharis`` because they care for the real estate in Jammu & Kashmir and not a bit for the ``Biharis`` or even for the Kashmiris.

Pakistan`s ruling oligarchy is quite ready to fight to the last Kashmiri - for this is what allows it to usurp a disproportionate share of Pakistan`s wealth for the military which forms the linchpin of Pakistan`s ruling class.

There is absolutely nothing in the history of Pakistan to indicate that its military cares any more for the rights of Kashmiris on the Indian side of the LoC than it does for the rights of ordinary Pakistanis living within Pakistan`s international borders. It would rather divert the funds of the Rabita Trust to fund jihad in Afghanistan and Kashmir than bring bring home the stranded Pakistanis who have been rotting in Geneva Camps in Pakistan for the third of a century.

General Musharraf says he has Kashmir in his blood. But a Mohajir as he is, the General is yet to discover ``Biharis`` in his blood. Apparently blood isn`t always thicker than water!!

# 172 by Romair

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NS had just fired another Chief, who was very highly respected (and still is) everywhere.
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This is probably alluding to General Jehangir Karamat who ``resigned`` to make way for General Pervez Musharraf during Nawaz Sharif`s 2nd incarnation as the Prime Minister.

The alleged respectability of General Jehangir Karamat may be somewhat exaggerated.

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..... Former army chief General Jahangir Karamat took kickbacks of more than US $20 million from a Ukrainian tank company selling tanks to Pakistan through a middleman named Colonel Mahmood, a brother tank corps officer of Karamat. Former prime minister Nawaz Sharief sent the present chief of WAPDA, Major General Zulfiqar, then serving in the Inter-Services Intelligence, to the Ukraine and Azerbaijan to investigate the scandal.

Gen Zulfiqar compiled a report of the transaction and the bribes given. But the army tried to buy him out by rewarding him with the post of WAPDA chairman and promoting him to rank of lieutenant general.

General Karamat was forced to resign. He was threatened that if he did not, he would be charged with corruption. .....

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#145 tahmed

I have compared Khushwant Singh to Bernard Lewis for a reason. Thet are both extremely learned people with genuine high academic achivement. It is not widely known that Khushwant Singh wrote a definitive (and even today one of the best) history of the sikhs. Yet, not everyone would agree with all of their analysis.

Arundhati Roy and Praful Bidwai are small-time marxist ideologues. Hence I compared them also to the small-fry Richard Pipes and Ibn Warraq. These are people with a little something to contribute, BUT generally tend to focus on one-sided polemics.

There is a healthy set of commentators available in India. There is no need to focus on one point of view. I would say that in addition to Khushwant Singh, folks like M. J. Akbar, Shekhar Gupta and Tavleen Singh bring a balanced and experienced viewpoint. Mark Tully is another person with deep background in India and consistent opinions. I would say that these folks have much more credibility than the Roys or Bidwai`s or, of course, our very own Comrade Angana.

re: ijaz_gul # 156

What is MAHABHARATA SCHOOL? Thanks.

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just a short reply to one point since i am late for class

Are you suggesting that Vajpayee would still be Prime Minister, had he lost in Kargil? To tell you the truth, I am just basing my view off the stuff I read in the media. i have little knowledge of internal Indian politics, other than the media. But I have a feeling, had India gotten into a stalemate in Kargil (much like Siachen), BJP would have been hurt massively in the polls.

Vajpayee did not make Kargil his poll plank. He got votes because his government was pulled down without any replacement. The main plank was ``See, these people made a country like India spend the extra 5,000 crore for an unnecessary election.`` If Kargil would have been in a stalemate, maybe the margin would have been reduced a bit in the ``too close to call`` constituencies, but he would have won nevertheless.

fountainheader #160: ``Can you name a single Pakistani movie on Siachen?

No. But then, I can not name a single Pakistani movie ``not`` on Siachen either. Can you name 5 Pakistani movies, regardless of the subject? :)``

Yes. Maula Jat. Jat in London. Jeera Blade. Mirza, Majnu tay Ranjha. Jat, Gujjar tay Nat.

All classics, by the way.

``Though it was mentioned since the Kargil issue was like a month old, the BJP`s election bid was NOT based on it.``

Are you suggesting that Vajpayee would still be Prime Minister, had he lost in Kargil? To tell you the truth, I am just basing my view off the stuff I read in the media. i have little knowledge of internal Indian politics, other than the media. But I have a feeling, had India gotten into a stalemate in Kargil (much like Siachen), BJP would have been hurt massively in the polls.

``However i thought that the Pakistani objective was getting Kashmir. In that sense I don`t think Pakistan is winning.``

I think this is where the biggest misconception occurs in India, regarding Pakistan. As I stated earlier, Pakistanis are not interested in getting all of Kashmir. I say this as someone who is from Kashmir. Look at any survey in Pakistan. Even the govt. repeatedly says self-determination for Kashmiris. This could result in Kashmir joining Pakistan, India, or independence.

``And you think FII`s are going to pour money into Pakistan when a recent poll showed that 48% Europeans said that Pakistan is the biggest threat to world peace?``

This is true. I think the overall mullahism has greatly hurt Pakistan. That is obvious. I don`t think it is a good policy. However, the point I was trying to debate was that it has hurt India also. This was in reply to the following statement you had made, ``India, fortunately or unfortunately(whichever way you view it), has not suffered any such failure in this domain.`` I think India has suffered.

And that, if Pakistan can get to 6% growth rates, it would really start to affect India. By the way, the European poll that you showed ranked USA and Israel as the biggest threats to world peace. They seem to be doing better than both India and Pakistan economically.

Kashmir is going on inside India, as is all the BJP violence, yet it has not affected the FIIs in India. One would think India would be affected more than Pakistan. It is because India has been able to disconnect Kashmir from the rest of India, in its marketing to FDIs. This is what Pakistan could do, as well. The internal violence going on in Pakistan is carried out by parties other than those fighting in Kashmir. This is a misconception that many Indians have also. They think they are the same groups. The internal religious violence is based on sectarian parties, who have nothing to do with Kashmir. As well as due to Al-Qaeda type parties, who are targeting Pakistan like they are targeting Turkey, i.e. for supporting USA.

The ones fighting in Kashmir, are only interested in Kashmir.

Once again, I don`t support any violence in Kashmir from either Pakistan`s or India`s side. I am just trying to show that I am just stating that India is quite mistaken if it assumes that Kashmir is under control and not harming India.

``Since 9/11 everything from killings in churches to the blasts in Karachi to daniel pearl has been blamed on India. the statement has always been ``we suspect either al qaeda or our eastern neighbour``

This used to the be the case. However, it has died down quite a bit now. All the incidences you have pointed to, are now jointly investigated by Pakistani and Western intelligence agencies. This is why so many of the criminals have been caught. I would say, since Sep 11, their has been a drastic decrease in blaming India for everything. The joint investigations are a good indication of that. Pakistan would not carry out joint investigations, if they wanted to place the blame on India.

I have yet to see India agree to joint investigations on any terrorist attack, be it in Kashmir or inside India, that is blamed on Pakistan. This includes the attack on the Parliament. All attempts at international monitoring of the LOC are refused also. This makes it easier for India to blame Pakistan.

``some editorial, some article, some op-ed.....kuch bhi chal jayega.``

I will look for one. There was an interview on News Night in Pakistan, where the BJP minister was being interviewed. The interviewer showed a copy of the text of the original Agra agreement to the minister, and asked whether she wanted to debate it. She refused. He made the same points, and asked why it had been cancelled after the BJP had agreed to it. She had no answer.

Could you point out why the original agreement was cancelled?

``Throughout the 60s, pakistan grew at 6% under military rule. Why then did people want to go back to democracy? The economic condition of Pakistan in 80s under Zia and thanks to American and saudi dollars was quite decent. So why did Pakistanis revert to democracy in 88? ``

Good question. I think it was because it has to be distributed evenly. And because their were charges of croynissm. During Ayub`s rule, Pakistan progressed greatly. It was way behind India at independence, and moved ahead, after the 60s. Pakistan was taught at Harvard as a succcesful case study (Burki, Shahid).

However, two things happened. One Pakistan lost a major war. Two, and more importantly, the income distribution was not even. It had not started trickling down to the poorer levels. Specially to Bengalis. I don`t think people were dying for democracy. They just wanted the fruits of the economic growth.

During Zia`s time, the Dubai chalo phenomenon improved people`s lives a lot. However, in case of Zia, it actually was a ``dictatorship.`` He Islamised Pakistan beyond tolerance of the society. In addition, the Afghanistan war had very harsh affects on Pakistan. So in his case, people did want him removed.

I think any govt. in Pakistan, be it civilian or military, cannot last unless it takes growth rates to 6% (even then it may not survive). But it will be removed not for the love of democracy, but for economy. You need to keep in mind that most voters are in feudal lands. They are already under a feudal dictatorship. It is the urban votes that carry out all the movements etc.

``And romair, this fellow nawaz sharif. he had a 75% majority in parliament did he not? Are you telling me he was removed because of the economy? ``

You are missing the point. I am just saying that people don`t get put into power for love of democracy. They only get supported back into power (against coups), if the produce high economic rates.

The reason NS was removed was because he tried to fire Musharraf. Plain and simple. It was not a planned coup. Even the coup makers did not know what to do after the coup. The Army refused to accept NS`s appointment as the Chief, since the new candidate was not even in line for the position. And since NS had just fired another Chief, who was very highly respected (and still is) everywhere.

However, the population was fed up with NS anyway, and were glad he was gone - coup or no coup. Had the Supreme Court removed him, before he invaded it, people would have been equaly happy.

However, if people were dying for democracy, they would have come out on the streets for NS, trying to get him re-installed. His followers couldn`t even get a hundred people on the street. They still cannot. Only the maulvi parties can get people on the street.

Based on that, I think Musharraf and his govt. will survive as long as it carries out economic growth. If he can consistently get into the 6% - 8% range, with equal distribution, no one will come out in the streets. However, if he remains stuck between 3 to 5 % range, he will be gone. Not because of any love for democracy or for conquering Kashmir, though. But due to love for high economic growth rates.

``If it pushed the economy so much, where are the signs of this progress?``

You are making the mistake that many interactors on Chowk make, in relation to my replies. I am not defending (or offending) the Army. I don`t think the Army is the solution. Historically, it has been the problem, more than the solution.

I am trying to point out the strategy they use, and why no one comes out into the streets to oppose them. I think they push the economy more than the civilians. You have yourself pointed out that the economic growth rates in Ayub and Zias times were quite high (at least higher than those of Bhuttos and Sharifs). This does not mean they took the country out of poverty. It just points to why the people didn`t come out into the streets in support of the civilians they kicked out, i.e. if NS had high growth rates, people would have been out in droves to get him back.

So if the politicians want to counter the Army, they need to concentrate on the economy, and to do that, they need to minimize their own corruption. That is the only counter, in my opinion, to the Army taking over. I think people are generally equally fed up of the polticians and the Army. And not because of democracy.

If this isn`t the case, then could you point out why PPP and PML cannot get a single guy on the street to get them back in power?

The remaining replies in a later interact.

#235 sigalph

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is there some truth to the fact PN officers are more likely to be office&gentlemen than the other two branches(Adm. Masroor is an exception perhaps?)?
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If the army had its General Jahangir Karamat (infamous for the Ukranian tank deal) and Generals Aslam Beg and Assad Durrani (infamous for the Mehran Bank deal for rigging the 1990 elections) then the navy had its Admiral Mansoor-ul-Haq (infamous for the French submarine deal). But, yes, the army seems to have been particularly corrupted.

Power tend to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The following book goes into the institutional reasons why Pakistan`s military has become the ultimate arbiter of who gets to steal in Pakistan and how much:

Military, State and Society in Pakistan
by Hasan Askari Rizvi
St.Martin`s Press, New York

Dr. Hasan Askari Rizvi is a renowned political and defence analyst. He holds PhD in International Relations and Political Science from the Universityof Pennsylvania, USA. He has taught at Columbia University, New York, Heidelberg University, Germany, and the University of the Punjab,Lahore.

Dr. Hasan Askari Rizvi draws the readers special attention to ``military colonisation of all other institutions in Pakistan``. Dr Rizvi has pointed out:

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http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_20-10-2003_pg3_3

Daily Times, Pakistan
Monday, October 20, 2003

Is there any hope for democracy?
By Dr Hasan-Askari Rizvi

..... the military, especially the army, has expanded its corporate interests to such an extent that it is now present in all major sectors of state and the society. This is manifested through induction of mostly, but not exclusively, retired military personnel in important state and semi-state institutions. .....

..... The military`s business, commercial and industrial interests have expanded so much that they have stakes in all major domestic state policies. These developments have practically overwhelmed large civilian sectors. As a matter of fact, there is hardly any exclusively civilian sector left. .....

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The military has good reasons to be concerned about its reputation. Here`s some candid talk by a journalist:

http://jang.com.pk/thenews/aug2003-daily/09-08-2003/oped/o4.htm

The News, Karachi, Pakistan
Saturday August 09, 2003-- Jamadi-us-Sani 10, 1424 A.H

A candid talk
by Mir Jamilur Rahman
mirjrahman@hotmail.com

..... President Musharraf expressed his deep concern over the anti-armed forces propaganda in the national media. He detailed the misperceptions created by the negative reporting. President Musharraf should not get unduly perturbed on this trend. It is the natural and logical outcome of overexposure of the armed forces in the public affairs. Never before in the history of Pakistan the military personnel have occupied so many public offices. Its omnipresence in every sphere of public life and its omniscient attitude has not endeared it to the people. It has replaced the bureaucrat as the perennial target of public scorn. It has forgotten the old adage that familiarity breeds contempt. It is now the armed forces personnel who run the public utilities, supervise the sports, regulate the utility tariffs, and catch the thieves under NAB, head the postal department, the universities and research institutes. With a public exposure of this magnitude the criticism would not only continue to flow but become intense too.

President Musharraf assured his audience of newsmen that every penny of the defence budget is spent with great care and there are several tiers of checks on all spending. True, that defence budget is only 17 percent of the federal budget and yet at the GDP ratio of 6 percent it is nearly the highest in the world. Despite all the checks Admiral Mansoorul Haq could manage a hefty commission on the deal of Augusta submarines. It was a newspaper of Karachi that exposed the Admiral and not some vigilant committee of the government. The defence budget and spending cannot attain full transparency until it was opened to the
public debate. .....

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#120 by sigalph235

[``they can certainly smell the blood of Mohajirs spilt in Karachi everyday by the agencies since the mid-`80s.``]

First we had Indians from the cow belt and Kerala worrying about Pakistani Punjabis, and now we have Bengladeshis showing concern for Mohajirs, I guess next we`ll have Zulus worried about Pathans and finally Eskimos feeling the pain of Saraikis.

To the ``well`` meaning Keralites and Bangladeshis and Zulus and Eskimos, I`d say take your sympathy and....... y`know.

Tariq Aqil:

Although we, as a nation, are fully competent to do the same, the following still is only a remote possibility in Pakistan:

http://www.hindu.com/2003/11/22/stories/2003112206250100.htm

and

http://www.hindu.com/2003/11/23/stories/2003112306750100.htm

While our Poorkhas may be held accountable before the Creator and the Sustainer for EP episode, we must thank HIM for not letting us follow in some of the formers` mucky footsteps.

Ras Sahib

Quite a coincidence about St Joseph`s. Our old house was ten minute walk from the school and our new one is about fifteen. And my mother is in her last year teaching there.

Ferozek re Admiral SM Ahsan

Absolutely right on the admiral; Tikka Khan was brought in to put the two hats of two people absolutely opposite to him (Yaqub and Ahsan). Does Ahsan`s uprightness have something to do with the fact that he was ADC to the Quaid-e-Azam? On a more general note, with no offence intended to army/PAF wallahs and their progeny, is there some truth to the fact PN officers are more likely to be office&gentlemen than the other two branches(Adm. Masroor is an exception perhaps?)? If so, why?

It is a nice omen that we as a nation have started talking about even the darker days of our chequered history. And by any standard, East Pakistan episode is indeed the gloomiest chapter of our past. Without embroiling myself in blame apportioning game I would like to add a couple of thoughts:

1) Exact number of deaths is of secondary importance. Even few hundred deaths, let alone few million casualties, are few hundred too many. Discussing these digits back and forth is a gross affront to victims (Bengalis and non-Bengalis alike) and their next of kin. My humble suggestion is that it would suffice to say that a huge number of Pakistanis, without précising it further, lost their lives.

2) General public, in the Western wing, at the most, is liable to only a fraction of responsibility. Because, at that time at least 75% were illiterates; 50 % were without electricity; 80 % absolutely lacked access to media, even less independent channels (Pakistan got its first TV station in 1969). Most of them were almost totally ignorant of basic most data of the Eastern wing what to talk about intricate political details. In short, generally no political awareness at all and the whole nation was in a sense thoroughly brainwashed with weird interpretations of historic proceedings. Dear friends, therefore, under the given circumstances, it is grossly unfair to blame ordinary citizens on the street for their indifference and silence.

3) It is a matter of utmost shame and disgust for us as a nation that even after 30 years more than 300000 Pakistanis are still stranded in Bangladesh. Without resolving this issue as per the aspirations of Biharis stuck in Bangladesh, we from Western Pakistan cannot claim to have learned anything at all. The tragedy of East Pakistan will remain an open wound till the resolving of this issue in a decent manner.

A Pakistani from Punjab, who had yet to start walking when East Pakistanis parted their way.

#131 by jay on November 22, 2003 6:31pm PT
ahmadmadani 126,

I completely agree with you, what pakistan lacks is culture

#131 Jay: You are distorting me. I never said we Pakistanis are devoid of Culture.

I was saying about average Punjabi and average Bengali both Muslims as a group. As groupwise bengalis are more cultured people than Punjabis as a group . I consider agriculture as also integral part of culture and Punjab is advanced in agriculture. Please do not pick some thing and distort.
Good luck everybody.

Romair (aka Bull of Chakwal),

Since you decline to provide training camp statistics from POK, here are my ballpark figures.

Indian intelligence estimates around 120 terrorist training camps in POK. If we consider a low figure of 20 jihadis trained per month per camp...that works out to be 2400 jihadis per month.

What did you say...only 100 or so pakistanis in kashmir (hahaha)!


Welcome to chowk...poetry of Bulle Shah...and high-octane gas from Bull `e Chaak!