Founding Mothers

Re: Mantolives....

In my reply I have applauded you intent which I re-iterate here as well. I am neither an authority nor a scholar of history - and I do grudgingly admire that you take the time and the effort to write on the chowk - even though I feel that there are strong undercurrents of your ideological mindset often presented as fact.....



But if you wish your articles to be read - make sure that you research them well - or at least adequately - otherwise it puts your credibility at risk...... I have been on the chowk for a very long time - and must admit that you have become more pragmatic than in the past......

Nonethless - please dont present opinions as fact - Tell history as it was - not as you wanted it to be - which is what you have done in this article - and it does not help your journalistic credibilty any.......

On a seperate note - stinging criticism is an occupation hazard for a writer -( whether deserved or not) so develop a thick skin and get used to it.....

I meant ... Fazl-e- Hussain

temporal, Rafay,

There is absolutely no historical evidence to suggest that... in 1906 ... the Indian National congress was not talking about land reforms or anything... its main aim was to attain dominion self government... perhaps you are confusing the name with the Unionist Party which was founded with that express purpose in 1920s : to protect the interests of the feudals. The leading light of the Unionists was Sir Fazle Hassan.

League infact in 1913 had reinvented itself from a British loyalist party (in the tradition of Sir Syed) to a party asking Dominion self government ... after it was persuaded by Jinnah , who at the time was a Congressman himself. This led to the famous Lucknow Pact 1916 ... also known as Tilak Jinnah pact, and Nehru-Jinnah Pact.

-YLH

Rafay alam,

One of the people who took a stance against the resolution was that woman hating Wali Khan... yes the same Wali Khan.. who Indians like Jay hold to be the most secular progressive politician of Pakistan... the son of Badshah Khan, aka frontier Gandhi, and the championof Pushtun rights..

So much for the accusations against the so called `tntists`...

Jay,

Are you suggesting India doesn`t have its share of raped, abused, exploited, and murdered women... This is precisely why you are a disgusting human being... I will tell you why:

You are almost glad what happened to those women ... it gives you a chance to feel good about your otherwise pathetic miserable life. Everything is a tool for you in your game of one upmanship... to win at that game you love to play : Paki Bashing... You are glad Samia Sarwar died. Everytime a Pakistani woman succumbs.. you get aother chance to bash the hell out of Pakistan which is your ultimate objective.

If you really cared about the plight of women... you would start with the women o f your own country.... the truth is that India is no bed of roses for women either... but those poor women who die in India are not worth your time... are they? Shame on you Jaya prakash... shame on you... you probably are a serial killer rapist yourself...

-YLH

Re Jay No. 9

I must disagree with some of your facts. In the Samia Sarwar case, Asma Jehangir was not arrested. In fact, Samia Sarwar`s murder took place in the next room, in Hina Jilani`s office. Asma`s connection with the matter came later, in the form of protests and a case filed on Samia Sarwar`s behalf in the anti-terrorist court. She was not arrested in relation to the offence. If memory serves me correctly (I was in the AGHS office that very morning), Asam was not in office that day (but I may be wrong).

There was a resolution (not a Bill) in the Senate (not the Parliament) condemning honor killings. I think Senator Iqbal Haider was the brains behind the resolution. Since it was a resolution in the Senate, it did not matter that it pass or not (it was not a Bill, and would not become a law). It did, however, matter how many people voted for it. Less than two dozen did. Senator Javed Iqbal - who had favored the resolution at first - did not vote. If memory serves me correct, there were more abstentions from the vote than there was opposition to it.

I think you are confusing the Samia Sarwar case with the Uzma Waheed case (which was about two or three years earlier). In that case, the question was whether an adult woman could marry without the consent of her guardian. The High Court, in a narrow 2:1 decision said that she could. The matter is now before the Supreme Court of Pakistan, and is being heard by, if my memory serves me well (it`s been a bit of a slow day today), Munir A. Sheikh, Karamat Nazir Bhandari (both excellent judges with impeccable reputations) and another judge.

In the Uzma Waheed case, Asma was made a party to the alleged kidnapping of Uzma. This was an allegation framed against Asma by Uzma`s father, who had lodged a criminal case against Asma for enticing her daughter to Dastak, the women`s shelter run by Asma`s law firm.

Thought I would clear that up.

Rafay Alam

digression:

lists, lists and more lists...so yasser mentioned a few...and syed ahmed added to that list...fine

On Pakistani Women

...but what is amusing and more than slightly troubling...ok that is an under-statement....what is really troubling is the male desi attitude...particularly muslim desi attitude toward women...no, no will not bring islam into question...it is not islam...and i count myself in this criticism...we are men...read men in letters that cover the sky...dwarfing heaven!....we are men...utterly disregarding women folk from our life ...except when we want to court or bed them...forgetting that we owe our very existence to having been nurtured in a womb...not caring...in fact dissing all save a few...and i will question that too ...mother-wife-sister…and an odd friend or two…harsh words, I admit….but I will be honest…out there…in life…we show a greater propensity to love dogs and cats than women around…I mean this in the sense of owing due respect…giving them equal rights…

…i can almost sense a friend saying “laikin yaar hum tO mardoN ki bhee respect nahiN kartay haiN”…

…which is or maybe true also…but am more concerned for the respect to women…because it shows up in our attitudes elsewhere… wish i could show a society or nation where respect for women is exemplary…i know, as human beings we have a long way to go to afford them equal respect, if not equal ‘pay’…but that is another issue…

…but…that inability should not take anything from the fact that we do not respect women….and treat them as someone just marginally above the cats and dogs on our totem poles…and as I hinted earlier…I believe this starts off a process in life where we become clannish, upholders of division in society based on clan, property, profession…thus further alienating others (including men) in our society…

…there is hope…yes there always is…this new breed of women that is coming up…they are more educated and aware of the trauma faced by women…they are vocal…and they are in the workforce…money is power…when money speaks, more men listen…as they gain ascendancy in work, in other spheres of everyday life they will be heard more and more…they will not be pushed around with the same ease their mothers and grand mothers were pushed around…

…one thing those who understand and care should do without delay is to help these ladies in any way possible…so that some pain in this struggle…onslaught really ..can be shared…so that they can be empowered….so that they know they are not alone…and together with them…we can someday do our mothers proud…

rafay:

i cannot point out the source material from here but from memory what i recall of the opening lines of the founding resolution of AIML can be quite telling...``...we the jagirdars, tumandars, nawabs....!``

rgds,

t

YLH,

Like Syed Ahmad (posts # 5 and 6), I too applaud your effort. However, the sentences or two you have used to describe each of these Pakistani heroines does not do justice to them at all. For example, I know nothing more or less of Fatima Begum than when I woke up this morning. The short paragraph vignettes are more like the stuff we were forced to read in our Pak-Studies classes. Telling one someone is brilliant and expecting them to take your word for it is hardly scholarship. It`s propaganda.

On another note: I came across some research by Dr. Mubarik Ali, a historian. His theory is that when Muslim fuedals in Northern India realized that the All India Congress was planning wholescale land reforms, they opted to create their own party, the All India Muslim League. Have you heard of such a notion? If so, could you point me to some material.

Regards,
Rafay Alam

Interesting article. Specially when combined with the list provided by Syed Ahmad.

I think the true strength of women in a society is recongnized, if everyday women can rise to distinction. Were there any everyday women, i.e. not related to powerful men, who rose to high levels in the Pakistan movement?

I think the current 1/3rd representation of women in local councils should result in a lot of women, eventually, making some kind of a name for themselves in the political arena.

Yasser,

A sweet effort!

SyedAhmed:

[All the women you mentioned stood on the shoulders of their fathers or brothers or Husbands… including the ones you listed .,….]

This was the punch line. Good Point.

Samia Sarwar,

Yet once again, YLH has dug up the past, to popint to its irreleveance in the pakistan of today. He has named a few who have been long forgotten in the social settings of pakistan. More than any one else, one has to remeber the contribution of samia sarwar, the one killed in the office of asma jihangir, in front of so mant witnesses. Asma was arrested for misleading the young womans mind while no charge was laid against the killers.
A resolution condemning the killing was rejected by 75 percent majority of a doccratically elected parliment headed by nawaz sharif.
No YLH dares to writte about her. The first act of mushy, with in 100 days of coming to power was to invite the killer father to reassure that nothing will be done to him.
Samia sarwar gets no mention by any pakistanis, ylh cannot remeber her name and her contribution to the plight of women by her own sacrifice. YLH, samia sarwar died because she wanted to get awat from a husban twice her age. YLH, shed a tear for her, do not leve that task for kafirs like me. Education has to make an impact, should give you an ability to read beyond what jinnah spoke, it involves a social responsibility to change, not to white wash the pathetic history.
If all these women whome you talk about had any impact on pak society how come it is so barbaric today.
Culture and social values die very slowly, it cannot die in 50 years, and what is at present in pakistan is a proof that pakistan never had what you are writing about. Pakistan is a darwenian creation, it is an outcome of a natural selection process of people who believed in TNT.
YLH, please include samia sarwar in your list

Syed Ahmed,

I agree ... my research is juvenile and inaccurate ... I waited for so long that a great scholar like you would write about these women... but it seems like you scholars were never interested until ofcourse its about pulling someone down, which like every good pakistani journalist (especially an expat)... you too have a penchant for.

indeed `the jawbone of an ass is as lethal as it was when Daved slay goliath.`


Sigalph,

Thanks for that touching post. I hope your optimism is true. On My good days I feel that.

Dost Mittar,

You are right... the two women I will point out are... my mother Dr. Durre Shahwar Hamdani who has served this Republic diligently for 28 years as a doctor... and my wife to be .... the brilliant Ms. Aisha Sarwari ... who has made a name for herself as a writer and as a representative of Pakistan... and who is the original inspiration for this article.

Chowk is full of such women .... Sobia, Semipreciousme, Saminahsa, Bina Shah, Zahraj, etc And ofcourse Saima Shah.... the brilliant chowk editor.

Pakistan has hope.


temporal, Rozaiba,


Agreed... time to reclaim what we lost.

-YLH

“ A jaw bone of an ass is as lethal today as it was when David Slay Goliath”…..

Although I applaud Mr hamdani’s intentions - His research is both juvenile and Inaccurate

The History of the Muslim women’s of the subcontinent has always been in the context of the husband, brother or father - otherwise in the early twentieth century ( Victorian mores were often practiced and an independent women was more than likely to be plying her avocation ) ……

Consequently the following statement is ridiculous

“These women are those whose contributions to the cause of Pakistan stood independent of their spouses, brothers or fathers. Therefore Fatima Jinnah, Raana Liaqat Ali, Viqarrunnisa Noon, and Begum Abida Sultan are not amongst them, despite the fact that they too have every right to be included in the founding mothers.”

There is nothing thing that riles me more than the ignorant ( NOTE Ignorant) distortion of history. A simple research of middle school history textbooks would have yielded more accurate information….


All the women you mentioned stood on the shoulders of their fathers or brothers or Husbands… including the ones you listed .,….

The leaders of the Women’s movement both the Mohatrama Fatima Jinnah And Begum Rana Liaquat Ali Khan are probably the most prominent – whom you choose to ignore – Their contributions are substantially more than the other leaders you chose to highlight- independently in their own right .....

Abadi Begum: Secondly the history of the Pakistan women’s movement begins with “BI AMMA” –- mother of both Mohd Ali And Shaukat Ali Jauhar….( which any 3rd grade Pak history textbook will attest to)…..

Lady Sugra Hidayatullah - IS not an unknown – she was one of the more prominent leaders of the Sindh Muslim League ( also wife of Ghulam Hussain Hidyatullah) – first Governor of Sindh.

Lady Nusrat Haroon ( not Nusrat Khanum) : ( widow of Sir Abdullah Haroon) was a tour de force in the Pakistan Muslim league – She was the First President of the Women’s League – Her prominence was so great that even MOhtarma Fatima Jinnah used to defer to her …. ( and mother to the befuddling Yusuf and Mahmood Haroon)

Begum Wali Mohammed effendi ( I think daughter of Hasan Ali Effendi )was also a p[rominet league leader – I believe she is a maternal grandmother to the Pakistani supreme Khota _ ASif Zardari….

Dr. Shaista Ikramullah – was wife of of Ikrammullah ( First foreign secretary of Pakistan) – sister of Husain Shaheed Suhrawrdy ( first CM Bengal) , niece of Ghullam Hussain Hidayatullah ( Chief Justice of India and later Vice Presidcent of India – She was the first Muslim Phd in the subcontinent and the first lady to be represented in the constituent Assembly of Pakistan

Begum Jahanara Shahnawaz – was also joined by her Sister Geta Ara Shahnawaz and brother Basheer Ahmed – all being the children of MIan Shafi…

Begum Salma Tassaduque Hussain: was also the wife of a prominent Muslim Leaguer Mian Tassadaque Hussain. She was also teh convener of teh ALL Indian Muslim Girls conferences...

Begum Viqar unnisa Noon - ( wife of Feroz Khan noon – PM of Pakistan) was actually a German/Austrian (??) who was actively involved in the league activities…….


Princess ( not Begum) Abida Hussain – daughter of the Nawab of Bhopal ( one of the financiers of the League and a protégé of Jinnah) was activist in her own right – I believe she was separated from her Husband – held several prominent ambassadorial positions in the Foreign service – Also the mother of Shehryar Khan later Foreign secretary of Pakistan…..


Other prominent people included Fatima Shaikh, Begum nawab Mohd Ismail, Begum Hussain Ara khan, Begum Iqbal Hussain, Begum Mohd Ali Jauhar, and Noorus saba Begum ( an Aunt of Gen Musharraf) ...

Begum rana Liaquat Ali Khan was certainly one the two most prominent women’s personalities in Pakistan ( the other being Fatima Jinnah) – founder of APWA, founder of ALL India Women’s Muslim league Ambassador, Governor and certainly worthy of being buried in the Masoleum of the Quaid

And of Course Mohtrama Fatima Jinnah – despite her temperament for which takes a lot of flak – deserves the title of Madre Millat for service above and beyond the call of duty in ventures too numerous to mention…….

“ A jaw bone of an ass is as lethal today as it was when David Slay Goliath”…..

Although I applaud Mr hamdani’s intentions - His research is both juvenile and Inaccurate

The History of the Muslim women’s of the subcontinent has always been in the context of the husband, brother or father - otherwise in the early twentieth century ( Victorian mores were often practiced and an independent women was more than likely to be plying her avocation ) ……

Consequently the following statement is ridiculous

“These women are those whose contributions to the cause of Pakistan stood independent of their spouses, brothers or fathers. Therefore Fatima Jinnah, Raana Liaqat Ali, Viqarrunnisa Noon, and Begum Abida Sultan are not amongst them, despite the fact that they too have every right to be included in the founding mothers.”

There is nothing thing that riles me more than the ignorant ( NOTE Ignorant) distortion of history. A simple research of middle school history textbooks would have yielded more accurate information….


All the women you mentioned stood on the shoulders of their fathers or brothers or Husbands… including the ones you listed .,….

The leaders of the Women’s movement both the Mohatrama Fatima Jinnah And Begum Rana Liaquat Ali Khan are probably the most prominent – whom you choose to ignore – Their contributions are substantially more than the other leaders you chose to highlight- independently in their own right .....

Abadi Begum: Secondly the history of the Pakistan women’s movement begins with “BI AMMA” –- mother of both Mohd Ali And Shaukat Ali Jauhar….( which any 3rd grade Pak history textbook will attest to)…..

Lady Sugra Hidayatullah - IS not an unknown – she was one of the more prominent leaders of the Sindh Muslim League ( also wife of Ghulam Hussain Hidyatullah) – first Governor of Sindh.

Lady Nusrat Haroon ( not Nusrat Khanum) : ( widow of Sir Abdullah Haroon) was a tour de force in the Pakistan Muslim league – She was the First President of the Women’s League – Her prominence was so great that even MOhtarma Fatima Jinnah used to defer to her …. ( and mother to the befuddling Yusuf and Mahmood Haroon)

Begum Wali Mohammed effendi ( I think daughter of Hasan Ali Effendi )was also a p[rominet league leader – I believe she is a maternal grandmother to the Pakistani supreme Khota _ ASif Zardari….

Dr. Shaista Ikramullah – was wife of of Ikrammullah ( First foreign secretary of Pakistan) – sister of Husain Shaheed Suhrawrdy ( first CM Bengal) , niece of Ghullam Hussain Hidayatullah ( Chief Justice of India and later Vice Presidcent of India – She was the first Muslim Phd in the subcontinent and the first lady to be represented in the constituent Assembly of Pakistan

Begum Jahanara Shahnawaz – was also joined by her Sister Geta Ara Shahnawaz and brother Basheer Ahmed – all being the children of MIan Shafi…

Begum Salma Tassaduque Hussain: was also the wife of a prominent Muslim Leaguer Mian Tassadaque Hussain. She was also teh convener of teh ALL Indian Muslim Girls conferences...

Begum Viqar unnisa Noon - ( wife of Feroz Khan noon – PM of Pakistan) was actually a German/Austrian (??) who was actively involved in the league activities…….


Princess ( not Begum) Abida Hussain – daughter of the Nawab of Bhopal ( one of the financiers of the League and a protégé of Jinnah) was activist in her own right – I believe she was separated from her Husband – held several prominent ambassadorial positions in the Foreign service – Also the mother of Shehryar Khan later Foreign secretary of Pakistan…..


Other prominent people included Fatima Shaikh, Begum nawab Mohd Ismail, Begum Hussain Ara khan, Begum Iqbal Hussain, Begum Mohd Ali Jauhar, and Noorus saba Begum ( an Aunt of Gen Musharraf) ...

Begum rana Liaquat Ali Khan was certainly one the two most prominent women’s personalities in Pakistan ( the other being Fatima Jinnah) – founder of APWA, founder of ALL India Women’s Muslim league Ambassador, Governor and certainly worthy of being buried in the Masoleum of the Quaid

And of Course Mohtrama Fatima Jinnah – despite her temperament for which takes a lot of flak – deserves the title of Madre Millat for service above and beyond the call of duty in ventures too numerous to mention…….

Brilliant encapsulation. These women put the fear of God into the hearts of the wicked and perhaps that`s why in subsequent years the tyrants feared women more than anything else. Her and her husband`s stints in power aside, the next generation did see a young, brave Benazir Bhutto taking on the most brutal dictator in Pakistani history. Now the torch has been passed to another small set of courageous women including the indomitable Sherry Rehman, MNA.

Things will get better my friend. May be not tomorrow or in a decade or perhaps even in our lifetimes. But thanks to you and many like you, Pakistan will someday surely redeem the pledge her Great Founder made to the future. Generals and mullahs come and go and tinpots like Raja Zafar and Hashmi fall on their own treacherous daggers, but the Quaid-e-Azam is eternal.

Pakistan`s best days are yet to come.