Banning Fashion Shows

re: fashion scene in Pakistan
No Art or culture can survive for long if it does not have the popular backing of the middle class. A case in point would be the classical dance Bharatanatyam in South India. At one time considered distasteful, this dance was revived and made popular by the likes of Rukmini Arundale.
Fashion scene in India today is similarly popular among the middle class and there is no stigma attached to it. In the following article, the author argues that Fashion scene in Pakistan does not have a popular support if its masses and it is unlikely to survive for long with continued onslaught by mullahs and ban imposed by the govt:
http://www.thefridaytimes.com/
Sridhar

#78 by dost-mittar
//Hussain has great reverence for hindu gods, goddesses and traditions even though this is not permitted by his religion... The ransacking of his house was nothing more than a symbol of the hindu me-too-fundamentalism//

I am on Hussain`s side on this one. He can paint whatever he wants - NO shiv sena jacka!!** has NO rights to any violence against him or anybody supporting him.

But question that many others asked at that time, is still valid: Would Mr Hussain ever paint a naked(or clothed) Prophet Muhammad - or say, a caricature of the mecca mosque? He must be having great reverence for Muhammad and Mecca, too. If he did - what would be the muslims reaction?

Or alternately - let`s say a famous Hindu/Christian painter, who has great reverence for islam, paints a naked Muhammad. What would happen to him? Who would defend him and who would brand him as anti-muslim ?

#77 by mumbaikar

Well let us assume the worst case. That Hussain wanted to depict the Goddess naked because he wanted to make a revered icon a sex object. Just for one moment.

Now ask yourself that if someone had done something identical in the US on Christ. Its been done - Corpus Christi is a play by Terrence McNally that depicts Christ as a homo-sexual. His house wasnt ransacked, he wasnt roughed up and nor were his actors stoned. TRue, some catholic leaders took umbrage and denounced him.

But the lesson here is that both sides had a right to do what they wanted and the law of the land helped protect that right. Unfortunately I can`t say the same for mumbai today - not after what the Sena perpetrated.

And its not like the Sena are high connoiseurs of art and understand everything MFH paints. Also I pity those Hindus who are so insecure in their belief that some paint on a paper should offend deeply enough to justify goodagiri.

mumbaikar:
``Painting Goddess Saraswati naked was really in bad taste by Maqbool Fida Hussain Pandharpurkar.``
I do not know whether or not it was in bad taste, but I do know that it had existed for 20 years without anyone raising an eyebrow over it and also that Hussain has great reverence for hindu gods, goddesses and traditions even though this is not permitted by his religion. The ransacking of his house was nothing more than a symbol of the hindu me-too-fundamentalism and the growing intolerance in that most tolerant of religions.

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Foundations of honour killing,

For the first time on chowk, there is some truth coming out, there is now an acceptance that honour killing is not a tribal custom, it has nothing to do with corruption, it is all and simply about the pak legal system.

One can use all kinds of archich arabic words of diyat and what not, the fact that it is flourishing in pakistan and is on the increase is simply because of the wider acceptance of the idea of jihad. The most educated and the sofisticated pakistanis one sees on the chowk are unanimous in the idea that non-innocents are to be killed, the central premise of jihad. Samia sarwar is the most visible case where her mother a gyneacologist, and father a wealthy business man from lahore subscribed and executed the jihadic act.

It is time that the pakistanis, at least make a move, to declare and say that let us leave this all to the state, let the state go through a process and then kill the non-innocent, let the individuals refrain from this. That will be too hard, that will be accepting that jihad is not killing of kafirs, who are by definition non-innocent.

Take it from me, the homoeectus pakistanicus, the foundation of honou killing is jihad. Pakistans problem is not jihadists, it is jihad itself.

Re Manto 61

Absolutely correct. Lest Harimau compare the GGs of Pakistan and India, the Quaid-e-Azam chose to exercise the powers temporarily conferred on a GG in the 8th Schedule of the Indian Independence Act, something Lord Mountbatten chose not to do.

#70 by PM
//...try to deal with the disobedient wife with patience and reasonableness, and (in 4:34) only beat her `lightly` and only as a last resort... //

``Last resort`` - who decides this? the man himself - isn`t it? very nice. And who defines ``lightly``? Who is going enforce these rules - what happens if the husband oversteps?

But never mind. This is exactly what I was trying to point out - you are the typical of apologists - you are defending the book yet again, instead of condemning the totally unacceptable things it prescribes.

//..Still enough to offend twentyfirst-century sensibilites...//
ANother favourite excuse. Such prescriptions in Koran were evil then and they are evil now. No two ways about it.

mumbaikar #63

Before we jeer at the Pakistanis, let us not forget what happened in Mumbai to MF Hussain`s exhibits. Again it was the mighty Shiv Sena.

Atleast the Pakistanis can say that they dont have a choice. We can only plead laziness and inaction.

I wonder if Asif Naqshbandi would care to comment on the article posted in #63. after all, it`s all very well to hold controversial philosophical positions but not carry out their practical imperatives. When the latter is done, it sometimes lends a whole new dimension, or meaning even, to that position.

dost-mittarji:
My knowledge of the the Qisas and Diyat laws is sketchy, so I will not claim cartainty by any means... When first introduced back in the 80`s, the compensation for a death was fixed at about Rs. 2.5 lakh (or was that a minumum?). I do recall being informed that it was half for member of a religious minoirty, though, once again, I would caution against taking this as gospel truth.

Will try and google it out later...

re. mohar11 #69:
While I think that strict adherenec to the book does raise problems, you should bear in mind that in the particular case (re 4:34 and wife-beating), the precdeding verses exhort the husband to try to deal with the disobedient wife with patience and reasonableness, and (in 4:34) only beat her `lightly` and only as a last resort. Still enough to offend twentyfirst-century sensibilites, i admit, but hardly the wife-battering blind prescription that many beleive it to be.

#65 by dost-mittar
excerpts :
//..Nevertheless, the Koran itself permits men to beat their wives (Chapter 4, Verse 34), and the sharia-inspired penal codes of most Muslim countries give the benefit of the doubt to a man who kills his wife, ......... This barbaric practice, which has not been seen in European countries in well over a century, is making an unsavory return within the Old Continent`s Muslim communities. ........ Muslims in Europe account for the vast majority of those living under the poverty line, and Muslim neighborhoods are the poorest areas in nearly every European city.
//

The ``educated`` and living-in-west muslims who keep defending koran ad nauseam, should take note : recognize the source of all that is wrong with muslims these days. Backwardness of muslim communities is mainly because they have not been able to break the shackle of the ``holy`` book.

re. article Shariah in the Old Continent #65
The incidents reported are saddening, but would not be cause for alarm without some sort of figures. Crimes of passion are committed all the time; these ones of misplaced `honor` could be overlooked if they are mumerically equivalent-- that is, some amount of madness is going to take palce in any society-- that`s almsot a given.

What prompted me to ask for figures, and notice that none were provided in the article itself, was the stated credentials of the author.

Perhaps I should take back my last comment, having read this passage:

``In Germany, Milli Gorus, a militant Turkish Islamic organization with more than 200,000 members, is accused by German intelligence of promoting Islamic law among Turkish immigrants in Europe. The August 2001 issue of Milli Gorus`s official publication, Milli Gazete, featured an article stating that ``A religious Muslim is also at the same time an advocate for sharia. The state, the media, and the courts have no rights to interfere. The allegiance of a Muslim to sharia cannot be condemned or questioned.``

!!!

## kaurasach #64
How do you call the brain washing by businesses and psychological manipulation of undeveloped minds individuality.
##

First of all, I don`t see how Valentine`s Day is compromising individuality. As far as undeveloped minds are concerned, who asked these people to be dumb in the first place. If you think big corporations are exploiting people, perhaps it is time to question everything. Not just valentine`s Day. Maybe even Holi or Diwali. Every major company is selling stuff we don`t need. Why is that ok ? You can`t protect anything or anyone forever. If its dying, its probably because it outran its utility. Just as well.

And if V Day is such a passing fad, why worry about it. It will die a natural death if people choose to. If it is an adoption from a foreign culture, then it is individual choice. I cant imagine being in college and not having rose day to look forward to. We like what we like. If companies are benefitting from this, wheres the problem?

Sheep mentality will persist in sheep. My point is that what the Sena is trying to do is treat the symptom and not the problem. Maybe if youngsters thought it cooler to celebrate Gandhi Jayanti instead of V Day, they would. But thats not for the Sena or any of the ``save our culture`` types to decide for the rest though. So let me go to my nightclub, smooch my girlfriend in public and watch my FTV. I am comfortable in my Indianness and I dont need a Sena certification for that.